I am Roleplaying a Developer. Should I get fired or promoted?

[PapaRodin]

Sure, subjectivly seen, all of those can be beaten, have been beaten by me, but that hasn't much value because that can mean that you were the better player or had the advantage otherwise.

 

Looking at just what the classes are able to do, Madness is in almost every case at the disadvantage.

If you have much success as Madness that is certainly good for you, but I can guarantee that you would fair much much better with almost every other spec/class.

[Sabatiel]

Sure, subjectivly seen, all of those can be beaten, have been beaten by me, but that hasn't much value because that can mean that you were the better player or had the advantage otherwise.

 

Looking at just what the classes are able to do, Madness is in almost every case at the disadvantage.

If you have much success as Madness that is certainly good for you, but I can guarantee that you would fair much much better with almost every other spec/class.

 

i just couldn't agree more

[Majspuffen]

The reason why I compared 2.0 Lethality Operative with 1.7 Balance Shadow was because back in 1.7, Balance Shadows were viable and Lethality Operatives were not. If Bioware wants to fix this spec they have to know what it was that they broke. I also think we can disregard animations, as that is purely subjective taste for us both.

 

But, I'll start my reply by further comparing 1.7 Balance Shadows with 2.0 Lethality Operatives because I believe that you are wrong. The only thing that Lethality Operatives have that is better than Balance Shadows is their 4s stun that is on a 30s CD, as opposed to ours that is on a 1m CD. Otherwise, if you look at the complete package, Balance Shadows have more flexible cooldowns that can be used for more things. Take Force Wave as an example, in a Warzone like Huttball. It can be used to push people into fire, it can be used to push people into the pit or it can be used to push people away so that you can intercept the ball. Outside of huttball it is still very useful. A rage juggernaut charges you and you pop Force Wave just as he lands, and you've saved yourself from one smash unless he wastes his second gap closer. If that is the case, you can always Force Shroud and negate the damage from one Smash, which puts you at an advantage.

 

You can also use Force Wave offensively. You can use it to interrupt casts, and in that scenario I am very thankful of the short pushback range. We also have our vanish stun which can be used to interrupt casts, as well as our normal interrupt on a 12s CD. We can also use force Wave to push people out of Stealth, and because of the range and wide radius it happens that you sometimes push people out of stealth on accident.

 

Force Speed is better than lolroll as well, in my honest opinion. Lolroll is extremely useful for reaching objective points fast... but it is a crap gap closer. Force Speed can be used for many things, and as I've already said it is my favourite gap closer in the game.

 

2 Second Root on a Nine Second CD. Nice meant, but you should mention that this valuable CC is tied in onto a valueable Damage Ability. I am not sure about you but I would hate it to hold damage back just so I can keep up when it counts, wouldn't you? In 1 on 1's, that may be a little different but then again, if you are 1 on 1ing as Madness, you are doing something wrong.

 

Valuable damage? In PvP? It's a DoT, the damage isn't that valuable. Saving the cooldown in order to pin down a target that is trying to escape from you nets you more damage than what the actual DoT would if you just cast it whenever you want. Besides, the cooldown is shorter than its duration. 9 seconds is not that long. In fact, if I had to choose, the damage portion or the 2s root portion of the ability, I'd choose the 2s root.

 

Also, Balance Shadows are still pretty great in 1v1s but that doesn't mean the class is okay. In 1.7, Balance Shadows were among the best 1v1ers in the game. Again, I myself won a 1v1 tournament on my guild as a Balance Shadow. If you want proof, here it is: http://www.twitch.tv/veerne/b/387435113 (I don't really like sharing this, seeing as I was nervous as hell and made plenty of mistakes on my way to the finals... but hell, that is just further proof of how damn good the spec actually was.)

 

We already would have Force Lightning for that. Also, following your reasoning, we should ask Bioware to let go of the Root from Sewer Force becase it is detrimental to our effectiveness in PVP because it rids us from an possibly otherwise optional way to keep our Enemys pinned down. See what I did there?

 

I see what you did there. You pulled a "the death star was an inside job." What I meant was that: If Project became as valuable to us as Shadow Strike was in 1.7, we wouldn't save it for those opportunities when we're unable to reach the target. We'd use it when it procs. Sever Force is completely different and rewards you for playing smart. For PvP, the instant damage from Shadow Strike in 1.7 was much more VALUABLE than the damage from Sever Force.

 

 

Anyways, I'm getting tired of arguing about Project vs Shadow Strike. I maintain that Project needs no buff. You yourself seem to hate Shadow Strike because it requires so much to be usable... and I agree on that part. Shadow Strike is a very badly designed ability. Not because of its positional requirement, but because of it's usefulness being tied to procs.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Majspuffen

[PapaRodin]

The reason why I compared 2.0 Lethality Operative with 1.7 Balance Shadow was because back in 1.7, Balance Shadows were viable and Lethality Operatives were not. If Bioware wants to fix this spec they have to know what it was that they broke. I also think we can disregard animations, as that is purely subjective taste for us both.

 

But, I'll start my reply by further comparing 1.7 Balance Shadows with 2.0 Lethality Operatives because I believe that you are wrong. The only thing that Lethality Operatives have that is better than Balance Shadows is their 4s stun that is on a 30s CD, as opposed to ours that is on a 1m CD. Otherwise, if you look at the complete package, Balance Shadows have more flexible cooldowns that can be used for more things. Take Force Wave as an example, in a Warzone like Huttball. It can be used to push people into fire, it can be used to push people into the pit or it can be used to push people away so that you can intercept the ball. Outside of huttball it is still very useful. A rage juggernaut charges you and you pop Force Wave just as he lands, and you've saved yourself from one smash unless he wastes his second gap closer. If that is the case, you can always Force Shroud and negate the damage from one Smash, which puts you at an advantage.

 

You can also use Force Wave offensively. You can use it to interrupt casts, and in that scenario I am very thankful of the short pushback range. We also have our vanish stun which can be used to interrupt casts, as well as our normal interrupt on a 12s CD. We can also use force Wave to push people out of Stealth, and because of the range and wide radius it happens that you sometimes push people out of stealth on accident.

 

Force Speed is better than lolroll as well, in my honest opinion. Lolroll is extremely useful for reaching objective points fast... but it is a crap gap closer. Force Speed can be used for many things, and as I've already said it is my favourite gap closer in the game.

 

 

 

Valuable damage? In PvP? It's a DoT, the damage isn't that valuable. Saving the cooldown in order to pin down a target that is trying to escape from you nets you more damage than what the actual DoT would if you just cast it whenever you want. Besides, the cooldown is shorter than its duration. 9 seconds is not that long. In fact, if I had to choose, the damage portion or the 2s root portion of the ability, I'd choose the 2s root.

 

Also, Balance Shadows are still pretty great in 1v1s but that doesn't mean the class is okay. In 1.7, Balance Shadows were among the best 1v1ers in the game. Again, I myself won a 1v1 tournament on my guild as a Balance Shadow. If you want proof, here it is: http://www.twitch.tv/veerne/b/387435113 (I don't really like sharing this, seeing as I was nervous as hell and made plenty of mistakes on my way to the finals... but hell, that is just further proof of how damn good the spec actually was.)

 

 

 

I see what you did there. You pulled a "the death star was an inside job." What I meant was that: If Project became as valuable to us as Shadow Strike was in 1.7, we wouldn't save it for those opportunities when we're unable to reach the target. We'd use it when it procs. Sever Force is completely different and rewards you for playing smart. For PvP, the instant damage from Shadow Strike in 1.7 was much more VALUABLE than the damage from Sever Force.

 

 

Anyways, I'm getting tired of arguing about Project vs Shadow Strike. I maintain that Project needs no buff. You yourself seem to hate Shadow Strike because it requires so much to be usable... and I agree on that part. Shadow Strike is a very badly designed ability. Not because of its positional requirement, but because of it's usefulness being tied to procs.

 

Ignoring the fact that you are trying to tell me how to play this class (which is an insult in my eyes):

 

You aren't even noticing how very stupid your very first argument is?

 

It is good, is nice that balance was viable back in the day, but today it is not, because there are many things missing that were strong/potent back then while others got stronger, yet you ignore those facts. But I'm really tired of this. Keep on riding the nostalgia theme, but in regard of the very first question of this thread:

 

You should get fired because your point of view is one of the most terrible any developer can possibly have.

[sainik]

You should get fired because your point of view is one of the most terrible any developer can possibly have.

 

Relax, it is just a difference of opinion. Though I do feel that you are a bit too stubborn on the aspect of shadow strike, and I get that. I would be too, if I was forced to use an ability I do not like. I for one do not really think that you will be forced to use shadow strike in balance/madness, irrespective of our opinions . But can you atleast agree that we need more melee options to make use of the double bladed lightsaber we wield ?

[Majspuffen]

It is good, is nice that balance was viable back in the day, but today it is not, because there are many things missing that were strong/potent back then while others got stronger, yet you ignore those facts..

 

I do not ignore those facts, which is why I'm pushing for Bioware to *********** fix Balance. Going back to how the class operatied in 1.7 would be a good step because it was viable back then. If more is required, that can be thought of afterwards. I personally have no issue with the survivability of the class, nor sticking to targets. But I do have trouble killing stuff when there are heals present due to lack of any single-target burst. By the time I've begun to scratch a healer, I've run out of Force.

 

Apologies for the personal attack, but you yourself sounded pretty condescending in your own posts.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Majspuffen

[Sabatiel]

Devs have no intention to fix balance for shadows, it seems either they think its fine and meets their expectations or simply do not care.

 

Either way.. we got to like what we got or just find another class/spec to like..

Rolling a mando

Edited November 24, 2013 by Sabatiel

[Majspuffen]

I came up with a rather strong argument as to why Crush Spirit should be removed from a design p.o.v.

 

Currently, both Infiltration and Balance has a talent that increases our effectiveness below 30% hp. It is more fitting with Infiltration/Deception in my opinion, and it would work too in pvp seeing as infiltration is pretty viable as it is whereas Shadows need more single-target pressure.

 

Perhaps a proc for spinning strike would be better? That way we don't really get an additional keybind. Instead, we simply take the keybind we use at 30% and extend it so that we can use it more often.

[PapaRodin]

Relax, it is just a difference of opinion. Though I do feel that you are a bit too stubborn on the aspect of shadow strike, and I get that. I would be too, if I was forced to use an ability I do not like. I for one do not really think that you will be forced to use shadow strike in balance/madness, irrespective of our opinions . But can you atleast agree that we need more melee options to make use of the double bladed lightsaber we wield ?

 

It isn't about his love for shadow strike, that I can tolerate even though I can't understand it.

It is because his mind is clouded with his memorys from 1.7, which shows in every of his so called arguments.

[Sabatiel]

I came up with a rather strong argument as to why Crush Spirit should be removed from a design p.o.v.

 

Currently, both Infiltration and Balance has a talent that increases our effectiveness below 30% hp. It is more fitting with Infiltration/Deception in my opinion, and it would work too in pvp seeing as infiltration is pretty viable as it is whereas Shadows need more single-target pressure.

 

Perhaps a proc for spinning strike would be better? That way we don't really get an additional keybind. Instead, we simply take the keybind we use at 30% and extend it so that we can use it more often.

 

i reallt don't know why you hate taht talent. In blance tree thare are many less usefull to remove. As i said ealier i like this one nad i think it should remain.

e.g. FiB crit without crush spirit = 6000k

with= 6900k

that 900 even if only under 30% hp is still a big difference imo.

 

if you want to remove something let's start with these:

Lambaste

Pinning resolve

Mind warp

[PapaRodin]

Mind Warp or Mind Ward?

[sainik]

Mind ward is pretty decent, but it could use some improvements. And lambaste of course is pathetic. Edited November 24, 2013 by sainik

[sainik]

Devs have no intention to fix balance for shadows, it seems either they think its fine and meets their expectations or simply do not care.

 

I think it definitely meets their expectations, but the optimist that I am, I think they are going consider feedback and fix it. Even inspite of our disagreements, all of us think balance/madness needs fixing in terms of engagement and gameplay. So I am sure they will get to it, not now, but in the next expansion. Which could be a year from now. Well there is only so long one can remain optimistic....

 

Which is why they need to interact more with the community.

Edited November 24, 2013 by sainik

[PapaRodin]

I think Mind Wards Effect is pretty underwhelming on every classes that have it.

 

Pyrotech Mercenarys are especially bad at this, their dot protection is stronger, but only is active AFTER you used your cleanse. And even then it only lasts for six seconds.

 

I think those "Reduce Dot Damage" effects should be wiped from this game entirely. Because they only hit classes that aren't REALLY strong anyway, because they doesn't hit them that hard anyway, because they tend to be overlooked by everyone and because they could be replaced with something useful/interesting instead.

[sainik]

It is because his mind is clouded with his memorys from 1.7, which shows in every of his so called arguments

 

 

It is because he really liked that spec (and so did I). It is not as if any suggestions and arguments here will be taken word to word by the combat team, they have their own ideas about the spec (as they should), so there is no reason we should not be dramatic, drastic and nostalgic in our suggestions

 

I agree with the dot damage reduction part, they should probably be removed. It hits pure dot classes like balance pretty hard. But I actually prefer the pyro merc way of doing it (instead of a passive 15 % DR), because it requires some input on the part of the player. Good pyro mercs are real hard to duel against as balance, mainly because of this (combined with the fact that they have heavy armor), mind crush barely tickles them. So yeah I would like them removed, but if they have to include it, it must be active in some form, so that there is some window where dots could still hit hard.

[PapaRodin]

Nothing wrong with being dramatic, drastic and nostalgic. I fulfill all of those treats quite often myself.

What I don't do is let those things cloud my objective point of view.

 

Read what he is writing, all he is doing is praising how awesome Balance was back in 1.7, which may be true, but isn't helpful when talking about the current state of the game and the current problems Madness has.

 

Now one could say that looking back at things to figure out what was good/right is a good thing, but he is doing it wrong because he completly disregards the present while he does that and while looking for things that he has in his memory as good and useful, he ignores the worst problems of Madness while over dramatizing the not so big issues.

 

 

Now I may be overdramatizing a bit, but after reading over the last few pages again, and even though he has/had some good ideas, I am happy that he isn't the developer for this class/spec because someone with such an clouded and missguided point of view would ruin the game even more than it already is.

[Majspuffen]

Now one could say that looking back at things to figure out what was good/right is a good thing, but he is doing it wrong because he completly disregards the present while he does that and while looking for things that he has in his memory as good and useful, he ignores the worst problems of Madness while over dramatizing the not so big issues.

 

 

Now I may be overdramatizing a bit, but after reading over the last few pages again, and even though he has/had some good ideas, I am happy that he isn't the developer for this class/spec because someone with such an clouded and missguided point of view would ruin the game even more than it already is.

 

I have also said, more than once I think, that I think that the current Balance Shadow's survivability is fine. I dusted off my Shadow today just to confirm that I wasn't just talking bullcrap, and I did not feel less survivable on my Shadow than any other class. At the end of one match, I had died 6 times to 300k damage, whereas a Sentinel had died 7 times to 300k damage. Perhaps that means nothing, but Balance Shadows have really nice CDs to avoid damage and keep melee classes off of ourselves.

 

So I maintain that the two largest issues of Balance Shadows AS OF THIS MOMENT are our crap single-target pressure and our crap and uninspiring force regen.

 

And I hear your argument about Project, but I have to repeat: it is still useful. Today when I played, I found myself using Project, either when kiting or when I couldn't quite get into melee. I don't think it needs any buffs, simple as that. I want a proc for preferably Shadow Strike, but I'd happily accept Spinning Strike as well.

 

i reallt don't know why you hate taht talent. In blance tree thare are many less usefull to remove. As i said ealier i like this one nad i think it should remain.

e.g. FiB crit without crush spirit = 6000k

with= 6900k

that 900 even if only under 30% hp is still a big difference imo.

 

if you want to remove something let's start with these:

Lambaste

Pinning resolve

Mind warp

 

I don't mind my FiB crit hitting for 6k all the time if it meant I could do attacks that deal 4-5k single-target damage directly and more frequently. Also it's a boring gimmick; I'd rather have a reliable sustained damage no matter how much HP the target has. Also, it feels like this talent is only here because we lost access to Infiltration Tactics.

 

That's the reason I hate the talent really, nothing more, nothing less.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Majspuffen

[PapaRodin]

I have also said, more than once I think, that I think that the current Balance Shadow's survivability is fine. I dusted off my Shadow today just to confirm that I wasn't just talking bullcrap, and I did not feel less survivable on my Shadow than any other class. At the end of one match, I had died 6 times to 300k damage, whereas a Sentinel had died 7 times to 300k damage. Perhaps that means nothing, but Balance Shadows have really nice CDs to avoid damage and keep melee classes off of ourselves.

Thanks for your detailed information. Let me rephrase this part:

 

So, I have played this char I think I know a thing or two about after a very long time and went into a warzone. Not going to tell you which one but just bear with me. So, I played, and then it ended. Not going to tell you who won or how long it took, but I managed to do 300k damage while only having died 6 times! A Sentinel, who sure is OP because he is a sentinel, right? He managed to also do 300k Damage, but he died 7 times! That is so meaningful that I won't lose a word about anything else, like, enemies, healers, ranked or nonranked, how my gear is or anything else! But trust me, my information is completly legit!

 

So I maintain that the two largest issues of Balance Shadows AS OF THIS MOMENT are our crap single-target pressure and our crap and uninspiring force regen.

Since I can only work with the few pieces of information you have given us, let me say this. If you died six times, either you, your team, or both sucked. Or your enemies just overwhelmed you. Or you won very quick, but then dying six times should be an even worse achievement. But what am I saying, I don't know anything about that ominous game you played after a very long time that is supposed to show us how good the spec is supposed to be outside of its crap single target pressure.

 

And I hear your argument about Project, but I have to repeat: it is still useful. Today when I played, I found myself using Project, either when kiting or when I couldn't quite get into melee. I don't think it needs any buffs, simple as that. I want a proc for preferably Shadow Strike, but I'd happily accept Spinning Strike as well.

Needing to kite as a melee class, thus making you unable to DPS to the fullest is a sign of inferiority. If your enemy has let himself get kited by you, he either had no CDs ready or he sucked.

 

I don't mind my FiB crit hitting for 6k all the time if it meant I could do attacks that deal 4-5k single-target damage directly and more frequently. Also it's a boring gimmick; I'd rather have a reliable sustained damage no matter how much HP the target has. Also, it feels like this talent is only here because we lost access to Infiltration Tactics.

 

That's the reason I hate the talent really, nothing more, nothing less.

Double Strike deals very good damage for something that is just a filler thanks to its high crit damage and the high melee critchance Madness has. Not as stupid as other things, but more than reasonable, especially if backed up by dots and FIB. But yeah, you hate crit damage talents. How about we get rid of that too so you can have your shadow strike back?

 

I wanted to stop but I just can't.

[Majspuffen]

So, I have played this char I think I know a thing or two about after a very long time and went into a warzone. Not going to tell you which one but just bear with me. So, I played, and then it ended. Not going to tell you who won or how long it took, but I managed to do 300k damage while only having died 6 times! A Sentinel, who sure is OP because he is a sentinel, right? He managed to also do 300k Damage, but he died 7 times! That is so meaningful that I won't lose a word about anything else, like, enemies, healers, ranked or nonranked, how my gear is or anything else! But trust me, my information is completly legit!

 

History lesson then:

 

Played Balance Shadow since early 2012. Stopped playing the character when 2.0 hit because I was very frustrated with the changes, but somewhere mid-summer I picked up the character again. How much did I play? I can't rightly remember, but I did have full partisan pvp gear with several pieces of conqueror gear, so moderately at best. Then I took a long break from the game and I recently resubscribed.

 

My gear is partisan/conqueror. Mostly old augments unfortunately. The sentinel ought to have better gear, he is in my guild and is a fairly decent player I would say. I didn't screenshot the Warzone and can't remember the specifics of the game but we did win it. It was a voidstar if that is interesting to know. Also, I did more than just one Warzone.

 

I don't have any credentials aside from the 1v1 tournament that I won.

 

And it is my opinion that Balance Shadows does not lack tools for survivability. The 30% damage reduction when stunned was the best buff in terms of Survivability that we could've gotten, since in 1.7 (I'm sorry for mentioning it) the only complaint I had about Balance Shadows was our vulnerability to stuns.

 

Needing to kite as a melee class, thus making you unable to DPS to the fullest is a sign of inferiority. If your enemy has let himself get kited by you, he either had no CDs ready or he sucked.

 

No, it's called playing to your classes strength. YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO KITE OTHER CLASSES, should you use it against a marauder who would otherwise tear you to shreds if you both stood still? NAH, it is the GAME that is at fault! Give us more defenses because I can't be arsed to play the class to its full potential. Is that your reasoning?

 

Double Strike deals very good damage for something that is just a filler thanks to its high crit damage and the high melee critchance Madness has. Not as stupid as other things, but more than reasonable, especially if backed up by dots and FIB. But yeah, you hate crit damage talents. How about we get rid of that too so you can have your shadow strike back?

 

I don't hate crit damage talents, where did you get that from? Read my first post again, I want to keep all surge talents and I want Technique Mastery to be restored to the way it was pre-2.0 when it gave us a flat boost to crit. Balance Shadows needs it more now than ever. What I don't like is the extra damage in the execute phase, seeing as that rarely comes in handy in pvp. Also, how many times can you double strike before having to resort to saber strike?

Edited November 24, 2013 by Majspuffen

[PapaRodin]

You should have bothered to make a Screenshot then. Remember that for next time you want to underline your sayings with actual gameplay. Or even better, make a Youtube Video, I heard people love doing that even though I never liked that trend although it is useful at times.

 

Not sure what the gear is doing with you in terms of bolster so information about your stats in an PVP Enviroment would have been also helpful.

 

It sure speaks for you that you are able to kite a class that would otherwise kill you.

It speaks against Madness as a class/spec that you, as a melee class, are forced to kite another Melee class. Granted, Sentinels are OP bastards, but any other Melee would have ripped you apart while in melee range just as well.

 

Yeah, I made a little misstake in my thinking about the crit damage modifier, mixed it up with execute damage. Sorry about that, my headaches are getting so strong because of you that I can't brain much today anymore.

 

Only the Dots need increased Critchance to work with the selfhealing aspect. Melee has enough passive crit already and force attacks aren't used as much in Balance anyway.

[Majspuffen]

Yeah, I made a little misstake in my thinking about the crit damage modifier, mixed it up with execute damage. Sorry about that, my headaches are getting so strong because of you that I can't brain much today anymore.

 

To me it feels like we both want to take Balance in different directions. Judging by your comments about Rippling Force and Lambaste, it sounds like you want more emphasis on the AoE portion whereas I want less emphasis on the AoE portion in favour of more Single-target damage.

 

Each to their own, but the way I played Balance in the patch that you don't want to think about, was to play on the border. If I was to leap into the zerg and spam Whirling Blow I'd die really fast. The way I played was to plop Force in Balance, DoT up what I could and then chase specific targets and swap depending on the situation. I had the abilities to do so and to stay alive, and those abilities still work, despite the buffs to other classes. Perhaps not as well, but I am very curious to see how the Balance Shadow would perform if we did get the extra single-target damage that I desire in addition to better force regen.

[PapaRodin]

We have so many classes that are good at front row single target damage, especially bursty damage. Why add more to that, if you want to do meaningful single target damage while you dislike dots because they are just fluff to you, play deception.

[Majspuffen]

We have so many classes that are good at front row single target damage, especially bursty damage. Why add more to that, if you want to do meaningful single target damage while you dislike dots because they are just fluff to you, play deception.

 

Because it's not front row single target damage I'm looking for, I'm looking for a versatile class that can do a little bit of everything and Balance Shadows truly felt like a jack of all trades in 1.7 whereas now they are the kings of fluff damage. I never said I dislike DoTs, I dislike the chaotic nature of Lethality's Corrosive Grenade because it is uncontrolled and ruins other players mezzes whereas a Balance Shadow has more control of their DoTs seeing as they're single target.

 

Compare it to Shadow Priests in WoW. They have two DoTs and decent AoE, but they still have pretty mean single-target burst though it has some ramp up time. That burst can also be sacrificed in order to CC instead. Nice design that rewards active thinking and creativity. A spec like Infiltration is very straight-forward and I hate the over-reliance on stealth.

 

[Edit] Actually, the Shadow Priest comparison is brilliant in another regard as well. Why do we need two classes specialized for AoE DoTs? (Or in fact, 4 classes?)

 

Lethality Operatives should be the kings of AoE DoTs.

Pyrotechs can be the kings of Single-Target DoTs.

A Balance Shadow can be inbetween. As they were in my nostalgic fever dream.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Majspuffen

[PapaRodin]

Because it's not front row single target damage I'm looking for, I'm looking for a versatile class that can do a little bit of everything and Balance Shadows truly felt like a jack of all trades in 1.7 whereas now they are the kings of fluff damage. I never said I dislike DoTs, I dislike the chaotic nature of Lethality's Corrosive Grenade because it is uncontrolled and ruins other players mezzes whereas a Balance Shadow has more control of their DoTs seeing as they're single target.

Agreed on the part with the mezzes, but good players won't Mezz a dotted target.

Good players won't dot a mezzed target.

 

Compare it to Shadow Priests in WoW. They have two DoTs and decent AoE, but they still have pretty mean single-target burst though it has some ramp up time. That burst can also be sacrificed in order to CC instead. Nice design that rewards active thinking and creativity. A spec like Infiltration is very straight-forward and I hate the over-reliance on stealth.

 

So I should compare a Melee Dot Class with a Ranged Dot Class from another game? Touchy subject.

 

The Madness Assassin can be, if anything, compared with a Feral Druid. Maybe an Unholy DK without the Pet, but I like the Feral Druid better.for this.

[Majspuffen]

So I should compare a Melee Dot Class with a Ranged Dot Class from another game? Touchy subject.

 

The Madness Assassin can be, if anything, compared with a Feral Druid. Maybe an Unholy DK without the Pet, but I like the Feral Druid better.for this.

 

Feral Druid is a fair comparison, especially since Mists of Pandaria. They have access to knockback and they have lots of mobility and nice CC... and they play around DoTs! Of course, they have the option to hop into fat-stance to soak damage while DoTs tick but still... the 1.7 Balance Shadow was very similar to Feral druids this fancy 2.0 balance shadow? Not so much.