DPS Commando PvP theory crafting

[Kenmuir]

Also, I noticed that full auto procs HIB when you use it so it determines it before it knows if your third hit will hit or not. Based on that, I'd say Plasma Cell does not receive multiple proc chances.

 

I hope that's not true, otherwise Assault falls even farther behind IMO. If it's each hit, just spamming Hammer Shot gets you a 41% chance per GCD, otherwise the slow on Plasma Cell just went from a decent kiting ability if you start at range, to a RNG roller coaster.

 

IMO that's the biggest problem with Assault, most of the damage/functionality comes from procs. Increased Crit damage, slow on Plasma Cell Damage, chance to reset HIB cooldown from FA/CB, and the cooldown reduction on Adrenaline Rush/Reactive shield. For a "pvp" talent tree it's super dependent on RNG and not in a good way since most of the RNG forces you to react, not your opponent. On the other hand, Gunnery is very consistent, you know the exact benefits of everything that you do, which IMO is much better for PvP.

[LordKivlov]

It either rolls all three hits before-hand and ignores whether you actually do anything with it or not, or it's a flat proc off of the activation of the ability. It seems silly to roll on all three which is why I'm leaning towards activation proc. There's 4 (Pretty sure it's 4) chances for hammershot to proc if it is individual so you've got essentially 64% chance to snare someone but it doesn't really feel like that. Feels more like a 16% chance to proc to me, couldn't keep it up 100% of the time while running from someone spamming hammershot at them.

 

I really wish they were a little more clear with things like this, or have provided some target dummies and combat parsing from the get-go to test things on. Unrelated, I would like to test a HIB oritented hybrid AS-Gunnery build for pure PvE but I can't

Edited December 31, 2011 by LordKivlov

[Kenmuir]

It either rolls all three hits before-hand and ignores whether you actually do anything with it or not, or it's a flat proc off of the activation of the ability. It seems silly to roll on all three which is why I'm leaning towards activation proc. There's 4 (Pretty sure it's 4) chances for hammershot to proc if it is individual so you've got essentially 64% chance to snare someone but it doesn't really feel like that. Feels more like a 16% chance to proc to me, couldn't keep it up 100% of the time while running from someone spamming hammershot at them.

 

I really wish they were a little more clear with things like this, or have provided some target dummies and combat parsing from the get-go to test things on. Unrelated, I would like to test a HIB oritented hybrid AS-Gunnery build for pure PvE but I can't

 

Hammer Shot hits three times, once for ~25%, once for ~50% and once for ~25%. Those numbers might be wrong, but it's definitely three hits, with the middle one being the largest. It is interesting to note that the three hits for Hammer Shot appear to roll independently for avoidance, but not for the proc on Plasma Cell.

 

Also, I would recommend against a Hybrid build, especially for PvE. You really want to get the top 31 point talent in the tree if you are going more than 10 points in it. The bottoms of Assault and Combat Medic force you to spend a lot of points in their related cells. But you can only have one active at a time, switching requires a 1.5s cast, so that's basically causing you to lose talent points, where as if you went up to the top of a tree you don't really have any wasted points.

 

Most hybrid specs are a solo PvP kind of thing. The only real hybrid I can come up with is a Combat Medic, Gunnery build. Mostly because gunnery still benefits from Combat Support Cell. But the problem with hybrid specs is that it's easier to justify spending one more point in your primary tree, the one with the most points in it, than it is to spend a point in a secondary tree.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Kenmuir

[Butches]

Again I will ask, what is the point of Assault? If you are going to say more mobility please try and show it with examples and something resembling theorycraft. Maybe a few numbers too.

 

The point is, Assault's max out put isnt charged up, or built around stacking abilities.

[Kenmuir]

The point is, Assault's max out put isnt charged up, or built around stacking abilities.

 

Except it is? To get the most out of HIB in Assault you have to cast a lot of Charged Bolts, just like Gunnery needs to cast Grav Round to get the most out of HIB. You also need to have a burning target, meaning you either cast Incendiary Round(3 ammo) or Plasma Grenade(4 ammo) or you got lucky with a 16% proc. Sounds like Assault is also charged up and built around stacking abilities.

 

Did you disagree with anything else I said? Any scenarios that you can come up with where Assault does better than Gunnery with you providing the proof not just anecdotes or assertions of fact?

Edited December 31, 2011 by Kenmuir

[LordKivlov]

Hammer Shot hits three times, once for ~25%, once for ~50% and once for ~25%. Those numbers might be wrong, but it's definitely three hits, with the middle one being the largest. It is interesting to note that the three hits for Hammer Shot appear to roll independently for avoidance, but not for the proc on Plasma Cell.

 

Also, I would recommend against a Hybrid build, especially for PvE. You really want to get the top 31 point talent in the tree if you are going more than 10 points in it. The bottoms of Assault and Combat Medic force you to spend a lot of points in their related cells. But you can only have one active at a time, switching requires a 1.5s cast, so that's basically causing you to lose talent points, where as if you went up to the top of a tree you don't really have any wasted points.

 

Most hybrid specs are a solo PvP kind of thing. The only real hybrid I can come up with is a Combat Medic, Gunnery build. Mostly because gunnery still benefits from Combat Support Cell. But the problem with hybrid specs is that it's easier to justify spending one more point in your primary tree, the one with the most points in it, than it is to spend a point in a secondary tree.

Figured it was 3 and my eyes were just playing tricks on me.

 

And yeah, was just curious to see the numbers from when we get parse since you'd have more activations on HIB.

[Butches]

Except it is? To get the most out of HIB in Assault you have to cast a lot of Charged Bolts, just like Gunnery needs to cast Grav Round to get the most out of HIB. You also need to have a burning target, meaning you either cast Incendiary Round(3 ammo) or Plasma Grenade(4 ammo) or you got lucky with a 16% proc. Sounds like Assault is also charged up and built around stacking abilities.

 

Did you disagree with anything else I said? Any scenarios that you can come up with where Assault does better than Gunnery with you providing the proof not just anecdotes or assertions of fact?

 

That is flat out wrong. You're talking about HIB over an extended period of time, from a pure throughput standpoint.

 

If you dont see the difference between a passive RNG crit bonus and a charged buff through grav round then I'll just explain it to you. I'm not talking about a charged bolt proc im talking about the highest amount of dmg ONE (i repeat ONE) HIB can achieve. In order to reach a gunnery max output with ONE HIB you need to chage up a stupid buff. In order to reach the highest dmg of ONE HIB in assault u need a crit.

This is passive RNG increase <------ ------>This is a stacking buff

Which do i prefer? the prior. Why? Because most of the time that stacking buff will not be capped and i dont want to wait for a buff to get the most out of a HIB. I'd rather just take more crit dmg. Seriously this is not number calculations this is common sense.

 

And again if you dont see the difference between casting an instant ability to utilize HIB, and using a knockback then casting a grav round then HIB, well i give up. There is a huge difference there, and GCDs mean a lot in this game.

 

YOU'RE APPLYING PVE THEORYCRAFTING TO PVP IT IS NOT THE SAME, SO STOP TRYING TO COMPARE TWO SPECS IN A VACUUM.

[Butches]

And I'm not saying 1 is better than the other, I happen to think that way, but if anyone wants to go gunnery thats cool go for it. I do not for two reasons, 1) Incindiary round makes HIB easier to utilize, and 2) AP timed with charged bolt and HIB is 1 GCD less than grav round > HIB > Demo, and that matters to me.

[Kenmuir]

That is flat out wrong. You're talking about HIB over an extended period of time, from a pure throughput standpoint.

 

If you dont see the difference between a passive RNG crit bonus and a charged buff through grav round then I'll just explain it to you. I'm not talking about a charged bolt proc im talking about the highest amount of dmg ONE (i repeat ONE) HIB can achieve. In order to reach a gunnery max output with ONE HIB you need to chage up a stupid buff. In order to reach the highest dmg of ONE HIB in assault u need a crit.

This is passive RNG increase <------ ------>This is a stacking buff

Which do i prefer? the prior. Why? Because most of the time that stacking buff will not be capped and i dont want to wait for a buff to get the most out of a HIB. I'd rather just take more crit dmg. Seriously this is not number calculations this is common sense.

 

Why does no one else even attempt to do math? do you know the damage difference between the crit damage and the stacking buff?

 

If you deal 100 damage with HIB, 25% crit rate, 200% crit damage

 

That's 125 average damage

 

With 230% crit damage that's a 132.5 average damage. Interestingly enough, that's the same as the 6% damage buff you gain from casting Grav round once, not including the armor pen advantage you have with Gunnery.

 

Maybe crit damage isn't as good as you thought?

 

Just in case you wanted to argue that you'd have better burst:

 

Gunnery: 212 damage on crit

Assault: 230 damage on crit

 

For an 8% increase on the top end if you only have one Charged Barrel buff(which you would most likely have if you used HIB). At 2 Charged Barrel buffs it becomes a 2.5% damage increase. If you can't figure out a way to use two 1.5second cast time abilities every 15 seconds, you most likely already lost the fight.

 

And again if you dont see the difference between casting an instant ability to utilize HIB, and using a knockback then casting a grav round then HIB, well i give up. There is a huge difference there, and GCDs mean a lot in this game.

 

I also never said you had to cast a grav round after the knockback. You could use Demo Round(Incendiary Round), Sticky Grenade(Assault Plastique), Cyro Grenade into HIB, Hammer Shot, or Stock Strike.

 

 

YOU'RE APPLYING PVE THEORYCRAFTING TO PVP IT IS NOT THE SAME, SO STOP TRYING TO COMPARE TWO SPECS IN A VACUUM.

 

You can theorycraft PvP, it just require you to build a bigger decision tree(not fun). But I'm definitely not doing it in a vacuum.

 

Also, where are the instances where I can do something with Assault that I can't do an equivalent to with Gunnery? Where was your attempt at doing anything resembling math?(Your blind allegiance to increased crit damage over a static buff wasn't well placed)

 

 

And I'm not saying 1 is better than the other, I happen to think that way, but if anyone wants to go gunnery thats cool go for it. I do not for two reasons, 1) Incindiary round makes HIB easier to utilize, and 2) AP timed with charged bolt and HIB is 1 GCD less than grav round > HIB > Demo, and that matters to me.

 

An equivalent comparison would be:

Assault Plastique -> Charged Bolt -> HIB

Sticky Grenade -> Grav Round -> Demo Round -> HIB

 

The problem is where do you put the Incendiary Round for Assault? You want the burn effect so you can get the 9% damage buff and the reduced ammo for HIB. But you also want to use HIB before Charged Bolts so you can get the chance at a cooldown reset. You either kill your burst for long term damage, or you kill your long term damage for burst. Maybe you have to pray for a 16% proc on AP.(EDIT: opps, from reading the description of Plasma Cell again it looks like it only procs on Weapon Damage, so it couldn't proc on AP) On the other hand, Gunnery doesn't have to do that.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Kenmuir

[Scotfo]

Hi Kenmuir! The only issue I have with any of the theory you have put forward is that it is based on incomplete math. You have not addressed most of the variables that I put forward earlier in this thread. You can also refer to my own thread entitled "The Current Irrelevance of Spec Comparison" to see other variables that your math is lacking. I also believe you may be over estimating the value of armor piercing rounds. Neither have I seen you take into account issue's involving target swapping or high mobility fights and present a case in mathematical form. I am not saying that you are wrong in your belief that Gunnery is superior in PvP. I am saying that you have not adequately made a case to support your assertions. To be honest: I don't believe any of us(myself included) can definitively say which spec is superior at this time. We need access to more hard data before we can do that. I would love to get your feedback on my thread if the fancy strikes you to read it. Edited January 1, 2012 by Scotfo

[Kenmuir]

Hi Kenmuir! The only issue I have with any of the theory you have put forward is that it is based on incomplete math. You have not addressed most of the variables that I put forward earlier in this thread. You can also refer to my own thread entitled "The Current Irrelevance of Spec Comparison" to see other variables that your math is lacking. I also believe you may be over estimating the value of armor piercing rounds. Neither have I seen you take into account issue's involving target swapping or high mobility fights and present a case in mathematical form. I am not saying that you are wrong in your belief that Gunnery is superior in PvP. I am saying that you have not adequately made a case to support your assertions. To be honest: I don't believe any of us(myself included) can definitively say which spec is superior at this time. We need access to more hard data before we can do that. I would love to get your feedback on my thread if the fancy strikes you to read it.

 

A couple things about your thread:

 

1. You're wrong on how AP cell works. It does give you 35% armor pen just like Target Lock give you 3% accuracy. It's an additive buff not a multiplicative buff.

 

2.Your understanding of the effects of how armor reduction works is wrong. Going from a 30% damage reduction to 24% damage reduction is not a 6% damage increase. It's an 8.5% damage increase. You go from dealing 70% damage up to 76% damage.

 

3. You're wrong about Gunnery being a rotation system. It's a priority system. At lower levels it might feel like a rotation, but I recommend you go look at some theorycraft to see the priority system for Gunery.

 

4. Dot's wont do much for you, considering how few Assault has. A three ammo ability(Incendiary Round), Plasma Cell(16% proc), and Plasma Grenade(the only time you would every use this awful 4 ammo ability is with reserve powercell). I don't know how useful having multiple kinds of attacks will be. But Assault seems to have Weapon Damage Attacks and Elemental Attacks while Gunnery seems to have Kinetic and Weapon Damage attacks.

 

5. The increase on HIB over gunnery is roughly about even to the buff from Charged Barrel, except HIB does less DPS than Charged Bolts so it's a slight ammo gain for dps loss.

 

6. Assault most likely will not have better cell management, due to Cell Charger likely being better than Ionic Accelerator. I'll do the math later, but 1 ammo on every ability you use versus a chance to proc a free shot just seems better to me, but I'll look at it later.

 

7. You state that since we don't have all the facts we can't postulate anything worthwhile. I just disagree with that. Newton didn't have the Laws of Relativity but he still came up with good approximations in his Laws of Motion.

 

8.Just because we can't have hard parse of the different damage levels does not mean that one of the specs is not ahead of the other. Being blind doesn't mean that things don't have color.

 

Theorycraft is a looping cycle, you come up with a theory, decide what needs to be changed or accounted for, and then come up with another theory. It's just like every other scientific experiment ever done. Just this time it's done with math, mostly because the game is run on a sequential difference engine(AKA a computer).

[TePec]

Why does no one else even attempt to do math? do you know the damage difference between the crit damage and the stacking buff?

 

If you deal 100 damage with HIB, 25% crit rate, 200% crit damage

 

That's 125 average damage

 

With 230% crit damage that's a 132.5 average damage. Interestingly enough, that's the same as the 6% damage buff you gain from casting Grav round once, not including the armor pen advantage you have with Gunnery.

 

Maybe crit damage isn't as good as you thought?

 

Just in case you wanted to argue that you'd have better burst:

 

Gunnery: 212 damage on crit

Assault: 230 damage on crit

 

For an 8% increase on the top end if you only have one Charged Barrel buff(which you would most likely have if you used HIB). At 2 Charged Barrel buffs it becomes a 2.5% damage increase. If you can't figure out a way to use two 1.5second cast time abilities every 15 seconds, you most likely already lost the fight.

 

Only for my clearance, but i thougth critdmg double our normal damage. I.G. :

 

(200% crit dmg x 100 base dmg) + 100 base dmg = 300 dmg critical

 

or something i misunderstood?

[Kenmuir]

Only for my clearance, but i thougth critdmg double our normal damage. I.G. :

 

(200% crit dmg x 100 base dmg) + 100 base dmg = 300 dmg critical

 

or something i misunderstood?

 

You misunderstand. When you crit you deal your normal damage plus plus your crit damage multiplier x your normal damage.

 

So if you have a 100% crit damage multiplier the damage would be:

 

100 base damage + (100 base damage x 100%) = 200

 

With a 50% crit damage multiplier the damage would be:

 

100 base damage + (100 base damage x 50%) = 150

 

I hope that clears it up for you.

[xPrTx]

Why does no one else even attempt to do math? do you know the damage difference between the crit damage and the stacking buff?

 

If you deal 100 damage with HIB, 25% crit rate, 200% crit damage

 

That's 125 average damage

 

With 230% crit damage that's a 132.5 average damage. Interestingly enough, that's the same as the 6% damage buff you gain from casting Grav round once, not including the armor pen advantage you have with Gunnery.

 

Maybe crit damage isn't as good as you thought?

 

Except your forgetting all the other variables. Increased Crit chance from AS, 9% damage boost, the higher crit rate the more effect crit damage has, the 15% boost from 4 piece pvp, etc.

 

You get onto me for math every time I post, but when you post, it's always incomplete math that favors Gunnery. Do the full math if you wanna prove a point.

[Kenmuir]

Except your forgetting all the other variables. Increased Crit chance from AS, 9% damage boost, the higher crit rate the more effect crit damage has, the 15% boost from 4 piece pvp, etc.

 

You get onto me for math every time I post, but when you post, it's always incomplete math that favors Gunnery. Do the full math if you wanna prove a point.

 

Fine, I'll do better this time.

 

30% damage reduction on your target

1000 damage on HIB

25% crit rate

200% crit damage

 

Those are the base stats. Assault does not have an increased crit chance over Gunnery for HIB.

 

 

Average Damage for Gunnery would be, assuming one cast of grav round prior to that:

 

(((1000 * .75 + .25 *(2000))* .8206)*1.06) = 1087.295

 

Average Damage for Assault would be, assuming you cast incendiary round prior to that:

 

(((1000*.75 +.25*2300)*.79)*1.09) = 1140.9575

 

Max damage for Gunnery would be:

2000 * .8206 *1.06 = 1739.672

 

Max damage for Assault would be:

2300 * .79 * 1.09 = 1980.53

 

Assault deals 5% more average damage, but has a 14% higher possible damage.

 

For a 50% crit rate the numbers become:

Gunnery Average : (((1000 * .5 + .5 *2000)*.8206)*1.06) = 1304.754

Assault Average: (((1000 * .5 + .5 *2300)*.79)*1.09) = 1420.815

 

Assault deals 9% more average damage.

 

 

But, that's with only one Buff of Charged Barrel and 2 Gravity vortexes.

At 25% crit With 2 buffs, Gunnery deals 3% more average damage. Assault deals 8% more max damage.

At 50% crit with 2 buffs , Assault deals 1% more average damage.

 

 

The only reason these are so close is because of the armor pen that HIB gets in Assault from high friction bolts. Without it, Gunnery deals almost 10% more damage than Assault.

 

Any other math you need me to do? Or if you would prefer, show some math yourself that includes everything that you think I'm not including.

 

Most people seem to be seriously underestimating the effect that the increased armor pen has.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Kenmuir

[Messiaa]

I am a lvl 50 Gunnery, yes when someone jumps on you it's difficult, but for the most part, you do what you can to stay away from melee, hide behind corners as you shoot. It has flat out more burst to take down enemies than assault does. While casting Grav round for example and I have a sith assassin running and jumping all around me, my character auto moves to aim at him. The only annoying thing is the stuns, doesn't seem to have a Diminishing Return effect on them.

[xPrTx]

Fine, I'll do better this time.

 

30% damage reduction on your target

 

One of the best guilds in the game, Condemned, with just about every world first to date, has a tank with 6500 armor, and 22k hp.

 

6500 armor = 27% reduction IIRC.

 

The best tank in the world doesn't have 30%, so we can't really use 30% as our baseline average, can we?

 

Math Requests:

 

Do the math for how often DoT effects pushback abilities of healers, or damage dealers such as gunnery commandos, or sage's. (Survivability/Death Blows?)

 

Do the math for how often gunnery will be in position to use knockbacks offensively during WZ's (Teamwork?)

 

Do the math on how often your target will LoS you, causing you to lose tons of damage.

 

 

 

There are a lot more reasons why overall, AS will always beat Gunnery. Most notably, good players, will NEVER let a gunnery Commando free cast. Which brings me back to my original post, ignoring the baddie effect.

[Kenmuir]

One of the best guilds in the game, Condemned, with just about every world first to date, has a tank with 6500 armor, and 22k hp.

 

6500 armor = 27% reduction IIRC.

 

The best tank in the world doesn't have 30%, so we can't really use 30% as our baseline average, can we?

 

Math Requests:

 

 

It would have been nice if you had actually tweaked my math instead of just identifying a mistake and implying everything else is wrong, while demanding that I do all of the work. In debating, we call that "refutation," unfortunately there's a better way to have a debate, "refuting the central point". Which, in case you missed it, was that the 30% extra crit damage doesn't blow away the stacking buff from grav round. I didn't see you show anyone how that statement was false.

 

Do the math for how often DoT effects pushback abilities of healers, or damage dealers such as gunnery commandos, or sage's. (Survivability/Death Blows?)

 

I don't think Dots do pushback on abilities, but I'm not 100% on that. I think I remember getting all 3 shots off with Full Auto with DoTs on me, but I could be wrong. And for anything not channeled, a small pushback every 3 seconds on classes with 75%-100% pushback resistance isn't too important because you're most likely already attacking once per GCD(1.5 seconds).

 

But maybe you can do the math on how much better Assault is than Gunnery based on pushback. Although I do not think you will.

 

 

Do the math for how often gunnery will be in position to use knockbacks offensively during WZ's (Teamwork?)

 

Considering Gunnery has 1 more knockback, can use his knockback 50% more often, and can knock people back farther, I think that Gunnery would be in a better position in most cases to use a knockback offensively.

 

 

Do the math on how often your target will LoS you, causing you to lose tons of damage.

 

Hard to say, but can you show me some math about how your two DoTs, one on a 16% chance on weapon damage, or a 3 ammo ability with an 18 second restart is able to provide meaningful damage to the point that the damage you lose while not having LoS on you tarter is accounted for?

 

There are a lot more reasons why overall, AS will always beat Gunnery.

 

And they've yet to be stated with anything other than hyperbole, anecdotes, and assertions of fact, most notably this sentence.

 

Most notably, good players, will NEVER let a gunnery Commando free cast. Which brings me back to my original post, ignoring the baddie effect.

 

In order to deal meaningful damage, your Assault Commando also needs to cast his spells. Unless you just want to run around spamming Hammer Shot and thinking to yourself that you're a great help to your team.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Kenmuir

[juhalanz]

There are a lot more reasons why overall, AS will always beat Gunnery. Most notably, good players, will NEVER let a gunnery Commando free cast. Which brings me back to my original post, ignoring the baddie effect.

 

This statement works for any casting class, both healer and dps.

So i found it pretty pointless.

[xPrTx]

Hard to say, but can you show me some math about how your two DoTs, one on a 16% chance on weapon damage, or a 3 ammo ability with an 18 second restart is able to provide meaningful damage to the point that the damage you lose while not having LoS on you tarter is accounted for?

 

Plasma grenade + Tech Override?

 

Point is, most of our damage comes from abilities that ignore line of sight. If we can hit the button while your in LoS, our ability goes off.

 

 

However, when you hit Grav Round, I have a good 1.5 seconds where I can LoS you, and negate your damage. All while your taking "insignificant" damage from my dots.

 

I was legitimately going to answer the remaining quotes, but its 4am and im tired. Tommorow though.

[xPrTx]

Oh Ken, What are your thoughts on Secondary stats.

 

Pretty sure we both know accuracy to 100%, but after?

 

Id venture to say Crit PvE, given the refund for gunnery.

 

Alacrity looks appealing for PvP, Given that cast time skills do not have a GCD. Meaning if you were to reduce Grav Round to 1s, you could cast 3 Grav rounds in 3 seconds. There's a rumor that Alacrity also speeds up DoT times, though I do not know that for sure.

 

And it may be me being extremely tired, but I was thinking of messing hybrid Gunnery, just for stupidly high HIB damage. Thoughts?

[Leefn]

really hope a insane nerf is incomming for the commando. lvl50is doing 350-500k damage in warzones... kills anyone in less than 5sec. Bounty Hunter aint even close to that.

[MetallicaRulez]

really hope a insane nerf is incomming for the commando. lvl50is doing 350-500k damage in warzones... kills anyone in less than 5sec. Bounty Hunter aint even close to that.

 

Please Jesus stop spreading misinformation.

 

Mercenary and Commando are EXACTLY THE SAME. Every ability does the same damage and have the same coefficients. They're mirrored.

 

Also, if you can show me a screenshot of anyone doing 500k in a warzone, I'd be interested in seeing it. I'm a fully geared 50 Commando and the most I've ever seen was 380k, and that was against a team full of lowbies. The most I've seen from a screenshot was some uber-geared operative that hit 415k. 500k is a myth.

[xPrTx]

Also, if you can show me a screenshot of anyone doing 500k in a warzone, I'd be interested in seeing it. I'm a fully geared 50 Commando and the most I've ever seen was 380k, and that was against a team full of lowbies. The most I've seen from a screenshot was some uber-geared operative that hit 415k. 500k is a myth.

 

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/7433/500kheal.jpg

Edited January 3, 2012 by xPrTx

[Kenmuir]

Plasma grenade + Tech Override?

 

Point is, most of our damage comes from abilities that ignore line of sight. If we can hit the button while your in LoS, our ability goes off.

 

 

However, when you hit Grav Round, I have a good 1.5 seconds where I can LoS you, and negate your damage. All while your taking "insignificant" damage from my dots.

 

I was legitimately going to answer the remaining quotes, but its 4am and im tired. Tommorow though.

 

Great job finding the "one thing" that I left out. You really proved my point wrong there. Oh wait, gunnery can also cast Plasma Grenade + tech. But, the point was not about how many moves you have that can deal damage without LoS, it was about how much damage you deal while not in LoS. So please, so me how not "insignificant" that damage is. Unless you aren't sure how to do it.

 

 

 

Oh Ken, What are your thoughts on Secondary stats.

 

Pretty sure we both know accuracy to 100%, but after?

 

PvP you need 105% accuracy to push their base defense off the table. Any defense they have over that is stats they don't have in damage or healing. But I also don't know what people are going to do with their stats, so we'll see.

 

I don't know the avoidance on end game bosses, but I would guess it's a few more percent.

 

Id venture to say Crit PvE, given the refund for gunnery.

 

Alacrity looks appealing for PvP, Given that cast time skills do not have a GCD. Meaning if you were to reduce Grav Round to 1s, you could cast 3 Grav rounds in 3 seconds. There's a rumor that Alacrity also speeds up DoT times, though I do not know that for sure.

 

I don't think anyone knows for sure if Alacrity lowers the GCD. Even if it did, the class is already ammo capped well before we are GCD capped.

 

I also don't know enough about the damage table right now to say if crit would be better to stack over accuracy.

 

And it may be me being extremely tired, but I was thinking of messing hybrid Gunnery, just for stupidly high HIB damage. Thoughts?

 

Wouldn't work, Gunnery is forcused around Grav Round, Assault around Charged Bolts. You don't really gain any thing by dropping the top points from Assault into the middle talents of Gunnery.