HATE OR LIKE: the good, the bad, and the UGLY...and more…

[Jaegor]

The Good - GRAPHICS

excellent graphics, models, environment, explosions, nebulae, customization

balancing power to weapons / shield / engine

speed and manoevrability

choice of ships and weapons

 

the Bad - VARIOUS ISSUES

no first person view possibility - I am a starfighter pilot, I want to see space or my cockpit, not my afterburners

unclear targeting (I am using tab and E) because:

No proper radar screen - Where are my opponents ?

horrible trottle control

too big speed difference (320% I believe) between normal flight speed and boost

no LAG meter

poor User interface correction: poor standard UI

 

the UGLY - BAD MOUSE CONTROL

I have tried all kinds of mouse settings, but it would not help…in the heat of the battle I am going all kinds of directions, except the one I want to go !!!!

 

a mouse does not give you the feed back that you are moving in a straight line. period.

I mean: you do not FEEL the center position.

 

let me re-phrase; if you once used a joystick in a flight/space sim, you have a very very very very hard time to learn the controls. They are counter-intuitive for true dogfight pilots.

 

let's make this very simple: DOGFIGHTING = JOYSTICK USE

 

the HORRIFIC …….GAME ENGINE

3D space simulation dogfighting is about the skill of the pilot to judge position, vector, velocity of himself and his opponent to place his shot….. Not about the chance that you hit your target derived from some elaborate spreadsheet, which uses your player level as main driver.

 

The flight engine should provide true dogfight mechanics, and needs to be developed for maximum flyability : DIRECT response, LAG compensation, HIGH accuracy.

 

Put your developers on the core of a game: the flight engine.

 

BUT…I am very afraid Bioware used the Hero engine of SWTOR, and forced it to act like a space shooter (….can someone confirm this ?)

 

Invest in a proper game engine, the fundamentals need to be good, the nice details and other add-ons are only the cream & cherry on top.

 

use a big test group and tweak and tweak and tweak until the balance is right

 

just some quotes from other forum posters which are spot on:

 

“this is just a pretty basic space shooter with very dumbed down controls”

“The addition of mmo powers that make moves for you is beyond ridiculous. “

“I am used to play a lot of all sorts of space sims and I have never had such a bad hit ratio as in GS

“….at least had controls that didn't make me go all over the place when I am trying to shoot at something thats straight in front of me.”

“I only prayed and prayed that the devs would look to X-wing, Tie Fighther, XvT, and XW- Alliance! they didnt……”

“…In turn flying in GS is counter intuitive. “

“Bioware devs live in an alternate universe where nonsense makes sense.”

“… After flying two games, I decided the navigation was so stupid and frustrating that the rest of the features and hard work means nothing because the lack of control.”

“The problem being the twitchyness of the mouse controls... i sneeze and I do 18 bazzilion barrel rolls into an obstacle and poof game over.... I mess with my mouse sensitivity and discover the game is not playable regardless of setting.”

“….the worst thing I've seen done to a game in a long time. It's unbalanced, simplistic and poorly executed. It's not enough that I would cancel my account but like a previous poster said, if I had paid for this, I would've felt totally robbed.”

“In summary: over 85% of the posts say the controls are FUBAR.”

“…But I've had 3 decades of "flight control" training in other flying sims that says when I want my ship to go *UP*, I pull *BACK* (towards myself) on whatever control I'm using. Unfortunately….moving your mouse towards you makes it go *DOWN*, which makes your ship go down.”

"As many people said, the only game that ever used this control scheme is Freelancer.....but it was panned for it's controls."

How could Bioware EVER decide to launch GSF in this format ? Are they listening to their beta testers ?

 

so….that’s it….now I have this off my chest, I can relax again.... do a little SWTOR (not GSF!), and check out Star citizen soon….which looks very promising….but unfortunately can not use the STARWARS theme (*snif*)

 

Darth_Yaeger (XvsTieFighter and XWA veteran....still grounded…) aka Jaegor (SWTOR)

Edited December 8, 2013 by Jaegor

[VoodooV]

I agree with this for most part. I just don't care for how they merged space combat with MMO mechanics. having to break off dogfighting to take objectives or hunt own camping snipers just breaks immersion so much.

 

It was fun, but it's getting repetitive fast.

 

The game is so dumbed down and catering to the lowest common denominator. Star Citizen just hit 34 million in funding. People do want non-dumbed down space simulators. It's just so depressing that X-Wing and TIE Fighter was some of the best space combat games ever made and they're 20 some years old, and we still can't get a game of that level in the Star Wars universe

[Phrase]

To customize the UI: esc > Interface Ed. > Change Dropdown box from "Main HUD" to "Galactic Starfighter"

 

I found it helpful to log into the tutorial to customize my interface as you can see your ship position, firing arc, etc.

[MCaliban]

poor targeting - where is the “target nearest enemy” key ?

Tab.

 

too big speed difference (320% I believe) between normal flight speed and boost

Why is that bad?

[Khalhazar]

“…But I've had 3 decades of "flight control" training in other flying sims that says when I want my ship to go *UP*, I pull *BACK* (towards myself) on whatever control I'm using. Unfortunately….moving your mouse towards you makes it go *DOWN*, which makes your ship go down.”

 

Preferences -> Starfighter -> Invert Mouse Vertical?

 

Are objectives really that immersion-breaking for you? It seems like you want Galactic Dogfighter or Interstellar Arena.

[Jaegor]

tab = cycle through nearby enemy players .....NEARBY is not NEAREST

...but OK I did not make a strong point there, so I take it out.

But my statement stays: poor targeting, as it is complicated to choose and select the player you want to attack with the current interface (radar) and keys for selecting. (typically this would be: put your crosshair on the enemy of your preference and hit a certain key.

 

Hitting your afterburner is a too easy escape, see other posts.

(although I could not really test it MYSELF because for a former joystick user it seems impossible to steer your craft properly)

Edited December 8, 2013 by Jaegor

[Luckyluzi]

typically this would be: put your crosshair on the enemy of your preference and hit a certain key.

 

 

you can do this with default E ...

[Arkerus]

I don't know how many times it has to be said but...

 

The current UI was not designed for flightstick usage. It is based on a mouse and is very much why the targeting system works the way it does. A flightstick would require a locked reticule.

 

A flightstick would be completely incompatible with the current system.

 

We might see it someday but stop asking for flightstick usage where the current UI will not support it. You can use a gamepad right now with xpadder but I don't see why you would. The inside targetting reticule is designed to be an aiming "game" with your mouse.

 

The developers are probably not going to split the community on a control scheme. I can't predict the future but that would be a terrible idea. There is no cockpit view because this isn't a space sim and no cockpit assets exist (or they might exist but they weren't used).

Edited December 8, 2013 by Arkerus

[Hitomo_x]

man, at least Play a few matches before you complain about anything

everything you mention can be adjusted and did you had a look at the available key commands?

 

I usaly only use the key that selects the target below your crosshair and the key to the select the

target that has hit you the last time

 

if you hover over a target (noot selected) in Shows the distance below, it only takes a few seconds

to determine the nearest taget

 

in General Targets have less distance if you see them moving fast acroos your Screen

Targets that are near get bigger brackets and also a heaver direction arrow in your hud

 

use the mini map for General orientation and Navigation, Change your HUD

 

http://oi39.tinypic.com/286x3lz.jpg

[shiatcgge]

I'm so sick of the negativity on these forums. You guys are never happy with anything BW does for the game. You screamed for a Tie-fighter like sim and now you got it! Now please stop complaining !!

[shiatcgge]

The Good - GRAPHICS

excellent graphics, models, environment, explosions, nebulae, customization

balancing power to weapons / shield / engine

speed and manoevrability

choice of ships and weapons

 

the Bad - VARIOUS ISSUES

no first person view possibility - I am a starfighter pilot, I want to see my cockpit !!!

poor targeting options

No proper radar screen - Where are my opponents ?

horrible trottle control

too big speed difference (320% I believe) between normal flight speed and boost

no LAG meter

poor User interface, which is not customizable (yet ?)

 

the UGLY - BAD MOUSE CONTROL

I have tried all kinds of mouse settings, but it would not help…in the heat of the battle I am going all kinds of directions, except the one I want to go !!!!

 

a mouse does not give you the feed back that you are moving in a straight line. period.

I mean: you do not FEEL the center position.

 

let me re-phrase; if you once used a joystick in a flight/space sim, you have a very very very very hard time to learn the controls. They are counter-intuitive for true dogfight pilots.

 

let's make this very simple: DOGFIGHTING = JOYSTICK USE

 

the HORRIFIC …….GAME ENGINE

3D space simulation dogfighting is about the skill of the pilot to judge position, vector, velocity of himself and his opponent to place his shot….. Not about the chance that you hit your target derived from some elaborate spreadsheet, which uses your player level as main driver.

 

The flight engine should provide true dogfight mechanics, and needs to be developed for maximum flyability : DIRECT response, LAG compensation, HIGH accuracy.

 

Put your developers on the core of a game: the flight engine.

 

BUT…I am very afraid Bioware used the Hero engine of SWTOR, and forced it to act like a space shooter (….can someone confirm this ?)

 

Invest in a proper game engine, the fundamentals need to be good, the nice details and other add-ons are only the cream & cherry on top.

 

use a big test group and tweak and tweak and tweak until the balance is right

 

just some quotes from other forum posters which are spot on:

 

“this is just a pretty basic space shooter with very dumbed down controls”

“The addition of mmo powers that make moves for you is beyond ridiculous. “

“I am used to play a lot of all sorts of space sims and I have never had such a bad hit ratio as in GS

“….at least had controls that didn't make me go all over the place when I am trying to shoot at something thats straight in front of me.”

“I only prayed and prayed that the devs would look to X-wing, Tie Fighther, XvT, and XW- Alliance! they didnt……”

“…In turn flying in GS is counter intuitive. “

“Bioware devs live in an alternate universe where nonsense makes sense.”

“… After flying two games, I decided the navigation was so stupid and frustrating that the rest of the features and hard work means nothing because the lack of control.”

“The problem being the twitchyness of the mouse controls... i sneeze and I do 18 bazzilion barrel rolls into an obstacle and poof game over.... I mess with my mouse sensitivity and discover the game is not playable regardless of setting.”

“….the worst thing I've seen done to a game in a long time. It's unbalanced, simplistic and poorly executed. It's not enough that I would cancel my account but like a previous poster said, if I had paid for this, I would've felt totally robbed.”

“In summary: over 85% of the posts say the controls are FUBAR.”

“…But I've had 3 decades of "flight control" training in other flying sims that says when I want my ship to go *UP*, I pull *BACK* (towards myself) on whatever control I'm using. Unfortunately….moving your mouse towards you makes it go *DOWN*, which makes your ship go down.”

"As many people said, the only game that ever used this control scheme is Freelancer.....but it was panned for it's controls."

How could Bioware EVER decide to launch GSF in this format ? Are they listening to their beta testers ?

 

so….that’s it….now I have this off my chest, I can relax again.... do a little SWTOR (not GSF!), and check out Star citizen soon….which looks very promising….but unfortunately can not use the STARWARS theme (*snif*)

 

Darth_Yaeger (XvsTieFighter and XWA veteran....still grounded…) aka Jaegor (SWTOR)

 

What a long list of bs complaints this is! I hope BW ignores you!

Edited December 8, 2013 by shiatcgge

[Nickious]

I have a sneaking suspicion that people like the OP got out of probably two or three matches and jumped to conclusions before actually thoroughly investigating command keys and trying to work with the mouse and keyboard controls. Its not like its perfect but the complaints of bad controls is being highly overexeggerated.

[Mallorik]

I don't know how many times it has to be said but...

 

The current UI was not designed for flightstick usage. It is based on a mouse and is very much why the targeting system works the way it does. A flightstick would require a locked reticule.

 

A flightstick would be completely incompatible with the current system.

 

We might see it someday but stop asking for flightstick usage where the current UI will not support it. You can use a gamepad right now with xpadder but I don't see why you would. The inside targetting reticule is designed to be an aiming "game" with your mouse.

 

The developers are probably not going to split the community on a control scheme. I can't predict the future but that would be a terrible idea. There is no cockpit view because this isn't a space sim and no cockpit assets exist (or they might exist but they weren't used).

 

And I don't know how many times it has to be said that other flight games have this same set up while in mouse mode and just switch to a locked reticle when you put it in joystick mode. Its not like they would have to rebuild the ui, many f2p games with 1/4 the production bw has have easily implemented it.

 

And I agree with the op on most points. But I do like the mmo tie in, I like building my ship to fight in turns or up close or at a distance and I think the accuracy comppnent expands that. And I don't think it breaks from reality, some guns shoot more accurately and some guns have faster muzzle velocity which would make them hit their target more often while in a turn.

[Arkerus]

And I don't know how many times it has to be said that other flight games have this same set up while in mouse mode and just switch to a locked reticle when you put it in joystick mode. Its not like they would have to rebuild the ui, many f2p games with 1/4 the production bw has have easily implemented it.

 

And I agree with the op on most points. But I do like the mmo tie in, I like building my ship to fight in turns or up close or at a distance and I think the accuracy comppnent expands that. And I don't think it breaks from reality, some guns shoot more accurately and some guns have faster muzzle velocity which would make them hit their target more often while in a turn.

 

And like I said, introducing a cockpit mode alienates a portion of the player base. Now they are supporting TWO control schemes and two sets of complaints. I'm not saying they won't do it but don't get your hopes up.

 

As for th other games and budget costs, that all superfluous BS with no bearing on this conversation.

[Andryah]

As for th other games and budget costs, that all superfluous BS with no bearing on this conversation.

 

Indeed. Classic red herring and hand grenades tactics that are so common in gaming forum discussions.

 

Billy and Johnny pronounce anything not specifically designed their snowflake specifications to be a failure, often of epic proportions, and in need of a complete reboot....NAO!.

 

Happily, Bioware listens to players but NOT to nonsense from players.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Andryah

[Rigsta]

tab = cycle through nearby enemy players .....NEARBY is not NEAREST

Pressing it once targets the nearest detectable enemy. Pressing it repeatedly cycles through enemy targets in order of distance (as far as I could tell). Pressing it once after a brief pause targets the nearest enemy again.

[Mallorik]

And like I said, introducing a cockpit mode alienates a portion of the player base. Now they are supporting TWO control schemes and two sets of complaints. I'm not saying they won't do it but don't get your hopes up.

 

As for th other games and budget costs, that all superfluous BS with no bearing on this conversation.

 

How does offering a cockpit view alienate anyone? I probably wouldn't play in cockpit view but I wont clutch my pearls and claim im being "Alienated" if they implement the option. You people who seem hell bent on limiting options in this game just baffle me.

[DanNV]

(typically this would be: put your crosshair on the enemy of your preference and hit a certain key.

 

Ummm.... It is, put the crosshairs over a target and press E (or whatever else you mapped that function to.) R targets whoever hit you last.

 

Hitting your afterburner is a too easy escape, see other posts. (although I could not really test it MYSELF because for a former joystick user it seems impossible to steer your craft properly)

 

Practice. The speed boost is fine and limited by your engine power pool. If you want more engine pool, you have to cut the others. If you are having problems steering, fly more. It really does take some time to get the hang of it. Once you do, it's relatively easy. (If you have 2 monitors it can go out of game, so be careful of that.)

[Mallorik]

Indeed. Classic red herring and hand grenades tactics that are so common in gaming forum discussions.

 

Billy and Johnny pronounce anything not specifically designed their snowflake specifications to be a failure, often of epic proportions, and in need of a complete reboot....NAO!.

 

Happily, Bioware listens to players but NOT to nonsense from players.

 

Yeah bioware listening to you guys has done wonders for this game. You should be a politician. Good thing bioware eventually does listen to the people who actually know what theyre talking about and fixes things eventually.

 

If they didn't we would still be without the ability to respec, group finders or parsers. Now if bioware would just never listen to you people we could skip all the problems and just do it right the first time.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

I grant I'm not fond of the evasion + accuracy mechanic but things like crits, power boosting etc. are fine. I'd have personally preferred if they took a page from Battlefront 2 where accuracy is based soley on your personal ability to aim (heck keep the little lead guide, Secret Weapons Over Normandy had them too so why not) and abilities that perform maneuvers like barrel roles with the current abilities unrelated to accuracy/evasion. Some MMO features are kinda cool but I'm not fond of the accuracy/evasion stats.

 

As for the UI/cockpit stuff: just customize your UI so all the things like targeting computer are organized like in X-Wing. I did that and the only difference between the UI in GSF and X-Wing is the third vs first person view but otherwise it looks similar.

[Itkovian]

How could Bioware EVER decide to launch GSF in this format ? Are they listening to their beta testers ?

 

Hum, yes, they were. It happens that many of them were having a blast, just like many players now are having a blast too.

 

If by this you mean "Isn't bioware willing to change their design to please everyone who complained?", then no, of course not.

 

It's unfortunate that you are not enjoying it as much as you could, but don't make the mistake of thinking the majority of players share your concern, or that the majority of your concerns could have somehow realistically have been addressed (revamp the dogfighting engine? really?).

[AlrikFassbauer]

I'm so sick of the negativity on these forums. You guys are never happy with anything BW does for the game. You screamed for a Tie-fighter like sim and now you got it! Now please stop complaining !!

 

Have you ever played TIE Fighter ?

 

If not, then you can't judge.

[Tellenn]

If the freelancer controls are so good why has Chris Roberts never used them again and Star Citizen will use stick or pad as standard controls.

 

Freelancer only used those controls because it was an open world, originally intended to be an mmo, space exploration game. Unless BW intends to seriously build upon GSF then the control scheme just doesn't fit the genre.

 

SC is going to make this mini-game absolutely pointless.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Tellenn

[JonathanCP]

Not about the chance that you hit your target derived from some elaborate spreadsheet, which uses your player level as main driver.

 

WTH are you talking about OP??

[Jaegor]

Hum, yes, they were. It happens that many of them were having a blast, just like many players now are having a blast too.

 

Thanks for your reply. I am not a game expert, I am just a "customer", like all gamers are. But I do know how much fun you can have in a good dog fight.

I only wanted to have a blast too, when I loaded GSF on the 3rd of december. Hell, I wanted the same adrenaline pumping experience like in the old STARWARS space sims !

So I did read the tutorials, I tried 20 matches, I felt the old adrenaline rush again, but I can not get the controls right.

And I think I am not alone. I think the majority of all GSF pilots experiences these control issues. Especially If you ever used a joystick or held any gamepad like controller with a mini-joystick.

 

If by this you mean "Isn't Bioware willing to change their design to please everyone who complained?", then no, of course not.

 

It's unfortunate that you are not enjoying it as much as you could, but don't make the mistake of thinking the majority of players share your concern, or that the majority of your concerns could have somehow realistically have been addressed (revamp the dogfighting engine? really?).

 

I am probably an old fool barking up the wrong tree indeed.

And with me there are probably many others with similar issues who decide to not play GSF, and not bark.

People who, just like me, are very frustrated not being able the play their favorite game: a true 3D space sim in STARWARS theme.

You claim the majority will like the game.

But we are only 5 days live....let's wait and see.