Burning your way through your enemies - Pyrotech PvE Guide

[paowee]

Hey mv what do you think of this one made by a guy named raging rondo http://42gaming.com/blog/raging-rondo-s-2-5-pyro-mercenary-guide.html .

 

just finished lethal operative and looking for something else to put

[MVaglin]

He's got the basics right, but think there are some details that he's getting wrong.

 

Can't see that pyro is more gear dependant than any other spec for instance. Also I don't like the spec he's running.

 

And he kinda misses to explain how the whole PPA thing works. He just says the goal is to proc PPA, but neglects to say that the double power shot will do it almost all of the time.

 

Also his video rotation fires rail shot way less than he should be able to, frequently has 4 gcds between railshots instead of 3.

[Kinslayer]

He's got the basics right, but think there are some details that he's getting wrong.

 

Can't see that pyro is more gear dependant than any other spec for instance. Also I don't like the spec he's running.

 

And he kinda misses to explain how the whole PPA thing works. He just says the goal is to proc PPA, but neglects to say that the double power shot will do it almost all of the time.

 

Also his video rotation fires rail shot way less than he should be able to, frequently has 4 gcds between railshots instead of 3.

 

I was going to say similar things and I would not recommend following it.

 

Don't like the spec either - I don't advise putting an extra point into hired muscle instead of upgraded arsenal because 2% more ranged crit is better than 1% of each given ~70% of your damage is ranged.

 

Also 2 points into system calibrations is a good way of not proccing PPA every 6 seconds which is supposedly a goal here. Not to mention as you said frequently has more than 3 GCDs between procs, sometimes even 5.

 

I didn't watch the entire thing but I didn't see Vent Heat being used once which is definitely not a good thing and thus had to use unload and rapid shot far too often.

[MaMoNeS]

I was wondering what should my crit rating be at ? I keep hearing all kinds of things from no crit to 240 crit rating. I have a arsenal merc and a Pyro merc....any help would be greatly appreciated

[MVaglin]

I'm going by the numbers odawwg has in his arsenal thread, suggesting 200-360 crit in 78 gear. Sitting at 248 myself, but don't mind going up to 300-ish.

[MaMoNeS]

I am sitting at 161 crit rating in order to add more crit I will have to sacrifice power ....will that hurt my dps? I have tried increasing my crit to 260 and I didn't see much improvement in my dps so I am reluctant giving up my power. Or I am just doing something wrong? Is probably me I just changed from arsenal to Pyro still trying to find a good rotation.

 

PS...I have enjoyed u guys info on Pyro it has been very helpful

[MVaglin]

Crit always directly competes against power in terms of stat budget, so if you increase crit, you'll always give up power.

 

But crit is tricky. Simulations suggest that you'll get the most out of it (in full 78 gear) somewhere between 200-350. But the difference isn't high enough that you'll see a noticable increase going from say 160 to 250. In fact you probably won't notice it at all, since it won't be higher than natural variance covering it up. So if you're comfortable with 160 crit, that's probably fine. If you trust the number crunchers, you can change one power mod for a crit one and your average dps will go up ever so slightly (if the sims are right).

[MaMoNeS]

Thank u

[Carlenux]

just wondering, ive been trying pyro with my brothers char thats undergeared, barely made up to 3,7k, i mean with the gear is fine, but ive been trying over and over that opener and it doesnt give me better results than this:

 

Pre-cast Fusion missile + TD + adrenal / RS + IM / power surge + Pshot + RS + EN + PS (until vent heat) and keep going

 

i dont see why starting with TD that would trigger combat immediatly when i can do a fusion missile cast before starting combat, eventually, you will enter combat with TD just like you do, but with 1 fusion missile up at the target... then use TSO on the next Fusion missile available.

[odawgg]

just wondering, ive been trying pyro with my brothers char thats undergeared, barely made up to 3,7k, i mean with the gear is fine, but ive been trying over and over that opener and it doesnt give me better results than this:

 

Pre-cast Fusion missile + TD + adrenal / RS + IM / power surge + Pshot + RS + EN + PS (until vent heat) and keep going

 

i dont see why starting with TD that would trigger combat immediatly when i can do a fusion missile cast before starting combat, eventually, you will enter combat with TD just like you do, but with 1 fusion missile up at the target... then use TSO on the next Fusion missile available.

 

The beef I have with using FM without TSO is that it doesn't make sense from a dps/heat standpoint which is what the merc priority system inherently revolves around. Any ability with a lower dps/heat than Power Shot becomes useless from a sustained dps standpoint

Edited January 3, 2014 by odawgg

[Carlenux]

The beef I have with using FM without TSO is that it doesn't make sense from a dps/heat standpoint which is what the merc priority system inherently revolves around. Any ability with a lower dps/heat than Power Shot becomes useless from a sustained dps standpoint

 

yeah but not using a casted ability as an opener is a mistake, i obviously cant do a parse as high as u and marisi because my merc gear is terrible, but my opener goes up to 5k and around 4.1k close to a minute (if done right) when comparing for example marisi parses, she makes it to like 4.6 and then down to 3.9 and just incredibly sustain that dps.... your theory on heat is right, if it was used on a rotation, but as an opener followed by a vent heat it is no problem, by the time the CD is back up at 30 seconds u use with TSO and you got 2 FM in... the opener is not sustaining, is giving u the biggest burst to sustain right after, i keep trying this opener Vs your opener, and the difference is noticeable, beside the gear, its usually 30-50 dps at the end of the fight.. give it a try with your gear and see.... For example, Electro net, 1.30 min CD, this means with your 4min fight you use it Three times... why wasting a GCD using Electro net as second in the rotation, delaying a possible Rail shot proc and other Dots, you can use it 10-15 seconds in the fight and the use would be the same. 3 per fight... what you think?

Edited January 3, 2014 by Carlenux

[odawgg]

Definitely something worth looking into, my guess is it would depend on length of encounter and where cds fall in that time frame. I see the logic you're following by ignoring heat values when vent heat is off cd...I'll try it out

[MVaglin]

Carl, do you think you can post a link to one of your parses where you use that opener? I'd be curious to take a look at it myself.

 

[odawgg]

so far my attempts haven't felt good with it...pushes me to vent heat so quickly which means I start using UL and rapid shots sooner, and then the final vent heat ends up being too long before end of encounter so I end up using more UL and rapid shots I feel. I will give it some more tries though, maybe just bad rng or something

[AgustusCaesar]

I think adding tso+ FM at the beginning be for the clock starts is a dps increase , and you don't have to wait for the full cast during the opener. ( just like casting orbital be for the fights starts )

 

My issue is with keep up dps on multi add fights. Like corrupter 0 and bestia .

 

Once your DFA , explosive dart, flame thrower. (aoe abilities ) Have been cast , What is the rotation? is it a hybrid of the single target rotation.?

Edited January 16, 2014 by AgustusCaesar

[Gyronamics]

Also, LordKantner's hybrid guide has been a lot of help. And he's been telling us Pyrotech (or assault specialist) is good for longer than anyone else.

 

I seem to recall posting this in both forums in May: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=644345

 

Then spending a long time explaining to a number of people how to proc Railshot exactly every 6 seconds instead of the widespread belief that Railshot procs were random. Those people then went on to have success with their dps in Pyro and made their own guides.

 

Nothing changed between then and now except dummies now lose health and can be armour debuffed. All of which I predicted would boost damage massively for Assault long before.

 

That and I left SWTOR for about 3 months.

 

Was amazed to hear that the spec had become popular but I still say the same thing I said then. It's always held back by the lack of its own armour debuff. If no one else brings one you need to be Arsenal to provide the debuff for the team or you will be an underperforming Pyro and everyone else will also do less damage.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Gyronamics

[MVaglin]

That's a thread I missed, or had forgotten about.

 

One thing did change between then and now though, there was a bug on railshot making it vent twice as much heat for mercenaries. While that's been fixed, that bug got a lot of players trying pyro. And when it was fixed, it still remained obvious that pyro was a stronger choice than arsenal, since even without the armor debuff, pyro was producing higher numbers.

 

The nw dummy has just widened the gap.

[Eksenia]

Hey.

 

Recently hit 55 with my merc. I come from a PT background as pyro pvp and I am intimately familiar with the spec as far as pvp goes. However I can not yet fathom, why is alacrity bad? Have I missed something major? This actually seems like the first class I play alacrity is useful for - I don't see any theoretical downsides but I have probably missed something.

 

Your enlightenment is appreciated.

 

Regards,

[MVaglin]

It has to do with the timing of the PPA proc. We're not 100% sure how the proc works, but what I've seen is that if you do your second power shot before the 6 second mark you won't get the proc, thus delaying rail shot.

 

So with more alacrity, your attack cycle will take less time and thus you'll miss the proc more often. Due to latency and lag you'll still not miss the proc every time, but when I was specced into the alacrity talent on tier 1, I had a noticeable difference in regards to the PPA proc.

[Gyronamics]

Alacrity lowers cast times.

 

6s is the lockout on the proc.

 

All casts are measured in 1.5s slots, 4 slots and the proc is open again.

 

PS procs at the end of its cast.

 

So what happens is the shorter you make your casts the worse PS lines up with the 6s lockout.

 

This is my typical sustained fire rotation which can be repeated infinitely:

 

Railshot 1.5s GCD

Rapid Shots 1.5s attack

Powershot 1.5s cast

Powershot 1.5s <- end of this Railshot will proc

Railshot

 

And so on. Depnding on heat Rapid shots can be swapped for IM.

 

We have two alacrity talents in Pyro and really I don't like them because while they make attacks faster the 6s lockout on procs does not change so the more alacrity you have the worse the synch between attacks and the proc.

 

Technically because we already have two alacrity talents our casts should not line up at all but it seems lag is in our favour here and the delay of lag allows the casts to proc at the right time.

 

Sometimes alacrity screws us and you have to use Unload or a third PS to pick the proc up again but this is rare and is not a major issue compared with the appalling RNG that is fishing for Arsenal procs.

[Kinslayer]

Yeah the 2% alacrity from Rapid Venting is useful to help circumvent lag and also because of the reduced cooldowns on VH and TSO that come with it but anything more is not really a good thing unless you have particularly high ping. I use 3% on my Commando for this reason and don't notice any more missed procs than I do on my Merc.

[Eksenia]

Ah! Of course! That explains a lot why I had issues with PPA proc after trying a different gear setup. I didn't even think about alacrity causing it...

 

Thanks a ton!

[GodDyr]

Sure - what I've been doing lately is:

 

Opener

TD, EN, Relic + Adrenal, IM, RS, PS, PS (even if proc), RS

 

Spam

TSO + FM, PS, PS, RS, TD, PS, PS, RS, IM, PS, PS, RS, PS, PS, PS, RS, TD + VH, PS, PS, RS

 

General Rotation

IM, PS, PS, RS, UL, PS, RS, TD, PS, PS, RS, (if heat > 19 Rapid), IM, PS (x2 if necessary), RS, UL, PS, RS, TD, PS, PS, RS, (if heat > 19 Rapid), IM, PS (x2 if necessary), RS, UL, PS, RS, TD, EN, Relic / Adrenal, PS (x2 if necessary), RS, IM, PS, PS, RS

 

It's basically the opener and then just cycling between spam and general rotation but there's a couple of things I think are worth mentioning. Firstly, the primary focus here is on proccing PPA as often as possible and with the possible exception of the very first proc I use RS as soon as possible every single time and prioritize it over every other ability. Secondly, this rotation is incredibly light on rapid shots - you should only have to use it once out of the possible 2 places, which is only 3 times in total from a 5 minute parse. And finally, I delay the 2nd adrenal and 3rd relic use slightly to maximize their benefit as I feel they are more useful being used when there's no need to manage heat through UL and rapid shots.

 

I've had a few things suggested to me which I'm yet to try out but for now this is what I've been using.

 

Hey guys i've been trying to research as much as i can about the pyrotech rotation/priority list and i've come across this guide and read the whole thing. Most of it makes sense to me, but I am sort of confused on the rotation that Kinslayer put up above.

What is the difference between the Spam and General rotation, and when do you use the Spam or General rotation? It was noted that you cycle between them, but I am confused on that statement could you help me get a better understatement of how that works? Thank you!

[Magsel]

U use the Spam when your VH (vent heat) is (almost) off CD (cooldown).

U use the General Rotation WHEN your VH is on CD.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Magsel

[GodDyr]

U use the Spam when your VH (vent heat) is (almost) off CD (cooldown).

U use the General Rotation WHEN your VH is on CD.

 

Oh okay thanks for clearing that up. At which point of the rotations do you transition between the spam and the general rotation? Do you transition after you use the vent heat and immediately go into the general rotation? And at which point of the general rotation do you want to go into the Spam rotation?