Would GSF be more fun without gunships?

[Armonddd]

I'm thinking of Offensive Cool Down. And i assume that since I specially said Offensive Cool Down at the start of my post that people would realize what i ment.

 

And yes I just edited my previous post to make it more clear.

 

Oh. Well then, don't I look smart.

 

In my defense, having mild obsessive-compulsive disorder myself, my exposure to that particular acronym is certainly skewed.

[DarthVindictus]

I'd compromise removing gunships if they also removed all lock on missiles from the game. At least gunships have to aim. Lock on missiles have such a large targetting arc that they're essentially noob toobers, and the fact that once locked on only your engine component skill (and only some of those) and fully upgraded distortion field can get out of them. Add in the fact that the missiles have a shorter cooldown than the skills used to evade them and you really can't avoid all the noob tubing.

[Armonddd]

I'd compromise removing gunships if they also removed all lock on missiles from the game. At least gunships have to aim. Lock on missiles have such a large targetting arc that they're essentially noob toobers, and the fact that once locked on only your engine component skill (and only some of those) and fully upgraded distortion field can get out of them. Add in the fact that the missiles have a shorter cooldown than the skills used to evade them and you really can't avoid all the noob tubing.

 

Please God no. Lock on missiles are one of the most dynamic and interesting elements of the game. If you think you only have one button to break a missile lock, yes, they've going to blow you up; however, once you realize just how much terrain is out there to break line of sight (and you can deny someone a lock by breaking line of sight for just a split second) and that you don't actually need to press the evasion button until the missile actually launches, it becomes a thousand times easier to dodge missiles. I've survived four very skilled guild mates attempting to get locks and kill me for something like a minute and a half by taking advantage of these facts (and they were even smart and didn't talk in vent while chasing me, because I was in the channel with them).

 

And, of course, there's some advanced tactics: you can hold a lock in the hopes of tricking the other guy into popping his evasion cooldown, you can watch for people who are using their evasion buttons offensively or to dodge your allies, you can guess what missile is locking on to you by who you've seen around you and thus estimate its lock on time and damage,, and you can realize that most missiles don't actually do enough damage to be fatal and just tank it with power to shields when appropriate (do note, some missiles will shred you if you try this, notably sabatoge probes and upgraded concussion missiles).

[DarthVindictus]

Please God no. Lock on missiles are one of the most dynamic and interesting elements of the game. If you think you only have one button to break a missile lock, yes, they've going to blow you up; however, once you realize just how much terrain is out there to break line of sight (and you can deny someone a lock by breaking line of sight for just a split second) and that you don't actually need to press the evasion button until the missile actually launches, it becomes a thousand times easier to dodge missiles. I've survived four very skilled guild mates attempting to get locks and kill me for something like a minute and a half by taking advantage of these facts (and they were even smart and didn't talk in vent while chasing me, because I was in the channel with them).

 

And, of course, there's some advanced tactics: you can hold a lock in the hopes of tricking the other guy into popping his evasion cooldown, you can watch for people who are using their evasion buttons offensively or to dodge your allies, you can guess what missile is locking on to you by who you've seen around you and thus estimate its lock on time and damage,, and you can realize that most missiles don't actually do enough damage to be fatal and just tank it with power to shields when appropriate (do note, some missiles will shred you if you try this, notably sabatoge probes and upgraded concussion missiles).

 

Breaking lock on using line of sight does not start their missile cooldown, only waiting until they launch and using your evade gives you any respite.

 

Lock on missiles are stupid noob tube equivalents. Especially upgraded cluster missiles with flashfires.

 

I have way too many matches where a flashfire decides to personally go after me the entire match and all I can do is dodge missiles the entire match.

Edited January 1, 2014 by DarthVindictus

[Zoom_VI]

Breaking lock on using line of sight does not start their missile cooldown, only waiting until they launch and using your evade gives you any respite.

 

Lock on missiles are stupid noob tube equivalents. Especially upgraded cluster missiles with flashfires.

 

I have way too many matches where a flashfire decides to personally go after me the entire match and all I can do is dodge missiles the entire match.

 

So basically you want it where you you can sit and snipe unperturbed by anyone? Rage moar

[Sangrar]

I'd compromise removing gunships if they also removed all lock on missiles from the game. At least gunships have to aim. Lock on missiles have such a large targetting arc that they're essentially noob toobers, and the fact that once locked on only your engine component skill (and only some of those) and fully upgraded distortion field can get out of them. Add in the fact that the missiles have a shorter cooldown than the skills used to evade them and you really can't avoid all the noob tubing.

 

no gunships and no missles... yeah.......... NO. Removing content is never a good answer to anything, and without missles strike fighters begin to lose purpose, plus as someone is locking on you all you have to do is quickly zig-zag so you screw up their lock.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Sangrar

[Sangrar]

So basically you want it where you you can sit and snipe unperturbed by anyone? Rage moar

 

the guy says he will go with BOTH gunships and missles removed, both of which, especially put together, are horrible ideas.

[Zoom_VI]

the guy says he will go with BOTH gunships and missles removed, both of which, especially put together, are horrible ideas.

 

Thats funny b/c he wrote entire threads about how terrible it was that he would snipe somebody on his gunship and then be mobbed by and i quote "4 flashfires." His agreement to the remove gunships is just a front to sound more sympathetic.

 

Please he doesn't know anything about the class and apparently thinks clusters missiles are some sort of god weapon even tho nearly every good Scout uses rocket pods.

[Armonddd]

Breaking lock on using line of sight does not start their missile cooldown, only waiting until they launch and using your evade gives you any respite.

 

Lock on missiles are stupid noob tube equivalents. Especially upgraded cluster missiles with flashfires.

 

I have way too many matches where a flashfire decides to personally go after me the entire match and all I can do is dodge missiles the entire match.

 

The point of breaking los isn't to start their missile cooldown - it's too survive long enough to change the situation to your favor (an ally joins the fight, you retreat to where you have an upper hand in positioning, etc). You can indefinitely stall satellites and never get hit by any missiles if you know (approximately) where the other guy is and how to manipulate line of sight. Also don't be a bad like that one scrub on my server named Mae'thon who inevitably retro boosts into the very satellite he's trying to defend.

 

Upgraded cluster missiles are honestly not that bad. Like I said earlier, you can switch to full shields and tank them fairly easily as long as you keep an eye on your hull. Scouts are squishy; one good head to head run will end them if you're on the ball and/or force them to burn a cooldown beforehand (right after they blow up the turrets is a good time).

 

If you still have a problem with scouts (or any ship), find a buddy and stick to him like glue. Shoot what he shoots, and if someone gets on your tail, boost ahead of him. The other guy will probably boost to catch up to you, which puts him right in your buddy's sights.

[Ryuukon]

Lots and lots of posts in this thread by snipers saying "well I've made lots of shots that should have hit, but didn't. That's not fair". It's called evasion, pretty much the only defense against a good sniper.

 

Snipers should NEVER have been introduced into the game. It goes against everything that every SW flight sim has had before. There has NEVER been a sniper ship in a SW movie either. If there was, things would have been very different.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a gunship killer. I know how to hunt them down, and do all the time.

 

Doesn't mean that in the middle of a dogfight I think it's fun to do so. Especially when I'm working my *** off to cap and defend, and still don't place higher than some jackhole that knows how far to park away from their spawn point so they can hit 1 button and instantly turn around, then boost back and let the turrets finish off their attackers. ON TOP of the lame snipers that hide inside of turrets at satellites. ON TOP of the snipers in premades that have a dedicated defender (though I kind of do need to give them a little credit for this since communication is key to winning in GSF, but I wonder what they could do without being lazy and cheap).

 

Gunships are the worst idea to ever hit this game. Period. It's for the lazy who want easy req, and believe me, I know. It's the easiest ship to cap 2x req in, and is the reason most of my gunships are near cap.

[BoneEater]

Yeah, would be more fun. Either remove them or nerf them into the ground.

 

And for god's sake, I hope there's going to be two different queue's, one for premades one for pugs. If not, gg, another PvP failure.

[Sangrar]

Yeah, would be more fun. Either remove them or nerf them into the ground.

 

And for god's sake, I hope there's going to be two different queue's, one for premades one for pugs. If not, gg, another PvP failure.

 

nerf them to the ground is the stupidest suggestion ever. Its ship BALANCE, not make-the-ship-I-don't-like-awful-so-we-can -repeat-the-same-mistakes-of-ground-pvp!! Seriously, you guys want to try to ruin GSF, fine, don't complain later. And removing content is also a horrible idea, gunships are here to stay, get over it. Nerf armor and mobility (even though we have less engine capability than even the strike fighter) and crits as well as bypass if you like, at least keep range and damage because without both the gunship is useless and you will repeat the same mistakes as ground pvp. Remember how that was an "imbalance" at the beginning of the game? people demanded a serious of ill advised nerfs and buffs leading to the imbalance now, I urge everyone to take a serious look and to not repeat those mistakes unless you really want this part of the game to die.

[reclipsed]

Lots and lots of posts in this thread by snipers saying "well I've made lots of shots that should have hit, but didn't. That's not fair". It's called evasion, pretty much the only defense against a good sniper.

 

Snipers should NEVER have been introduced into the game. It goes against everything that every SW flight sim has had before. There has NEVER been a sniper ship in a SW movie either. If there was, things would have been very different.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a gunship killer. I know how to hunt them down, and do all the time.

 

Doesn't mean that in the middle of a dogfight I think it's fun to do so. Especially when I'm working my *** off to cap and defend, and still don't place higher than some jackhole that knows how far to park away from their spawn point so they can hit 1 button and instantly turn around, then boost back and let the turrets finish off their attackers. ON TOP of the lame snipers that hide inside of turrets at satellites. ON TOP of the snipers in premades that have a dedicated defender (though I kind of do need to give them a little credit for this since communication is key to winning in GSF, but I wonder what they could do without being lazy and cheap).

 

Gunships are the worst idea to ever hit this game. Period. It's for the lazy who want easy req, and believe me, I know. It's the easiest ship to cap 2x req in, and is the reason most of my gunships are near cap.

 

 

GSF is more of a twitch based arcade coin-op than a simulator. There are lots of things in this game that were not in the movies, so?

 

Why are you people crying about a certain class of ship that can easily be controlled with basic common sense and teamwork? Why are you people crying about wanting nerfs when the full game with a different ship is coming out soon?

 

The Gunship does not need a full blown nerf, it needs a very slight adjustment to the ION ability and it'll be 5by5.

[SwiftDuck]

gunships are fine. I personally dont like playing one but they are easy to kill and add nice flavor to the matches.

[Anishor]

gunships are fine. I personally dont like playing one but they are easy to kill and add nice flavor to the matches.

 

No, they are not fine and do need some adjustments, particularly bypassing slug and the debuffing Ion canon.

[renegadeimp]

funny how only the unskilled players complain, while the experienced strike fighters and scouts seem to have absolutely zero issues with them.

[Soul_of_Flames]

I refuse to pilot a gunship because of how cheap they are.

 

I do think there is something wrong with them because I don't believe they effectively work into the game's counter system. What I mean to say is that a team of 12 gunships isn't at a disadvantage to a balanced team of other starfighters.

 

I'm not going to go as far as to say they are over powered... but I do think they are not properly suited for the type of balance that the game is going for.

 

Internally, I think they should run some test games with fixed lots of starfighters per team.

Games like 12 scouts vs 12 strikes, 12 scouts vs 12 gunships, 12 gunships vs 6 scouts/6strikes, etc. Granted that games will never end up like that, it's still important information to know since you can see how well each individual class is good at supporting themselves and other players of the same class. It also will allow them to measure the effectiveness of one specific ship vs other situations.

[Brewski]

What I mean to say is that a team of 12 gunships isn't at a disadvantage to a balanced team of other starfighters.

 

Are you kidding on this one? When I see the other team composed of half or more gunships, I know it's going to be an easy win for us. I score twice as many kills in those matches, and they always end with a win by a huge margin.

 

Gunships are specialty ships, and serve very limited roles. Without strike fighters and scouts to cover them and cap, they are completely useless. A team with more than four is absolutely at a disadvantage.

[DarthVindictus]

I refuse to pilot a gunship because of how cheap they are.

 

I do think there is something wrong with them because I don't believe they effectively work into the game's counter system. What I mean to say is that a team of 12 gunships isn't at a disadvantage to a balanced team of other starfighters.

 

I'm not going to go as far as to say they are over powered... but I do think they are not properly suited for the type of balance that the game is going for.

 

Internally, I think they should run some test games with fixed lots of starfighters per team.

Games like 12 scouts vs 12 strikes, 12 scouts vs 12 gunships, 12 gunships vs 6 scouts/6strikes, etc. Granted that games will never end up like that, it's still important information to know since you can see how well each individual class is good at supporting themselves and other players of the same class. It also will allow them to measure the effectiveness of one specific ship vs other situations.

 

any more than 3-4 Gunships is a waste, gunships are terrible at capping because they don't fight well in close range that happens when orbiting a satellite, it also blows a Gunship's biggest defense: hiding

 

Once a gunship is spotted by scouts particularly flashfires/stings, that gunship can do nothing except flee until they die or break pursuit by reaching their spawn point. Either way that Gunship has been removed from play for awhile and is back at spawn point.

 

Sniping a bunch of people doesn't win the game, have to cap satellites.

 

Gunships are great at bringing down turrets and killing people attempting to cap, but terrible at capping themselves and defending. while in range of the satellite. They have to defend from 12000-15000m away

 

Someone smart may even cut throttle out of line of sight under the satellite if they see only a gunship defending.

 

By the time the gunship repositions to get line of sight, the satellite is captured.

 

Now 6 or more flashfires/stings on the opposing team, and you might as well alt+F4 out of the match. They'll outdogfight you and outcap you on satellites, and there's nothing you can do about it except have just as many flashfires/stings on your side.

[Kaivers]

I'm a Strike Fighter pilot and I think Gunships are great and need to stay (I have never flown a Gunship). Some adjustments are needed but they definitely make GSF more interesting and engaging.

 

It's fun hunting and jousting them and I get a sense of satisfaction watching them run when I use the right tactics. Even if I don't get the kill I know I just saved my teammates a lot of headache while also damaging them just enough for a friendly to finish them off.

 

Usually when they kill me its because I made a stupid mistake like:

1. Engaging them when I shouldn't have

2. Not immediately using evasive/defensive maneuvers when I notice I'm in range of OR as soon as I'm hit by, their railgun (some sort of advance warning would be appreciated but there are telltale signs if you pay attention and acting quickly enough can save you).

3. Simply being off target (sometimes due to lag) with my lasers.

 

I have met one or two Gunship Pilots who seem to be invincible and, aside from the needed adjustments like the infamous "love tap", I believe I have figured out what they are doing right and what I have been doing wrong...but bottom line, even though I maintain that Strike Fighters need to be made more competitive, I'm certain that every pilot will at some time meet his/her match in GSF no matter what ship they are flying.

[ellahrairah]

Gunships are fine, until there are a lot of them on the field at the same time. When that happens GSF blows... I would love to see something like a force organization chart for GSF... in a 12 man match have 2 slots for gunships, 4 slots for scouts and 6 slots for strikes... The best games I have played have been that kind of accidental configuration.

 

And for the flashfires and stings... Those are really strikes... nothing scouty about those...

[verfallen]

Mastered scouts actually rip out a gunship faster than they get ripped by them, even considering the oneshot ability for 25% of the time (with no crit).

 

The truth is, scouts pilots are annoyed at being oneshotted, and gunship pilots are annoyed at the 40% evasion ship that goes from out of range to on you in 2 seconds and rip you to pieces.

 

I don't mind scout getting in range to have an upper hand. But its how easy it is for them to do so that gets annoying.

 

So while its annoying that you get surprised oneshotted every now and then, I do believe scouts are the actual OP class once mastered, running circle around strike fighters with same firepower and with the ability to zoom to a gunship really fast.

 

I don't have a balance idea yet, I play gunship mostly and while I pride myself in being tough to kill, 1vs1 with a good mastered scout that dont try approaching head on leroy style with no cooldown, I'm starting at a disadvantage unless teamwork is present.

[Idunhavaname]

For current satelite? Yes.

 

Whether they should be able to one shot someone? I dont think so. Enough to deal a massive blow or even disable shields/movement for awhile maybe but being one-shotted is never fun.

[-Streven-]

To the OP.

 

NO.

[arkanone]

Yeah, would be more fun. Either remove them or nerf them into the ground.

 

And for god's sake, I hope there's going to be two different queue's, one for premades one for pugs. If not, gg, another PvP failure.

 

Anybody who doesn't agree needs to play on Shadowlands on the Imp side. I saw a pub gunship get 37 kills a few minutes ago. Another gunship on that team got 17.

 

54 kills from 2 players. Bioware dropped the ball so hard it's laughable.