Nerf scouts

[LeonBraun]

Your point? It's annoying as hell on Gunships, as well.

 

The point is, that a nerf to Bypass is not directly a nerf to Scouts. It's a nerf to anyone who uses the companion with that active ability. That said, it seems much of the GSF community wouldn't mind seeing a nerf to this ability.

[Helig]

The point is, that a nerf to Bypass is not directly a nerf to Scouts. It's a nerf to anyone who uses the companion with that active ability. That said, it seems much of the GSF community wouldn't mind seeing a nerf to this ability.

The most complaints about scouts are related to their burst firepower, which *heavily* involves stacking Bypass and Overcharge. Most complaints about Gunships are about 1-shots which involve Bypass. 2 birds, 1 stone (And yes, it's a 2g1c reference).

 

However, I also wouldn't mind Overcharge toned down a bit.

[mr_sim]

it seems much of the GSF community wouldn't mind seeing a nerf to this ability.

 

I don't know what a Midnight Sunrise is but is nice to see your seeing the light finally. Really dude the point always was how the average player would respond to scout uber burst. You have 400+ matches but some playes will never see that many, certainly I've never ground pvped that much and I've been around since just before 1.2. Only 20% of my guild will touch GSF more then a few times and some of them need to be pressured to que up too. If players aren't comfortable then the game fails, We won't loss players if the nerf happens scouts are just fine without it, this nerf will not break the class but might just fix the game.

[LeonBraun]

I don't know what a Midnight Sunrise is but is nice to see your seeing the light finally. Really dude the point always was how the average player would respond to scout uber burst. You have 400+ matches but some playes will never see that many, certainly I've never ground pvped that much and I've been around since just before 1.2. Only 20% of my guild will touch GSF more then a few times and some of them need to be pressured to que up too. If players aren't comfortable then the game fails, We won't loss players if the nerf happens scouts are just fine without it, this nerf will not break the class but might just fix the game.

 

Not sure where the hostility is coming from there, but I've never been a chest beater about bypass. I never even tried out the ability myself until a couple days ago.

 

The whole point of the burst of the Scout is for the purpose of capping satellites. This burst works well on stationary targets such a turrets, which is the primary role of the Scout. Where people have noted the issue with Scouts here is that they are also able to burst down stationary or unsuspecting fighters. The easiest defence to this is not to be a stationary target for the Scout.

 

Once the Scout pops their CD's they have mere seconds and then they are paper thin for minutes, which is when they are most vulnerable. The Scouts have a well defined role, which is objective based, getting in and out quick that clearly some seem to be missing.

[LeonBraun]

Here it is taken from another post... Instead of re-rwriting it over again...

 

The role of a Scout is clear. It's to get in and out quick, that's why the burst damage is there. They don't have the sustained DPS of a Striker. Once they blow their CD's they are vulnerable for several minutes.

 

The whole point of a Scout is to race in and cap satellites, with the support and punch of a Striker. The Scout and Striker help each other out this way. The Striker is a more rounded fighter and has much greater durability and sustained DPS compared to the Scout.

 

Scouts are objective fighters, meant to distract, lure fighters, and cap satellites. Strikers are meant to do the heavy sustained DPS and much of the fighter killing. Any Scout looking to top kill charts is not fulfilling their role. Scouts should be topping turret kills and objective numbers.

[Resipsal]

It's actually a misconception that the scouts out turn the striker they out climb it and out run it but because the striker can out break the scout it can in fact out turn it.

 

I've not heard this before. Can you elaborate?

[mr_sim]

I like to mess with GMs that advertise they are GMs it takes a certain kind of person to go out of their way to say they are the boss, I don't play as nice with that. My GM is the most humble guy I've met in the game. no worries man you do things your way if it works, and I'm not on The Harbinger so universes won't collide where it counts.

 

Actually I wanted you to see I was paying attention to your points.

[mr_sim]

I've not heard this before. Can you elaborate?

 

ok the pilots mantra is "Speed is Life"

 

in WWII the Japanese Zero fighter had no armor and pee shooters for machine guns, It is hailed today as an amazing fighter because it did survive so many battles because it had speed.

 

In WW! the german fighters(think Red Baron) could out climb and out turn the British and French, the westerners won the air war because they had speed. note both nations fighters had no armor.

 

Maneuverability is not turning rather it's the ability to move more then your target. think of it like this a turret has no maneuverability but it has impressive turn rate. When a Striker puts the breaks on it can do so at a higher rate then the scout can, the striker in essence becomes a slow moving turret. note the consequence however "Speed is Life" and the striker just sold off it's speed for a line on target.

[LeonBraun]

I like to mess with GMs that advertise they are GMs it takes a certain kind of person to go out of their way to say they are the boss, I don't play as nice with that. My GM is the most humble guy I've met in the game. no worries man you do things your way if it works, and I'm not on The Harbinger so universes won't collide where it counts.

 

Actually I wanted you to see I was paying attention to your points.

 

First of all, you'll note in my Sig, I've noted myself as a guild "leader", not a guild "master" as I have a very specific purpose for doing so. I am no one's master, but it does take a certain type of person to take on a caring leadership role and the responsibility of a guild leader in a game like this. I'm passionate for the communities in these types of games and always strive to make them better, which is why I post so vigorously both positively and in also in critiquing aspects of these games.

 

When I see things that need change for the better, I voice that. When things work, I like to give credit where it is due as well. GSF has been a great addition so far to SWTOR. It may not be 100% perfect quite yet... But it's pretty darned decent right now.

Edited December 29, 2013 by LeonBraun

[Resipsal]

When a Striker puts the breaks on it can do so at a higher rate then the scout can

 

I've never heard this before. There is no stat given for acceleration or deceleration, so I assumed that all ships did them at equal rates. If what you say is true, however, that makes another interesting difference between the various classes of ship.

[mr_sim]

I've noted myself as a guild "leader", not a guild "master" as I have a very specific purpose for doing so. I am no one's master

 

That kind of person right there. Like i said I don't mix well with.but there is room for both of us none the less. Trust me nothing worse then a bitter unguilded player who's essentially "lost" to the true meaning of the game because they don't have community.

 

GM is a generic name, Regardless of your chosen title the client side abilities remain the same and are simply referred to by the definition Guildmaster, Take it up with Bioware I'm using acceptable parlance only.

 

but now we are spiraling off topic and I will respond to this tangent no more. though by all means have the last word if you'd like(not being sarcastic).

[Nocher]

As for the bomber comment. Bioware has sort of suggested a pecking order.

 

scouts kill fighters(mainly strikers and other scouts)

strikers kill turrets and other armored targets

GS well they kill what they can but are the armored targets that strikers kill.

Bombers will likely also be armored targets and tough customers up close, just what strikers are meant for.

 

However, in practice the pecking order seems to be

 

Scouts to kill stationary targets and take open points (Bad gunships/turrets)

Strikers to kill scouts and satellite humpers

GS to kill anything that doest see them, as above

[mr_sim]

I've never heard this before. There is no stat given for acceleration or deceleration, so I assumed that all ships did them at equal rates. If what you say is true, however, that makes another interesting difference between the various classes of ship.

 

it's not so much acceleration, Don't forget we are using Super Physics, where cutting power causes a vehicle to slow down. No the striker and GS have a lower minimum speed then the scout, out braking is not the best term but not completely inaccurate either. Acceleration is an almost moot concept in GSF, fighters actually travel at constant speed mostly with acceleration taking no more then 2-3 seconds.

 

Remember the Rule "speed is life" scouts don't have the armor/shields to gamble with slow speeds. Also there short range weapons mean that they risk loosing their targets too fast if they stop.

[LeonBraun]

However, in practice the pecking order seems to be

 

Scouts to kill stationary targets and take open points (Bad gunships/turrets)

Strikers to kill scouts and satellite humpers

GS to kill anything that doest see them, as above

 

^^ DIng. DIng. You sir understand.

[Hitomo_x]

Contrary to some belief, the Scout is not meant to be a dog fighter, that's the role of the Strike Fighter. The Scout gets in quick, moves to cap objectives and then needs the offensive backup and support of the Strike Fighters, as the Scouts are too squishy and don't have the sustained DPS of a Striker.

 

the funny Thing is, thats how the classes - light, medium, heavy - are designed in star.conflict

and in theory its the same in GSF

but the gameplay itself does not Support this role Distribution in the current gamemodes or maps

 

this isnt WW2 we are talking about Jet combat

 

modern jets couldnt be controlled by humans if there wasnt dozens of computer Systems

Controlling and maintaining flight and control over the whole course of a flight

 

the biggest Problem of modern Jet fighters is to maintan maneuverbility while on low Speed

 

in combat the fighter wins who can get BEHIND its Opponent, in other words the slower one

 

its similar in GSF - key attribute IS turnspeed, thats the strenght of the Scout and what makes

him better for dogfighting as the strike fighter ... or better its ability to break the strike fighters

attempt to dogfight/ get behind him ...

 

the strenght of the strike.fighter is Missile combat, if you want to call that dogfighting or not

Edited December 29, 2013 by Hitomo_x

[LeonBraun]

its similar in GSF - key attribute IS turnspeed, thats the strenght of the Scout and what makes

him better for dogfighting as the strike fighter ... or better its ability to break the strike fighters

attempt to dogfight/ get behind him ...

 

the strenght of the strike.fighter is Missile combat, if you want to call that dogfighting or not

 

If a SF is fighting a Scout, you don't want to be behind them (or coming right at them), you want to play the vectors and fight them at angles with your missiles.

 

If you try to play the Scout in straight lines, you will lose. The Scout's strength is fighting head on (or in straight line fights), they have to be countered by fighting them at range and at odd angles with missiles.

 

if people understood not trying to out-scout a Scout, they would see that the SF is really super easy to fly and get kills on. Scouts need to fight head on and in straight lines (or have targets fly in straight lines) for their offensive CDs and most effective weaponry to be of any usefulness.

 

Scouts using Cluster missiles do nothing for their burst damage strength, and they have to fight stationary targets or head on and straight lines for their low accuracy Rocket Pods to be of any use. If others fly to the strength of the Scouts, they will get burned. Don't play to the Scouts strengths.

Edited December 29, 2013 by LeonBraun

[Zoom_VI]

Contrary to some belief, the Scout is not meant to be a dog fighter, that's the role of the Strike Fighter. The Scout gets in quick, moves to cap objectives and then needs the offensive backup and support of the Strike Fighters, as the Scouts are too squishy and don't have the sustained DPS of a Striker.

 

 

No the Novadrive is ment to be the objective zerger. Going my the in-game description of a Flashfire and its given loadout the Flashfire is the personification of a superiority fighter. Strikes are a multirole jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none ship. Like 1.7 pyro of old flashfires are the #1 choice for killing but falls short to other classes in all other catagories.

[mr_sim]

in combat the fighter wins who can get BEHIND its Opponent, in other words the slower one

 

its similar in GSF - key attribute IS turnspeed, thats the strenght of the Scout and what makes

him better for dogfighting as the strike fighter ... or better its ability to break the strike fighters

attempt to dogfight/ get behind him ...

 

Modern age jet fighters don't dogfight it's mostly a long range missile duel, I reference WWI and WWII because other then the Korean War(where the fighters were too identical) and the Falkland Islands(where the fighters were too different and the pilots made the difference more then the craft) there is not really a modern example of Fighter combat where either side is close to on an even play field or the battles were too short for tactics to evolve.

 

You talk about "Turn Speed" but that isn't the same as "Turn Rate."

 

Turn Speed is the rate that craft "orbits" a point, Other words, how fast it can come around while keeping the power on. Hence following the "speed is Life" principal as a Scout that lets off the throttle can quickly find itself dead for "standing still."

 

Turn rate is different it's simply a factor of how fast a ship can change it's vector, turn rate decreases as turn speed increases. Turn rate violates the "speed is life" principal but introduces a new principal "turn is tail" you are gambling as a slow moving target to cut the loop and get a shot.

 

in a Dogfight:

Head to head is the most dangerous and most effective form of fighter combat.

Turn is tail is dangerous and effective, in 1v1 it's an excellent tactic but you are standing still if your target has friends.

Speed is Life is the least effective but highest survivability. it also will in theory be the longest combat which has value when objectives are factored.

 

No the Novadrive is ment to be the objective zerger. Going my the in-game description of a Flashfire and its given loadout the Flashfire is the personification of a superiority fighter. Strikes are a multirole jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none ship. Like 1.7 pyro of old flashfires are the #1 choice for killing but falls short to other classes in all other catagories.

 

fully agreed. Strikers are built to focus tasks however. For example my Rycer is built for maximum range combat, while my Quell is more my dogfighter at closer ranges. This may change but it's how they ended up, I'll experiment as time goes on.

[Sangrar]

scouts are fine, I have literally seen complaints about EVERY ship class,its getting just annoying at this point

[Hitomo_x]

,its getting just annoying at this point

 

but its a quite interesting discusion for the few People who actually use this Forum ^^

[Zoom_VI]

Also on a sidenote, please stop calling to nerf scouts. Do you make threads to nerf inquisitors, or nerf troopers? No you makes threads about Assassins and Vanguards.

 

Same with GSF, Flashfire is a entirely different AC from Novadrive, it has different weapons loadouts and roles. You don't call a Operative a ranged caster b/c snipers are ranged casters. So don't call a Flashfire a Scoutship b/c the Novadrive is a Scoutship.

[Hitomo_x]

I am pretty sure its called NovaDive ^^

 

greetings

[mr_sim]

I am pretty sure its called NovaDive ^^

 

greetings

 

your trolling a typo

[Blcklotus]

Wow, 5 pages.

 

Actually. I just don't want to see fast as hell, evasive ships with best dps in game. Make them damage less. Or live less. Or slower. Or anything else. You know, as for me things are going totally wrong when its easy to make 100k+ damage surviving 5 lads on your tail.

[Hitomo_x]

Modern age jet fighters don't dogfight it's mostly a long range missile duel, I reference WWI and WWII because other then the Korean War(where the fighters were too identical) and the Falkland Islands(where the fighters were too different and the pilots made the difference more then the craft) there is not really a modern example of Fighter combat where either side is close to on an even play field or the battles were too short for tactics to evolve

 

yeah, I apperently watched those shows on discovery.channel too, its called dmax over here ^^

 

I think its a good thing modern day fighters never really had the chance to compete against

each other under real warfare circumstances ^^

 

but my all time favorite is the mig.29 ... it can hover almost in place, do that cobra.maneuver

and they where the first that had that helmet wich aqquires Missile Targets by looking at them

 

remember those black.screen.helmets from top.gun ^^

 

it was kinda the rason the F-22 and Eurofighter exists today