Make Knights of the Old Republic 3

[Beniboybling]

I would agree that Revan's ending was a little lackluster, a great flashpoint yes but a good ending? I don't think so. I mean what exactly did he do? What did he achieve? He provided a reason for a bunch of Lvl 35 Imps to group together and have fun that's all. From a lore perspective he did little, he was freed from prison, captured the Foundry and was killed. I mean what? What was even the point? I think it would have been better if they integrated him with class stories somehow. It probably would have ended up with a biased but I think fighting alongside Revan to do X and maybe Revan sacrifices himself in the process would have been better.

 

And it could have been balanced out with cameos from the likes of Traya, the Exile, Nihilus, Sion etc. in other character stories. Really I think much of SWTOR's roots where wasted, they did good with HK-47 but....

[Zepedy]

ya ,its kinda wierd. Star wars sequels never get made . The force unleashed 3? Battlefront 3? kotor 3? i could throw a few more but its just wierd to me..

[RTCBrad]

I would agree that Revan's ending was a little lackluster, a great flashpoint yes but a good ending? I don't think so. I mean what exactly did he do? What did he achieve? He provided a reason for a bunch of Lvl 35 Imps to group together and have fun that's all. From a lore perspective he did little, he was freed from prison, captured the Foundry and was killed. I mean what? What was even the point? I think it would have been better if they integrated him with class stories somehow. It probably would have ended up with a biased but I think fighting alongside Revan to do X and maybe Revan sacrifices himself in the process would have been better.

 

And it could have been balanced out with cameos from the likes of Traya, the Exile, Nihilus, Sion etc. in other character stories. Really I think much of SWTOR's roots where wasted, they did good with HK-47 but....

 

Yep this is exactly what I mean, it was just such a wasted opportunity for some really great story content.

[JeffrenBrek]

I don't get all these Revan fanbois.

 

They guy failed at absolutely everything he tried to do, bar killing Malak.

[Beniboybling]

I don't get all these Revan fanbois.

 

They guy failed at absolutely everything he tried to do, bar killing Malak.

Yaarr yarrzee yar! Revaan sucxk!

[Aurbere]

I don't get all these Revan fanbois.

 

They guy failed at absolutely everything he tried to do, bar killing Malak.

 

It is a mystery that will never be solved.

[Selenial]

I don't get all these Revan fanbois.

 

They guy failed at absolutely everything he tried to do, bar killing Malak.

 

People Drastically overestimate him and love him dearly because they're pretty self involved and self loving. Bioware was genius, Revan is your character entirely, there's so many options that he simply becomes you, in Star Wars. And that's why everyone loves him, not because he's an in depth character, or pretty OP and cool, but because he's you, me, Beni, all of Revans haters, and all his fanboys.

[Blackholeskipper]

I would agree that Revan's ending was a little lackluster, a great flashpoint yes but a good ending? I don't think so. I mean what exactly did he do? What did he achieve? He provided a reason for a bunch of Lvl 35 Imps to group together and have fun that's all. From a lore perspective he did little, he was freed from prison, captured the Foundry and was killed. I mean what? What was even the point? I think it would have been better if they integrated him with class stories somehow. It probably would have ended up with a biased but I think fighting alongside Revan to do X and maybe Revan sacrifices himself in the process would have been better.

 

And it could have been balanced out with cameos from the likes of Traya, the Exile, Nihilus, Sion etc. in other character stories. Really I think much of SWTOR's roots where wasted, they did good with HK-47 but....

 

Maybe they could bring him back for future expansions? Since they're not continuing invidiual class stories, they need something to make the planet quests more engaging on a personal level. I think with characters like Revan they have an opportunity to break away from the usual 'random faction quest giver gives quest, do quest for faction' format.

 

Maybe have individuals like Revan or Shae Vizla in a mentor capacity and give player characters the option to be more independent from their faction (or at least from main quest givers like Darth Marr) and do the planet quests with their own twists, while still working for the overall faction.

 

Also, it'd be really interesting to work alongside Revan as a light-side Sith, even if you're still working for the Empire. Revan might be an enemy of the Empire but he might appreciate the behind the scenes work you're doing to change it and give you his grudging respect. Or maybe he tries to manipulate you into working for him. Anyway, bottom line: more character interactions. At least something different than a short speech and bam, boss fight again.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Blackholeskipper

[Sanguiluna]

I don't get all these Revan fanbois.

 

They guy failed at absolutely everything he tried to do, bar killing Malak.

 

He defeated the Mandalorians...with the help of the Revanchists.

He defeated Malak's Sith...with the help of nine other people.

 

Revan didn't fail at everything he did; just the things he didn't have help with.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Sanguiluna

[RTCBrad]

Revan failed at one thing, killing the Emperor, in large part because of Scourge.

 

Lets review;

 

Dark Lord of the Sith aka Malak? Handled.

Mandolarian Army? Handled.

Dark Council members? Handled.

Mandalore the ultimate? Handled.

Saving the republic from extinction? Handled. Three times.

Master both aspects of the force? Handled.

 

This is of course without the numerous smaller achievements, such as wiping out an entire star forge full of sith, sith troopers, and advanced rakata droids. Wiping out the entire sith academy on Korriban etc.

 

You guys just got some serious hate for whatever reason xD.

 

I just hope BioWare has the sense to bring him back and make sure he is the character that kills the Emperor, not some half baked player controlled mmo character.

[ImmortalLowlife]

People Drastically overestimate him and love him dearly because they're pretty self involved and self loving. Bioware was genius, Revan is your character entirely, there's so many options that he simply becomes you, in Star Wars. And that's why everyone loves him, not because he's an in depth character, or pretty OP and cool, but because he's you, me, Beni, all of Revans haters, and all his fanboys.

 

^Best answer ever!

#IAMREVAN

[JeffrenBrek]

He defeated the Mandalorians...with the help of the Revanchists.

He defeated Malak's Sith...with the help of nine other people.

 

Revan didn't fail at everything he did; just the things he didn't have help with.

 

He had a little more help than nine people against Malak.

 

Yes, he defeated the Mandalorians, and as a result tried to conquer the Republic and started a war that killed who knows how many people. Mission Accomplished, I guess...

 

Revan failed at one thing, killing the Emperor, in large part because of Scourge.

 

Lets review;

 

Dark Lord of the Sith aka Malak? Handled.

Mandolarian Army? Handled.

Dark Council members? Handled.

Mandalore the ultimate? Handled.

Saving the republic from extinction? Handled. Three times.

Master both aspects of the force? Handled.

 

This is of course without the numerous smaller achievements, such as wiping out an entire star forge full of sith, sith troopers, and advanced rakata droids. Wiping out the entire sith academy on Korriban etc.

 

You guys just got some serious hate for whatever reason xD.

 

I just hope BioWare has the sense to bring him back and make sure he is the character that kills the Emperor, not some half baked player controlled mmo character.

 

Now, let's review without blending out half the picture:

 

Set out to save people from the Mandalorians. Result? See above. I dare say he killed more people than he saved.

 

As I said in my first post, he did succeed at stopping Malak, so I'll give him that.

 

Next up, he has the brilliant idea of stopping the Emperor. The thought he could possibly lose did not seem to occur to him, as he didn't even leave a "just in case warning" for the Republic. Result? He failed spectacularly at killing the Emperor, and the Empire steam rolls a completely unprepared Republic at the beginning of the war. No argument, that mission was a clear failure.

 

The next ingenious idea Revan has, is to use the Foundry to kill most of the Imperial population. Yes, that sounds very Jedi-like. So at that point, he's already at least somewhat corrupt.

Of course, as is usually the case with Revan, his plan goes up in smoke (surprise, surprise). The Empire finds him, and takes the Foundry for themselves. On top of that, during the fight he once again falls to the dark side

Again, clear failure, if not the biggest, because he gifted the Empire an incredibly powerful new toy.

 

I honestly don't see what is so special about this guy.

Edited January 13, 2014 by JeffrenBrek

[Aurbere]

I honestly don't see what is so special about this guy.

 

I don't see it either.

[RTCBrad]

He had a little more help than nine people against Malak.

 

Yes, he defeated the Mandalorians, and as a result tried to conquer the Republic and started a war that killed who knows how many people. Mission Accomplished, I guess...

 

 

 

Now, let's review without blending out half the picture:

 

Set out to save people from the Mandalorians. Result? See above. I dare say he killed more people than he saved.

 

As I said in my first post, he did succeed at stopping Malak, so I'll give him that.

 

Next up, he has the brilliant idea of stopping the Emperor. The thought he could possibly lose did not seem to occur to him, as he didn't even leave a "just in case warning" for the Republic. Result? He failed spectacularly at killing the Emperor, and the Empire steam rolls a completely unprepared Republic at the beginning of the war. No argument, that mission was a clear failure.

 

The next ingenious idea Revan has, is to use the Foundry to kill most of the Imperial population. Yes, that sounds very Jedi-like. So at that point, he's already at least somewhat corrupt.

Of course, as is usually the case with Revan, his plan goes up in smoke (surprise, surprise). The Empire finds him, and takes the Foundry for themselves. On top of that, during the fight he once again falls to the dark side

Again, clear failure, if not the biggest, because he gifted the Empire an incredibly powerful new toy.

 

I honestly don't see what is so special about this guy.

 

Yeah I know he didn't beat the Emperor and I never said he did although his only mistake was bringing that fool Scourge into the equation. I did however list the numerous things he was sucessful at sadly you didn't touch on that, maybe read a post before you quote/back sas it? He set out to anhiliate the mandolorians which he did quite spectacularly.

 

And that ridiculous business with the Foundry is exactly what we have been complaining about in most of this thread, it smacks of lazy writers. There was nothing in that whole ordeal that was fitting for a character such as Revan.

 

Sadly a lot of you didn't play Kotor at launch or just didn't play it all, so Revan and his story means very little to you. Kotor 2 came out in 2004 we waited 7 years to find out what happened to Revan/The Exile and the best BioWare can come up with was a couple of largely irrelevant flashpoints, that ends in Revans possible death to a bunch of low level characters. Meetra features as a ghost in one flashpoint and is treated is even more irrelevantly. They are barely even mentioned in-spite of them being the only reason the Republic managed to survive to current time. Hell Meetra rebuilt the Jedi Order, that same Jedi Order that exists in swtor. See it from that point of view and yes the way this game handled him and Meetra was just crap, I don't know how else to describe it.

 

For me the issue isn't how powerful he is or isn't, same with Meetra, I just want a story that does justice to 2 of the most liked/iconic characters of star wars EU. Who knows Disney has star wars now hopefully they will give Obsidian the rights to develop Kotor 3 and they will retcon the terrible BioWare writing has done and give us something worthy of these characters and franchise.

Edited January 13, 2014 by RTCBrad

[Beniboybling]

It is a mystery that will never be solved.

The real mystery is why some many people hate him, and feel the need to degrade him. And why those who are fans of Revan are subject to ridicule and repulsion. As demonstrated on this very thread.

 

Of course I have my theories.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

He had a little more help than nine people against Malak.

 

Yes, he defeated the Mandalorians, and as a result tried to conquer the Republic and started a war that killed who knows how many people. Mission Accomplished, I guess...

 

 

 

Now, let's review without blending out half the picture:

 

Set out to save people from the Mandalorians. Result? See above. I dare say he killed more people than he saved.

 

As I said in my first post, he did succeed at stopping Malak, so I'll give him that.

 

Next up, he has the brilliant idea of stopping the Emperor. The thought he could possibly lose did not seem to occur to him, as he didn't even leave a "just in case warning" for the Republic. Result? He failed spectacularly at killing the Emperor, and the Empire steam rolls a completely unprepared Republic at the beginning of the war. No argument, that mission was a clear failure.

 

The next ingenious idea Revan has, is to use the Foundry to kill most of the Imperial population. Yes, that sounds very Jedi-like. So at that point, he's already at least somewhat corrupt.

Of course, as is usually the case with Revan, his plan goes up in smoke (surprise, surprise). The Empire finds him, and takes the Foundry for themselves. On top of that, during the fight he once again falls to the dark side

Again, clear failure, if not the biggest, because he gifted the Empire an incredibly powerful new toy.

 

I honestly don't see what is so special about this guy.

Enlighten me, under what authority are you operating under that gives you the right to declare what people can like and dislike? If you think any of these arguments are grounds for disliking a fictional character then you sir, are silly.

 

Why do I, personally like Revan? Because he's complex, he's flawed and he's human. Yet despite that carries a distinct sense of mystery and grandeur about him. I don't much care for his achievement and failings. Few do.

 

Or are we forgetting what a massive failure Vader was? And why would anyone like him!

Edited January 13, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Aurbere]

The real mystery is why some many people hate him, and feel the need to degrade him. And why those who are fans of Revan are subject to ridicule and repulsion. As demonstrated on this very thread.

 

Of course I have my theories.

 

mmhm...

[Beniboybling]

mmhm...

Revan4Ever.

[Aurbere]

DarthRevan4Ever.

 

Fixed. We all know Darth Revan is his coolest incarnation.

[JeffrenBrek]

Yeah I know he didn't beat the Emperor and I never said he did although his only mistake was bringing that fool Scourge into the equation. I did however list the numerous things he was sucessful at sadly you didn't touch on that, maybe read a post before you quote/back sas it? He set out to anhiliate the mandolorians which he did quite spectacularly.

 

And that ridiculous business with the Foundry is exactly what we have been complaining about in most of this thread, it smacks of lazy writers. There was nothing in that whole ordeal that was fitting for a character such as Revan.

 

Sadly a lot of you didn't play Kotor at launch or just didn't play it all, so Revan and his story means very little to you. Kotor 2 came out in 2004 we waited 7 years to find out what happened to Revan/The Exile and the best BioWare can come up with was a couple of largely irrelevant flashpoints, that ends in Revans possible death to a bunch of low level characters. Meetra features as a ghost in one flashpoint and is treated is even more irrelevantly. They are barely even mentioned in-spite of them being the only reason the Republic managed to survive to current time. Hell Meetra rebuilt the Jedi Order, that same Jedi Order that exists in swtor. See it from that point of view and yes the way this game handled him and Meetra was just crap, I don't know how else to describe it.

 

For me the issue isn't how powerful he is or isn't, same with Meetra, I just want a story that does justice to 2 of the most liked/iconic characters of star wars EU. Who knows Disney has star wars now hopefully they will give Obsidian the rights to develop Kotor 3 and they will retcon the terrible BioWare writing has done and give us something worthy of these characters and franchise.

 

I did play Kotor, and Kotor 2 is still one my favorite games. Even without the re-added content. (It's even better with it, much better than Kotor).

 

But I don't think the way he is displayed in TOR, is that far off, for all the reasons I listed above. The things Revan wants to do rarely work out the way Revan wants to.

 

Enlighten me, under what authority are you operating under that gives you the right to declare what people can like and dislike? If you think any of these arguments are grounds for disliking a fictional character then you sir, are silly.

 

Why do I, personally like Revan? Because he's complex, he's flawed and he's human. Yet despite that carries a distinct sense of mystery and grandeur about him. I don't much care for his achievement and failings. Few do.

 

Or are we forgetting what a massive failure Vader was? And why would anyone like him!

 

You enlighten me. Where did I do the highlighted part?

Did I hit a nerve?

[Beniboybling]

You enlighten me. Where did I do the highlighted part?

Did I hit a nerve?

Gladly:

 

I don't get all these Revan fanbois.

 

They guy failed at absolutely everything he tried to do, bar killing Malak.

 

Here not only do you label those who appreciate Revan with a derogatory term, but you pass of this appreciation as illogical. That is to say you assert that anyone who is a fan of Revan is delusional. Just like one cannot say that 1 + 1 = 2 apparently Revan + Fan are incompatible and equally absurd. If that is not what you were trying to say, then perhaps you'd care to call off the dogs and stop hounding people for their personal and perfectly reasonable preferences.

[Aurbere]

I think there's a difference between being a fan of a character and obsessing over that character. There's nothing wrong with liking a character for whatever reason. Just as there is nothing wrong with disliking a character for whatever reason.

 

My thoughts.

[Selenial]

People Drastically overestimate him and love him dearly because they're pretty self involved and self loving. Bioware was genius, Revan is your character entirely, there's so many options that he simply becomes you, in Star Wars. And that's why everyone loves him, not because he's an in depth character, or pretty OP and cool, but because he's you, me, Beni, all of Revans haters, and all his fanboys.

 

^^ Ended the discussion, let's stop the Revan talk now boys

 

 

Edit: Though that did focus on the fanboys.

 

People probably hate him because they don't care how like them he is, they look at a character abstractly, and he hasn't got the type of Story and character development like Surik, Atton, Canderous, Traya, Malak, Anakin, Sidious and Yoda have, for the specific reason that he was designed to be a permeable character.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Selenial

[Beniboybling]

I think there's a difference between being a fan of a character and obsessing over that character. There's nothing wrong with liking a character for whatever reason. Just as there is nothing wrong with disliking a character for whatever reason.

 

My thoughts.

Which is why its even more absurd that he used the term "fanboy" concerning those who felt Revan's ending was lacking. You don't even have to be a fan of Revan to have that opinion. Yet again the real mystery is why people feel the urge to make such accusations when any discussion favorable towards Revan arises...

 

And like I said, I have my theories.

[Beniboybling]

^^ Ended the discussion, let's stop the Revan talk now boys

 

 

Edit: Though that did focus on the fanboys.

 

People probably hate him because they don't care how like them he is, they look at a character abstractly, and he hasn't got the type of Story and character development like Surik, Atton, Canderous, Traya, Malak, Anakin, Sidious and Yoda have, for the specific reason that he was designed to be a permeable character.

I'd respectfully disagree that that is the explanation behind Revan fanboys or even fans. And a character lacking in depth is one to be overlooked, not despised and/or attacked.

 

But I'm not interested in having this discussion anyway, expressing my thoughts would not alter any opinions.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Beniboybling