No Elevator controls?! In a space combat game?!

[Ren_simp]

I've played nearly every space flight sim that has ever been released, from Elite, to the Wing Commander games, to XWing/Tie Fighter, and of course JTL in SWG.

 

This has got to be the most pathetic effort at a space flight sim I've ever seen. The controls need 3 hands (at least) and mouse control will NEVER be any good for flight. If you aren't willing to invest $20 in a joystick, you have no business playing a flight anything sim. And any flight sim that doesn't support a joystick is garbage.

 

Congrats, Bioware, you managed to F- up the only part of Star Wars that Sony didn't manage to screw up in SWG, the space game!

 

If this is your idea of spacefighter combat, you might as well have kept it "on rails" with us at the mercy of "combat pilot Drunken Monkey" who flies our ships constantly into asteroids, allowing us only to wiggle it a little...

 

What gave you the idea that this was a space sim? Nowhere is it mentioned that this was going to be a full blown space

Sim.

[Nempo]

For those saying there is no air in space. Have you never seen any of the Star Wars movies before? Considering you play a Star Wars game I'd have thought you would have at least have seen the films. The starfighters all work like aircraft. They all bank and use drag to turn. Lucas was copying the WW2 films with the Spitfire and Messerschmidt when he made the space sequences in the movies.

 

Banking to turn really needs to be introduced to make it more like the movies. It will also cut down on the classic circling you get in spacefighters like this.

 

You CAN bank to turn, roll your ship side-ways and point up. You actually turn FASTER if you do this. Why do you need buttons to do this when you can do it yourself manually using the mouse+roll buttons? That is the point of GS...work it manually and show you have skill rather than using keys to do it. The fact you have to use your mouse also gives you more control, you don't always want it to be an on/off switch when you turn that way, while weaving between the shipyards and struts...having exact control over the turns is needed.

[Hambunctious]

Maybe fighter pilots around the world should convert their flight systems to SWTOR's keyboard, and mouse flight system. It's clearly superior to anything before it. Edited December 6, 2013 by Hambunctious

[Angedechu]

What is laughable is that people here claims that ''it take skill'' to play GS, but they mock players mentionning TIE Fighter.

 

The Old Republic is in certain top 10 list. TIE Fighter too.

 

It's just not the same top 10.

[Nempo]

Maybe fighter pilots around the world should convert their flight systems to SWTOR's keyboard, and mouse flight system. It's clearly superior to anything before it.

 

I am always amused at how fanatical people are about flight sticks, I've been able to use a flight stick or mouse in any flight game and get similar results (some games the mouse wins out, others the flight stick), however...for a flight stick to work the targeting rectacle needs to be fixed. With how GS is set up...joysticks simple don't work properly to even feel remotely correct or responsive.

[Angedechu]

Who here spoke about joystick ? Any gamepad did the trick for FREESPACE and Co.

 

And one more time, the point is, in TIE Fighter, you had to actually do manoeuvers, not press a key. When an A-Wing locked a concussion missile on you, you had to either outrun it or shot it.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Angedechu

[Nataph]

I was hoping for the joystick however I learned to use the mouse effectively by trying.

But then again, I adjust easily.

[Mallorik]

Question: What good would elevators be in space? Need air for elevators to work.

 

I don't know how you don't know this if you've been playing the game, but the physics in GSF are atmospheric, not space. You don't need to bank and pitch up to turn in space, in GSF you do.

[Hambunctious]

When an A-Wing locked a concussion missile on you, you had to either outrun it or shot it.

 

Now now, it takes skill to press a button that does all the jinky janking for you. I mean you actually have to press a button...seriously serious skill required.

[Nempo]

Who here spoke about joystick ? Any gamepad did the trick for FREESPACE and Co.

 

And one more time, the point is, in TIE Fighter, you had to actually do manoeuvers, not press a key. When an A-Wing locked a concussion missile on you, you had to either outrun it or shot it.

 

P a scout, you can outrun missiles, juke them into hitting obstacles, or simply take the hit then reinforce your shields. Oh look at that...exactly what you just described no?

 

You can also pull off manual barrel rolls if you set up your ship properly...it doesn't auto disengage missiles but can make it a nightmare for someone to keep you locked. You can also pull off manual 180 degree turns nearly as fast as the auto-maneuver buttons. I'm not seeing the problem here, the difference is the button guarantees the missile loses tracking, the manual one doesn't. Being able to pull off the manual one however does ensure you will be able to shoot people down and surprise the heck out of them however.

[DarthKurt]

I am MAD AS HELL

No Joystick ? Ri-********n-diculous !

[DarthKurt]

I've played nearly every space flight sim that has ever been released, from Elite, to the Wing Commander games, to XWing/Tie Fighter, and of course JTL in SWG.

 

This has got to be the most pathetic effort at a space flight sim I've ever seen. The controls need 3 hands (at least) and mouse control will NEVER be any good for flight. If you aren't willing to invest $20 in a joystick, you have no business playing a flight anything sim. And any flight sim that doesn't support a joystick is garbage.

 

Congrats, Bioware, you managed to F- up the only part of Star Wars that Sony didn't manage to screw up in SWG, the space game!

 

If this is your idea of spacefighter combat, you might as well have kept it "on rails" with us at the mercy of "combat pilot Drunken Monkey" who flies our ships constantly into asteroids, allowing us only to wiggle it a little...

 

+1 x100

 

This could have been a such good game, just by adding joystick support... with out a joystick it is garbage.

[Tellenn]

I agree with the comments above having played alot of fighter and space games. Although I did play freelancer and it wasnt terrible for its day the majority of fighter games that dont have joystick control tend to be much worse because of it. You just cant make these type of games for mouse and/or keyboard. Its like playing a rts without mouse or racing game without controller support. The correct controller can the most important part of a game as some genres just dont work properly without them.

 

Its a shame as they dont make many anymore and bioware could have found a niche. You just totally miss the connection with the game without a stick.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Tellenn

[Dragoon-]

P a scout, you can outrun missiles, juke them into hitting obstacles, or simply take the hit then reinforce your shields. Oh look at that...exactly what you just described no?

 

You can also pull off manual barrel rolls if you set up your ship properly...it doesn't auto disengage missiles but can make it a nightmare for someone to keep you locked. You can also pull off manual 180 degree turns nearly as fast as the auto-maneuver buttons. I'm not seeing the problem here, the difference is the button guarantees the missile loses tracking, the manual one doesn't. Being able to pull off the manual one however does ensure you will be able to shoot people down and surprise the heck out of them however.

 

When trying to evade missile or in a dogfight it's very important to roll the ship so that you rather pitch than yaw since you have usually a ~50% higher tuning rate when pitching.

[Traesk]

i like the space combat, but i have to issues with it. First off i have a joystick collecting dust since the swg days since this game shut down swg i pretty much have to play it to enjoy a star wars mmo. That being said, i am not the only swg vet playing this game, there are many of us out there, and we remember the space combat of that game. We miss the feel of the joystick and the complete control over our ships. All i am asking is for bw to make this happen, give us the ability to use either a mouse or joystick, it is all about personal preference, they did it in swg and it worked, so yeah give it a try.

 

Second is, i see it is just space pvp, why the hell did bw make it space pvp only, i know a lot of people asked for it, but come on, we did mention we liked space pvp, but we would like pve too, that mini game is not going to cut it. I would like to see this new space combat for pvp and pve. It would be more fun, if i did not have to do pvp all the time.

 

Bw please take a good long look at swg space combat, i bet if you tried hard enough to make it much like that, and put out as much effort as you did on this one, people would return to the game when they see it just like an updated version of swg jump to lightspeed. I mean come on, this is star wars we want to do missions in space as well as pvp, give us a free roam space like swg look at it. I could go from planet to planet from my ship and set the course while i was in combat. Not to mention i could loot, do missions, even endless space missions to get money and space experience.

 

If bw would just do what soe did with swg's space combat style and the free roam instead of this queue to go into space bit it would be more fun. I did not know i had to wait in line, and grab a ticket to use my own ship to go into space. Why did you do that? That is not the way star wars is..... Just make it like swg free roam, and just copy the space expansion. I am not looking to continue my subscriptions if i keep getting disappointed. Look around i am not the only one who feels this way.

 

We are also not being ungrateful, we are just shocked after everything we told you, all the stuff people asked to get out of space combat, and what all of your swg vet subscribers asked for, yet you still did the opposite of what we were looking for. I know this is not swg, but really did you not read the posts. Please just read them and listen to us.....

 

 

this!!!

[_Viserys_]

I love when people don't read an entire thread and just post. To the people arguing in favor of GSF's current "controls"...

 

Roll is an essential control, as is pitch. Roll has keys, pitch has...none? That's the point of this whole thread. Yes you turn faster if you roll then pitch. That's essential to air combat maneuvers or ACM. Even though this is space, the game clearly flies like an atmosphere. In any flight game, ACM are important to evading an enemy or fighting tactically to gain the initiative and eventually advantage in a dogfight.

 

While you can achieve pitch in this game without keys for it, IT'S WAY TOO DIFFICULT FOR HOW DERPY THIS GAME IS TO BE ABLE TO SMOOTHLY MANEUVER AND/OR SHOOT AN ENEMY THAN IT NEEDS TO BE.

 

How can you deny that? Either you don't know any better or you're a fanboy with no common sense.

 

Either give us keybinds for pitch or add joystick support. Give us some option damnit. Quit being fanboys and use your head.

 

That's all I'm asking. Is that so hard?

[Dragoon-]

I love when people don't read an entire thread and just post. To the people arguing in favor of GSF's current "controls"...

 

Roll is an essential control, as is pitch. Roll has keys, pitch has...none? That's the point of this whole thread. Yes you turn faster if you roll then pitch. That's essential to air combat maneuvers or ACM. Even though this is space, the game clearly flies like an atmosphere. In any flight game, ACM are important to evading an enemy or fighting tactically to gain the initiative and eventually advantage in a dogfight.

 

While you can achieve pitch in this game without keys for it, IT'S WAY TOO DIFFICULT FOR HOW DERPY THIS GAME IS TO BE ABLE TO SMOOTHLY MANEUVER AND/OR SHOOT AN ENEMY THAN IT NEEDS TO BE.

 

How can you deny that? Either you don't know any better or you're a fanboy with no common sense.

 

Either give us keybinds for pitch or add joystick support. Give us some option damnit. Quit being fanboys and use your head.

 

That's all I'm asking. Is that so hard?

 

You steer you craft with your mouse much like in Freelancer. Just move the mouse in the direction you want to fly. Its not that hard and the same control scheme for everyone else playing GS. If you have difficulties try reducing your mouse sensitivity. My default sensitivty for the ground game is to high. Luckily my mouse got a DPS switch, although I would prefer a desperate setting for GS. BTW you can strafe in the game with your keyboard. Very useful when using a satellite or asteroid as cover.

[Zoom_VI]

I don't know how you don't know this if you've been playing the game, but the physics in GSF are atmospheric, not space. You don't need to bank and pitch up to turn in space, in GSF you do.

 

Except he specified elevators. Elevators are actual flaps on the tail of a aircraft. GSF starfighters don't even have tails much less elevators so asking for Elevator controls is silly. If he wants to use pitch and yaw he should talk about pitch and yaw not elevators.

[GalacticKegger]

You're thinking of atmospheric flight. In space there's no atmosphere so there's nothing for elevators, spoilers & ailerons to lean on. No air, no lift. In space it's all about directional thrusters slowly pushing a free-floating mass with or against it's own momentum. As a result dogfighting in space with traditional avionics is a scientific impossibility. So we use science fiction as the bridge between traditional avionics and hard science to make space dogfighting plausible. I think the devs made the right call on this one.

 

If you're looking for space flight sim realism, check this out:

http://www.space-shuttle-mission.com/

Edited December 6, 2013 by GalacticKegger

[_Viserys_]

Wow, amazing. For the last 3 posts, just wow. You guys gave me really good laughs.

 

Try reading the entire thread before posting...

[GalacticKegger]

Wow, amazing. For the last 3 posts, just wow. You guys gave me really good laughs.

 

Try reading the entire thread before posting...

Glad you enjoyed the laugh. I too wish they would have kept all of the flight controls on one hand or the other exclusively ... personally preferring keyboard-centric flight control leaving the mouse for pov/hat and weapons firing.

 

As it stands now, pitch is tied to the mouselook function which is why joysticks aren't feasible - though gamepads can be used because mouselook can be mapped to the ministicks. The problem is that mouselook in GSF comes through gamepad sticks as oversensitive. We beat the crap out of it in beta and couldn't dampen the sensitivity enough to make it comfortable.

 

As an American it's no different than driving in Japan. The cars work the same, it's just that everything is either backwards or awkward. Of course, they say the same thing about our driving ... so there's no right or wrong in how the ergonomics are set up. Took me about an hour to feel comfortable with the GSF controls. Remapping a few things (strafe to Q & E especially) made a big difference.

[Strixs]

The reason would be statements like these:

 

Why do people have such an adversity to those of us who think flying with a keyboard and mouse and not having cockpit view is total crap.

The sad part is BW actually shot themselves in the foot with this.Seeing how they ****ed it up,

 

It's incredibly stupid.

 

See, because people aren't just saying "I really wish this had joystick support and cockpit view, I'd find it a lot more fun", but rather say that GS is terrible, or incredibly stupid, or "total crap".

 

Because some people, many of them in fact, find GS to be extremely enjoyable and an excellent addition to TOR, and very much disagree with such over-the-top statements, especially when they have the pretense of objectivity.

 

Would it have been better if it was a full free-roam space sim like JTL? Maybe, and for some certainly (I probably would have loved it better, to be honest). That does not mean we have to passively stand by when we see it called incredibly stupid or total crap. Don't like it? That's fine, but let's have the decency to accept that there's a lot of players who are happy with what we got, and will be getting in the future.

 

Never mind that very often, the things people clamour for is highly unlikely to have ever happened in today's market.

 

^^^^^^^^ This Guy 10/10 All of this......... yah!

Edited December 6, 2013 by Strixs

[Solissdeadstar]

What's the problem? It's not like the flying in this game is on the level of Red Baron or Battlehawks 1942, where you actually had to fly with your mouse. Fun times. It's also not Il-2, where you can even use paddles. It's significantly toned down. Joystick support is not necessary the way it is now.

 

OMG! You can't fly like in Il-2! I doubt most of you can in full realism in Il-2 anyway. Plus it would never be a valid addition to an MMORPG because nobody would play it (except a few hardcore nuts who have the hardware for it) thus it's not worth the dev time.

 

Also, SWG this and SWG that are not valid arguments. SWG failed, shut down and is gone. SWTOR is not SWG, was never planned to be it. Why is that so hard to understand? How often does one have to beat that into people's skulls? Are people really that thick?

 

The SWG space combat was pretty meh to begin with. XvT it was not. Not even remotely. Want to talk Star Wars multiplayer space combat? Start with XvT or XWA, everything else doesn't count.

 

If anything, make this more like XvT or XWA but stay the F away from the failure that was SWG.

 

Also, why's the cockpit view so important? It doesn't give you any advantage or disadvantage. It's just a gimmick.

 

PS:

Ace Combat... not a flight sim

SW Battlefront... not a flight sim

Jump to light speed... not a flight sim

 

Joystick and full controls for arcade type are laughable. In Il-2? Yes, even necessary to have proper control of the bird. In any of those three examples, and including SWTOR or any random FPS that allows flying? Heck no. Arcade is arcade, stop pretending it's an actual flight sim. It's not a flight sim.

 

 

 

Eh? where the hell do you get off saying SWG combat was never good to begin with, did you ever play it or were you still stuck on pokemon on N64 when it came out? we could have a Gun ship with six gunners, 1 pilot and a co pilot and we took on Capitol ships, and hordes of Rebel or imperial combatants in PVP and in PVE we dominated. I guess you never knew that, I am also guessing you needed to look up SWG to know what we were talking about, and to make responses to this. I see that you think it is not important, but yes most of the SWTOR players that are still playing today are SWG VETS like myself, and BW asked the community what we wanted in the game for space combat, and naturally we spoke out. We asked for space combat like SWG to make us feel more at home, but also bring something to this game that would be amazing, with better quality, like a SWG space combat upgrade. Do you really think if they did a SWG space combat upgrade in this game that it would not explode with popularity especially with SWG vets? I think it would bring new, old, and return a lot of the lost players in this game.

 

SO before you go saying that SWG combat sucked it did not, and plus if you did play you might have hatted it since I or others may have been the ones kicking your behind all over space.

[Hambunctious]

Eh? where the hell do you get off saying SWG combat was never good to begin with, did you ever play it or were you still stuck on pokemon on N64 when it came out? we could have a Gun ship with six gunners, 1 pilot and a co pilot and we took on Capitol ships, and hordes of Rebel or imperial combatants in PVP and in PVE we dominated. I guess you never knew that, I am also guessing you needed to look up SWG to know what we were talking about, and to make responses to this. I see that you think it is not important, but yes most of the SWTOR players that are still playing today are SWG VETS like myself, and BW asked the community what we wanted in the game for space combat, and naturally we spoke out. We asked for space combat like SWG to make us feel more at home, but also bring something to this game that would be amazing, with better quality, like a SWG space combat upgrade. Do you really think if they did a SWG space combat upgrade in this game that it would not explode with popularity especially with SWG vets? I think it would bring new, old, and return a lot of the lost players in this game.

 

SO before you go saying that SWG combat sucked it did not, and plus if you did play you might have hatted it since I or others may have been the ones kicking your behind all over space.

 

Good man. Keep up the good fight.

[Solissdeadstar]

Yeah, seeing all these posts reminds me that yes, SWG combat was the best, it took skill to win. We did not have rapid shooting we had to pull the trigger or click the mouse to do each shot. So your timing had to be just right, it was not a spray and pray like a drunk 4 year old with a gun. It took skill and hours and hours of practice to be good. Also when we out-ran missiles it was not easy. We had to use Chaff's to hopefully hit the missiles. We could not out run them unless you built or had someone build you a booster that was able to outrun it. And Finally when dog fighting we could make more than mere left, right , up and down maneuvers. If you were really that good you could do one of my favorite moves in pvp or pve, you dog fight by flying at your enemy with a full burn boost then cutting out full throttle and finally braking to line up on them and fire missiles and blast them. This was achieved by swinging a 180 degree slide to attack them, it made it very hard to hit someone when they did this attack. There are many others I know of and none of which are doable in this game. This is just sad that we has such a horrible amount of control still. Obviously this is something we cannot do in this game, I have spent days trying to in PVP, and have not even come close.

 

On a last note one thing I see that no one needs skill to play this game, all we need to do is gang up on one or a few guys and kill him. In SWG that was not practical, me and a few of my best space friends could take on 3 or more in a pvp fight because we had a lot of control and skill over our craft which GSF does not, and looks like it will never offer. So SWG = a Skill space combat game, GSF = No skill needed, just lots of cartel coins.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Solissdeadstar