Why not try to help PUGs?

[DanNV]

LOL... 13 years in the hotel industry has really worn the sharp edges down on how I'm saying it, but yeah. This ^^

 

Oh, and he hasn't ever said he was in the military. I mentioned his behavior sounds like something out of Marine Corps boot camp and also mentioned that I'd previously been in the military. That's where the reference comes from.

 

I've tried saying it nice but the idea didn't seem to get across, so I was a bit more blunt. Just not as blunt as I was thinking.

 

Yeah, I know he didn't. I just suggested he try looking into real leadership in many forms including the military and he'll find his ideas don't hold water.

 

To me, it's a shame people like this are allowed to stay. It gives the PVP community a really bad name. I know all sorts of people who won't even think about PVP because of his type of attitude. They've run into just enough of this attitude during the Gree event to never want anything to do with PvP, period. Sad thing is, I expect he wonders why it's hard to get full teams, why queues take too long, etc.

[EilahFinn]

I've tried saying it nice but the idea didn't seem to get across, so I was a bit more blunt. Just not as blunt as I was thinking.

 

 

To me, it's a shame people like this are allowed to stay. It gives the PVP community a really bad name. I know all sorts of people who won't even think about PVP because of his type of attitude... Sad thing is, I expect he wonders why it's hard to get full teams, why queues take too long, etc.

 

The sad thing is, there are still people around who don´ t even get the basics of anything.

 

I do not expect a rookie pvper to master the movement and reaction aspects of pvp.

 

But I do expect that these guys use stims.

I do expect that these guys use augments.

I do expect that these guys search for information on these forums. There are plenty of faq´s or how-to´s around.

This shouldn´ t be too much for anyone.

 

These things above are nothing but basics.

 

If I have to run with 3-4 guys with 1000-1500 expertise (in BOLSTERINGTIMES) who are not even using stims or any augments, my enrage timer is ticking...no doubt...patience is no option after having made this experience too often...

 

Equip is a basic.

Skill will hopefully come around sooner or later. (But not to people who just do not know how to prepare on the basics)

...after two years of swtor pvp the one or the other could get tired of things that just seem to repeat and not to improve...

Edited November 13, 2013 by EilahFinn

[knownastherat]

The sad thing is, there are still people around who don´ t even get the basics of anything.

 

I do not expect a rookie pvper to master the movement and reaction aspects of pvp.

 

But I do expect that these guys use stims.

I do expect that these guys use augments.

I do expect that these guys search for information on these forums. There are plenty of faq´s or how-to´s around.

This shouldn´ t be too much for anyone.

 

These things above are nothing but basics.

 

If I have to run with 3-4 guys with 1000-1500 expertise (in BOLSTERINGTIMES) who are not even using stims or any augments, my enrage timer is ticking...no doubt...patience is no option after having made this experience too often...

 

Equip is a basic.

Skill will hopefully come around sooner or later. (But not to people who just do not know how to prepare on the basics)

...after two years of swtor pvp the one or the other could get tired of things that just seem to repeat and not to improve...

 

Such expectations are perhaps realistic and justified for competitive PvP. For the so-called casual one it just does not hold. Lets not even argue about this, what ought to be is matter of opinion. The fact is that certain % of players does not and probably will not meet such expectations ever for whatever reason.

 

From the millions of SWTOR accounts ever active, how many came to forums, for example, and how many follow them on regular basis? Lets just be realistic and try to design a system which allows for as diverse playing philosophy as possible.

 

To make everyone happy there needs to be option so both camps, the bads and the gods, do not need to be patient with each other if they do not wish to be. PUGs will be PUGs. I just like to write that

Edited November 13, 2013 by knownastherat

[sanchito]

,,,

 

Note, people who rage in chat get on my ignore list. If they get run over guarding or don't get help they need, that's their problem because it's a direct result of their own behavior. If enough people did that ragers might end up going somewhere else and thereby improving the PVP community. God knows, the community needs to improve it's image if it wants to grow instead of shrink.

 

Yeah i do the exact same thing. If we lose a game because of it i can deal with it just fine, they usually take it way harder.

 

The idea that raging at people somehow helps the community is ridiculous, it's the exact opposite. In order for a game to succeed it needs a steady inflow of new players to make up for those who leave, and this requires an environment that entices new players to keep playing and get better, not make them feel unwanted and leave forever.

[Dimdeo]

The idea that raging at people somehow helps the community is ridiculous, it's the exact opposite. In order for a game to succeed it needs a steady inflow of new players to make up for those who leave, and this requires an environment that entices new players to keep playing and get better, not make them feel unwanted and leave forever.

 

This.

[PhilD]

Note, people who rage in chat get on my ignore list. If they get run over guarding or don't get help they need, that's their problem because it's a direct result of their own behavior.

 

Actually it's a result of players who aren't smart enough to watch the map to see where people are, and the ops frame to see what their teammates' health is at, but think they're being oh-so-clever by ensuring that they can't see the angry-making people in chat.

[PhilD]

Just for the sake of argument, no matter how good a player you might be, it's probably ill-advised to refer to people who have revealed that they are perhaps 20-30 years older than you as "kiddos" and "child." It makes you look like a bit of a schmuck.

[ZooMzy]

Just for the sake of argument, no matter how good a player you might be, it's probably ill-advised to refer to people who have revealed that they are perhaps 20-30 years older than you as "kiddos" and "child." It makes you look like a bit of a schmuck.

 

I refer to their arguments for the term, rather than actual age.

 

Based on their ignorance over my argument, their "I'm going to argue because its wrong but I can't explain why" type arguments, and their question of my personal character, I judge them as "kiddos".

[Seireeni]

"I'm going to argue because its wrong but I can't explain why".

 

It's wrong, because it hurts other people.

There you go. The explanation.

[PhilD]

Ah, I see, you actually are a schmuck. Noted, and moving on.

[ZooMzy]

It's wrong, because it hurts other people.

There you go. The explanation.

 

Refer back to page 11.

 

Already addressed this as aspect, as negative emotions experienced by harsh criticism are removed once the player improves into a decent/good player.

 

And cool, glad you feel that way. GG and have a nice day, "schmuck"

[PhilD]

Anyway, there are times IMO when raging is just being a jerk, and times when it's appropriate.

 

Was playing a match with my lvl 28 scoundrel yesterday, and after a couple of focus-fire incidents, typed nicely, "Hey, guys, if you want me to heal effectively it would be nice if you'd try to peel when you see me getting focus-fired by 3-4 people." Nobody did, of course. (I was still the leading healer between me and another scoundrel.)

 

Was in another match, a Hypergates, with my 55 sniper. At lvl 55 you should expect that people have some idea how to PvP. After we had already gotten stealth capped in the first round, a teammate went to the pylon, capped it, then ran away to mid, leaving it unguarded. Before anyone else could get there, the stealther that had been hanging out capped, and as 2-3 of us arrived, we were swarmed by enemy reinfocements. That teammate knew the objective was not safe, lost it as a direct result of his actions, and didn't come help as we tried to retake it. He got a whole bunch of capital letters from me.

 

Same with the guys in the Huttball match who ran out of the spawn and jumped into the pit to deathmatch instead of trying to help our ball carrier, in a game we were losing.

[Seireeni]

Refer back to page 11.

 

Already addressed this as aspect, as negative emotions experienced by harsh criticism are removed once the player improves into a decent/good player.

 

No, they are not. Because no matter who this raging is targeted at, I still have to tolerate that raging in the chat. (Since I'm a good girl and keep an eye on the chat in case of i.e. inc calling.) And I'm afraid there will always be players who you consider worth raging.

 

Let me put this explanation in another way.

Me, and many other people, think this is wrong, because me, and many other people, think hurting others is wrong.

 

You, in the other hand, don't consider this an explanation, because you seem to think that hurting others is right, as long as you have noble goals (like "making them better players").

[Jadescythe]

Why has this gone on for 11 pages? I'm not helping PUGs because if you can't take 20 minutes outside of the game to learn a class/spec/warzone, then what are the chances of me getting you to do better during a warzone where you probably aren't reading chat anyway?

 

If it's sub 55 bracket, then I might give it a shot since they could legitimately not know. But if you already have a bunch of PvP gear and still don't understand that stalling people is better than killing people in VS after a cap, you're on your own.

[ZooMzy]

No, they are not. Because no matter who this raging is targeted at, I still have to tolerate that raging in the chat. (Since I'm a good girl and keep an eye on the chat in case of i.e. inc calling.) And I'm afraid there will always be players who you consider worth raging.

 

Jeez, does anyone read nowadays?

 

For the last time, I'm referring to general PvP chat on the Fleet. Your ignorance is starting to become annoying, please correct it.

 

Let me put this explanation in another way.

Me, and many other people, think this is wrong, because me, and many other people, think hurting others is wrong.

 

Then quite frankly, you are in the wrong type of game mode because competition can easily be defined as torture. You are hurting yourself, fighting against an enemy in hopes of defeating them. While the physical element doesn't exist, the mental battle remains, meaning that you are going to be experiencing a form of torture by competing against another, no matter how casual the game may be.

 

So if hurting others should be opposed at all costs, then PvP should not exist. But since it does and the fun comes from the battle, your self righteous approach has little sway in actual performance of a player.

 

You, in the other hand, don't consider this an explanation, because you seem to think that hurting others is right, as long as you have noble goals (like "making them better players").

 

Correct, as I have aptly put above. Emotions and negative thoughts hold no sway over a Preston's capability to learn, until pride advocates them to challenge something they disagree with.

 

So yeah, comprehension this time please?

[georgemattson]

Did you read? Because you are still arguing about chat in WZ, when I've explicitly told you I'm referring to general PvP chat on Fleet.

 

My apologies; the arguments are getting a bit long, and I think I missed that. However, are you trying to say that ranting in general chat is somehow justified, then? Are you backing off of your claim that it's okay in a WZ environment? I'm afraid I'm not quite following here. Please explain.

 

Like apparently the rest of this kiddos here, I think you need to back and read before you decide you don't like an argument. Unless you also want to get caught up in the misguided self righteous nonsense that ultimately has led to the negative aspect of player quality on SWTOR.

 

Where do you get this "self-righteous" thing from? I haven't espoused that point of view, nor do I see anyone else doing so either. Refusing to deal with a certain type of behavior isn't self-righteous. Or are you trying to say that everyone has to listen to everyone you say? Isn't that a bit self serving? Perhaps the people who ignore you in a chat (or elsewhere) simply don't want to listen to you.

 

I'll answer it again, but this time, I expect you to actually read my responses. I'd rather not argue logic with a child that can't see past his own misguided nonsense to realize that someone actually answered his questions and he should respond to those, rather than continuously ask new questions in the face of getting shut down.

 

Again, my apologies, but I don't see any "answers" from you. Only more arguments. To me, it looks like you're just repeating yourself over and over, with no evidence to back up what you say.

 

You mentioned your argument had no intention to reflect on my character, yet now you're asking for personal information? No, I think I'll let your mind wander on that one, to show you just how ignorant you are when your pride wanders around the notion of me being to young to comprehend something you believe in.

 

I am sorry if it came across that way. My question regarding your age had to do with how your presenting your argument and with your belief that ranting at people is somehow justified. This isn't the type of behavior I see in most 30-40 year somethings, and only rarely in 20-somethings. My thought was that you might be in your early teens or younger. You are remarkably articulate for someone of that age, but your argument comes across (and maybe this is just my interpretation) as coming from someone without a lot of the type of filtering that most adults learn over the course of later adulthood. That doesn't mean it's wrong, nor was it intended as a value judgment on you as a person; some of the smartest people I've known have been very young, and even if you were to mention that you were 12 years old, I wouldn't hold it against you.

 

Secondly, realize that interactions in cyber space and situations you present are face to face encounters, where the real life examples have more of social strain than mean words. Keyboard warriors are different, and if people get so distraught over simple text, then they need to thicken their skin. Bashings in real life are entirely different, as you present more to the table than just words.

 

Interactions in cyber space are not face to face by definition. Not sure where you're getting that. Personally, I would hope that if you were in a face to face environment, your behavior would be significantly different, as I imagine you would be ostracized fairly quickly for behavior in the way you do or, worse, potentially inspire some very angry interactions.

 

Yes I sure have, where my methods of leadership vary in terms of the subject. My actions differ from the mindset I hold for people in things like my old managerial position at a local clothing store, to the casual RP guild I run, to the progression ops group I main tank for, and even the university cross country team I run for where the overall methods between all of those varying types of leadership hold different styles of leadership.

 

PvP and the UNI XC team share similarities, but the difference like I said is the limit face to face encounters need, like I stated above.

 

I'd be curious if you could expand on the interactions you've had at the clothing store? Did you rant at your associates, and did that inspire them? Or were you more relaxed and at least somewhat patient?

 

Go back and read. I listed the various testimony, and have even LaVall from my server backing up the type of player base we have on BC. If you don't want to bother reading this time, then you can continue trying to argue this point in ignorance like the rest of these self righteous kiddos

 

Page 11, I think. It's the response to the first questions you asked, that you probably forgot.

 

I read through page 11 again (and 12, where his comment was). I still don't see this proof you mention. One anecdote from a player who chooses not to help PUGs any more isn't "proof" that ranting leads to improved play. Or am I missing something? Can you quote it, if so?

 

 

Finally, I would ask that you leave off with the insults. I haven't insulted you; my question about your age was a legitimate question to try and determine your point of reference.

Edited November 13, 2013 by georgemattson

[georgemattson]

Jeez, does anyone read nowadays?

 

For the last time, I'm referring to general PvP chat on the Fleet. Your ignorance is starting to become annoying, please correct it.

 

Or is it possible you may have been unclear? As a teacher once told me, "If a piece of writing is unclear, it's not the audience's fault for misunderstanding. It's the writer's fault for not being clear."

 

Then quite frankly, you are in the wrong type of game mode because competition can easily be defined as torture. You are hurting yourself, fighting against an enemy in hopes of defeating them. While the physical element doesn't exist, the mental battle remains, meaning that you are going to be experiencing a form of torture by competing against another, no matter how casual the game may be.

 

So if hurting others should be opposed at all costs, then PvP should not exist. But since it does and the fun comes from the battle, your self righteous approach has little sway in actual performance of a player.

 

Or perhaps you take this a bit too seriously? Many of us are more than happy to do our utmost to completely destroy the competition, yet still have fun and do so without any intent to do anything to another person outside of the game environment. In other words, we know how to "play nice.' It IS just a game, by the way. My life doesn't come crashing to an end if I lose in a WZ. Does yours?

 

Correct, as I have aptly put above. Emotions and negative thoughts hold no sway over a Preston's capability to learn, until pride advocates them to challenge something they disagree with.

 

So yeah, comprehension this time please?

 

Forgive me for saying, but they absolutely do seem to have an impact on you. Your responses are growing increasingly angry and rude. Was this intentional, or simply an accident? Heck, my wife says I'm often very rude without even realizing it, so don't feel like you're alone if that's the case.

[Seireeni]

Jeez, does anyone read nowadays?

 

For the last time, I'm referring to general PvP chat on the Fleet. Your ignorance is starting to become annoying, please correct it.

 

I'm afraid I missed that part - did you mention it in some point you were posting to Georgemattson? (I'm afraid I only read the ones you directed at me.) Though, I read half of the posts last night at the middle of the night, might have been too tired to notice everything.

 

But it seems that we don't only differ in our morality, but also in how we view pvp. You don't seem to understand that not everyone views pvp as you do, or maybe you just don't want to allow that?

 

Anyway, I think I should this argueing to Georgemattson - he seems to have the patience of an angel, while I don't.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Or is it possible you may have been unclear? As a teacher once told me, "If a piece of writing is unclear, it's not the audience's fault for misunderstanding. It's the writer's fault for not being clear."

 

There's a joke going round. Quoted from my memory (it's several years ago since I read it the last time) :

 

Something gets broken during use.

An American says : "Why did get broken ?"

An European says : "What did I do wrong ?"

 

The jest of this joke here is, that

 

American -> ouwards oriented (object oriented)

European -> inwards oriented (subject oriented)

 

so, there might actually be severe cultural problems in understanding things. Severe ones.

 

 

And, besides, I still stromgly believe that no serious PvP player wants to help PUGs - because helping that erases the possibility to get easy wins.

 

And easy wins - PvP is NOTHING BUT about easy wins !

 

Why has this gone on for 11 pages? I'm not helping PUGs because if you can't take 20 minutes outside of the game to learn a class/spec/warzone, then what are the chances of me getting you to do better during a warzone where you probably aren't reading chat anyway?

 

So, you are one of those who want Easy Wins ?

 

Ah, I see, you actually are a schmuck. Noted, and moving on.

 

"Schmuck" means "jewellery" in German language, by the way.

(And "Schwartz" without the "t" means "black" in German language.)

Edited November 13, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[ZooMzy]

My apologies; the arguments are getting a bit long, and I think I missed that. However, are you trying to say that ranting in general chat is somehow justified, then? Are you backing off of your claim that it's okay in a WZ environment? I'm afraid I'm not quite following here. Please explain.

 

Yes, I conceded earlier that ranting in ops chat during the middle of a WZ will usually be ineffective. My point from the example I gave much earlier in regards to someone's capability to learn despite their emotions towards the criticizer was to illustrate that, not to encourage people to stop the game and criticize in the middle of a match.

 

Where do you get this "self-righteous" thing from? I haven't espoused that point of view, nor do I see anyone else doing so either. Refusing to deal with a certain type of behavior isn't self-righteous. Or are you trying to say that everyone has to listen to everyone you say? Isn't that a bit self serving? Perhaps the people who ignore you in a chat (or elsewhere) simply don't want to listen to you.

 

Self righteous behavior usually involves the defending party arguing a point without making a correlation to anything besides morality. You and the other opposition I have seen here in this thread have repeatedly incited that ranting and hurtful words discourage people from playing, yet you have provided no counter to the aspect that you are only referring to a subsection of casual gamers and that you still have yet to discount the logic behind the learning process being detached from actual emotion if the person of question is determined to learn.

 

Because of that, I can claim many of the arguments being presented to points I have already addressed and countered as self righteous nonsense. Whether or not you read, listen, understand, or bother with it is not my concern. I am here to speak my mind and the overall truth; I can't force you to accept my opinion.

 

Do I need to repeat the horse to water analogy?

 

Again, my apologies, but I don't see any "answers" from you. Only more arguments. To me, it looks like you're just repeating yourself over and over, with no evidence to back up what you say.

 

Scroll up to page 11 or 12 then. I have given you testimony, I have shown you the process of the human mind in the aspect of becoming better. I even have a member of my server, LaVall, agreeing with me in regards to how bad the pugs on our server are and how they are showcasing the very aspect I have introduced to you in the original posting.

 

I am sorry if it came across that way. My question regarding your age had to do with how your presenting your argument and with your belief that ranting at people is somehow justified. This isn't the type of behavior I see in most 30-40 year somethings, and only rarely in 20-somethings. My thought was that you might be in your early teens or younger. You are remarkably articulate for someone of that age, but your argument comes across (and maybe this is just my interpretation) as coming from someone without a lot of the type of filtering that most adults learn over the course of later adulthood. That doesn't mean it's wrong, nor was it intended as a value judgment on you as a person; some of the smartest people I've known have been very young, and even if you were to mention that you were 12 years old, I wouldn't hold it against you.

 

My argument with you has been unbiased and completely logical with you up until this point. You were the catalyst, bringing in the question of age when it clearly has no purpose in here if I am sending you full structured grammatical sentences and no actual curses upon you.

 

And the reason why you do not see this type of behavior in adults is that many don't care. They are part of the sect of people that play in something competitive that fall in the egotistical category of bads I mention, but they have the maturity not to throw their opinion on the line.

 

It's the ones who are willing to have their opinions challenged that respond. Whether or not they change is to be seen, but the clash is what I am still here for.

 

Interactions in cyber space are not face to face by definition. Not sure where you're getting that. Personally, I would hope that if you were in a face to face environment, your behavior would be significantly different, as I imagine you would be ostracized fairly quickly for behavior in the way you do or, worse, potentially inspire some very angry interactions.

 

It is, and that is my overall point: face to face interaction is different than cyberspace. The argument that indecency leads to failure from pugs is not sound because this is the anonymous interweb, where the development of thick skin should be advocated over the idea that someone is being overly excessive in ruthlessness. You can not hurt or attack someone behind a screen or monitor, you can not intimidate another in the negative way that will hinder the learning process such as physical beatings.

 

You can only berate and criticize, which neither one is going to force a player to quit unless they are not willing to turn their paper thick skin into something more tough for the competition. Hence, why I claim ranting with criticism is useful to improve, as it separates the people who aren't meant for PvP from the ones who are.

 

I'd be curious if you could expand on the interactions you've had at the clothing store? Did you rant at your associates, and did that inspire them? Or were you more relaxed and at least somewhat patient?

 

I actually did not, although I treated my employees with a sense of complete realism. If they mess up, such as extra change to a customer, failing to fold articles of clothing properly, etc. then I basically told them as bluntly as possible about the job they failed at. I remained honest, I would try to see if there were underlying issues we could fix, and I would tell them the consequences of the action.

 

Ranting and overall rage in the work place has usually negative results, as the face to face interaction nearly cripples the success of it in addition to the fact that meeting quotas or leading a staff of employees isn't the same type of competition as player vs player. My ops group, were I main tank, has a similar approach to this and to answer the other aspects below, my casual RP guild operates in a very lax system of leadership where there is nothing they can do that will upset me, since RP isn't competition.

 

I read through page 11 again (and 12, where his comment was). I still don't see this proof you mention. One anecdote from a player who chooses not to help PUGs any more isn't "proof" that ranting leads to improved play. Or am I missing something? Can you quote it, if so?

 

See above. Already addressed this.

 

Finally, I would ask that you leave off with the insults. I haven't insulted you; my question about your age was a legitimate question to try and determine your point of reference.

 

Yet you did not read my points earlier? By commenting about my age and then beginning a new set of questions without having addressed the old ones leads to the clear implication that you are actually discounting anything I type and therefore, are choosing to argue with me without entertaining the possibility that your stance could fall.

 

Only self righteous kiddos and egotistical people are capable of doing that. Sorry if the classification offends you, some people actually enjoying being stubborn and admitting that they won't listen to reason over their own gut feeling.

 

I'm afraid I missed that part - did you mention it in some point you were posting to Georgemattson? (I'm afraid I only read the ones you directed at me.) Though, I read half of the posts last night at the middle of the night, might have been too tired to notice everything.

 

Yes, I think I must've typed it out at least five times xD

 

But fair enough, glad we can put that matter to rest then.

 

But it seems that we don't only differ in our morality, but also in how we view pvp. You don't seem to understand that not everyone views pvp as you do, or maybe you just don't want to allow that?

 

I do understand it, and that's the problem: people need to change it. It's like if they viewed soccer as basketball in mind, thinking what they do on the grass field is going to work on a basketball court. Which is entirely wrong; the game is different, everything about it is nearly different.

 

Thus, my argument in regards to how people view PvP as the problem of at least my server, where they don't understand it as competition and combat. People need to understand that handouts hurt you, that you have to make yourself into a player to be decent. And you can say that as you like, but to the people who aren't willing to listen to criticism, you are going to be seen as an offender. So I have learned to embrace it, as I'm still providing a service to the people who are looking to understand how competition works.

 

Anyway, I think I should this argueing to Georgemattson - he seems to have the patience of an angel, while I don't.

 

Very well then, have a nice day!

[AlrikFassbauer]

So then, you can develop a pride and happiness from being a competent player.

 

I'd never do that. I'm too humble for that.

 

And yes, in some cultures, humblesness is even considfered to be better that bragging and showing out the riches (like Gangstas do).

 

What I don't understand is intentionally making people feel bad and then defending how that's the right thing to do.

 

Never heard of psychological warfare ?

 

Driving people with a less thick skin out of the game -> less competors.

 

It's that easy, actually.

 

In order for a game to succeed it needs a steady inflow of new players to make up for those who leave, and this requires an environment that entices new players to keep playing and get better, not make them feel unwanted and leave forever.

 

Meanwhgile I agree to you, making people feel bad and unwanted so that they stay away results in an smaller number of competors in the Leaderboards for those who wabt to be on the top of that list.

 

Less competors = less players to battle -> easier way to the top.

 

In the end, it's all about selfishness. Those who want to get to the top will drive people out of the game because of that.

Rising to powah is everything.

Edited November 13, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[PhilD]

so, there might actually be severe cultural problems in understanding things. Severe ones.

 

There's no such thing as "European culture" generally speaking. Germany is as different from the UK as it is from the US.

 

"Schmuck" means "jewellery" in German language, by the way.

(And "Schwartz" without the "t" means "black" in German language.)

 

Yes, I'm aware of that. They both means something quite different in Yiddish and in English slang.

[Seireeni]

I do understand it, and that's the problem: people need to change it. It's like if they viewed soccer as basketball in mind, thinking what they do on the grass field is going to work on a basketball court. Which is entirely wrong; the game is different, everything about it is nearly different.

 

Thus, my argument in regards to how people view PvP as the problem of at least my server, where they don't understand it as competition and combat. People need to understand that handouts hurt you, that you have to make yourself into a player to be decent. And you can say that as you like, but to the people who aren't willing to listen to criticism, you are going to be seen as an offender. So I have learned to embrace it, as I'm still providing a service to the people who are looking to understand how competition works.

 

FINALLY!

After this many pages, I think I finally understand the logic behind your behaviour.

 

You're one more of those people who think "casuals" and people who don't take pvp as seriously as you (and by this I mean aren't as competitive as you) shouldn't queue, and that's why you rage at other people? Because the competetitive players want to become better, no matter what, so they may listen to you, while people who just enjoy pvp and don't care that much if they get better or not or if they do it fast or not, shouldn't be queueing at all, since they want to play pvp differently?

 

I agree, it's sort of a problem that these 2 groups are forced to queue in the same queue. I'm afraid there won't be a solution anytime soon, though. Casuals aren't going to get their own queue, and the ranked pvp doesn't seem to work that well either. Not to mention that full 8 man warzones are not happening in ranked at all. So all those people who want to play with other pros (and "pros") are forced to do regs just to do any non-arenas at all.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Seireeni

[AlrikFassbauer]

FINALLY!

After this many pages, I think I finally understand the logic behind your behaviour.

 

You're one more of those people who think "casuals" and people who don't take pvp as seriously as you (and by this I mean aren't as competitive as you) shouldn't queue, and that's why you rage at other people? Because the competetitive players want to become better, no matter what, so they may listen to you, while people who just enjoy pvp and don't care that much if they get better or not or if they do it fast or not, shouldn't be queueing at all, since they want to play pvp differently?

 

That kind of logic isn't that uncommon. Almost everyone on these boards shows it at one point.

 

"True PvP players" act like members of an Religion : Stick together ! Hurt all outsiders ! Dispell all disbelievers !

[AlrikFassbauer]

There's no such thing as "European culture" generally speaking. Germany is as different from the UK as it is from the US.

 

Yes, that's why I called it a "joke".

 

But what in fact is there are cultural differences.

 

Which are actually very difficult to see.

Just look at reports of WWII - Allies meeting members of different cultures.

 

Yes, I'm aware of that. They both means something quite different in Yiddish and in English slang.

 

You'd be surprised how many Yiddish words went into the German language. I was astonished as I read a book containing several Yiddish words and how they went into the German language.

(Language in general is a kind of hobby of mine.)

Edited November 13, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer