Full PVP gear set on the cc market

[Wainamoinen]

High-level gear in an MMO fills many functions.

 

1) It's a reward for good play (or at least dedication, in time spent).

2) It provides advantages in improved stats.

3) These both mean that it is a status symbol within the game to have the best gear. It shows you are better (in terms of power and/or skill) than other players.

 

 

Having high status gear that is difficult to obtain, because of the skill required or sheer grind, keeps people playing a game.

 

In SWTOR, the actual stat advantages of high-level PvP gear are trivial. They exist only to give PvPers a prize to work toward, another spur to keep them playing on top of the fun of playing itself. So the only real advantage of actually HAVING the highest-tier PvP gear is status.

 

 

People who want to be able to purchase the top tier PvP gear simply want to use their real-world resources to short-cut their game-world struggle to achieve status and prizes. They can already obtain competitive gear very easily, the “level playing field” argument is bogus.

 

Making top-level PvP gear available for RW money would cut the throat of the game, by instantly devaluing the status of the top-tier gear. There would be no point working towards something that no longer shows you’re the best, simply someone with a lot of real-world money to waste. People who bought top-level gear would feel good about themselves for a week or two, while the playing population decays as people stop playing a game where gold medals go to the athletes who spend the most money.

 

Character development games (like SWTOR) need to give you ways to work towards improving your character, so that people keep playing them. Allowing players to instantly buy the top prizes is a good way to close down. Allowing players to use their real-world resources to purchase the in-game prizes debases the game.

 

 

Games are more fun when they are an enclosed system – the in-game rewards reflect your in-game performance, with all players starting on an equal footing. It is also games like this that have a long-term (profitable) lifespan.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Wainamoinen

[Marrius]

I am just going on what I read. Want to dispute it, then do so. But rather do it without passive aggressive attacks and insults as it makes your point invalid.

 

ORLY? The fact that EA is a parent company to BW and that SWTOR is just one product that BW produces has nothing to do with validating what I said?

As far as what you read, I read that post too and had you read two posts down from it you would have seen someone else pointing out that SWTOR is not the sole revenue earner for EA.

Furthermore, before you post something that you have read, think about what you are saying and ask yourself if it makes sense. At least research claims you see because if anything makes someone's claims invalid, it is ignorance.

 

Hows that for not being passive agressive.

[Marrius]

Cute. I don't care how geared you are or myself. I'm more concerned with players bypassing a system which imo helps build up actual skill and mechanics of MMO's. Someone being able to just simply buy gear will just make your casual player weak and dependent on these systems and will further separate the every growing skill gap in MMO's in general. .

 

And grinding to get gear while someone else is actually working makes you dependent on preying on the lower geared less, experienced player. If (and when) P2W is brought in with pvp mods in the CC it will narrow the gap between the hard core gamer and the casual gamer. Your skill (as a hard core gamer) 'should' be better than that of a P2W player. If not, then I understand your missgivings.

 

 

This game has been getting dumbed down for some time and I cant honestly support a system where it eliminates any thought in preparing yourself for max level PvP.

 

Does this mean if you don't get what you want you will take your ball and go home?

[Jorojus]

And grinding to get gear while someone else is actually working makes you dependent on preying on the lower geared less, experienced player. If (and when) P2W is brought in with pvp mods in the CC it will narrow the gap between the hard core gamer and the casual gamer. Your skill (as a hard core gamer) 'should' be better than that of a P2W player. If not, then I understand your missgivings.

 

 

 

 

Does this mean if you don't get what you want you will take your ball and go home?

 

OH **** why did I pick this title. I DO NOT WANT TO PAY FOR IT (just to get that misunderstanding out of the way), I despise the cc market.

 

I just want to get rid of augments or make pvp more worthwile in terms of credits so I do not have to PVE or craft in order to be able to augment my gear.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Jorojus

[Marrius]

High-level gear in an MMO fills many functions.

 

In SWTOR, the actual stat advantages of high-level PvP gear are trivial. They exist only to give PvPers a prize to work toward, another spur to keep them playing on top of the fun of playing itself. So the only real advantage of actually HAVING the highest-tier PvP gear is status..

 

Ok so if its so trivial why are you arguing against someone getting pvp gear. Furthermore why not post a thread asking that all pvp gear have pvp stats removed, effectively making the gear PVE but with a different look.

 

The triviality you speak of is a 60% boost in pvp dmg? not to mention dmg redux when you get your max lvl expertise. (which can only be obtained with pvp gear)

 

I would like to know how many of you have purchased the expertise statted crystal in the cc (the one that can be used at lvl 35) the fact that this crystal goes for 5mill + on the GTM is indicative that the tiviality you speak of is the only thing bogus here.

 

 

People who want to be able to purchase the top tier PvP gear simply want to use their real-world resources to short-cut their game-world struggle to achieve status and prizes. .

 

Well if we are going to toss accusations and assumptions, allow me to reciprocate... People who don't want others to purchase pvp gear with real money want ot use their free time to short-cut the real-world struggle that it would otherwise take to purchase the product (and thereby support the game financially in this manner)

 

Making top-level PvP gear available for RW money would cut the throat of the game, by instantly devaluing the status of the top-tier gear. There would be no point working towards something that no longer shows you’re the best, simply someone with a lot of real-world money to waste. People who bought top-level gear would feel good about themselves for a week or two, while the playing population decays as people stop playing a game where gold medals go to the athletes who spend the most money..

 

Wrong again, PvP for many people is fun unto itself. But if you want BW to give out prizes then why not be happy with legacy achievements. After all you post stated that its only status that you are looking for.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Marrius

[Marrius]

OH **** why did I pick this title. I DO NOT WANT TO PAY FOR IT (just to get that misunderstanding out of the way), I despise the cc market.

 

I just want to get rid of augments or make pvp more worthwile in terms of credits so I do not have to PVE or craft in order to be able to augment my gear.

 

Jorojus, it seems to me that you used a misleading title to grab people's attention but in so doing you lit a fire under some of our butts over something that appearantly has been festering in the minds of many casual players.

 

Don't sweat it. In truth I think getting this disscussion out of the way will be good for everyone no matter if BW brings in P2W or not.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Marrius

[Jorojus]

Putting a fire was what I wanted at first ,

 

I changed the starting post, hope it clears up how I actually think about it.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Jorojus

[L-RANDLE]

Crafted 53/54 PvE stuff is better than Conq in quite a few slots, and you can have all your endgame augments done before you hit 55. You don't even PVP gear to start.

 

The only situation it comes into play is open world, and there is soo much open world and it awards WZ/RWZ comms for gear too..

 

 

Good to see, in my absence, that the same lame *** complaints still have...... UNLIMITED POWA!!!!!!!!

[Marrius]

Crafted 53/54 PvE stuff is better than Conq in quite a few slots, and you can have all your endgame augments done before you hit 55. You don't even PVP gear to start.

 

The only situation it comes into play is open world, and there is soo much open world and it awards WZ/RWZ comms for gear too..

 

 

Good to see, in my absence, that the same lame *** complaints still have...... UNLIMITED POWA!!!!!!!!

 

60% dmg increase in PVP is why I would buy pvp gear on the CC. But if they took away experise then I might be less inclined.

[L-RANDLE]

60% dmg increase in PVP is why I would buy pvp gear on the CC. But if they took away experise then I might be less inclined.

l2minmaxbolster

[Marrius]

l2minmaxbolster

 

Isn't that the next step after getting your max expertise? You're preaching to the choir on this one bub.

[L-RANDLE]

Isn't that the next step after getting your max expertise? You're preaching to the choir on this one bub.

 

haha, you must be new here...

 

Try rereading my first post... My primary damage was 1594 and I only replaced relics when I hit 55. Full Obroan is 1630ish.. Gear hasn't been an issue in WZs since bolster's inception.

 

 

 

and my crit and crit multi was higher in PvE gear

 

[Marrius]

Gear hasn't been an issue in WZs since bolster's inception.

 

 

 

and my crit and crit multi was higher in PvE gear

 

So why then, if gear is not an issue, are people against the idea of pvp gear being availabnle in the CC?

 

Or are you secretly for CC pvp gear?

[L-RANDLE]

So why then, if gear is not an issue, are people against the idea of pvp gear being availabnle in the CC?

 

Or are you secretly for CC pvp gear?

 

 

The same reason top level PvE pieces are not there. You nullify what little gear progression there is in this game.. I know its hard to believe, but some people do like it. Even for PvP.

Edited December 11, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[Jorojus]

haha, you must be new here...

 

Try rereading my first post... My primary damage was 1594 and I only replaced relics when I hit 55. Full Obroan is 1630ish.. Gear hasn't been an issue in WZs since bolster's inception.

 

 

 

and my crit and crit multi was higher in PvE gear

 

You are only proving a point if, it is right what you say, that PVE gear shouldn't be able to be used in PVP in terms of balance (not competitivity) in normal warzones.

 

IF you look at it from a PVP only player viewpoint. (Imagine augmenting all your toons without crafting, or doing any PVE at all)

 

+ the assumption that PVP should not be affected by needing to do stuff outside of PVP in order to compete (talking about ranked warzones and competition) in it.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Jorojus

[L-RANDLE]

You are only proving a point if, it is right what you say, that PVE gear shouldn't be able to be used in PVP in terms of balance (not competitivity) in normal warzones.

 

IF you look at it from a PVP only player viewpoint. (Imagine augmenting all your toons without crafting, or doing any PVE at all)

 

+ the assumption that PVP should not be affected by needing to do stuff outside of PVP in order to compete (talking about ranked warzones and competition) in it.

LOL Did you level by pvp only? Its not like there has ever been perpetual que pops. Its a PvE game dude... You have to do PvE on some level to be successful/self-sufficient. Plus the only real gap is augments and again you can buy oranges and augment them with MK-9 and there is ZERO level requirement to do this...

 

And if you happen to have a problem with that, if you want to P2W, there are plenty of spams in general chat to become "competitive" without doing any PVP or PvE.

[Jorojus]

LOL Did you level by pvp only? Its not like there has ever been perpetual que pops. Its a PvE game dude... You have to do PvE on some level to be successful/self-sufficient. Plus the only real gap is augments and again you can buy oranges and augment them with MK-9 and there is ZERO level requirement to do this...

 

And if you happen to have a problem with that, if you want to P2W, there are plenty of spams in general chat to become "competitive" without doing any PVP or PvE.

 

Besides my main/ first toon I have leveled my other toons in PVP mostly + class quests because all the side quests are just a repetitious part of the game where I have no interest in.

 

I don't want P2W, sorry for the title again, I changed the starting post.

[Marrius]

LOL Did you level by pvp only? Its not like there has ever been perpetual que pops. Its a PvE game dude... You have to do PvE on some level to be successful/self-sufficient. Plus the only real gap is augments and again you can buy oranges and augment them with MK-9 and there is ZERO level requirement to do this....

There's a little more to it than that (min/max, bolstering, 33% crit etc...) to be successfully geared for WZs.

 

And if you happen to have a problem with that, if you want to P2W, there are plenty of spams in general chat to become "competitive" without doing any PVP or PvE.

 

You are not seriously advocating buying gold now are you? Though I support the idea of being able to buy PVP gear on the CC (P2W) I do not support the idea of gold buying. It is against the TOS and WILL get you banned.

[DariusCalera]

There's a little more to it than that (min/max, bolstering, 33% crit etc...) to be successfully geared for WZs.

 

 

 

You are not seriously advocating buying gold now are you? Though I support the idea of being able to buy PVP gear on the CC (P2W) I do not support the idea of gold buying. It is against the TOS and WILL get you banned.

 

I'm fairly certain he was being sarcastic.

[Wainamoinen]

Ok so if its so trivial why are you arguing against someone getting pvp gear. Furthermore why not post a thread asking that all pvp gear have pvp stats removed, effectively making the gear PVE but with a different look.

 

The triviality you speak of is a 60% boost in pvp dmg? not to mention dmg redux when you get your max lvl expertise. (which can only be obtained with pvp gear)

Conqueror gear is available with little effort. With Bolster going in with PVE gear is nearly as good as Conqueror. The improvement in stats of Obroan over Conqueror is definitely trivial, and you undermine your position wuith your wildly exaggerated "60% increase" nonsense.

 

I would like to know how many of you have purchased the expertise statted crystal in the cc (the one that can be used at lvl 35) the fact that this crystal goes for 5mill + on the GTM is indicative that the tiviality you speak of is the only thing bogus here.

So are you in favour of buying gear or not? I wouldn't spend 5mill credits on a crystal when I get one for peanuts from a PvP piece.

 

Well if we are going to toss accusations and assumptions, allow me to reciprocate... People who don't want others to purchase pvp gear with real money want ot use their free time to short-cut the real-world struggle that it would otherwise take to purchase the product (and thereby support the game financially in this manner)

No. Prizes should reflect performance. If you perform well in the game, you get the prizes. Allowing people to buy the prizes devalues their social value - the reason people want to buy them without making any effort - and debases the game.

 

Wrong again, PvP for many people is fun unto itself. But if you want BW to give out prizes then why not be happy with legacy achievements. After all you post stated that its only status that you are looking for.

If you enjoy PvP, then you should be delighted to earn your gear while playing it. Instead you want the best gear given to you.

 

If you want a medal for supporting the game, write a cheque to EA for S1,000. If you want the rewards for the best PvPers, play the game. The stat difference IS trivial, so not having it won't appreciably hurt your performance.

 

"60% difference" from top-tier gear. Righto.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Wainamoinen

[PloGreen]

You are only proving a point if, it is right what you say, that PVE gear shouldn't be able to be used in PVP in terms of balance (not competitivity) in normal warzones.

 

IF you look at it from a PVP only player viewpoint. (Imagine augmenting all your toons without crafting, or doing any PVE at all)

 

+ the assumption that PVP should not be affected by needing to do stuff outside of PVP in order to compete (talking about ranked warzones and competition) in it.

 

I think they made bolster simply because so many people were joining warzones in pve gear. When they introduced the pvp starter set they introduced the option of taking that or 300k. Many players simply chose the latter because the starter set was blue gear and they thought it was inferior, and lets face it it was not great. So they changed the way expertise was on gear to accommodate a lot of pve minded players.

 

I think in hindsight this was not such a bad change, the only issue was that people found ways to exploit it. They tried to balance the game to make it more friendly for newer players, and in a lot if ways they succeeded if you compare this game now to years ago. Full pvp gear is still for the most part going to get the job done, especially if you read up on stat curves, theory crafting and min maxing your class and spec.

Edited December 11, 2013 by PloGreen

[Marrius]

Conqueror gear is available with little effort. With Bolster going in with PVE gear is nearly as good as Conqueror. The improvement in stats of Obroan over Conqueror is definitely trivial, and you undermine your position wuith your wildly exaggerated "60% increase" nonsense..

 

PVP DMG Boost: 60%

PVP dmg reduction: 37.5%

PVP healing boost: 20.38

 

These are the stats I would want for for pvp gear that I would buy if available on the CC. They are based off 2018 expertise (max). It seems I did not catch your meaning when you said high level pvp gear but in truth my point still applies. If you think PvP gear is trivial either between tier 1 and tier 2 or trivial overall then why would you have a problem with someone purchasing it with real money.

 

 

So are you in favour of buying gear or not? I wouldn't spend 5mill credits on a crystal when I get one for peanuts from a PvP piece. .

 

Not sure which piece of lvl 35 gear will give you a +41 expertice crystal? That is what is available on the CC now.

 

 

No. Prizes should reflect performance. If you perform well in the game, you get the prizes. Allowing people to buy the prizes devalues their social value - the reason people want to buy them without making any effort - and debases the game..

 

This accorfing to you and those that have the time to grind but as I have stated before, money talks and you can bet that BW will eventually introduce some form of P2W.

 

 

If you enjoy PvP, then you should be delighted to earn your gear while playing it. Instead you want the best gear given to you.

 

Given to me? LOL! No I work for my money, I don't get it at the welfare line. You?

Edited December 11, 2013 by Marrius

[Cordorian]

I have posted this multiple times, to get a full set of conqueror gear takes little more than a week, just doing you pvp dailies and weeklies. If you think that is a tough grind, then i wonder why you want pvp gear after all?

For the rest bolstered pve gear does well enough.

[Marrius]

I have posted this multiple times, to get a full set of conqueror gear takes little more than a week, just doing you pvp dailies and weeklies. If you think that is a tough grind, then i wonder why you want pvp gear after all?

For the rest bolstered pve gear does well enough.

 

Though I may not pay for conqueror gear I would pay for oberon gear. THIS is the grind I do not have time to do on all my 55's I've still not gotten all my oberon set on my main and the update is a month old now. to do this for all 9 of my characters is just too time consuming.

 

So if you or anyone else has a problem with what I want, well I don't really much care. The fact is I am posting this, I hope BW reads it and the rest of the posts that tell of how people would support P2W and let us buy what we want with our hard earned dollars. If you and the rest of the grinders leave when/if P2W happens, that would only prove another posters point, that you only pvp when the odds are in your favour and you prefer to curbstomp rather than have a real fight.

[theUndead]

Though I may not pay for conqueror gear I would pay for oberon gear. THIS is the grind I do not have time to do on all my 55's I've still not gotten all my oberon set on my main and the update is a month old now. to do this for all 9 of my characters is just too time consuming.

 

So if you or anyone else has a problem with what I want, well I don't really much care. The fact is I am posting this, I hope BW reads it and the rest of the posts that tell of how people would support P2W and let us buy what we want with our hard earned dollars. If you and the rest of the grinders leave when/if P2W happens, that would only prove another posters point, that you only pvp when the odds are in your favour and you prefer to curbstomp rather than have a real fight.

 

And I don't care what you want.

 

I hope BW reads the posts and sees that people will NOT support P2W. I mean if you read one the recent developer blogs they said they want to AVOID P2W in its entirety. So therefore what you want is in fact irrelevant as it is in fact the majority which is relevant and this majority disagrees with you.