So where are all these Assassins dominating the leader boards?

[Knightlyyy]

Serious question. How many of you assassin players have other classes? and if you have other classes, list them please.

 

All 8 classes.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see 90% of the poster-childs for Shadows/Sins to even possess one on their character sheet.

Their friends told them Sin/Shadow were OP for whatever reason though so raise dem pitchforks up yolo-mofckahs!

 

 

 

How many of the heralded *TOP* players in this game can play an Assassin and produce the same results as they would on their -other- classes? Lol! Not many.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Knightlyyy

[Knightlyyy]

So far I've seen like 45 posts from people who think "sins are fine" and 0 actual evidence supporting that claim. Way to represent. Meanwhile there are more sorcs than sins at the top of group ranked and this guy who thinks sins are fine is talking about his sorc. LOL

 

Drink up that coolaid

 

You should reread what orryko wrote as you missed the boat, by a long shot.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Knightlyyy

[Calvin_Mago]

None of this is terribly controversial. Sins are fine in that they are in the middle of the pack in ranked. Top Sins can still get top ratings, but it's easier to get a higher rating with a AP PT, Smash mara, or operative healer. Sorcs, mercs, DPS Juggs, need buffs to be in line. Some AC's, like madness sins and conc operatives are currently worthless for ranked period. So they can either tune down the top 3 advanced classes a little bit, or buff everyone else up to the same level. Edited November 19, 2013 by Calvin_Mago

[JP_Legatus]

None of this is terribly controversial. Sins are fine in that they are in the middle of the pack in ranked. Top Sins can still get top ratings, but it's easier to get a higher rating with a AP PT, Smash mara, or operative healer. Sorcs, mercs, DPS Juggs, need buffs to be in line. Some AC's, like madness sins and conc operatives are currently worthless for ranked period. So they can either tune down the top 3 advanced classes a little bit, or buff everyone else up to the same level.

 

Exactlyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[JP_Legatus]

You should reread what orryko wrote as you missed the boat, by a long shot.

 

"it's just far from ideal" is what I saw him write, in addition to somehow also agreeing with what that other guy said, which contradicts the rest of his text

 

not that yet another opinion is any more relevant than the 45 opinions that came before it

 

To clarify, I linked a bunch of evidence showing sins (deception only, maybe tank too idk hard to tell) are basically well below operative, mara, and pt in ranked play, and exilove countered with "yeah sins are a hard class to play" meanwhile he thinks they are perfectly fine in ranked play.

 

My position has always been that sins are OP in regs and bad in rateds, whether or not it's because the top-tier classes are overpowered is a different issue, sins just don't perform on that top level is the point these guys aren't getting. The dps specs are squishy and easily peeled and/or focused, don't do as much damage as other dps specs, and the tank spec just won't perform on the level of jugg for full tank or PT for hybrid tank. That's just the reality and how people are arguing about this I have no idea.

Edited November 19, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[Stavroz]

None of this is terribly controversial. Sins are fine in that they are in the middle of the pack in ranked. Top Sins can still get top ratings, but it's easier to get a higher rating with a AP PT, Smash mara, or operative healer. Sorcs, mercs, DPS Juggs, need buffs to be in line. Some AC's, like madness sins and conc operatives are currently worthless for ranked period. So they can either tune down the top 3 advanced classes a little bit, or buff everyone else up to the same level.

 

My point of making the thread

 

Sins are not OP like ppl claimed they would be in arenas.

 

They are a harder class to play then PT/Mara and are not quite as good.

 

So my point stands.

A good player will do well with a Shadow/sin but he would do better with a mara/PT.

 

Mara/PT do more dmg.

They are more survivable.

 

End of the day in arena Utility is great but you need to stay alive and kill the opposite team.

 

Doing more dmg while being more survivable helps you achieve that objective better and makes up for the slightly less utility.

 

Also PT have amazing utility anyway with Taunts, Aoe Stun, Ion Cell guarding (which is what all top PT's do).

 

DPS Sins/shadows can not compete with that.

 

This is y the leader boards are dominated my PT/Vang.

[Knightlyyy]

"it's just far from ideal" is what I saw him write, in addition to somehow also agreeing with what that other guy said, which contradicts the rest of his text

 

not that yet another opinion is any more relevant than the 45 opinions that came before it

 

To clarify, I linked a bunch of evidence showing sins (deception only, maybe tank too idk hard to tell) are basically well below operative, mara, and pt in ranked play, and exilove countered with "yeah sins are a hard class to play" meanwhile he thinks they are perfectly fine in ranked play.

 

My position has always been that sins are OP in regs and bad in rateds, whether or not it's because the top-tier classes are overpowered is a different issue, sins just don't perform on that top level is the point these guys aren't getting. The dps specs are squishy and easily peeled and/or focused, don't do as much damage as other dps specs, and the tank spec just won't perform on the level of jugg for full tank or PT for hybrid tank. That's just the reality and how people are arguing about this I have no idea.

 

I do not feel like arguing semantics my first day back on the forums...

 

I would like to invite you to my forum thread that is advocating getting Shadow/Sins the PULL as a baseline ability though! It needs to be bumped, cheers!

[Knightlyyy]

 

End of the day in arena Utility is great but you need to stay alive and kill the opposite team.

 

Doing more dmg while being more survivable helps you achieve that objective better and makes up for the slightly less utility.

 

 

Step back and think about this... does Deception Sin ~really~ have that much utility? MORE utility than a marauder or PT? It's like the Utility-OP-hybrid-tank-spec from long ago represents all of the current Assassin specs.

 

Get a grip people, Shadows/Sins DO NOT HAVE THAT MUCH UTILITY. Come to the realization soon plzFFS.

 

Not meaning to harass you, you're just representing a lot of ignorant people for me.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Knightlyyy

[JP_Legatus]

I do not feel like arguing semantics my first day back on the forums...

 

I would like to invite you to my forum thread that is advocating getting Shadow/Sins the PULL as a baseline ability though! It needs to be bumped, cheers!

 

idk what you are even arguing with. It's looks to me that you and me share the same opinion of sins rated viability.

 

I don't however agree with giving pull as a baseline ability. I can't think of a way that would fix anything.

Edited November 19, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[Racter]

"it's just far from ideal" is what I saw him write, in addition to somehow also agreeing with what that other guy said, which contradicts the rest of his text

 

not that yet another opinion is any more relevant than the 45 opinions that came before it

 

To clarify, I linked a bunch of evidence showing sins (deception only, maybe tank too idk hard to tell) are basically well below operative, mara, and pt in ranked play, and exilove countered with "yeah sins are a hard class to play" meanwhile he thinks they are perfectly fine in ranked play.

 

My position has always been that sins are OP in regs and bad in rateds, whether or not it's because the top-tier classes are overpowered is a different issue, sins just don't perform on that top level is the point these guys aren't getting. The dps specs are squishy and easily peeled and/or focused, don't do as much damage as other dps specs, and the tank spec just won't perform on the level of jugg for full tank or PT for hybrid tank. That's just the reality and how people are arguing about this I have no idea.

 

The Darkness Deception hybrid is great in arenas. I'm sorry you cannot make it work. Both full Deception and Deception with Death Field work pretty atm also. Madness is way too squishy to even be brought into discussion.

 

http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/character/4611686660658469708 as an example. Turrican tanks for my team in 4s. Currently 35-4 in ranked, with three of those being Mudclot/Xeno double madness and one being a poorly played game on our part to a well played Pyro/Carnage/Shield tech team. Can you run the spec with double smash, or single smash AP? Maybe, maybe not. But it works in our comp (Madness Sorc/Carnage Mara).

 

I would argue that top Sins do in fact perform at the top level in arena.

[Knightlyyy]

The Darkness Deception hybrid is great in arenas. I'm sorry you cannot make it work. Both full Deception and Deception with Death Field work pretty atm also. Madness is way too squishy to even be brought into discussion.

 

http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/character/4611686660658469708 as an example. Turrican tanks for my team in 4s. Currently 35-4 in ranked, with three of those being Mudclot/Xeno double madness and one being a poorly played game on our part to a well played Pyro/Carnage/Shield tech team. Can you run the spec with double smash, or single smash AP? Maybe, maybe not. But it works in our comp (Madness Sorc/Carnage Mara).

 

I would argue that top Sins do in fact perform at the top level in arena.

 

Care to link the Darkness/Deception hybrid build? Been out of the game for awhile.

[LadyDarkkitten]

Serious question. How many of you assassin players have other classes? and if you have other classes, list them please.

 

I play all classes and specs.

My current main is a tankasin level 55 Ghostkitten. if Im not on it im most commonly found on my sith Jug Darkkitten played immortal/rage in pvp and immortal/veng pve. I dont pvp with it any more because I hate how fiddly smash is to make work in a bg (fk off with smash is a joke rotation... I play madness sorcs and arsenal mercs. You can ACTUALLY SCREW UP the smash rotation or have it screwed up for you. Its not a 4 button lol spec like the others) and cos as a tank solo queuing into regs? It sucks. really painful game play experience. Im good with a good healer. Got 1million protection once, but thats not the norm. The norm is to die over and over and over to guard damage while doing jack squat to the enemy team and getting no heals. Thats why I stopped playing my Jug.

 

Im now sat at 13 lev 55s and Im leveling my agent to replace my Sin with 2.5. My tankasin cant kill equally geared folks who know how to play. Nor have I ever lost to a tankasin on my other classes. Deception though? yeah they terroize my sorcs and sages. On my Tankasin theres one player who really frigthens me. Hes like my bogeyman, Ira from dxun rising. Hes an infiltration shadow who frankly murders me. Our fights have never been close nor can I see them ever being due to the sheer disparity on the numbers he hits me with for the numbers I hit him with. In arenas Im useless and in a regular wz I cant gaurd a node by myself as rep shadows/operatives can kill me and take it before help can arrive. I dont have the damage to defend myself from attackers.

[Evolixe]

So you agree deception is not as good as other dps specs then? Good to know.

 

I'm curious as to what you think is hard about the spec, though. Since you know, that's his entire argument.

 

P.S. I have a sorc.

 

The fact that you need to work harder to get the same thing done does not mean the class is in a bad state.

It just means the entrylevel to play sin is a **** ton higher than any other class.

 

It has been the same in WoW with Rogues for years. The class isn't underperforming and no I wouldn't do better on a marauder even if I played it as well as I do Assassin.

[helpmewin]

Shadows/sins 1 of the simplest classes in this game. And this class dominating in 1 on 1. Only 1 thing need brains - shadow tanking in PvP. BW gaves to sins facerolling spec(deception/infiltration) in 2.0 and somebody crying about it? Non valuable? U kidding? Most of the best PvP-rs on tofn quit this game after 1.5. I think if they come back they will be so happy about this buff. Edited November 19, 2013 by helpmewin

[Rynis]

This thread kept me entertained for awhile.

 

I like to believe I play my shadow fairly well and I recently rolled a marauder as it was one of the classes I didn't have. It's funny how easy it is to get the same results with half the effort.

 

But that's what I love about sins/shadows, a player can't just "roll" a sin and expect to put up numbers like a marauder. It's easy to spot the new sins and the ones that have been around.

 

With the right players/team they work fine in arenas.

[Racter]

The fact that you need to work harder to get the same thing done does not mean the class is in a bad state.

It just means the entrylevel to play sin is a **** ton higher than any other class.

 

It has been the same in WoW with Rogues for years. The class isn't underperforming and no I wouldn't do better on a marauder even if I played it as well as I do Assassin.

 

This class is not anywhere near as complicated as a rogue. It would be nice if it had that skill cap but this game is too basic. Will probably never get there. Concealment is somewhat close but even played perfectly its too weak to use ATM.

[helpmewin]

This thread kept me entertained for awhile.

 

I like to believe I play my shadow fairly well and I recently rolled a marauder as it was one of the classes I didn't have. It's funny how easy it is to get the same results with half the effort.

 

But that's what I love about sins/shadows, a player can't just "roll" a sin and expect to put up numbers like a marauder. It's easy to spot the new sins and the ones that have been around.

 

With the right players/team they work fine in arenas.

 

Why so many ppls cry about maras? Mara don't have any superious mega OP builds - they have the best def cd's in this game(better than tanks have) and very usefull utilites. If BW nerfs it, they will be not so good. Nerf 1 def cd in 2.5 is makes me laught.

Edited November 19, 2013 by helpmewin

[Technohic]

This class is not anywhere near as complicated as a rogue. It would be nice if it had that skill cap but this game is too basic. Will probably never get there. Concealment is somewhat close but even played perfectly its too weak to use ATM.

 

I have both (er, well scrapper but no dif) and scrapper is easier than deception sin. Hands down. Really it's not the fault of the scrapper/concealment player itself; they just don't have as many tools and procs to use properly or improperly.

[Avicii]

I do not feel like arguing semantics my first day back on the forums...

 

I would like to invite you to my forum thread that is advocating getting Shadow/Sins the PULL as a baseline ability though! It needs to be bumped, cheers!

 

Ha ha ha in the context of this thread this post is awesome good job.

[AlrikFassbauer]

This class is not anywhere near as complicated as a rogue.

 

This is not Dungeons & Dragons.

[Stavroz]

Step back and think about this... does Deception Sin ~really~ have that much utility? MORE utility than a marauder or PT? It's like the Utility-OP-hybrid-tank-spec from long ago represents all of the current Assassin specs.

 

Get a grip people, Shadows/Sins DO NOT HAVE THAT MUCH UTILITY. Come to the realization soon plzFFS.

 

Not meaning to harass you, you're just representing a lot of ignorant people for me.

 

We do have some nice Utility. (infiltration)

 

Stealth CC (mind maze and Spin kick)

Taunts

Knockback

Stun

Phase walk (good for orbital station if the fight is at the top and you get pulled or knocked down)

Lift (but you don't get to cast it often with all the chain cc's knock backs and smart players interrupting it)

 

But all in all i agree with you its not as amazing as some ppl make it out to be.

 

The Far superior DMG and Survivabilty with its own decent Utility of PT and Mara trumps us.

[JP_Legatus]

The fact that you need to work harder to get the same thing done does not mean the class is in a bad state.

It just means the entrylevel to play sin is a **** ton higher than any other class.

 

It has been the same in WoW with Rogues for years. The class isn't underperforming and no I wouldn't do better on a marauder even if I played it as well as I do Assassin.

 

The skill cap you're attempting to create is a myth. There is a measured and documented lack of damage and survivability in the class, especially outside the opener. Is it as bad as madness sin or concealment? No, but it's not as good as PT or Mara.

 

An the deception hybrids issue again oh wow. There are some serious lunatic delusion issues going on in this thread.

Truth is I play my sin just as good if not better than any of you clowns talking about how great they are. I just happen to have other classes like operative who are op as Fk and I know the difference between doing fine in regs or solo queue and running second rate specs against MVP or other top guilds.

 

Regardless the numbers support me and not you so the discussion is over since you clearly have nothing Of value to add.

Edited November 19, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[Evolixe]

This class is not anywhere near as complicated as a rogue. It would be nice if it had that skill cap but this game is too basic. Will probably never get there. Concealment is somewhat close but even played perfectly its too weak to use ATM.

 

You're not understanding me right. I'm saying that the underlaying idea is the same.

Not that Assassin's are as hard as a Rogue (which was my main class for 6 years mind you).

[NathanielStarr]

Why so many ppls cry about maras? Mara don't have any superious mega OP builds - they have the best def cd's in this game(better than tanks have) and very usefull utilites. If BW nerfs it, they will be not so good. Nerf 1 def cd in 2.5 is makes me laught.

 

OK weird spelling errors aside, you are just wrong. Smash Marauders are very OP and they could nerf them quite a bit before they would be useless which is what I assume you mean by not so good.

[Abbrachmann]

You're not understanding me right. I'm saying that the underlaying idea is the same.

Not that Assassin's are as hard as a Rogue (which was my main class for 6 years mind you).

 

Sins have a very low skill cap. As does every DPS class in this game.

Some are capable of 1800-2.5k dps, and some aren't.

 

Example-

I've done 1900 as combat on my sentinel. I've done 1500 on my infiltration shadow.

I've done 2.5k on my smash sentinel, 2300 on my hybrid sorc, similar etc etc lethality blah blah blah. Do you get it? Some classes are just better at damage, and infiltration shadows fall very near the bottom.

 

Sins are not good in competitive matches if there is a ranged DPS class on the opposing team as they are too susceptible to ranged damage, and their own damage is too high profile with no sustain whatsoever. They do not make pressure for more than a few seconds, and even then a good team can mitigate that opener very well through peel taunts or stuns.

 

Assassins and other stealth DPS are not ok because they do not provide any real damage other than low sustain. Its not even like combat spec, where the damage comes with huge utility with great group buffs, execute, roots, trauma debuff.... (Also, the damage itself is much higher in the sustain phase). Arenas are ruled by cleave or dot cleave teams. If you are losing to single target pressure comps at this point if you have an operative healer and a PT tank, its because you are not playing correctly.