Shadow Protection needs to last longer..

[THoK-Zeus]

That's bold part; confusing. Math is Math; if you increase 25% on DR that mean you receive 25% less damage, and 40% the scale of your total DR. Let's do math shall we; 1 hand we have 25% fix ok ? On the other hand 40% of incoming damage, are you sure it's the original incoming damage ? or the damage that had already substrate by your DR ? Let's consider the later for your argument sake. For 40% of scale to higher than 25% fix; ur original DR should be higher than 60% ? I believe most Guardian and Jug got that easy.

No again, your "math" is totally wrong... If you increase your damage reduction by 25% it means that your damage reduction got increased by 25% not that you receive 25% less damage.

 

Yes i am sure from Invincible it's 40% of the damage after mitigation. Overcharge Saber on the other Hand increases your armor from 45% to 70% which means that you get 30% instead of 55% damage (which is more then a 40% damage reduction).

 

If we would have 75% DR Overcharge Saber would make us completely invincible we would not get 1 single Point of damage....

 

Also your last sentence "math" would be completely wrong. 40% DR out of 60% DR means a reduction of 16% of the whole damage (cause with 60% DR you just get 40% of the damage....). That would be 76% DR. 60% DR +25% =85% DR.

 

From the stuff you posted you probably think that Invincible gets better the more DR you have.

 

That's wrong,

 

Invincible gets worse with more DR, while Overcharge Saber gets stronger with more DR (the 2.5 buffs for example). The more damage you mitigate, the less damage Invincible can actually prevent. If you previously got 2000 damage with worse gear and you now get 1500 damage (simple example), Invincible will just prevent 600 instead of 800 damage.

 

If you previously mitigated 50% of the incoming damage (so let's say 4000 damage -> 2000 damage) you will mitigate 75% of the damage, so instead of 2000 damage you will get 1000 damage. If you now prevent 62,5% of the incoming damage (4000 damage -> 1500 damage) you will prevent 87,5% of the damage with Overcharge saber. so you will just get 500 dps.

 

Both times Overcharge Saber reduced the incoming damage by 1000 (which is actually far more useful if you have better gear).

 

 

Endure Pain increase 30% of you health bar and temp - heal you for 30%; it heal you 30% regardless; and your healer will continue heal you after that. The point is it is a "panic skill" and it better than Battle readiness.

You lose this health afterwards. If you prefer losing health or think it's equal to an normal 30% heal, ok, i and every other tank in the world doesn't.

 

 

 

Oh yes; here come the argument about stealth res and stealth. It is a freaking bug, it was never meant to be emergency mechanic for tank. The purpose is to escaped. And using it will not get any heal; so even if you are extremely fast; you will lost the heal that healer throw at you when you cloak, that heal is the number heal that you use the medpack.

You don't get it again. When you use your stealth, you will be able to use your medpack again, because you were temporarily out of combat. And that is intended.

 

 

So no I don't count that stupid cloak in the official emergency ability for tank. Therefore the number still stance; you have 2 abilities to choose from in emergency; the self heal is faster cool down and heal more. You can choose which situation to use one of 2 we can only use 1 and long cool down.

 

And yes; right back at you. The lie about cloak had become the truth and everyone thinks it is the official ability. Stop spreading false tale.

 

The self heal from juggernauts is not healing. It doesnt heal you for a single Point of health!

 

Since Day 1 of the game it's the official ability that Force Cloak brings you temporarily out of combat. And that is all this ability needs to do, cause out of combat = medpack can be used multiple times...

Edited December 26, 2013 by THoK-Zeus

[tXHereticXt]

You don't get it again. When you use your stealth, you will be able to use your medpack again, because you were temporarily out of combat. And that is intended.

 

Prior to the changes, it wasn't intended. They just couldn't find a way for the mechanic to work effectively while having a skill that by all intense and purposes works as the mechanic allowed. What they need to do, to balance this, is to allow all agro dumps the ability to pull them out of combat so that they too can be used numerous times in combat for the other classes. Otherwise, this is a change just waiting to happen. Which would suck because we lost out healing mechanic that made this little trick pretty OP.

Edited December 27, 2013 by tXHereticXt

[Jiminison]

Okay, let's assume you're getting "cc'd to heck." You were unable to channel TKT to regain health, but now you've got a significantly higher base DR from armor, and so you take less damage anyway. And if you've been "cc'd to heck," you should end with a full resolve bar, then channel your 3 seconds of TKT and have your 4 stacks back. You're not happy because you don't like the changes that are a nerf in 1 v 1 and a buff everywhere else. Besides, if you didn't hit that TKT every 12-15 seconds, this change is a buff, anyway. I've Shadow tanked in pvp both before and after the changes, and I like the changes. It makes us less insanely OP node guards and more like a real tank. I feel like I don't crumple under repeated auto-crits (read Smash) quite so easily any more, ESPECIALLY when I can keep up Shadow Protection. Numbers don't lie, nor am I misleading people who "can't grasp what happened."

 

Another thing I seem to be unable to grasp is: Where were all these complaints about self heals being removed when the changes were posted months ago? They posted the changes 3 or so weeks after we had our round of questions for the combat team, but I only saw a small number of people say they didn't want to lose the self-heals.

 

I my self did not read much on the shadow tank change threads. My only concern was that shadow tanks were considered op and our heals would just be reduced again because of the Hybrid spec and fib heals on top of our self heal mechanism. I run my talents all the way up the tank tree and dump the rest on the more offensive talents in the other trees I forsake force in balance( and it's extra heals) for slow time and other balance talents so pure tank gets the shaft again. I never thought they would completely remove self heals that is my fault for not reading more threads in what I thought was purely pve's problems but as you can see a lot of us are coming out about this because this awesome pve fix that does not translate to pvp. I feel the difference that is all the proof I need and as I stated earlier with my fix to this problem ( the self heal tank form)and yes I mean 2 tank forms to choose from then none of this discussion needs to even be going. If they can take on the bolster system they can make this work IMO. And in all honesty I stayed with the last mmo I played for 8 years (so I am able to commit) and it was just a roller coaster of disappointment taking staple abilities away and just plain destroying the class and in some cases giving them to other classes this just feels too much like that ! I should have seen it when we (shadows) were the last to get a class preview a month from launch while most other classes had 2 by that point I didn't even know what the shadow was going to bring too the table till then. Basically In any relationship with work, business or personal if you are ignored and or shut down even when you have a solution to the problem it's best too walk away because decisions have been made that don't usually get reversed.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Jiminison

[Jiminison]

Nice to see shadow protection will not be refined in 2.6 . So since we are consulars as well will we get the benefit of no push back to our sage shared abilities like tkt . DPS Operatives are getting a large dps buff so they will be back to pre 2.0 ownage most likely. So while we get locked down we wont even get a chance to get dr off and their heals are getting a buff too! while we completely lost ours. I am so disappointed!

[Aelanis]

Nice to see shadow protection will not be refined in 2.6 . So since we are consulars as well will we get the benefit of no push back to our sage shared abilities like tkt . DPS Operatives are getting a large dps buff so they will be back to pre 2.0 ownage most likely. So while we get locked down we wont even get a chance to get dr off and their heals are getting a buff too! while we completely lost ours. I am so disappointed!

 

Hold on now. They said dps shadows were getting a DPS buff (nowhere either time was it said to be "large"), and look how much that did for us: nearly jack. It moved us from worst to tied for worst dps. Also, they said nothing about buffing Operative heals. To top it off, no, we aren't getting to share in the pushback prevention that Sages/Sorcerers are getting, they left us out specifically. And for a thread titled as it is, I'm pretty sure this has no relevance here. I'm not even sure what you're disappointed about, here. Sage/Sorcerers are the only one of the classes mentioned for 2.6 that got anything in 2.5: and what they got was pretty measly outside of PVP. Other classes should get a chance to have their issues addressed, too. Shadow may be my favorite class, but we're not all-important. Lastly, any class that gets stun-locked is pretty boned (as I'm guessing that's what you were referring to). Shadows even happen to be one of the few classes that can spec into a "take less damage while stunned" talent.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Aelanis

[Jiminison]

Hold on now. They said dps shadows were getting a DPS buff (nowhere either time was it said to be "large"), and look how much that did for us: nearly jack. It moved us from worst to tied for worst dps. Also, they said nothing about buffing Operative heals. To top it off, no, we aren't getting to share in the pushback prevention that Sages/Sorcerers are getting, they left us out specifically. And for a thread titled as it is, I'm pretty sure this has no relevance here. I'm not even sure what you're disappointed about, here. Sage/Sorcerers are the only one of the classes mentioned for 2.6 that got anything in 2.5: and what they got was pretty measly outside of PVP. Other classes should get a chance to have their issues addressed, too. Shadow may be my favorite class, but we're not all-important. Lastly, any class that gets stun-locked is pretty boned (as I'm guessing that's what you were referring to). Shadows even happen to be one of the few classes that can spec into a "take less damage while stunned" talent.

 

So you don't remember Dps Ops at launch they were destroying everyone and it does say to expect a signifigant boost in damage, but it's cool because you will get a taste of what they can do when over tuned so enjoy. Pretty sure their Kolto heals healing more targets is a buff. My point is not to pick on the operative because I have one and they are fun my point is that shadows changes a few weeks ago were called a buff and all the pve heroes are patting them selves on the back for the change while acting like this is better for pvp as well, I still believe it was a nerf to pvp for the player. MY complaint toward the sage and operatives buffs are that they will be a buff across the board and make sense for both pve and pvp which is fine because I get the changes. But when it comes to dealing with shadows BW approaches buffs (arguably) with an unorthodox technique that makes no sense even our damage buff was just to a few abilities not a complete buff to all damage abilities which I assume the operative is getting since they did not specify any particular ability buff but a signifigant buff tells me this means an over all buff. And as far as shadow being less important in the grand scheme of things! To me my shadow is important since I have spent a lot of time I will not get back on him!

[Nateous]

So you don't remember Dps Ops at launch they were destroying everyone and it does say to expect a signifigant boost in damage, but it's cool because you will get a taste of what they can do when over tuned so enjoy. Pretty sure their Kolto heals healing more targets is a buff.

 

Dude, no offense, but reading is a skill. The quote about Healing buffs were for MERC/MANDO's not Operatives. Also, to through the "DPS Ops where OP at launch argument" really shows that anything else you have to say is null and void, as you cant even fathom WHY they were so OP, i.e. we had to pop every adrenal, relic, and stealth cd just to get those numbers, to a non-tiered PVP system, where end-game geared ppl where taking on greens (hint that only lasted till 1.1-1.2) Its easy to drop 2k hits on 12k hp- opponents and cry foul. GUESS WHAT...we're still hitting 2k on 25K+ hp-opponents.

 

Lastly, why dont you, oh i dont know, wait for the full patch notes to be released, before you spew nonsense in a thread that has nothing to do with 2.6 kthxbai:cool:

[Aelanis]

So you don't remember Dps Ops at launch they were destroying everyone and it does say to expect a signifigant boost in damage, but it's cool because you will get a taste of what they can do when over tuned so enjoy. Pretty sure their Kolto heals healing more targets is a buff. My point is not to pick on the operative because I have one and they are fun my point is that shadows changes a few weeks ago were called a buff and all the pve heroes are patting them selves on the back for the change while acting like this is better for pvp as well, I still believe it was a nerf to pvp for the player. MY complaint toward the sage and operatives buffs are that they will be a buff across the board and make sense for both pve and pvp which is fine because I get the changes. But when it comes to dealing with shadows BW approaches buffs (arguably) with an unorthodox technique that makes no sense even our damage buff was just to a few abilities not a complete buff to all damage abilities which I assume the operative is getting since they did not specify any particular ability buff but a signifigant buff tells me this means an over all buff. And as far as shadow being less important in the grand scheme of things! To me my shadow is important since I have spent a lot of time I will not get back on him!

 

Like posted above, Mercenaries/Commandos are the ones getting the healing buff. Not Operatives. Besides, they haven't said how they're going to buff DPS Scoundrels/Operatives. Honestly, Scrapper needs some more sustained damage. I'm not so sure about Dirty Fighting, having seen Invinc whoop everybody who isn't a Pyro Merc/Assault commando or Engineering Sniper/Saboteur Slinger with the numbers he put up last night. Still, That's not even relevant to this thread.

 

Bioware, more recently, has been making fewer heavy-handed changes that result in massive imbalance. Numbers have been run, and they point to tanking actually being very well balanced right now, even in PVP. Say what you will about your feelings, I'll take numbers over feelings every single time. On top of this, as minor as the buffs were to Shadow DPS, they were buffs, Shadows largely received buffs across the board. Aside from a 1 v 1 fight, the changes to tanking were a buff for Shadow tanks in PVP, and in the content where it's more likely to make the difference between dying and nota difference at current gearing levels, it was buff for PVE as well.