Mercenary PVP Failure - Need Help

[Zencast]

So I have been failing miserably as a Mercenary in solo ranked arena. I've always been the hugest SW fan and came back over from WoW to knock the dust off my Mercenary. I was playing at 2k in WoW on a healer and was over 1900 on a melee and a ranged class. All that said, I know how to CC, I know how to peel.

 

I have been loosing like crazy in Arena the last few days. I've played mostly as Pyro and I get insta-focused, use everything I have to stay alive... then die. Rarely do the other teams focus anybody else. My DPS while I am alive is generally much higher then everyone else on my team. I crowd control on cooldown, I target whoever we agree that the target is. I have a focus modifier set up so I can also have a focus target to watch and can CC/Interrupt that target easily. My gear is half Obroan and is all augmented with the top Aim augment.

 

I hate to QQ but I notice that nearly every match nobody ever will focus the same target. We will agree upon a target but everyone usually starts attacking the closest person to them. Then usually 2 or 3 of the other team will get on me, I'll try and knock them back and run away, usually one or 2 of them will instantly have a gap closer, then I'll pop some more defensives, try to stun somebody, do some dps, use my one instant as a heal and the rest of my defensives, then medpack, then I'll be close to death. Meanwhile, I rarely see anybody peel, because everyone seems to be having an epic 1v1 somewhere else on the map.

 

That all said, I want to stress that this is not a QQ thread! I am wondering if anybody has some suggestions on how to be more successful in solo ranked. In Warzones I TEAR crap up, but in Arenas I feel like I'm a SUPER BADDIE. I mean, one guy just sent me a message in game after we lost and arena: "Just don't do ANY healing, ZERO, just do damage"... Somebody else told me to just attack anybody and not waste time trying to get in range of our focus target. Somebody else told me to not CC and just do damage... Many others have said to re-roll another class.

 

*** is a DPS Merc's job in Solo Ranked? Any help would be appreciated.

[TheRampage]

There is no help. In 4 dps vs 4 you will be targeted first and you will go down first. Same goes for matches with healer, it is easyer to kill you then operative/scoundrel healer. Simple as that.

 

What will prolong your life? Your team pushing first, pulling first, getting advantage and making opponents play defense. Other then that, nothing. They will find you, and they will kill you

[NathanielStarr]

Reroll.

 

You need to be one of the following for PvP.

 

Vanguard/Powertech, Marauder/Sentinel, Operative/Scoundrel (healers only), Juggernaut/Guardian, Assassin/Shadow or Sniper/Gunslinger

 

As a mercenary you have pretty much zero defenses and most of your enemies know it.

[cashogy_reborn]

Right now I would say that playing a Merc in Solo Arenas is the most frustrating thing you can do in this game. I guess what you should do is try to wait it out for ELO to settle; basically every is very close to the same level right now. Eventually you are supposed to end up playing with people that are closer to your skill level (both on your team and against you), so theoretically it should get better.

 

Personally, I think that the entire concept of Solo Ranked Arenas is flawed. There is a very real RNG element that exists (class comp + who your with/against) not to mention that ease at which you can queue sync still. And while for most people the RNG will level out, but there are going to be a lot of people who are stuck with bads much higher than "average".

Edited November 14, 2013 by cashogy_reborn

[Capt_Beers]

A Merc's role in solo queue is to not queue.

 

Sorry, but I'm only half kidding. Merc's require a good bit of support to perform well and you may or may not get that in solo queue. Merc DPS drops to 0 while focused and you will be the first focus target, even over a healer since you are easier to kill and likely won't be who the tank guards coming out of the gate.

[cashogy_reborn]

Yea you are going to be the first target almost every single time. Which means a large part of your survivability falls to your group members. If the tank cant taunt + guard swap, if your healer is awful, there is nothing you can do.

 

PvP in this game is very deeply rooted in the group dynamic. Taking a game mode where 4 random people of random classes and potentially random skill level form a team and then calling it "competitive" is hilarious.

[Monterone]

First of all, you get attacked because you don't have any real defensive cooldowns, and that's because you can heal to full and you have heavy armor. Don't hate me for saying you can heal to full, I understand it's BS, but that's the penalty for having a healing tree according to BW. Your only saving grace is having a dps sorc on your team, since they are squishier than you and go down even faster, and have no cooldowns compared to even you.

 

The other reason is because you have the most irritating and hated ability in the game -- Electro Net. A team needs to make sure Net doesn't get cast twice in the same round, simple as that.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Monterone

[Sangrar]

I know where you are coming from bud, I am a commando heals. Yeah really. I am only winning half the matches I play, yet I checked I have more wins than many other commandos do at this moment ( it is very likely to change but still, for today at 6:18 I got more wins than most commandos that if organized from most to least wins I am on page 2) sadly I only have 7 wins, sadder by the fact today most commandos and mercs got a lot less. When I go into ranked arenas the people in my groups panic. Half of the groups I am in curse me out, saying I should not que for ranked as a mando, it works out for me half the time. Sometimes like the last match I played today the team questioned me considering there was an operative healer on the imp team and I am just a commando, but I gave them all a good surprise, in the first round I kept my whole team alive including myself, and at the end of that round I sarcastically asked "so what were you saying about commando heals?" to which they all laughed, second time around the other team focused me more as at that point they knew I was a threat and I was killed, but not before their operative went down and I had topped my teammates off enough to survive the rest. I got all the MVP votes, they knew I did my job, though without the guard and the fact my team was good dps I can honestly say without a doubt that we would have lost horribly.

 

That was one of my luckier matches. In a previous match it had gone badly. The whole imp team was on me, in seconds I was down and the operative healer, the team clearly pointed out, had healed 100k more than I had that round alone. I was the worst member, the squishiest, and in a few matches like that I was cursed out and told "don't que for ranked again", of course I did anyway and one of those who cursed me out kept cursing me out more every time I got grouped with her, even though in 1 match with her we won and everyone else but her thought I did a good job. Still, half and half with wins and losses, and I have been cursed out repeatedly for that as well as trashed on the fleet for being a healer commando. Seriously Bioware, while I have always argued we are not as bad off as people seem to think, we need a tad more defensibility and a little more mobility.

 

In conclusion, all I can say is stock up on medpacks, adrenals, cybertech seismic grenades ( make for a good escape) and make sure your team goes in first so that way the team will target them more likely than they will target you, because while we can produce good heals or damage, when defending ourselves against 3 dps's who won't stop til we are dead healing or dpsing is not our strong suit. Also keep moving, only stay long enough to drop a cast then move, electronet any melee dps that comes through, that way you can run and they won't be able to do much when out of melee range, and lastly hope your team takes out their healer before they take out your healer if you are heals, I have won against teams with scoundrels/operative in them but only when my team focuses that healer so much he goes down before the other team takes you out, that way your team can still benefit from your heals while the other team won't have anything but their medpacks to help them.

[Laforet]

PvP in this game is very deeply rooted in the group dynamic. Taking a game mode where 4 random people of random classes and potentially random skill level form a team and then calling it "competitive" is hilarious.

 

Unless youre a warrior and can just rofl train everyone the whole day even with mininal team support.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Laforet

[madtycoon]

So I have been failing miserably as a Mercenary in solo ranked arena. I've always been the hugest SW fan and came back over from WoW to knock the dust off my Mercenary. I was playing at 2k in WoW on a healer and was over 1900 on a melee and a ranged class. All that said, I know how to CC, I know how to peel.

 

...

 

*** is a DPS Merc's job in Solo Ranked? Any help would be appreciated.

 

Peeling, CCing, using the focus frame, not just thinking damage...

 

What you're describing is what makes a successful player in WOW. It doesn't translate as well here. SWTOR rewards players for pumping mongoloid damage. You can peel all you want, but non tanks really can't control enough for that mindset to make much of a difference.

 

Proper crowd control use is marginally better here. You know how in WOW you have to think before using your trinket or better players will penalize you? If you waste trinket on say a rogue's cheap shot, he can blind->sap->sap->redirect kidney->dismantle and you're out of the game for 30+ seconds, because you made a mistake.

 

Yeah, that's not SWTOR. When a player needlessly uses break on like a stun or some ****, you can only take them out of the game for like 8 seconds with a mez and those mezzes all have long cooldowns. Trading two globals for those 8 seconds is better, but it won't make that much of a difference. Meanwhile, a sentinel who pacifies a healer or a sin that knocks back into white bar and only taunts his kill target can still hit for 8-9k.

 

You are probably not playing flawless. I mean everyone can improve, but honestly this game does not reward a player's skill level as well as a game like WOW. WOW isn't perfect in this regard either, but the developers here don't seem interested in anything other than damage, healing and protection output. Your personal play won't matter as much if you are not focused on those three categories the majority of the time, especially in solo ranked queues.

 

Most solo queue games will favor classes like marauders, sins and powertechs... Classes with strong defensives, upfront/retard-friendly burst and hard to peel/stop. Mercs are stronger with a tank, because their defensive cooldowns can be spread out and they can actually set things up with electro net. Unfortunately it is rare to see tank/healer/double dps mirrors in solo queue. To be fair to SWTOR, those mirrors are what the game is designed around, so any pvp that does not have the proper blend of those roles isn't going to be good. This is probably what you're experiencing. That's why they have group queue.

Edited November 14, 2013 by madtycoon

[MrSIlverSurfing]

I got tired of all the rage whispers on my merc, so i quit playing him. I raged so much that I deleted swtor off my pc. Lol. They are good in regular WZs, but shouldn't even step into a ranked WZ. The fac tis look at the leader boards. 50 marauders over 1400 and like 7 mercs. You notice those mercs haven't played many games either. Edited November 14, 2013 by MrSIlverSurfing

[AlrikFassbauer]

There is no help. In 4 dps vs 4 you will be targeted first and you will go down first. Same goes for matches with healer, it is easyer to kill you then operative/scoundrel healer. Simple as that.

 

You forgot Sages / Sorcerors.

[Nebdar]

Depending on your spec

The Bodyguard has the biggest survivability then i would say next is Pyro and last Arsenal..(as a survivability i mean survive the pressure when no one from your team mates can/want to help you)

What i use for regular arenas as pyro Merc(but you can use it too with other specs)

- turn on your Kolto Overload as soon as you feel that battle starts..one less button to click when under pressure

- when you are not confident that your team mates will think about helping you use/save your Power Surge for Rapid Scan

- i don't regret nor in regular WZ or Arenas to use all tricks at my disposal when i feel that is the right time(even when that move was mistake i learn from it). The WZ/Arenas are so quick that is more of game of reflex/quick thinking then slow strategy planning PvE fight

- you can also use Power Surge for instant Concussion Missile

[Eterud]

I'm doing fair in pvp as pyromerch,

 

My main problem is low health though.

 

my setup:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300ZMccZfhrbdRrffdz.3

 

gear:

4x Obraon

rest conquerer,

9x Reflex augments

health: 27.7k (unbuffed)

Aim: 2560

Expertise: 2018

 

as said my main problem is the health,

 

But then again IF i survive the first burst, we win the game.

Mercs are very strong in pvp, IF your team protects you.

For example if you're running a

1x tank 1x healer 1x rdps(you) and 1x melee.

 

The tank should have guard on you for the first burst, and afterwards switch it to the healer.

Melee should be there to slow the melee-ers attacking you.

Healer should focus heal on you.

 

And ofcourse you burst all your defensive moves.

(Break stun, knockback, energy shield, chaff flare, immune to CC+Slows, kolto overload, kolto missile.)

 

If your team works together+you do what you should do, then they need to have around 100k damage in the first burst.

 

Next to that I suggestthat all pvp mercs become a cybertech for the reusable grenades.

a stun vs 3 ppl or an "unconsious"(can't remmeber the correct name atm) on 5 ppl around you is VERY strong in pvp, especially as merc.)

 

as said before by other posters: Positioning is Key, LoS kite, make sure your team is the aggressive one.

Run in, unstealth their stealthers, start nuking their healer/tank/weak dps and you got in 75% of the cases a win.

 

 

 

As to the other question: WHat is our job in ranked.

 

I see my job as merc as a few things.

 

#1 Providing support

#2 Burning the healers power/focus whatever you call it

#3 providing damage on ALL the players.

 

 

To say this:

 

#1 providing support:

We are not damage dealers...No we are not, our damage is very low.

HOWEVER:

our strengths as pyromerc are:

- Dots, put dots on as many targets as possible. it makes it harder for their healer to heal.

- Provide stuns/slows so your other teammates can finnish the target

- Provide a burst when the target is 30% or less health. (IM>ED>TD>RS>UL>RS>MB Spam goes a far way)

- Provide offheals for team members

-strategically using knockbacks to save your teammembers.

 

#2 Burning the healers focus/power etc.

With our dots, we can dot several players and then target the healer.

This in combination of the focussed damage of your teammembers will burn your opponents healer's power/focus/(MANA xD) down quickly. no power/focus = no or less heals, making it easier to kill those more tankability teams.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Eterud
added an "asnwer" to the second question

[Wainamoinen]

There is no help. In 4 dps vs 4 you will be targeted first and you will go down first.

 

I can think of at least three other classes who also claim this. Not everyone can be targeted first, it's not just an issue for mercs/mandos. Any class with high output potential and no "lol can't kill me" ability will of course be a priority target.

 

Similar to something I just wrote in another thread, assuming enough players, then once the ranked-matching shakes out it shouldn't be such a problem. Good commandos would be matched against middling players in average specs and baddie FOTM specs, so all bring about as much to the arena.

 

I don't think this is ideal and it means that without class balancing you'd better forget top rankings on a weak spec, but it does mean you get to win half the time. Finally: I don't expect it to make you feel any better, but if you feel a 55 Merc has no defences then don't try a DPS Scoundrel/Ops. I've played all four ACs at 55 to compare.

[Umbradomina]

I got tired of all the rage whispers on my merc, so i quit playing him. I raged so much that I deleted swtor off my pc. Lol. They are good in regular WZs, but shouldn't even step into a ranked WZ. The fac tis look at the leader boards. 50 marauders over 1400 and like 7 mercs. You notice those mercs haven't played many games either.

 

I too am tired of the raging at me for my Merc's "shortcomings". So, I've made a decision.... once the match starts, I turn off Ops chat and don't talk to anybody. I pay my sub, my toon is qualified and I'm gonna play it in solo ranked if I want to. The Hell with the elitist *****hats in the game. I know if we're up against a team with 2 Sins/Shadows, I'm going down hard and fast. Same goes to 1 stealth and a VG/PT... pull, permastun and dead.

 

I don't care anymore. I want to do well, and I want to win... but I also want to play, and am not going to stop because the game's shortcomings might have an adverse impact on my pug members' ranking.

[Umbradomina]

I can think of at least three other classes who also claim this. Not everyone can be targeted first, it's not just an issue for mercs/mandos. Any class with high output potential and no "lol can't kill me" ability will of course be a priority target.

 

I don't care who claims what. All I know is what I've experienced over the Arenas since they went live... and I'm clearly not alone. Roll a Merc, if you don't already have one, and play the Ranked. Better yet, look at the rankings and see how many Mercs are in the top 25% vs. the bottom 25%. Not all Mercs can possibly be that bad to wind up in the bottom tier.

[TheRampage]

I can think of at least three other classes who also claim this. Not everyone can be targeted first, it's not just an issue for mercs/mandos. Any class with high output potential and no "lol can't kill me" ability will of course be a priority target.

 

Similar to something I just wrote in another thread, assuming enough players, then once the ranked-matching shakes out it shouldn't be such a problem. Good commandos would be matched against middling players in average specs and baddie FOTM specs, so all bring about as much to the arena.

 

I don't think this is ideal and it means that without class balancing you'd better forget top rankings on a weak spec, but it does mean you get to win half the time. Finally: I don't expect it to make you feel any better, but if you feel a 55 Merc has no defences then don't try a DPS Scoundrel/Ops. I've played all four ACs at 55 to compare.

Not really. You focus merc/commando, esp if he is arsenal first beacuse if left untouched he can destroy your team. Not afraid of sages/sorcs that much.

 

You focus sniper as well, but they are much harder to hit and can be losed, so people tend to rather go on healer then on sniper whill have free cast on you in that time.

 

Operative/scoundrel heals are just poor, I agree.

[Wainamoinen]

Not really. You focus merc/commando, esp if he is arsenal first beacuse if left untouched he can destroy your team. Not afraid of sages/sorcs that much.

Being able to do damage if left to freecast isn't a special handicap of mercs. It's part of being ranged.

 

Ther are also the stealth DPS classes, who will be bashed as soon as they are visible and vulnerable.

 

You focus sniper as well, but they are much harder to hit and can be losed, so people tend to rather go on healer then on sniper whill have free cast on you in that time..

Hmm, line of sight only applies to snipers?

Operative/scoundrel heals are just poor, I agree.

See in my post where it says "DPS"? That stands for "Damage Per Second", and is used as shorthand for damge-dealing specs. That means "not healers". I hope that's clearer for you now, as you seemed to miss the point there.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Wainamoinen

[Kerensk]

I love solo ranked on my commando. I have only lost a few matches on him but it does get miserable when you get focused. Also I'd play middle tree instead of right tree for the burst you need in arenas.

 

I totally agree with taking the initiative and put the enemy on the defense.

First off convince your team to focus a DPS instead of a healer first. Tell them to cc and interrupt the healer while you kill the DPS. If there was one thing I could convince the PvP player base it would be to not focus healers at the start of an arena. In the seconds they eat while stunned you can eliminate 1/3 of their team's damage output. Healer focusing is great in 8v8, but 4v4 it's often better to make them the 2nd or 3rd target.

 

Target a marauder/Sentinel (or jugg/Guardian) first. As you rush into battle spam Electro-net as you close so it fires at 29.9m. Once the leaper is stuck they fall amazingly fast if even 1 other teammate helps you kill them. Just the split seconds you gain while they puzzle about not leaping helps, they're usually too overconfident of the easy kill and your can quickly gain the upper hand. If they're foolish they will burn the cc breaker to use their leap, them you can stun and finish them.

 

It also helps keep you at good range, the leapers are always their front line and come into range first. As soon as your net fires you freeze long enough for 2 grav round/tracers, then run again staying 30m from the net, and away from the other enemies. This will stretch out their formation in case your team is too new to know to focus fire.

 

By time it's 4 on 3 you're probably being focused, there is not alot you can do but try to delay death long enough for your teammates to get another kill in. It's a difficult dance but it is possible to survive annoyingly long.

 

But I love seeing a marauder on the opposition. They are so squishy once rooted with a net it's almost insta kill. And it happens so fast the healer often doesn't know what happened till its too late. And the enemies plans collapse fast losing a member so early on.

 

The commando/Merc knockback is the greatest as well, boot them off catwalks or into the mini pit in tatooine. The seconds lost getting back in position are invaluable to your team.