2 Years of sub... where is the box sized expansion?

[Darth-Obvious]

So, allow me ask a question : Would you pay $49.99 - $59.99 for a massive TOR expansion pac?????

 

That's no enough.

 

There aren't enough people playing TOR and/or willing to buy an expansion for that to be profitable.

 

If that were actually a viable option they would do it.

 

They don't have the money or resources to do a "massive" TOR expansion.

[GalaxyStrong]

That's no enough.

 

There aren't enough people playing TOR and/or willing to buy an expansion for that to be profitable.

 

If that were actually a viable option they would do it.

 

They don't have the money or resources to do a "massive" TOR expansion.

 

Then this game is in alot more trouble than it would appear.

 

This make me a Sad Panda :(

[Sarfux]

Boxed sized expansions are done for the most part except for some. Now are the days of digital downloads you pay 10 or something dollars for and get more content faster rather than waiting for 2 plus years JUST for a box.

 

I like this way better.

[Darth-Obvious]

Then this game is in alot more trouble than it would appear.

 

This make me a Sad Panda :(

 

Every MMO with the exception of WoW is basically in the same place.

 

If you want to know what to expect from the future of an MMO in terms of content, look at what their out put has been. For example with TOR, what type of content have they released since the game came out? What size was that content, how frequently did it come out, what did it offer, change, etc, etc? Now look at any other MMO out there like Star Trek, Champions, GW2, etc, etc, and realize that everything with (again) the exception of WoW basically put out the same amount of content, at the same rate, and with a similar pricing model and/or what they offer to purchase.

 

They're all like that because they're all run by small teams that don't have much of a budget to work with and they all generally handle things the same way because that's what they have to do to survive.

 

TOR is only in as much trouble as any other F2P game out there. They all do well enough due to microtransactions . In other words TOR is only as in as much trouble as it's (non-WoW) competition.

[Nemmar]

I understand what your saying and to a certain point I agree with you BUT, if you think you are simply entitled to a free massive expansion pac for TOR then, your CRAZY!!!!

 

That being said, I love this game and without a doubt would pay $49.99 - $59.99 for a massive expansion pac and it's my belief (which could be wrong) that alot of other people would also be willing to pay that price as well.

 

So, allow me ask a question : Would you pay $49.99 - $59.99 for a massive TOR expansion pac?????

 

Wow... i never said anything about free. Yes, it would assume a full expansion pack price. There would be no other way to finance that ammount of content.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Nemmar

[Nemmar]

That's no enough.

 

There aren't enough people playing TOR and/or willing to buy an expansion for that to be profitable.

 

If that were actually a viable option they would do it.

 

They don't have the money or resources to do a "massive" TOR expansion.

 

Theres about 500k subs and plus the people who would come back for the expansion and the preferred status guys.

 

I think it would sell shy to 1 million, wich should make it worth it. Since its not HUGE ammounts of money though, and its EA were talking about... it becomes difficult. The game definitly needs it though. And if EA had any long term vision they would green light it.

[AlienEyeTX]

The game definitly needs it though.

 

It does not "need" it. It would be welcome, but not necessary.

[Darth-Obvious]

Theres about 500k subs and plus the people who would come back for the expansion and the preferred status guys.

 

I think it would sell shy to 1 million, wich should make it worth it. Since its not HUGE ammounts of money though, and its EA were talking about... it becomes difficult. The game definitly needs it though. And if EA had any long term vision they would green light it.

 

You're assuming that everbody who plays TOR or even the majority would buy the expansion pack, when that's not the case. Expansion packs are lucky if they get a 50% adoption rate. Often times when it comes to things like expansion packs or DLC for games you're generally only seeing a 10 to 20% adoption rate.

 

Alot of people consider DLC to be over priced for games but in reality it's priced based on the amount of people they think will buy it, which a developer almost always low balls. It's even worse on consoles where first parties like Microsoft and Sony are getting a cut of all DLC, which ends up being yet another reason that DLC tends to be more expensive than people think it should be.

 

Besides all of that though you're still ignoring the fact that Bioware Austin does not have the resources to do what you're asking for. There staff just isn't capable of it.

 

EA isn't going to dump a bunch of new money into TOR in order for them to do an expansion pack. TOR was/is the most expensive video game ever made (costing over 100 million) and it didn't do the buisiness that EA wanted it to, however after going F2P it has become more successful but not to the point where they're going to spend more money on it. They want to keep it exactly where it's at because where it's at is profitable for them and they don't want to mess with that.

 

Among other things you seem to be under the impression that an expansion pack would "fix" things, but it's not the lack of content that is a problem or the thing that drives people away from the game. There are dozens of things wrong with TOR's base game. An expansion isn't going to fix those things.

 

The devs behind TOR have always been so afraid of people burning through their content or getting to the point that they have nothing to do that they do/add all these things to keep the player in the world(s) longer to prevent them from reaching that point quicker, but those type of things are going to annoy and frustrate people to the point that they just quit long before reaching end game.

 

Doing an expansion pack isn't any sort of solution. It's barely even a band-aid. Now days so many people play MMOs the same way they play a single player game, ie they get what they can out of it and then move onto the next game. That desire to stick around and hang with an MMO doesn't really exist anymore when it comes to the masses because we/they constantly have something seeking their attention. There's always another game to go to, another movie to watch, tv series to consume, etc, etc.

 

There is no "fixing" TOR. The genre as a whole is in a bad place at the moment. This type/style of game is becoming less and less viable. We'll probably continue to see online RPGs in the future, but not on the traditional scale of an MMO. In other words you'll eventually start seeing alot more games like Phantasy Star Online than World of Warcraft.

 

Anyways though this all kind of circles back around to the point that you don't know what you're talking about. You don't work in the video game industry and you constantly pull assumptions out of your *** about stuff you think you know about. That is often times one of the most annoying things about gamers, ie constantly assuming things without actually knowing.

[Nemmar]

You're assuming that everbody who plays TOR or even the majority would buy the expansion pack, when that's not the case. Expansion packs are lucky if they get a 50% adoption rate. Often times when it comes to things like expansion packs or DLC for games you're generally only seeing a 10 to 20% adoption rate.

 

Alot of people consider DLC to be over priced for games but in reality it's priced based on the amount of people they think will buy it, which a developer almost always low balls. It's even worse on consoles where first parties like Microsoft and Sony are getting a cut of all DLC, which ends up being yet another reason that DLC tends to be more expensive than people think it should be.

 

Besides all of that though you're still ignoring the fact that Bioware Austin does not have the resources to do what you're asking for. There staff just isn't capable of it.

 

EA isn't going to dump a bunch of new money into TOR in order for them to do an expansion pack. TOR was/is the most expensive video game ever made (costing over 100 million) and it didn't do the buisiness that EA wanted it to, however after going F2P it has become more successful but not to the point where they're going to spend more money on it. They want to keep it exactly where it's at because where it's at is profitable for them and they don't want to mess with that.

 

Among other things you seem to be under the impression that an expansion pack would "fix" things, but it's not the lack of content that is a problem or the thing that drives people away from the game. There are dozens of things wrong with TOR's base game. An expansion isn't going to fix those things.

 

The devs behind TOR have always been so afraid of people burning through their content or getting to the point that they have nothing to do that they do/add all these things to keep the player in the world(s) longer to prevent them from reaching that point quicker, but those type of things are going to annoy and frustrate people to the point that they just quit long before reaching end game.

 

Doing an expansion pack isn't any sort of solution. It's barely even a band-aid. Now days so many people play MMOs the same way they play a single player game, ie they get what they can out of it and then move onto the next game. That desire to stick around and hang with an MMO doesn't really exist anymore when it comes to the masses because we/they constantly have something seeking their attention. There's always another game to go to, another movie to watch, tv series to consume, etc, etc.

 

There is no "fixing" TOR. The genre as a whole is in a bad place at the moment. This type/style of game is becoming less and less viable. We'll probably continue to see online RPGs in the future, but not on the traditional scale of an MMO. In other words you'll eventually start seeing alot more games like Phantasy Star Online than World of Warcraft.

 

Anyways though this all kind of circles back around to the point that you don't know what you're talking about. You don't work in the video game industry and you constantly pull assumptions out of your *** about stuff you think you know about. That is often times one of the most annoying things about gamers, ie constantly assuming things without actually knowing.

 

I dont know what the point of your post is. All you are saying is that an expansion isnt going to happen because the game is beyond redemption. In short that the game is dead already.

In all likelyhood i agree, but in no way does it change the fact that we should deliver the message that an expansion is desired and that it would extend the life of the game. But you are right in saying that the game is not gonna survive with this pace of content. In short, EA is the one giving up on this game, not the fans.

 

The definition of impossible is lack of imagination and incentive. I am delivering motivation to Bioware/EA. I want to believe, and the best way to make people believe is to show considerable commitment towards the game. But i know EA doesnt understand how to run MMO's, of this i already knew. That is why i am here trying to give them a nudge in the right direction, wether its hopeless or not.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Nemmar

[Darth-Obvious]

I dont know what the point of your post is. All you are saying is that an expansion isnt going to happen because the game is beyond redemption. In short that the game is dead already.

In all likelyhood i agree, but in no way does it change the fact that we should deliver the message that an expansion is desired and that it would extend the life of the game. But you are right in saying that the game is not gonna survive with this pace of content. In short, EA is the one giving up on this game, not the fans.

 

The definition of impossible is lack of imagination and incentive. I am delivering motivation to Bioware/EA. I want to believe, and the best way to make people believe is to show considerable commitment towards the game. But i know EA doesnt understand how to run MMO's, of this i already knew. That is why i am here trying to give them a nudge in the right direction, wether its hopeless or not.

 

I don't understand the point of your post.

 

You know it's futile but yet keep going on about it. If anything you're making things worse, not better. It's like you're trying to build a sense of hope but all it is false hope which means the disappointment is going to be even greater.

You're also not motivating them or nudging them in the right direction either because you're expecting/demanding too much out of them rather than giving them a realistic goal or something that's maybe slightly beyond realistic.

 

Those would be good ideas. That is the type of stuff they're looking for, but you and/or people like you never suggest those things. You always go for "the sky is the limit" approach when it comes to the things you ask for.

 

I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about in terms of offering suggestions or advice.

 

Worlds like Corellia and Belsavis become a nightmare in terms of navigating around them. Part of this is to do with the fact that they're so massive compared to other planets and much like Hoth and Tatooine they're both filled with vast stretches of nothingness. However unlike Hoth and Tatooine, Belsavis and Corellia are filled with numerous paths that are blocked off by blast doors or a wall/fence in some cases. These often result in a player navigating to a certain point only to find that they have to go all the way back around somewhere they just came from. Needless to say it causes alot of frustration and only exists to keep the player in the world/game longer.

 

^The above is something that could easily be addressed by simply removing/deleting the blast doors from a number of environment locations. It doesn't require any new texture or mesh work. It's something that isn't time or resource intensive for them to do. THAT is an example of a "good" thing that they could do. Now it's not adding any additional content to the game however it's the type of thing that improves the quality of the game and gains you good will with players.

 

If they did a dozen or so things like that within a single update it would be seen as a huge improvement and have a positive effect.

 

One of the best things they (or people offering suggestions) can do is to look at what content already exists in the game that can be manipulated in some way that doesn't cost a lot of time and money for them to do. There's tons of unused art assets (clothing, weapons, etc) that the player(s) don't have access to that they could be doing stuff with.

 

Make the vanilla game better. Have it be a place that people want to spend time in and keep coming back to. Once you do that, then start expanding more and more. TOR isn't lacking in content, it's more that the content isn't always enjoyable to play through. They have a Legacy system in place that encourages people to play the game multiple times through but they don't have a game that enough people want to play multiple times through.

[caronome]

For me, I really care about content per year. EVE does two expansions per year; GW2 does 26 two week cycles. WoW does an expansion every 18 months which is way too slow.

 

I see no difference in a feature every week versus a "box" of 39 features every 9 months. I think smaller content every 4-8 weeks makes sense.

 

Although at some point we need to do the raise level cap, reset gear thing.

[Nemmar]

For me, I really care about content per year. EVE does two expansions per year; GW2 does 26 two week cycles. WoW does an expansion every 18 months which is way too slow.

 

I see no difference in a feature every week versus a "box" of 39 features every 9 months. I think smaller content every 4-8 weeks makes sense.

 

Although at some point we need to do the raise level cap, reset gear thing.

 

Wow also does 4 content patches between those 18 months btw.

 

Actually look at the recent patch FFXIV is getting: Housing, new raids, new dungeons, more story, more areas, etc. They already announced a boxed expansion for the future aswell. That gives customers confidance to sub.

I wish EA/Bioware understood that. ^^

[Darth-Obvious]

Wow also does 4 content patches between those 18 months btw.

 

That's not a problem for them considering that they (Blizzard) is pulling in nearly a billion dollars a year from that game.

 

When TOR makes that kind of money then expect it to do the same.

 

Actually look at the recent patch FFXIV is getting: Housing, new raids, new dungeons, more story, more areas, etc. They already announced a boxed expansion for the future aswell.

 

Square believes they can get more money out of FF14. They already dumped so much money into it that the feel like they can't abandon it. They also feel like it has the ability to become as successful as FF11 was for them. That however isn't possible.

 

I don't think you understand that MMOs just aren't at the point anymore where they're worth dumping more and more money in. There aren't enough people willing to keep paying for them. People consume MMOs like single player games now and are eagerly ready to move onto the next thing.

 

That gives customers confidance to sub. I wish EA/Bioware understood that. ^^

 

Every MMO gives people confidence early on. There are dozens of things they talked about for TOR that never happened.

 

Let's say I had hundreds of millions of dollars and for whatever reason decided to invest a 100 million into TOR in order to make the vanilla game better, add new content, etc, etc. It would be fighting a losing battle. The game's rate of profit wouldn't support it.

 

And note even if that money made TOR good and a game worth subbing for or whatever you/they wouldn't see a drastic increase in subs. People have already made up their mind about TOR and like I said earlier people don't play/view MMOs the same way anymore.

[Zorvan]

Every MMO with the exception of WoW is basically in the same place.

 

If you want to know what to expect from the future of an MMO in terms of content, look at what their out put has been. For example with TOR, what type of content have they released since the game came out? What size was that content, how frequently did it come out, what did it offer, change, etc, etc? Now look at any other MMO out there like Star Trek, Champions, GW2, etc, etc, and realize that everything with (again) the exception of WoW basically put out the same amount of content, at the same rate, and with a similar pricing model and/or what they offer to purchase.

 

They're all like that because they're all run by small teams that don't have much of a budget to work with and they all generally handle things the same way because that's what they have to do to survive.

 

TOR is only in as much trouble as any other F2P game out there. They all do well enough due to microtransactions . In other words TOR is only as in as much trouble as it's (non-WoW) competition.

 

Everquest 1 and 2 both put out regular full size expansions with $30-$40 price tags ( $60-$70 for "digital CE's" ). So if you're saying SWToR is worse off than a 14 and 8 year old game known for their small populations, that's pretty sad indeed.

 

Then again, EvE Oline puts out massive expansions FOR FREE, so there goes the "they need the money" argument as well, unless SWToR is worse off than EvE Online as well. EvE has subs ( like ToR), EvE has a cash shop ( like ToR), plus EvE even let's players pay for their gametime with ingame credits ( people in EvE can literally play for free ). Yet EvE manages to put out massive free content. And EvE has what is supposedly a smaller playerbase than SWToR on top of that. Go figure.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Zorvan

[annabethchase]

That's no enough.

 

There aren't enough people playing TOR and/or willing to buy an expansion for that to be profitable.

 

If that were actually a viable option they would do it.

 

They don't have the money or resources to do a "massive" TOR expansion.

 

Then how did Lord of the Rings Online do a full scope expansion with about 1/4th the playerbase in both initial sales and average subscribers/revenue once F2P? Then they've also done several more epansions I'd consider half scope or greater, well above what our expansions in TOR have been.

[annabethchase]

For me, I really care about content per year. EVE does two expansions per year; GW2 does 26 two week cycles. WoW does an expansion every 18 months which is way too slow.

 

I see no difference in a feature every week versus a "box" of 39 features every 9 months. I think smaller content every 4-8 weeks makes sense.

 

Although at some point we need to do the raise level cap, reset gear thing.

 

Ok, well tell me if it's likely we'll get the following volume of changes in the next 18 months to equal what a box-size expansion for TOR should bring. I'd suggest something similar to this:

 

1) 1 volume similar in scope to volume 3 of class stories, the important part being the story and cutscenes, not necessarily needing elaborate quests into unique locations. the locations can be shared with other classes, just the story needs to be truly unique like in 1.0 and nothing like Makeb.

2) a couple of pve mini-games (Dejarik, Sabac, racing, pazak, etc.).

3) 3-4 planets from existing SW Cannon or tied into the new movie, nothing simply made up

4) 1 new companion per class, focusing on alien species since they are under-represented in game currently

5) Jedi and Sith council to mean something. Cutscenes & missions from there, a conversation questline similar to companions but with characters like Satele Shan. Equivalent system for non-force users as well.

6) Major characters from the tie-in novels & comics to have important roles in game

7) The emperor's story to continue and lead into the next phase of ops

8) 6 flashpoints to highlight aspects of Star Wars lore that aren't as directly tied into the game, for example Spice Mines, Something underwater on Naboo, A visit to the Shadowlands of Kashykk, you could probably make an intriguing Flashpoint out of nearly anything in the lore.

9) An apprentice system where you train up your appropriate companion from a learner to a master

10) 2-3 Solo tuned flashpoints via a multiple companion at once system. Mechanics in these would obviously be designed around this fact and would give rewards that would enhance solo play and nothing else, focused on the Presence stat

11) 4-6 new ops. Random boss mechanics that are not pre-established at exact times and require 10 minutes of explanation. Instead we'd go at it and learn by doing, not by talking.

12) toggle to auto-skip space stations at Legacy Level 50, except when required for the quest. This is just 1 QOL example of which we'd need many.

13) Flashpoint group size for new expansion to be 6. Que would require 1 tank, 1 healer, and 3 dps. The 6th would be a dps if available or a companion if not.

14) Decrease in challenge for Story Mode ops to shave off massive amounts of time. The goal would be to make it so easy that everyone who levels to endgame could complete it without ever watching a strategy video of any kind. This would be so that everyone can enjoy grouping and having fun with the game, not everything needs to be a challenge. Expected completion time should be within 1 hour. We need to be able to convert F2P types into revenue generators via CC's or Subs and inclusion in the largest group content is a prime way to do so.

 

15) PvP stuff, I could obviously write a huge other list here as well.

 

As you can see, that's a large cross section of PvE content that would be a reasonable request for TOR's age and revenue. It's the kind of content load needed over the next 18 months to keep the game from withering away.

[Darth-Obvious]

Everquest 1 and 2 both put out regular full size expansions with $30-$40 price tags ( $60-$70 for "digital CE's" ). So if you're saying SWToR is worse off than a 14 and 8 year old game known for their small populations, that's pretty sad indeed.

 

Then how did Lord of the Rings Online do a full scope expansion with about 1/4th the playerbase in both initial sales and average subscribers/revenue once F2P? Then they've also done several more epansions I'd consider half scope or greater, well above what our expansions in TOR have been.

 

I don't think either of you have any clue the difference in budget that you're comparing.

 

If you took the budget of an EQ or LOTRO expansion and used it for TOR you wouldn't get nearly the same amount of content out of TOR. You'd only get a small fraction of something. TOR's cost to output ratio is much higher than those games. What a shock right? I mean you'd think MMOs that are that old would still be expensive to develop for huh? Like you know how EQ and LOTRO have all those scripted story cutscenes with branching dialogue/outcomes and/or the same level of production values as TOR does?

 

One of the mistakes TOR made early on was that they built a game that was expensive to develop content for whether that was the vanilla content or future content. EA/Bioware thought it was worth the risk figuring TOR would be making WoW money. TOR didn't do that sadly and is now in this sort of unfortunate limbo.

 

The primary thing that inflated development cost for TOR was player choice. Going in they didn't realize how expensive it would be to do multiple outcomes or branching dialogue when it came to cutscenes. If everything were linear or became more linear, meaning removing the option of different outcomes and multi choice dialogue then it would become cheaper for them to develop stuff. Of course people would throw a fit if they did that (which would be par for the course) but they (Bioware) kind of screwed themselves over with the way they developed the game because now they have a game that's expensive/difficult to develop for with a development team that's really no longer capable of supporting that style of development.

 

Going F2P basically broke their design. Like I said earlier they built the game in such a way that they thought it was going to make millions and when it didn't, it couldn't really support the type of future development it (and fans) needed.

 

Then again, EvE Oline puts out massive expansions FOR FREE, so there goes the "they need the money" argument as well, unless SWToR is worse off than EvE Online as well. EvE has subs ( like ToR), EvE has a cash shop ( like ToR), plus EvE even let's players pay for their gametime with ingame credits ( people in EvE can literally play for free ). Yet EvE manages to put out massive free content. And EvE has what is supposedly a smaller playerbase than SWToR on top of that. Go figure.

 

EVE operates in a world all it's own. It has an economy that is unlike anything else and can easily support the things it does. TOR isn't in remotely the same area.

[Darth-Obvious]

Ok, well tell me if it's likely we'll get the following volume of changes in the next 18 months to equal what a box-size expansion for TOR should bring. I'd suggest something similar to this:

 

As you can see, that's a large cross section of PvE content that would be a reasonable request for TOR's age and revenue. It's the kind of content load needed over the next 18 months to keep the game from withering away.

 

It's actually not reasonable, or feasible rather. The team at Bioware Austin isn't big enough to put out that amount of content in that amount of time, and it would be way, WAY more expensive to do than you're thinking.

 

Looking over the list of things you posted I could just see the millions adding up, ie "okay that would take this many man hours, at this amount of cost. Alright this would cost about this much, etc, etc."

 

Now if you got rid of all the story stuff or a large amount of the cutscenes, dialogue, etc, that you're expecting then yeah it's more feasible.

 

Take a second to stop and think about other MMOs. Actually take a look at the type of content they are putting out when they expand the game. Now, what and/or how do they handle their story stuff? What is the ratio to cutscenes, text boxes, in-world voice overs, etc, etc? Look at the way upcoming MMOs like ESO and Wildstar handle story. Do any of them handle story even remotely in the same style or presentation that TOR does? No, because it's an insane undertaking for an MMO. There's a very good reason why TOR is the only MMO that handled things the way it did and why nothing else did or is in terms of upcoming MMOs.

 

Me, I personally love the story content in TOR. The class quests, the choices, the companions, all of it, and want more and as much as possible. However I completely understand why I'm never going to see it expand the way I'd like to. For instance I'd love to see all those things you listed, but know it's never going to happen, especially not in 18 months.

[annabethchase]

One point, as we're all speculating based mostly on what other games have revealed, but one very key piece of information was that the voice acting and cutscenes were not breaking the bank. They are the kind of work that go into every Bioware game and were one of the core competencies of what Bioware brought to the table.

 

So knowing that, I can only speculate that the true cost ruiner all goes back to the game engine and how it is used in building environments and systems. I have no technical insight here, but shouldn't they be getting better at using it now that they've had years of hands on experience with it?

[Darth-Obvious]

One point, as we're all speculating based mostly on what other games have revealed, but one very key piece of information was that the voice acting and cutscenes were not breaking the bank. They are the kind of work that go into every Bioware game and were one of the core competencies of what Bioware brought to the table.

 

It was stated at GDC (last year I think it was) that voice acting was not the expensive part of TOR like many suspected but that choices were ultimately what drove the cost up. Having to do cutscenes multiple times with different outcomes. This also includes any run of the mill quest too due to as the order of what lines are said is up to player including the option to refuse the quest.

 

So while the voice acting isn't expensive, the cutscenes are because the majority of them involve choice.

 

So knowing that, I can only speculate that the true cost ruiner all goes back to the game engine and how it is used in building environments and systems. I have no technical insight here, but shouldn't they be getting better at using it now that they've had years of hands on experience with it?

 

Who exactly has had years of experience working on it? There's almost nobody there now who was working on the game back when it launched.

 

It's also been well documented that the Hero Engine (the tech the game was built on) is pretty awful/terrible and makes a number of things very difficult or completely impossible in some cases. Note that this tech was so bad that ESO was being built on it at one point before they decided to ditch it completely.

 

It'll probably be another year or two before it becomes more cost effective to develop for TOR if even then.

 

Looking at upcoming MMOs like Wildstar and EQ Next it's obvious that they are trying to avoid certain mistakes that alot of MMOs of the past made. One of which is working with tech and/or systems that are more flexible instead of backing themselves into a corner like TOR (and others) did where they basically completely locked themselves into a certain situation with no wiggle room. For example TOR can't have any PVP matches that are any bigger than they are now, nor can they add playable races with any sort of height differences like Wookies or Jawas. Those are just two of many examples of things they can't do because of decisions they made early on.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Darth-Obvious

[Arkerus]

Ok, well tell me if it's likely we'll get the following volume of changes in the next 18 months to equal what a box-size expansion for TOR should bring. I'd suggest something similar to this:

 

1) 1 volume similar in scope to volume 3 of class stories, the important part being the story and cutscenes, not necessarily needing elaborate quests into unique locations. the locations can be shared with other classes, just the story needs to be truly unique like in 1.0 and nothing like Makeb.

2) a couple of pve mini-games (Dejarik, Sabac, racing, pazak, etc.).

3) 3-4 planets from existing SW Cannon or tied into the new movie, nothing simply made up

4) 1 new companion per class, focusing on alien species since they are under-represented in game currently

5) Jedi and Sith council to mean something. Cutscenes & missions from there, a conversation questline similar to companions but with characters like Satele Shan. Equivalent system for non-force users as well.

6) Major characters from the tie-in novels & comics to have important roles in game

7) The emperor's story to continue and lead into the next phase of ops

8) 6 flashpoints to highlight aspects of Star Wars lore that aren't as directly tied into the game, for example Spice Mines, Something underwater on Naboo, A visit to the Shadowlands of Kashykk, you could probably make an intriguing Flashpoint out of nearly anything in the lore.

9) An apprentice system where you train up your appropriate companion from a learner to a master

10) 2-3 Solo tuned flashpoints via a multiple companion at once system. Mechanics in these would obviously be designed around this fact and would give rewards that would enhance solo play and nothing else, focused on the Presence stat

11) 4-6 new ops. Random boss mechanics that are not pre-established at exact times and require 10 minutes of explanation. Instead we'd go at it and learn by doing, not by talking.

12) toggle to auto-skip space stations at Legacy Level 50, except when required for the quest. This is just 1 QOL example of which we'd need many.

13) Flashpoint group size for new expansion to be 6. Que would require 1 tank, 1 healer, and 3 dps. The 6th would be a dps if available or a companion if not.

14) Decrease in challenge for Story Mode ops to shave off massive amounts of time. The goal would be to make it so easy that everyone who levels to endgame could complete it without ever watching a strategy video of any kind. This would be so that everyone can enjoy grouping and having fun with the game, not everything needs to be a challenge. Expected completion time should be within 1 hour. We need to be able to convert F2P types into revenue generators via CC's or Subs and inclusion in the largest group content is a prime way to do so.

 

15) PvP stuff, I could obviously write a huge other list here as well.

 

As you can see, that's a large cross section of PvE content that would be a reasonable request for TOR's age and revenue. It's the kind of content load needed over the next 18 months to keep the game from withering away.

 

OR...

 

The company could release smaller versions of your above word orgy in smaller, more manageable chunks. We get content faster and the company benefits from a sustained customer base.

 

BUt some of those ideas are terrible anyway. FP upped to 6 people? You're kidding right? Due to class imbalances its hard enough to get 4 people together. Don't be ridiculous.

 

Tie to in the novels? You mean the EU garbage that doens't mean anything. How about NO.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Arkerus

[Arkerus]

One point, as we're all speculating based mostly on what other games have revealed, but one very key piece of information was that the voice acting and cutscenes were not breaking the bank. They are the kind of work that go into every Bioware game and were one of the core competencies of what Bioware brought to the table.

 

So knowing that, I can only speculate that the true cost ruiner all goes back to the game engine and how it is used in building environments and systems. I have no technical insight here, but shouldn't they be getting better at using it now that they've had years of hands on experience with it?

 

Ugh. Typical armchair development with zero proof to back up anything you say. Its painfully obvious you have zero real world project management experience...or development experience for that matter. Speculation and non sensical assumptions do not a conversation make.

[TOR-tanic]

Ugh. Typical armchair development with zero proof to back up anything you say. Its painfully obvious you have zero real world project management experience...or development experience for that matter. Speculation and non sensical assumptions do not a conversation make.

Same could be said about the defenders.

 

[McSomething]

Tie to in the novels? You mean the EU garbage that doens't mean anything. How about NO.

This game is as much EU as any novel....

[OddballEasyEight]

3) 3-4 planets from existing SW Cannon or tied into the new movie, nothing simply made up

 

Ooooh, I don't know about that one... we will run out of content pretty darned fast if you demand that they be of existing SW Canon (especially depending on how you regard canon).

If that's the movies, then there are 19 to choose from (and I am counting large asteroids and moons here too), of which 4 are already in the game, 12 make little to no sense to include (either not discovered yet, makes sense for only one faction but not the other or even under massive geological catastrophies at the time of the game)... so that leaves 3 planets from the movies.

That'd be enough for one expansion then by your reckoning...

 

Now, if you want to include the EU, then all bets are off since alot of the planets included in the game so far are from the EU, just because you haven't heard of them, doesn't mean they were made up...