Operatives and Snipers need to be nerfed, here's why.

[MasonMc]

Yeah I know, sorry Slingers and Scoundrels. But guys come on... This class is so OP. Okay, I play as a Sentinel right now. And the amount of stuns this class has insane. So myself and another guy were playing Hypergate, this Operative stuns me once, okay, cool I can deal with that. So I pop resolute. Then he throws down a flashbang or whatever the F it is. Stuns both the Sage and I that were guarding the pylon, and is able to cap it while we're still stunned... That is crazy.

 

Then the same match, I was running away from the pylon because it was about to reset, this jerk stuns me once, I pop resolute, and he stuns me again right after... There was nothing I could do and the pylon killed me.. Like what BS is that? What? He just gets a free cheap kill? How unfair.

 

And Snipers... Oh don't even get me started with them. Okay so basic, you run up to them (Save the force leap for later because they'll knock you back) They knock you back, as expected. Can't move for like 6 seconds, by that point they've shot me once and 1/3 of my health is gone, okay cool. Then I force leap them. They stun me for like another 6 seconds. So I pop resolute. And he slows my movement speed down again and it takes me another 5 seconds to reach him by walking. And by that point I'm already dead... And that is how EVERY battle goes with them. And they can be immune to all stuns and interrupts for 20 seconds.. Like come on..

 

Like come on guys.. this is so unfair, please tell me at least someone agrees with me :C This is pissing me off.

Oh and please don't just say I'm bad at PvP, I'm fairly good. Got a 55 Vanguard with 54 Valor..

Edited November 1, 2013 by MasonMc

[Corsiero]

Wow... 54 Valor...

 

If you learnt the limitations of the Operative/Scoundrel classes, you'll know why they need crowd control, because outside of their Concealment/Scrapper opening rotation, they don't do much damage. They have alot of utility and can be broken if you know how to counter them. The problem isn't the class, it's the fact that Hypergate Pylons can be capped within the time which they Flashbang you. You got outplayed 1v2, so your fault.

 

Snipers need their cover system to counter Marauders/Sentinels. They need their Leg Shot to immobilise you because as soon as you touch them they explode. They were designed to counter and destroy your class, because your class is good at destroying every other class. Learn their abilities and limitations and work around it.

 

If you complained about how good Operatives/Scoundrels are at healing and getting away compared to other healer classes, and how their rolls should have a slight energy increase, I might have cared, however you need to learn to play.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Corsiero

[ghoul_drool]

Sounds like Corsiero got it right. If Snipers and Operatives didn't have those abilities, marauders would tear through them without even blinking.

[Sztoid]

I know it's not what you want to hear but, Jesus Christ, learn to play. Not one good player I know uses their stun breaker on the first stun. Obviously you use it at least on the second because they can't stun you again. If you're guarding a pylon, you should at least be 30m away from the far end of the pylon so that when you're CC is over, you can still hit them with a ranged ability. If you're fighting a Sniper /Gunslinger, have you ever thought of using you Force Camouflage? It'll prevent them from targeting you with "Well Aimed Shot". If you're that bad, maybe you shouldn't be in a warzone.

[ghoul_drool]

Sounds like Corsiero got it right. If Snipers and Operatives didn't have those abilities, marauders would tear through them without even blinking.

[aeterno]

I wouldn't have thought so myself but can't argue with the results i.e. actual responses.

 

Solid 5/10 OP.

[Nempo]

This sounds like one long whine because he can't kill a specific class.

 

The fact he is a sentinel adds even more validity as most sentinels I see in wzs are smash monkeys, which that spec is a free kill to any competant sniper/slinger.

 

Also...if you get to leap at a sniper/slinger even once during a confrontation that they begin the fight? You played a BAD sniper/slinger. As a good one would have never been taken out of cover by simply anticipating your force push/stasis and bunkering in in yoru inevitable opening period of using it. Yes...sentinels ARE that predictable.

 

Snipers/slingers need those abilities to stay alive, operatives/scoundrels need those skills even moreso. Take the stun/flashbang away and an operative/scoundrel is nothing, catch them without either of those skills up and they die...fast.

[Tsillah]

I know it's not what you want to hear but, Jesus Christ, learn to play. Not one good player I know uses their stun breaker on the first stun. Obviously you use it at least on the second because they can't stun you again. If you're guarding a pylon, you should at least be 30m away from the far end of the pylon so that when you're CC is over, you can still hit them with a ranged ability. If you're fighting a Sniper /Gunslinger, have you ever thought of using you Force Camouflage? It'll prevent them from targeting you with "Well Aimed Shot". If you're that bad, maybe you shouldn't be in a warzone.

 

Although I generally agree, especially with the sniper, I do have a consideration towards the operatives. Operatives do have a lot of stun and you only have one stun breaker with a hefty cd on it for most classes. Operatives are indeed very squishy but on the other hand they can stun you from stealth, so if you break that cc with your cc breaker, he can do it again and still has a couple more stuns. And they can do enough damage close range while keeping you stunned till you die pretty much, because I don't really get more time than to cast 1 skill before I am stunned again and their next burst hits.

 

Now I will say right away I am not a big pvp player and when I pvp I only pvp below level 55 just for fun and when I get stun-killed by operatives I just accept that that's what happened, but if you people say that you can counter someone stunning you from stealth backstabbing you to 50% healt in 1.5 seconds, stun you again and same cycle again and you have only one cc breaker....really I'd like to L2P and I would like to hear how a marauder, sorc, sniper, juggernaut, merc etc can actually counter this stun/stealth attack. Seriously, I'd like to know.

 

Let's say there's two of you at that pylon defending and 2 ops in stealth cc you. What do you do? If you don't use your cc breaker they cap the pylon. If you do, they cc you again with that blind thingy or whaever and cap it anyway or kill you one by one 2 vs 1 in a matter of seconds.... By the team your team responds it's already too late.

 

Let's say you got killed and respawn, you jump out of the start area alone and boom from stealth you get cc'd by an operative...do you break cc or not? If you do, he stuns you again, if you don't he attacks directly. Either way you get attacked with some short burst damage and cc'd again. Your cc breaker isn't working and if you saved it the first time you can use it now....but he has another stun and then your dead either way.

 

I completely agree that operatives are squishy when they are out of stun and stealth...but so often they just disappear from combat only to come back again when they see the next opportunity, just like assassin....

 

Maybe on ranked warzones with premade teams you can call it l2p but my feeling is that on lower level warzones, the op just has a big advantage over most classes simply because of the combination of stealth and virtual stunlock.

 

But if you as devout pvp'ers have some clear solutions for that, I'd love to hear them and l2p.

[MasonMc]

Thanks Tsillah, you actually seem to get it. Everyone else just think I don't know how to play which that isn't how it is at all. And I'm not saying my Valor is any measure of skill at all. I'm just saying I have experience with the game. I get around 400k DPS in most public warzones, which isn't too bad.. Maybe they are just defending their class, I don't know. They seem a little right about the Sniper though, I still think it's a little OP. But they have some good points. But the Operative is way too OP and cheap.

[MasonMc]

I know it's not what you want to hear but, Jesus Christ, learn to play. Not one good player I know uses their stun breaker on the first stun. Obviously you use it at least on the second because they can't stun you again. If you're guarding a pylon, you should at least be 30m away from the far end of the pylon so that when you're CC is over, you can still hit them with a ranged ability. If you're fighting a Sniper /Gunslinger, have you ever thought of using you Force Camouflage? It'll prevent them from targeting you with "Well Aimed Shot". If you're that bad, maybe you shouldn't be in a warzone.

 

And yeah, I know it's not a good idea to use the stun breaker on the first stun. But he was capping the pylon, tell me what else was I supposed to do? You guys just jump to the conclusion that I don't know how to play, but that isn't it. I don't have Force Camo yet, still in the lower warzones.

[MasonMc]

This sounds like one long whine because he can't kill a specific class.

 

The fact he is a sentinel adds even more validity as most sentinels I see in wzs are smash monkeys, which that spec is a free kill to any competant sniper/slinger.

 

Also...if you get to leap at a sniper/slinger even once during a confrontation that they begin the fight? You played a BAD sniper/slinger. As a good one would have never been taken out of cover by simply anticipating your force push/stasis and bunkering in in yoru inevitable opening period of using it. Yes...sentinels ARE that predictable.

 

Snipers/slingers need those abilities to stay alive, operatives/scoundrels need those skills even moreso. Take the stun/flashbang away and an operative/scoundrel is nothing, catch them without either of those skills up and they die...fast.

 

And no, I'm not a "smash monkey" I'm combat, don't just assume things like everyone else.

[PoliteAssasin]

Yeah I know, sorry Slingers and Scoundrels. But guys come on... This class is so OP. Okay, I play as a Sentinel right now. And the amount of stuns this class has insane. So myself and another guy were playing Hypergate, this Operative stuns me once, okay, cool I can deal with that. So I pop resolute. Then he throws down a flashbang or whatever the F it is. Stuns both the Sage and I that were guarding the pylon, and is able to cap it while we're still stunned... That is crazy.

 

Then the same match, I was running away from the pylon because it was about to reset, this jerk stuns me once, I pop resolute, and he stuns me again right after... There was nothing I could do and the pylon killed me.. Like what BS is that? What? He just gets a free cheap kill? How unfair.

 

And Snipers... Oh don't even get me started with them. Okay so basic, you run up to them (Save the force leap for later because they'll knock you back) They knock you back, as expected. Can't move for like 6 seconds, by that point they've shot me once and 1/3 of my health is gone, okay cool. Then I force leap them. They stun me for like another 6 seconds. So I pop resolute. And he slows my movement speed down again and it takes me another 5 seconds to reach him by walking. And by that point I'm already dead... And that is how EVERY battle goes with them. And they can be immune to all stuns and interrupts for 20 seconds.. Like come on..

 

Like come on guys.. this is so unfair, please tell me at least someone agrees with me :C This is pissing me off.

Oh and please don't just say I'm bad at PvP, I'm fairly good. Got a 55 Vanguard with 54 Valor..

 

Lol snipers are not OP, if anything they're the most predictable class. Judging by what you're saying you apparently don't know how to use the many tools in your arsenal to deal with them. (we have an answer for everything that class brings basically, as sentinels/marauders). The fact that you let him get shots off of you after his initial knockback is bad. Thats what camo is for, once you see them channel. What spec are you playing? The easiest ones to beat snipers on are watchman and combat. Focus is a joke. Read up on your class and spec abilities, I gave you an example on how to get around your initial problem but the rest is up to you. You claim to be a good player, you shouldn't be having problems with snipers unless you're running focus/smash. Sorry to say but players like you are the reason for the false assumption that snipers can beat sentinels/marauders, when in fact its only dual wielders who don't know how to play their class right. I strongly encourage you to read up on it thoroughly. Also practice dueling a sniper. Even roll one. The best way to gain knowledge on countering a class is knowing what they have to use against you, and when its most appropriate for them to do so. Nothing will help you better than to roll one yourself, then take that knowledge back to your sentinel when you play him again. Good luck!

Edited November 1, 2013 by PoliteAssasin

[Stansman]

Both classes are overpowered and dominate warzones way too much. Yes they can be countered but it takes a lot more effort than it should. Most warzones I've played are not won by the skills of the players but by who has the most of these classes in their team. Telling people to learn to play wont make them any less overpowered.

[Sztoid]

Although I generally agree, especially with the sniper, I do have a consideration towards the operatives. Operatives do have a lot of stun and you only have one stun breaker with a hefty cd on it for most classes. Operatives are indeed very squishy but on the other hand they can stun you from stealth, so if you break that cc with your cc breaker, he can do it again and still has a couple more stuns. And they can do enough damage close range while keeping you stunned till you die pretty much, because I don't really get more time than to cast 1 skill before I am stunned again and their next burst hits.

 

Now I will say right away I am not a big pvp player and when I pvp I only pvp below level 55 just for fun and when I get stun-killed by operatives I just accept that that's what happened, but if you people say that you can counter someone stunning you from stealth backstabbing you to 50% healt in 1.5 seconds, stun you again and same cycle again and you have only one cc breaker....really I'd like to L2P and I would like to hear how a marauder, sorc, sniper, juggernaut, merc etc can actually counter this stun/stealth attack. Seriously, I'd like to know.

 

Let's say there's two of you at that pylon defending and 2 ops in stealth cc you. What do you do? If you don't use your cc breaker they cap the pylon. If you do, they cc you again with that blind thingy or whaever and cap it anyway or kill you one by one 2 vs 1 in a matter of seconds.... By the team your team responds it's already too late.

 

Let's say you got killed and respawn, you jump out of the start area alone and boom from stealth you get cc'd by an operative...do you break cc or not? If you do, he stuns you again, if you don't he attacks directly. Either way you get attacked with some short burst damage and cc'd again. Your cc breaker isn't working and if you saved it the first time you can use it now....but he has another stun and then your dead either way.

 

I completely agree that operatives are squishy when they are out of stun and stealth...but so often they just disappear from combat only to come back again when they see the next opportunity, just like assassin....

 

Maybe on ranked warzones with premade teams you can call it l2p but my feeling is that on lower level warzones, the op just has a big advantage over most classes simply because of the combination of stealth and virtual stunlock.

 

But if you as devout pvp'ers have some clear solutions for that, I'd love to hear them and l2p.

 

I don't know how an operative can take you to 50% (15k+) health in 1.5 second (duration of Hidden Strike w/ knockdown perk) with Acid Blade and lets say Backstab which should have more DPS. I prefer to use shiv and then hit Acid Blade again before using Backstab after Debilitate. But anyways, I've played Concealment spec and Debilitate should be an addition 4 seconds. Stealth classes' rely heavily on stealth to open attacks. If you fight them out of stealth and they don't use it to their advantage, you'll find out how squishy they are.

 

All classes have defensive cooldown that you can use. If you choose not to use them that's on you. I wait until my resolve bar is full and I'm getting gang banged to use my CC breaker. If I'm not in any "real" danger I save it. If you've played a stealth class before, you know how to think like one. There have been plenty of times that I have guessed where they would be, and they seem pretty surprised, when my stealth Scan or AoE hits them without prior knowledge. Even if they Use Blackout, you have a chance to heal if they aren't ready to come back with their second rotation. If you can DoT them or make them waste their Blackout, most likely they'll Exfiltrate out.

[MasonMc]

Lol snipers are not OP, if anything they're the most predictable class. Judging by what you're saying you apparently don't know how to use the many tools in your arsenal to deal with them. (we have an answer for everything that class brings basically, as sentinels/marauders). The fact that you let him get shots off of you after his initial knockback is bad. Thats what camo is for, once you see them channel. What spec are you playing? The easiest ones to beat snipers on are watchman and combat. Focus is a joke. Read up on your class and spec abilities, I gave you an example on how to get around your initial problem but the rest is up to you. You claim to be a good player, you shouldn't be having problems with snipers unless you're running focus/smash. Sorry to say but players like you are the reason for the false assumption that snipers can beat sentinels/marauders, when in fact its only dual wielders who don't know how to play their class right. I strongly encourage you to read up on it thoroughly. Also practice dueling a sniper. Even roll one. The best way to gain knowledge on countering a class is knowing what they have to use against you, and when its most appropriate for them to do so. Nothing will help you better than to roll one yourself, then take that knowledge back to your sentinel when you play him again. Good luck!

 

Well your advice was better than most lol, but like I said. No force camo yet. And I'm combat, still in the low levels of PvP. Maybe that is the thing I'm just missing then, that'll make everything just magically click. Either way, I still think Operatives are OP though. Or just plain annoying.

[MasonMc]

Both classes are overpowered and dominate warzones way too much. Yes they can be countered but it takes a lot more effort than it should. Most warzones I've played are not won by the skills of the players but by who has the most of these classes in their team. Telling people to learn to play wont make them any less overpowered.

 

That is exactly what I think too. With most classes, like fighting another Mara/Sentinel. It takes little effort to bring them down, just interrupt the Ravage/Master strike and you're fine. The rest is just kill them, same with Jugs, Sorcs and most other classes I can think of. Just a little interrupt and you're fine. But with Snipers... You have to approach them a certain way, wait for them to do things then respond with what you have. It's just irritating. Then you're just waiting to be unstunned while they just hammer you. Like with most other classes, you just kill them. No real special way to do so besides a interrupt or two. But with these? It's all "special"

 

(edit) Don't get me wrong, I do like certain ways of approaching each class. Adds variety, but even if you do everything right they'll still just stun you.

Edited November 1, 2013 by MasonMc

[PoliteAssasin]

Well your advice was better than most lol, but like I said. No force camo yet. And I'm combat, still in the low levels of PvP. Maybe that is the thing I'm just missing then, that'll make everything just magically click. Either way, I still think Operatives are OP though. Or just plain annoying.

 

Oh well that explains it then. Sentinels mature late, camo is around 30-36 IIRC, so you still have a ways to go. Don't worry once you've reached 55 you'll be getting payback. Combat and Watchman are the best for dealing with snipers. I haven't really run into many operative dps when specced into Combat to judge how well it stacks, but Watchman is very good against them as well. As long as you have your cooldowns that is, if they catch you without at least guarded and a valorous call, you're dead. Disregard some of my comments up there too lol, I thought you were a 55.

[comebui]

Well the dev heard you.... well not exactly... But they are nerfing Operative in 2.5. Just wait for it!

[discbox]

Other classes have to be nerfed, because they can defend against me... I want to kill them blindfolded - so nerf them!

[Tsillah]

I don't know how an operative can take you to 50% (15k+) health in 1.5 second (duration of Hidden Strike w/ knockdown perk) with Acid Blade and lets say Backstab which should have more DPS. I prefer to use shiv and then hit Acid Blade again before using Backstab after Debilitate. But anyways, I've played Concealment spec and Debilitate should be an addition 4 seconds. Stealth classes' rely heavily on stealth to open attacks. If you fight them out of stealth and they don't use it to their advantage, you'll find out how squishy they are.

 

All classes have defensive cooldown that you can use. If you choose not to use them that's on you. I wait until my resolve bar is full and I'm getting gang banged to use my CC breaker. If I'm not in any "real" danger I save it. If you've played a stealth class before, you know how to think like one. There have been plenty of times that I have guessed where they would be, and they seem pretty surprised, when my stealth Scan or AoE hits them without prior knowledge. Even if they Use Blackout, you have a chance to heal if they aren't ready to come back with their second rotation. If you can DoT them or make them waste their Blackout, most likely they'll Exfiltrate out.

 

You obviously speak about level 55 warzones, perhaps even ranked. But here's a hint, I never play level 55 PvP and most players get their first experience with PvP while leveling. So if the problem is there, people lose interest in PvP before they ever get near level 55. But if I think about it it's perhaps not so much the class as the stuns themselves. You speak of resolve bars but if you are stunned and the op has one more friend shooting you and he stuns you again, then it does go quick. Let's be honest, it's not 1 vs 1 in a warzone and chain stuns are a problem in any pvp setting because you can't stop it. There is just nothing more frustrating than something that can't be stopped because you are constantly stunned. I realise while thinking about it's probably an operative + 1 other that make the damage go so quickly but the end result is the same and there really is nothing you can do about it.

 

Now personally it's not gonna make me stop pvp'ing, it doesn't happen that often to me as it is and I stay away from level 55 pvp as it is (sorry too many ******es and I am categorically against pvp stats like expertise), but I do see other players get turned off by things like this. It seems to me that one of the problems in PvP is that there's not that much interest...long queues and all that. Personally I am more interested in the starfighter stuff that's coming. But operatives with stealth, fast heals, multiple stuns and even an aoe stun, not to mention the duration of such stuns (makes huttball really interesting let's say), it does seem like a lot of stuff for one class. There are more squishy classes and none of them have all that.

[Tsillah]

Other classes have to be nerfed, because they can defend against me... I want to kill them blindfolded - so nerf them!

 

Thanks for the sarcasm, and even though I often agree with this, it's not a fair comment here and in fact it's the opposite here. But then I guess it's too much to ask for you to read before responding.

[Korevas]

but like I said. No force camo yet.

 

You are basing your whine around <30 performance, if you seriously suggest classes endgame performance should be adjusted purely because you get pawned in lowbie pvp please just shut up, that's stupid.

 

Sniper's cover ability is inherently quite strong from level 10 on, while marauders get a whole toolbox to deal with them later, like the mentioned camouflage, undying rage and obfuscate. While you get all those awesome tools, snipers get... nothing. The only perceivable problem here would be that marauders get to shine comparatively late, but seeing how they decided to give all classes their abilities at a roughly same pace there is no way around that really.

[Ayelinna]

Stun Wars: The Resolve Republic

[Loc_n_lol]

multiple stuns

Scoundrels and operatives have one stun that doesn't break when you take damage, and it's not like it can be used mutliple times in a fight. Using flashbang or tranquilizer dart before attacking you is just giving you free resolve. Something doesn't make sense here... Just how many operatives are you trying to take on by yourself ?...

[MrJohnson]

You have no idea how much qq'ing has been done regarding these classes since closed beta. As a result the class has been flip flopped so many times I have lost track. They should be able to give you a run for your money, or should your class just have the "I Win" button to make you happy?

 

Overcome, adapt, and listen to the advice given in the thread because here is a fun fact: there will always be a flavor of the month style spec/class and people complaining that (insert class name here) is OP and needs a nerf. They will be nerfed and then the new kid on the block will be OP while the nerfed people complain about the changes.

 

Awesome circle perpetuated by threads that start just like this one...