We need to make cross server queues a reality

[Mazikeen]

Do they have to know the job of all the other classes? No.

 

Yes, good tanks do, because good tanks are expected to lead the group/raid. Not everyone in a given group/raid knows everything they need to. When guild shave progression raids, who do most look to for advice and tactics? Tanks. When players join a group for a FP who do they ask for information? Tanks.

 

This is a standard that has existed for a very long time. In fact, this has existed since before MMOs. Even in P&P games the 'tank' was the group leader more often than not. Warrior, Paladin, whatever, they were the point-men.

 

You seem to confuse knowledge with flaunting which says more about you than the situation.

[psandak]

First let me just say, that my main is a healer and my first character is a tank, but I do have several DPS characters too. I love it when I queue as my tank and get that insta-pop. And I know I have to run daily quests (or do something else) while I wait for my DPS characters to get into a FP. I also tend to queue during peak hours so even on a DPS, the wait is maybe 20 minutes.

 

The solution to this issue is to incentivize queuing as a tank and/or healer. Blizzard had GREAT success with this in WoW: by offering a small reward for queuing and completing a dungeon in a role that was deemed shorthanded"

 

The rewards were random, and not game altering in any significant manner (consumables and vanity items, not always useful to the specific character), but they were enough to encourage some players to queue for no other reason than a chance at something rare, and it prompted other players to consider queuing as a tank or healer instead of DPS. Granted there were growing pains because there were some HORRIBLE tanks and healers early on. But with some patience and understanding, those newbies learned the new role.

 

The payoff...DPS queue times were cut in half overnight.

 

As others have said, cross-server queuing only exacerbates the problem - the ratio of DPS to tanks/healers does not (significantly) change for the better; there are simply more players vying for the limited spots. The REAL solution is to get more players of existing tanks and healers to queue solo and to get those playing DPS to consider playing a tank or healer instead. If WoW is any indication, a "grab-bag" reward for completion of a FP in a "shorthanded" role with random consumables and/or vanity items would go a long way to accomplish this.

[demotivator]

Poor rewards for FP's. FP rewards become obsolote very quickly. So why do them?

There are enough tanks and healers but they AVOID the GF for pugging.

 

Cross server queues do not solve these two issues. It's so easy to get 69 gear now with ops and oricon dailies that you don't need FP's anymore.

 

I tend to disagree on that. My main - who is a healer and no longer needs elite comms - still religiously runs one random HM a day (well I try to do it on a daily basis as much as I am available).

 

The main reason is that it allows me to gear my late alts that I don't play too much as long as the cohort of companions that all my alts bring in the field.

 

I am pretty sure that I am not alone in that case, using the ability to pass gear around your toons.

Edited November 19, 2013 by demotivator

[spectreclees]

IMO from playing lots of mmorpgs over they years are. Cross server anything ruins the community of THAT server. I hope they don't add cross server for that reason. But I can understand why you would want it.

 

I really hope they do not add something like WoW crz. My goodness. That is a headache. "Hey ...want to be my friend or trade or something?" "I'm not on your server..." "oh...well that's dumb" "i know..sigh sorry "

 

I don't want SWTOR to turn into cross server planets or missions and the queves for warzones or flashpoints will ruin the community built or trying to be built on THAT server.

 

What I think anyway

That example was addressed. You can trade and play with people from other servers in cross realm on wow. Also, we aren't even asking for that but just a way to queue up and run FPS or PvP with anyone playing SWTOR at the time. No offense to my "community" on my server but there are plenty of them I get tired of running fps with for reasons... I want some new blood.

Edited November 19, 2013 by spectreclees

[MajikMyst]

A lot of people in this thread are making the claim that cross severs will not lower que times.

 

The thing you are forgetting is the que times for Dps are not the same on each server. If server A has a 30 min que and server b is 1 hour then with cross server the que will be better for server b and worse for server a. It would balance the que's for everyone and might be good for the lower population servers.

 

I know from experience with wow the cross server que times have changed greatly within each expansion. The harder the content usually the longer the Dps que's.

 

I agree that it hurts the server community though.

 

The problem with your remark is that you are assuming that other servers will have a better queue time.. The fact of the matter is, they could have worse.. Something people need to come to terms with is there is only a 50% chance things will get better at all.. Statistically it is more likely that there will be a wash and there will be little to no change.. The servers that are worse will cancel out the ones that are better..

 

There is absolutely nothing that says queue times will get better or worse with cross server.. Anyone that says otherwise is simply ignoring the obvious..

[shadowrouge]

I'm not saying there should not be cross server queuing. But I will say. If cross server queuing does get entered into the game you will have one less tank to add to the pool. I primarily tank. I have a healer or two and one dps per faction just for fun. But Pugging is bad enough on the servers I play on.

If I knew I was going to have to deal with players from other servers, yelling at me because of a wipe. Or laying blame at my feet for something beyond my control I wont be using the GF at all. And as I am not all tanks rolled into one I cant say for sure but I think most tanks agree with me.

[Jeweledleah]

I tend to disagree on that. My main - who is a healer and no longer needs elite comms - still religiously runs one random HM a day (well I try to do it on a daily basis as much as I am available).

 

The main reason is that it allows me to gear my late alts that I don't play too much as long as the cohort of companions that all my alts bring in the field.

 

I am pretty sure that I am not alone in that case, using the ability to pass gear around your toons.

 

you must not do ops then. because even in my casual guild if I do just 4 ops - I'm basically done for the week, especially if we go for TFB and SnV on 16 man story (which we tend to, since you get both elite and ultimate coms)

 

the only reason I run flashpoints nowadays is for fun, to hang out with friends and for practicing a class i play less often/ giving alts some love.

the less fun it gets, the less likely I am to do it, personally (note that fun=/= easy. challenge is fun. jerks are not)

[DOHboy]

The problem with your remark is that you are assuming that other servers will have a better queue time.. The fact of the matter is, they could have worse.. Something people need to come to terms with is there is only a 50% chance things will get better at all.. Statistically it is more likely that there will be a wash and there will be little to no change.. The servers that are worse will cancel out the ones that are better..

 

There is absolutely nothing that says queue times will get better or worse with cross server.. Anyone that says otherwise is simply ignoring the obvious..

 

It will help those who have longer times by taking those who have shorter times and making them longer....hmmm where have we heard things like THAT before? Take from one, give to the other. It will be better for everyone (not adversely affected). Its Fair.

 

Do I need to continue?

[Yndras]

PVP and especially arena needs this before PVE content.

[DOHboy]

PVP and especially arena needs this before PVE content.

 

That I think people will agree on, cross server PVP is probably a good thing.

[gorstram]

PVP and especially arena needs this before PVE content.

Um no.

Edited November 19, 2013 by gorstram

[MaximusRex]

Also you offer no solution to the increased ninja looting. Someone mentioned legacy block but legacy blocking can't be done because Legacy names are no longer unique. Also there may be people with the same character name queueing at the same time. How do you deal with that?

 

I'm not advocating for shared queues one way or the other, but shared names would have no bearing on the ability to add a legacy block. The system doesn't mix together separate legacies with the same name, so there has to be some way it identifies each legacy as unique, which means it should be possible to develop a correctly functioning legacy block.

 

As for Character names, other games with cross server tech just append the server name to the character when in a shared space.

[MajikMyst]

It will help those who have longer times by taking those who have shorter times and making them longer....hmmm where have we heard things like THAT before? Take from one, give to the other. It will be better for everyone (not adversely affected). Its Fair.

 

Do I need to continue?

 

Sure.. Now talk about the people that have longer times that will also be added to the mix.. If you are only going to look at one side of the issue.. Why do you bother participating in the discussion..

 

Are you seriously going to claim that it can only get better and it can't get worse?? I think that is a blind and narrow point of view.. Your entire premise is based on the assumption that all servers have a shorter queue time than the server you are on..

 

As I have said many times in many posts, all of which you seem to have not read.. There is no guarantee that queue times will get better.. While some servers may have shorter times, others may have longer.. You would be wise to take that point into consideration.. Because it is reality.. I have never denied that some change might occur.. I have only said that the change will be minimal and hardly felt.. Why?? Because I am using logic and reasoning in assuming that servers with a faster time will be offset by servers with a longer time.. While there is certain to be some change.. It will most likely not be noticeable..

 

Need I continue??

Edited November 20, 2013 by MajikMyst

[demotivator]

you must not do ops then. because even in my casual guild if I do just 4 ops - I'm basically done for the week, especially if we go for TFB and SnV on 16 man story (which we tend to, since you get both elite and ultimate coms)

 

the only reason I run flashpoints nowadays is for fun, to hang out with friends and for practicing a class i play less often/ giving alts some love.

the less fun it gets, the less likely I am to do it, personally (note that fun=/= easy. challenge is fun. jerks are not)

 

It's not just about elite comms but also gear drops. Even if I'm just greeding on them I am not going to turn down a chance at decently gearing alts and companions.

Edited November 21, 2013 by demotivator

[Jeweledleah]

It's not just about elite comms but also gear drops. Even if I'm just greeding on them I am not going to turn down a chance at decently gearing alts and companions.

 

ops also tend to give better gear options for alts. like tier pieces etc

[demotivator]

ops also tend to give better gear options for alts. like tier pieces etc

 

Except that you can have more runs adding a daily FP. Also - especially if you roll Greed - you have a better luck at getting something competiting against 3 other people rather than 7 or 15.

 

You can keep on argueing about it, HM still have a purpose.

Edited November 22, 2013 by demotivator

[Jeweledleah]

Except that you can have more runs adding a daily FP. Also - especially if you roll Greed - you have a better luck at getting something competiting against 3 other people rather than 7 or 15.

 

You can keep on argueing about it, HM still have a purpose.

 

it seems to be greatly outweighed by inconvenience and time expenditure of actually running them (since in case of hardmodes, you are STILL rolling greed AND hoping the piece of gear you need might ctualy drop and not be needed by other people in a group) especially since you can now get equivalent to hardmode's gear through doing dailies, without having to deal with randomness of pugs, wait times and while getting far more credits (that will go a long way to cover expenses of pulling mods for alt transfer) - through dailies.

 

cause you know - basic coms also buy black market gear, you KNOW you'll be able to get pieces instead of hoping they drop and then hoping you win the roll, and basic coms have much MUCH higher threshold.

 

face it - flashpoints are the least expedient way of getting shinies, even with instaqueue. the only reasons to really run them once you are full on coms is.. fun? and chances of having fun in a pug are greatly reduced vs chance of having fun with friends.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[disxion]

Based on what?? There is no such fact.. You are pulling that one out of thin air..

 

Its a statistical fact? Statistical Randomness exists in human behaviour. Unless you have some miraculous way to map out when exactly I am going to play and Bob, and Bob's brother from your armchair then there is randomness. Randomness has a greater impact the smaller the sample size; this is obvious.

 

There will always be randomness; the number of players in queue and the number of DPS, Healers and Tanks will NOT be the same everyday. The reasons the numbers will not be the same does NOT follow a discernible pattern (hence random). People might not queue because they want to PvP today. Or they aren't playing cos of exams. Or because they have a report to hand in the next day. Or they have an outing with friends. Randomness exist in human behaviour and hence how many people are queued at a particular time of day, and how many are DPS, Tanks and Healers.

 

Randomness has a greater impact the smaller the sample size; I already explained this in my previous post. Let's say on average the ratio is 7:2:1. Hypothetically let's say we have 1000 people in queue. 700 DPS, 200 Healers and 100 Tanks would be the expected distribution from the average ratio. As stated above, there is randomness, there will be consistent fluctuations in the numbers as people queue, unqueue, log in, and log off for random reasons. However for the average ratio of 7:2:1 to be seriously affected you would have to have massive fluctuations of hundreds of players; not very likely. Compare the situation to 10 people in queue. 7 DPS, 2 Healers 1 Tank would be the expected distribution. Again there is randomness and fluctuations. The ratio will be seriously affected if there is a fluctuation in very few players. One less tank means 100% decrease in queue times. One more tank means 100% increase in queue times. A fluctuation of four players from the expected distribution would have a massive effect (while it would take hundreds with a sample size of 1000). Just yesterday I queued into a flashpoint as a Tank during off hours. Both the so-called DPSs, were actually tanks who had queued themselves as DPS because the queue was taking too long; we had 3 tanks and 1 healer in the FP. We ended up booting one of them for ninja looting and we weren't able to find a replacement DPS for 35 minutes - though we were able to find another tank queued as DPS who left after we wiped. So there had been 4 tanks and 1 (or more) healers in queue, but no DPS.

 

It is obvious that randomness has a greater effect on smaller sample sizes. During off-hours there is a considerably smaller sample size. Increasing the sample size during off-hours (through cross-server) would diminish the effects of randomness and have a positive effect on queue times. Note I am only talking about off-hours NOT during most of the day. And I am not advocating cross-server be implemented, because it may create bigger problems in peak hours with the only benefit being moderately faster queue times at off-hours.