Commando Changes Brainstorming

[goeblu]

Gunnery needs a few tweaks in terms of energy management, CoF proc and added PVP escapeablilty.

 

Curtain of Fire: Demo round has 65% chance and Grav round has 45% chance to reset CD of Full auto, making it free and deal an additional 20% damage. This effect can't occur more than once every 6 seconds.

 

Concussive Force: Stockstrike has 100% and Concussion Charge has a 75% chance to immobilize the target for 4 seconds....

 

I don't think this change would make Commando OP, but it would be able to put out more consistant DPS in a PVE environment. I don't think Commando is too bad in PVP right now but one change could make a pretty big difference.

[Malckiah]

Gunnery needs a few tweaks in terms of energy management, CoF proc and added PVP escapeablilty.

 

Curtain of Fire: Demo round has 65% chance and Grav round has 45% chance to reset CD of Full auto, making it free and deal an additional 20% damage. This effect can't occur more than once every 6 seconds.

 

Concussive Force: Stockstrike has 100% and Concussion Charge has a 75% chance to immobilize the target for 4 seconds....

 

I don't think this change would make Commando OP, but it would be able to put out more consistant DPS in a PVE environment. I don't think Commando is too bad in PVP right now but one change could make a pretty big difference.

 

Actually If you gave Concussion Charge the ability to stun targets for 4 seconds that would be perfect.... but immobilize would be good as well.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Malckiah

[kennethdale]

Re-posting from the Merc forums, I tried to fix all of the merc terms for mando ones sorry if I missed some.

 

General

1) Reactive Shield has been redesigned. "Surrounds yourself in a protective shield that absorbs all ranged, tech, and force attacks for 8 seconds. Cooldown 120s."

 

2) Sticky Grenade has had its ammo cost reduced to 10.

 

3) Adrenaline Has been redesigned. "Overloads your suits Kolto Injection System causing it to heal you for 2% of your maximum health every second for 8 seconds. Cooldown 240s."

 

4) Plasma Grenade has had its ammo cost reduced to 10.

 

5) Advanced Medical Probe has had its ammo cost increased to 20 and its cooldown removed.

 

6) Hold the Line has had its speed increase boosted from 30% to 80%.

 

7) Explosive Round has had its ammo cost reduced to 15.

 

8) Charged Bolts has had its ammo cost reduced to 15.

 

9) Tech Override has been removed and replaced with "Emergency Field Stabilization - Activates your emergency field stabilization protocols allowing you to continue casting while moving for 15s. Cooldown 120s."

 

10) High Impact Bolt has had its ammo cost reduced to 8.

 

11) Shockstrike has been redesigned. "Strikes the target with the butt of the rifle, dealing 2247 - 2463 kinetic damage and rooting the target in place for 3s. Range 4m. Cooldown 9s. Ammo cost 8."

 

12) Reserve Powercell has been redesigned. "Activates your reserve powercell and causes your abilities to use no ammo. This effect lasts 10 seconds. Cooldown 90s."

 

13) Full Auto has had its ammo cost reduced to 12.

 

14) Added the ability "Out of Harm's Way - Fires your Assault Cannon at the ground causing you to fly backwards rapidly 35m and rooting all enemies in a 5m range for 3s. Cooldown 120s. Ammo cost 20."

 

Combat Medic

1) The Talent "Field Triage" is changed to "Reduces the ammo cost of Medical Probe by 5. In addition, Advanced Medical Probe has a 33/66/100% chance to lower the cost of your next Medical Probe by 5."

 

2) "Bacta Infusion" now heals for 1200-1750 instead of 758-1299.

 

4) The Talent "Field Medicine" has had its text changed to "Increases the healing done by Medical Probe by 3/6%. In addition, Medical Probe, Advanced Medical Probe, and Bacta Infusion each build 3/6 stacks of Combat Support Cell."

 

5) The Talent "Supercharged Cell" has had its text changed to "Converts 30 charges of Combat Support Cell to supercharge your blasters, venting 8 heat, increasing all damage and healing dealt by 5% for 10 seconds, and granting immunity to push back and interrupts. While active, the following abilities gain Supercharge affects:

Charged Bolts: Ammo cost reduced by 100%.

Full Auto: Ammo cost reduced by 100%.

Advanced Medical Probe: Ammo Cost reduced by 50%.

Bacta Infusion: Amount healed increased by 20%.

Kolto Bomb: Places a shield on all targets reducing damage taken by 5% for 10 seconds."

 

6) The Talent "Frontline Medic" has been redesigned. "Causes your Out of Harm's Way to leave a Kolto Pool on the ground for 15s healing for 100-200 and increasing healing received by 5%."

 

Gunnery

1) Grav Round has had its ammo cost has been reduced to 15.

 

2) Demolition Round has had its ammo cost has been reduced to 10.

 

3) The Talent "Concussive Force" has had its text changed to "Shockstrike has a 50/100% chance to knock the target back 10m. In addition Concussion Charge's knockback effect is stronger and knocks enemies back an additional 2/4m."

 

4) The Talent "Cell Charger" has had its text change to "While Armor Piercing Cell is active you recover an additional 1/2 ammo every 1.5s.

 

5) Overclock has been replaced with "Overclocked Stabilization". "Reduces the cooldown of Emergency Field Stabilization by 15/30s and increases its duration by 5/10s."

 

Assault

1) Incendiary Round has had its ammo cost reduced to 10.

 

2) Assault has had its Ammo cost reduced to 10.

 

3) Combustible Gas Cell has had its rate limit removed.

 

4) Electro Shield has had its external damage increased to 1800 up from 180.

[Malckiah]

Re-posting from the Merc forums, I tried to fix all of the merc terms for mando ones sorry if I missed some.

 

General

1) Reactive Shield has been redesigned. "Surrounds yourself in a protective shield that absorbs all ranged, tech, and force attacks for 8 seconds. Cooldown 120s."

 

2) Sticky Grenade has had its ammo cost reduced to 10.

 

3) Adrenaline Has been redesigned. "Overloads your suits Kolto Injection System causing it to heal you for 2% of your maximum health every second for 8 seconds. Cooldown 240s."

 

4) Plasma Grenade has had its ammo cost reduced to 10.

 

5) Advanced Medical Probe has had its ammo cost increased to 20 and its cooldown removed.

 

6) Hold the Line has had its speed increase boosted from 30% to 80%.

 

7) Explosive Round has had its ammo cost reduced to 15.

 

8) Charged Bolts has had its ammo cost reduced to 15.

 

9) Tech Override has been removed and replaced with "Emergency Field Stabilization - Activates your emergency field stabilization protocols allowing you to continue casting while moving for 15s. Cooldown 120s."

 

10) High Impact Bolt has had its ammo cost reduced to 8.

 

11) Shockstrike has been redesigned. "Strikes the target with the butt of the rifle, dealing 2247 - 2463 kinetic damage and rooting the target in place for 3s. Range 4m. Cooldown 9s. Ammo cost 8."

 

12) Reserve Powercell has been redesigned. "Activates your reserve powercell and causes your abilities to use no ammo. This effect lasts 10 seconds. Cooldown 90s."

 

13) Full Auto has had its ammo cost reduced to 12.

 

14) Added the ability "Out of Harm's Way - Fires your Assault Cannon at the ground causing you to fly backwards rapidly 35m and rooting all enemies in a 5m range for 3s. Cooldown 120s. Ammo cost 20."

 

Combat Medic

1) The Talent "Field Triage" is changed to "Reduces the ammo cost of Medical Probe by 5. In addition, Advanced Medical Probe has a 33/66/100% chance to lower the cost of your next Medical Probe by 5."

 

2) "Bacta Infusion" now heals for 1200-1750 instead of 758-1299.

 

4) The Talent "Field Medicine" has had its text changed to "Increases the healing done by Medical Probe by 3/6%. In addition, Medical Probe, Advanced Medical Probe, and Bacta Infusion each build 3/6 stacks of Combat Support Cell."

 

5) The Talent "Supercharged Cell" has had its text changed to "Converts 30 charges of Combat Support Cell to supercharge your blasters, venting 8 heat, increasing all damage and healing dealt by 5% for 10 seconds, and granting immunity to push back and interrupts. While active, the following abilities gain Supercharge affects:

Charged Bolts: Ammo cost reduced by 100%.

Full Auto: Ammo cost reduced by 100%.

Advanced Medical Probe: Ammo Cost reduced by 50%.

Bacta Infusion: Amount healed increased by 20%.

Kolto Bomb: Places a shield on all targets reducing damage taken by 5% for 10 seconds."

 

6) The Talent "Frontline Medic" has been redesigned. "Causes your Out of Harm's Way to leave a Kolto Pool on the ground for 15s healing for 100-200 and increasing healing received by 5%."

 

Gunnery

1) Grav Round has had its ammo cost has been reduced to 15.

 

2) Demolition Round has had its ammo cost has been reduced to 10.

 

3) The Talent "Concussive Force" has had its text changed to "Shockstrike has a 50/100% chance to knock the target back 10m. In addition Concussion Charge's knockback effect is stronger and knocks enemies back an additional 2/4m."

 

4) The Talent "Cell Charger" has had its text change to "While Armor Piercing Cell is active you recover an additional 1/2 ammo every 1.5s.

 

5) Overclock has been replaced with "Overclocked Stabilization". "Reduces the cooldown of Emergency Field Stabilization by 15/30s and increases its duration by 5/10s."

 

Assault

1) Incendiary Round has had its ammo cost reduced to 10.

 

2) Assault has had its Ammo cost reduced to 10.

 

3) Combustible Gas Cell has had its rate limit removed.

 

4) Electro Shield has had its external damage increased to 1800 up from 180.

 

1) Reactive Shield has been redesigned. "Surrounds yourself in a protective shield that absorbs all ranged, tech, and force attacks for 8 seconds. Cooldown 120s." <THIS

[akabane_k]

can we try to keep suggestions at least remotely balanced.

[Malckiah]

can we try to keep suggestions at least remotely balanced.

 

Reactive Shield has been redesigned. "Surrounds yourself in a protective shield that absorbs all ranged, tech, and force attacks for 6-8 seconds. Cooldown 120s."

 

Give me this and I am set

[SpaniardInfinity]

Reactive Shield has been redesigned. "Surrounds yourself in a protective shield that absorbs all ranged, tech, and force attacks for 6-8 seconds. Cooldown 120s."

 

Give me this and I am set

 

That poster was probably referring to the fact that most of all of the other suggestions you quoted, other than that one, would not have been "remotely balanced".

 

Also, while that specified change would essentially be 6 seconds of easy-mode immunity, that change alone would do nothing for the people who already have trouble with the other 110 seconds when Reactive Shield is not available. Reactive Shield already is god-mode for people who know how to use it properly (the healers that is -- DPS is a different story).

Edited November 1, 2013 by SpaniardInfinity

[kennethdale]

That poster was probably referring to the fact that most of all of the other suggestions you quoted, other than that one, would not have been "remotely balanced".

 

Also, while that specified change would essentially be 6 seconds of easy-mode immunity, that change alone would do nothing for the people who already have trouble with the other 110 seconds when Reactive Shield is not available. Reactive Shield already is god-mode for people who know how to use it properly (the healers that is -- DPS is a different story).

 

That's the problem though, not only are our CDs long but they're not all that great when they're up. And reactive shield isn't god mode. You can still be stunned through it and then that wonderful interrupt/pushback immunity is nullified. As an added bonus this gives PT/VGs a needed CD on par with Reflect/Shroud.

 

I was the one who posted that huge long post and the whole point is to re-balance our entire AC. We need lower heat/Ammo costs for a start to help control our resource issues (which can become an issue in all specs) and for a second we need more mobility.

[Luckeyduckey]

That's the problem though, not only are our CDs long but they're not all that great when they're up. And reactive shield isn't god mode. You can still be stunned through it and then that wonderful interrupt/pushback immunity is nullified. As an added bonus this gives PT/VGs a needed CD on par with Reflect/Shroud.

 

I was the one who posted that huge long post and the whole point is to re-balance our entire AC. We need lower heat/Ammo costs for a start to help control our resource issues (which can become an issue in all specs) and for a second we need more mobility.

 

Awesome list of change ideas.

 

Would suggest:

Out of Harms way should increase defence by 100% while flying backwards, and land in a backwards roll (for a nicer visual effect)

Edited November 1, 2013 by Luckeyduckey

[SpaniardInfinity]

That's the problem though, not only are our CDs long but they're not all that great when they're up. And reactive shield isn't god mode. You can still be stunned through it and then that wonderful interrupt/pushback immunity is nullified. As an added bonus this gives PT/VGs a needed CD on par with Reflect/Shroud.

 

I was the one who posted that huge long post and the whole point is to re-balance our entire AC. We need lower heat/Ammo costs for a start to help control our resource issues (which can become an issue in all specs) and for a second we need more mobility.

 

Reactive Shield is god mode if you are a healer and use it wisely (ie. at full resolve, in combination with an adrenal/medpack, with Hold the Line, etc). The only time you should ever be killed while Reactive Shield is active is:

 

- You use it way too late (ie. less than 20% HP)

- You are vastly outnumbered because you are alone/no one is assisting

 

or a combination of the two. Obviously for DPS, this is a different story.

 

Besides that, the changes you suggest to ammo, for the healers at least, won't happen. It will be overpowered. Why? Because the efficiency you suggest would dwarf the efficiency the spec had before 1.2 (aka a time when Combat Medics were overpowered). The over-efficiency is the whole reason the spec got nerfed into the state its been in for 1.5 years, and the devs have explicitly said the reason ammo is so hard to manage is BECAUSE ITS A LIMIT TO COMBAT MEDICS. So while perhaps the other specs could use some improvement in that department -- I'll defer to someone who has more experience with them -- for healers its not going to happen, at least not to the extent you are advocating. A change to how much ammo Supercharged Cells returns, or a reduction in Medical Probe's cost while Field Triage is up, make a lot of sense and seems reasonable -- lowering the cost of everything to the point of being able to spam them indefinitely just won't happen.

 

EDIT: I'd also say that there is one suggestion in there that is kind of buried under everything that is very intriguing though, which is removing the cooldown on Advanced Medical Probe entirely. That alone would be interesting to test, because it removes the bottleneck that can shutdown a Combat Medic in PVP and expands group-healing because its HOT can be kept on multiple players simultaneously. Its the kind of subtle change that is what the class really needs, not an overhauling.

Edited November 1, 2013 by SpaniardInfinity

[Malckiah]

That poster was probably referring to the fact that most of all of the other suggestions you quoted, other than that one, would not have been "remotely balanced".

 

Also, while that specified change would essentially be 6 seconds of easy-mode immunity, that change alone would do nothing for the people who already have trouble with the other 110 seconds when Reactive Shield is not available. Reactive Shield already is god-mode for people who know how to use it properly (the healers that is -- DPS is a different story).

 

Well you can't make every class invincible for everyone. There really would be no need for anything more than that added. And this whole time I have essentially been asking for only one thing..... A WAY TO STAY ALIVE THROUGH A SHORT DURATION OF HEAVY FOCUS FIRE.....that is all I have been saying the whole time. As far as a way of accomplishing that goal is why we post and exchange thoughts on here.

 

There is no need for many of you to be so rude and attack people so much. Some idea's are good, some idea's are not so good. But sometimes even the "bad" idea's can steer us closer to the right choice. Chill out!

[Malckiah]

Ok, so perhaps we should all start this thread from scratch here. If you don't start with a solid foundation the building will not last.

We all play the Commando here (or so I hope so). This thread is here so we can suggest changes to the class. But we all seem to have sooo many different idea's going in soooo many different directions. In order to come to similar terms we need to start from the same place.

For instance:

What issues do you actually have with the class?

If we can't establish the issues we will not be able to come up with possible solutions.

 

What is your spec and what is your focus?....Healer, DPS, as well as PvE, PvP, or ranked PvP?

The needs may and probably are different for each playstyle.

 

Also, I noticed a lot of things listed on here are more want, rather than need for balance.

This thread should not be a wish list to make an invincible character, but a way to try and balance the class.

 

Having said that, My issue only arises when I am playing the new ranked pvp. It is common that Commando's get focused early on and we are the only class that does not have a way to survive through the initial burst damage of 3 or 4 people all at once. Earlier in this thread I listed the abilities that each class has in which to do so. So, I see this as a definite NEED for the Commando in order to bring a bit of balance.

The change that I think is best as of late would be to change Reactive Shield so that it gives around 6 seconds of 100% damage reduction. There are other ways to achieve the same goal, but this one seems best as of late.

This change is very much needed as season 1 will be starting soon.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Malckiah

[kennethdale]

Ok, so perhaps we should all start this thread from scratch here. If you don't start with a solid foundation the building will not last.

We all play the Commando here (or so I hope so). This thread is here so we can suggest changes to the class. But we all seem to have sooo many different idea's going in soooo many different directions. In order to come to similar terms we need to start from the same place.

For instance:

What issues do you actually have with the class?

If we can't establish the issues we will not be able to come up with possible solutions.

 

What is your spec and what is your focus?....Healer, DPS, as well as PvE, PvP, or ranked PvP?

The needs may and probably are different for each playstyle.

 

Also, I noticed a lot of things listed on here are more want, rather than need for balance.

This thread should not be a wish list to make an invincible character, but a way to try and balance the class.

 

Having said that, My issue only arises when I am playing the new ranked pvp. It is common that Commando's get focused early on and we are the only class that does not have a way to survive through the initial burst damage of 3 or 4 people all at once. Earlier in this thread I listed the abilities that each class has in which to do so. So, I see this as a definite NEED for the Commando in order to bring a bit of balance.

The change that I think is best as of late would be to change Reactive Shield so that it gives around 6 seconds of 100% damage reduction. There are other ways to achieve the same goal, but this one seems best as of late.

This change is very much needed as season 1 will be starting soon.

 

I play Assault and Gunnery primarily in PvE but I also PvP. The issues are our resources are not in line with other classes and neither are our CDs. We are too reliant on casts and procs. As a result of all of these, we are easily shut down in PvE by either mechanics that force us to move frequently and in PvP by melee and any one with an interrupt. So, basically we get shut down in every boss fight and every PvP match. When I go into arenas I'm typically the first focused (and I focus mercs/mandos first) because of how squishy they are. I focus them above Sorcs because I know they have nothing to stop me save for a stun. I giggle with glee when I see a Merc/Mando healer because again I know how easily I can just massacre him. Someone said that Mando healers have invincibility with reactive shield up...as long as they are full up on resolve? Well, thats why I never stun them until I see them pop their bubble. I can easily DPS through their heals until they pop it then its Electro Dart > Power Surge > Concussion Missile and they're down the whole bubble. Then I throw a AP with a few seconds left, queue up a HIB>FA>HIB and count my medals. The only time a Gunnery Mando can put out good DPS is when they're allowed to free-cast...which is why they get hit so hard so fast. Subsequently, I run Assault because I don't really need any full casts. People tend to be a fan of interrupting my FA which is fine by me because that first tick is all I need to proc IA and get my HIB reset. In regs getting my dots cleansed isn't really a problem and when someone DOES its easy enough to hit them with Hammer Shot and put up CGC again so I can HIB. Then someone 2 smashers decide I look like a fun target and I lose 16k with double smash, Force Choke x2 then another some Vicious throws to finish me off. Oh, but I popped AR, RS, AND Chaff Flare and guess what? I still died. 3 CDs and it doesn't change how easily they kill me at all. That is completely backwards. Our CDs should make people not want to attack us. That's what is wrong.

[schooch]

I giggle with glee when I see a Merc/Mando healer because again I know how easily I can just massacre him.

 

It makes me laugh so hard when people say stuff like this.

[SpaniardInfinity]

There is no need for many of you to be so rude and attack people so much. Some idea's are good, some idea's are not so good. But sometimes even the "bad" idea's can steer us closer to the right choice. Chill out!

 

Not sure if this is directed at me, but I'm not trying to be rude. I'm just trying to be practical and think of what is and isn't balanced. So hopefully no one takes any offense at my critiques.

 

What is your spec and what is your focus?....Healer, DPS, as well as PvE, PvP, or ranked PvP?

 

Predominately PVP healing. I've been doing ranked since its launch as a Combat Medic (300+ matches) and now I'm healing in Ranked Arenas. Although I prefer to do ranked, more often than not I'm healing in regular warzones.

 

The main problem I see with healing is the fact that there is a bottleneck in the toolset -- a single interrupt on Medical Probe when all other abilities are on cooldown (which occurs fairly frequently) and less than 27 stacks of charge can effectively shutdown the Combat Medic until a cooldown finishes or they can get Medical Probe/Supercharged.

 

I still think the best way of addressing this is making Supercharge build faster by some means. The more often Supercharge is up, the more often the bottleneck is alleviated (you have 2 heals without a cooldown instead of 1). Because of the nerfs Supercharge received in 1.2, Supercharge is used almost exclusively for the purpose of ending the cooldown on Advanced Medical Probe and to a lesser extent for the ammo regeneration (this is because of the nerfs in 1.2 -- the reduced healing output while Supercharged has made it so the difference between using it whenever available and never using it at all [by staying at 30 stacks] is insignificant to output).

 

Ammo management is tight and I don't expect them to make it easier anytime soon, at least not in light over their recent responses. A more likely result is that the efficiency of other specs will be brought closer in line with us, namely Scoundrel healers (who can presently heal indefinitely, which breaks this design). It could be made easier with some procs, but the changes should not be sweeping (ie. lowering the cost to the point of enabling spamming of critical abilities).

 

Utilities have always needed address because of their long cooldowns and limited effects. This horse has been beaten for so long that I really hope its not in vain. There are many suggestions of how to do this that in this thread and plenty of others.

 

Output is fine where it is -- you can get 15k+ in a single GCD if you follow Medical Probe with Bacta Infusion and both crit -- the problem just tends to be getting it out, but resolving this can be addressed through utility changes or addressing the bottleneck (both discussed above). I also generally ignore claims about the output needing a buff (ie. people that advocate increasing the healing of each ability by 1000+) purely because the numbers they cite are often considerably lower than the stats I observe on my own Combat Medic after bolster, and I'm wearing stock (augmented) Conqueror gear with maximum expertise. In other words, something is amiss -- either my gear is lying to me, or the numbers they give are wrong.

 

Last but not least is survivability, I will stubbornly say doesn't need changing. I'm not sure how many of you have been playing since 1.2, but trust me when I say, Combat Medics cooldowns are more than enough. Their other weaknesses make these defensives look weaker than they are. As someone whose been around since launch -- I know how powerful they really are. Improve the class' with QoL changes and address the bottleneck in some way and you will see how truly effective the defensives are. Improving the defensives is great while they're up, but they are relatively short and do not help address the problems the spec has the other 90% of the time when these defensives aren't active.

 

EDIT:

 

It makes me laugh so hard when people say stuff like this.

 

There is no better feeling that just shrugging off a DPS that expects any easy kill

Edited November 2, 2013 by SpaniardInfinity

[KatieKatPrincess]

What issues do you actually have with the class?

If we can't establish the issues we will not be able to come up with possible solutions.

 

What is your spec and what is your focus?....Healer, DPS, as well as PvE, PvP, or ranked PvP?

The needs may and probably are different for each playstyle.

 

I play PvE as both a healer and a gunnery DPS.

 

My issues are as follows:

• AoE/Multi-Target healing is difficult

• Hold the line is slow

• Energy Management as a healer (I don't have much issue in gunnery)

• Grav Round takes awhile to cast unless you're using the buff to make it insta cast (I'd really like to not add alacrity to my gear)

• A commando in my guild will actually stand in stupid while using Full Auto just to keep DPS but then move after casting.

• Gunnery tree has useless things that you have to put points into in order to open next branch

• PvP as a gunnery is poopy

 

Maybe I need to learn to play or whatever but these are my issues with the class and I don't have any solutions. I just kind of feel like, "I have a big cannon, I should be able to do more damage."

[Cleet_Xia]

Listen Venomlash Cleet_Xia I know you think I am nuts but trust me I am running so low on ammo when I take on these healers its not even funny. As for the grav round I am not convinced you do not need three any more. I seem to get a higher dps output with the demo round and HIB when I put 3 grav rounds on them. I know I know the game says otherwise. I am going by what I see. Not to mention its not like they really lowered the cool down on demo round or HIB so even if I just used one I still would be running into a dps problem. Not sure why my ammo is not recharging that well all I know is I put two full sets off and I am running pretty much dry. Yes I use full auto all the time, but these days I am starting to wonder if that's not bugged. Of course that could be a balance issue. When I use full auto on sorcs, and assassins they just force run at full speed out of it. Heck even charged bolts now has a major pushback to them. Sometimes I cant even put off one major dps attack because of the interrupts, resets to my abilities, and constant resets on my pushbacks.

 

Venomlash? LOL.... there wasn't any venom in my words, it was surprise. If that rotation is running you out of ammo in 2 rotations, you are using the wrong cell, end of story. In full gunnery spec, Armor Piercing Cell gives you two very important ammo breaks. (Special Munitions in tier 2 & Cell Charger in tier 4) You need those, and they depend on your using Armor Piercing Cells. If you want to lead off with 3x Grav round for the buff to armor & HIB, it's still not going to run you out of ammo unless you're using the wrong cell/ no cell. I was simply trying to explain that as concisely as possible.

 

If you want to continue trying to play gunnery spec while using Combat Support Cell, Plasma Cell, or No Cell....by all means, be my guest.

 

The phenomenon where your Full Auto cancels when your target leaves range ~ that effects all channeled casts, across all the classes, that's why there is a talent that adds a 70% slow effect to the target of your Full Auto (Cover Fire in Tier 5).

[cashogy_reborn]

This thread.... ew.

 

Hold the Line baseline is not weak. 6s of immunity to all CC but hard/soft stun plus 30% movement modifier is great for getting out of dodge. Even in Pyro/Assault spec. However, Gunny/Arsenal does it better. Which is why I would *never* play Pyro/Assault competitively atm

 

Commando doesnt need stealth, damage immunity, or any other absurd thing that might have been written that I really cant be asked to read through.

 

This thread was a bad idea Eric Musco................

Edited November 2, 2013 by cashogy_reborn

[Monstein]

The more I think about it the more I think there is really only one thing I would like to see.

 

Grav round colors match my crystal.

[akabane_k]

The more I think about it the more I think there is really only one thing I would like to see.

 

Grav round colors match my crystal.

 

heal beam too, while were at it. But seriously, commandos need more resistance to interrupts, shorter cds on some abilities(reserve powercell, tso, maybe reactive shield), maybe some ammo management, and not having adrenaline rush reset if you dont use. Not stealth, not immunity to most dmg, not half cost of most abilities.

[CrazyOldMystic]

Re-posting from the Merc forums, I tried to fix all of the merc terms for mando ones sorry if I missed some.

 

General

1) Reactive Shield has been redesigned. "Surrounds yourself in a protective shield that absorbs all ranged, tech, and force attacks for 8 seconds. Cooldown 120s."

 

2) Sticky Grenade has had its ammo cost reduced to 10.

 

3) Adrenaline Has been redesigned. "Overloads your suits Kolto Injection System causing it to heal you for 2% of your maximum health every second for 8 seconds. Cooldown 240s."

 

4) Plasma Grenade has had its ammo cost reduced to 10.

 

5) Advanced Medical Probe has had its ammo cost increased to 20 and its cooldown removed.

 

6) Hold the Line has had its speed increase boosted from 30% to 80%.

 

7) Explosive Round has had its ammo cost reduced to 15.

 

8) Charged Bolts has had its ammo cost reduced to 15.

 

9) Tech Override has been removed and replaced with "Emergency Field Stabilization - Activates your emergency field stabilization protocols allowing you to continue casting while moving for 15s. Cooldown 120s."

 

10) High Impact Bolt has had its ammo cost reduced to 8.

 

11) Shockstrike has been redesigned. "Strikes the target with the butt of the rifle, dealing 2247 - 2463 kinetic damage and rooting the target in place for 3s. Range 4m. Cooldown 9s. Ammo cost 8."

 

12) Reserve Powercell has been redesigned. "Activates your reserve powercell and causes your abilities to use no ammo. This effect lasts 10 seconds. Cooldown 90s."

 

13) Full Auto has had its ammo cost reduced to 12.

 

14) Added the ability "Out of Harm's Way - Fires your Assault Cannon at the ground causing you to fly backwards rapidly 35m and rooting all enemies in a 5m range for 3s. Cooldown 120s. Ammo cost 20."

 

Combat Medic

1) The Talent "Field Triage" is changed to "Reduces the ammo cost of Medical Probe by 5. In addition, Advanced Medical Probe has a 33/66/100% chance to lower the cost of your next Medical Probe by 5."

 

2) "Bacta Infusion" now heals for 1200-1750 instead of 758-1299.

 

4) The Talent "Field Medicine" has had its text changed to "Increases the healing done by Medical Probe by 3/6%. In addition, Medical Probe, Advanced Medical Probe, and Bacta Infusion each build 3/6 stacks of Combat Support Cell."

 

5) The Talent "Supercharged Cell" has had its text changed to "Converts 30 charges of Combat Support Cell to supercharge your blasters, venting 8 heat, increasing all damage and healing dealt by 5% for 10 seconds, and granting immunity to push back and interrupts. While active, the following abilities gain Supercharge affects:

Charged Bolts: Ammo cost reduced by 100%.

Full Auto: Ammo cost reduced by 100%.

Advanced Medical Probe: Ammo Cost reduced by 50%.

Bacta Infusion: Amount healed increased by 20%.

Kolto Bomb: Places a shield on all targets reducing damage taken by 5% for 10 seconds."

 

6) The Talent "Frontline Medic" has been redesigned. "Causes your Out of Harm's Way to leave a Kolto Pool on the ground for 15s healing for 100-200 and increasing healing received by 5%."

 

Gunnery

1) Grav Round has had its ammo cost has been reduced to 15.

 

2) Demolition Round has had its ammo cost has been reduced to 10.

 

3) The Talent "Concussive Force" has had its text changed to "Shockstrike has a 50/100% chance to knock the target back 10m. In addition Concussion Charge's knockback effect is stronger and knocks enemies back an additional 2/4m."

 

4) The Talent "Cell Charger" has had its text change to "While Armor Piercing Cell is active you recover an additional 1/2 ammo every 1.5s.

 

5) Overclock has been replaced with "Overclocked Stabilization". "Reduces the cooldown of Emergency Field Stabilization by 15/30s and increases its duration by 5/10s."

 

Assault

1) Incendiary Round has had its ammo cost reduced to 10.

 

2) Assault has had its Ammo cost reduced to 10.

 

3) Combustible Gas Cell has had its rate limit removed.

 

4) Electro Shield has had its external damage increased to 1800 up from 180.

 

I like some of these ideas including the stock strike knocking back players its pretty bad that npcs stock strike does this and the players class does not. It used to until they messed up cryo so it did not work with blitz.. As for the balance well ill leave that up to the devs. I would just like to see the commando not being hit with a sledge hammer every time we are able to take down a healer, sniper, or a operative.

 

As to the other poster not seeing your hostility yes I am running with armor piercing cell. If you would have looked at the pvp forums you would have noticed I am not the only one having major issues with these healers. For once its not the sage/sorc healers. Get into pvp with pvp gear try taking down a operative healer that knows what they are doing then get back to me. Or for that matter a merc healer.

 

For the one poster spin it all you want bud. You have called people loudmouths, L2P players, insulted peoples ideas, and now you want to act like the guy with normal suggestions sorry it does not fly. Next time before you start down the road of hostility try thinking first. Then maybe most people will take you seriously. Before you bring up the next thing the only Idea ive insulted here myself was the one shooting yourself to heal yourself that was way over the edge, and would turn our class into a laughable joke not to mention the game.

 

As far as balanced ideas. Here is one for you operatives can stun lock and kill a target without ever coming under fire. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=693345 Now they are about to give them even more dps. So I wouldn't be at all concerned about our class becoming op.

[Malckiah]

Well one thing to consider HEAVILY that is NOT being considered at the moment by some is this scenario:

 

My full of himself elected Joe Blow always goes into a ranked match with his special group. His special group is a well oiled team that knows he will get focused hard, so during that time they do what is necessary to keep him around such as heal him through it, put a bubble of protection on him, etc etc.

Funny thing is, because Joe Blow always goes in with his special buddies, he has no clue of some of the actual class needs. In fact he says to himself...Oh I am so great, I don't need all those things that the others in the forums say we need...I do just fine without it.

 

Well, in the real world of the game a lot of people play in pug groups. Pug groups do not work together as a well oiled team. pug groups do not think of healing a focused comrade through heavy focused fire or putting a bubble of protection on him or peeling the bad guys off. Pug group just don't do this. So in reality someone who does a lot of pug groups would know what the class needs truly are better than Mr. Joe blow always in a well oiled team.

 

Because it is about class balance....NOT team balance!

 

Nuff said.

[Lalainnia]

Out of curiosity would having 200 ammo or 250 ammo be overpowered with the same base costs we have now??

 

This is for ammo management not interrupt immunity or utility.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Lalainnia

[Lalainnia]

Re-posting from the Merc forums, I tried to fix all of the merc terms for mando ones sorry if I missed some.

 

General

1) Reactive Shield has been redesigned. "Surrounds yourself in a protective shield that absorbs all ranged, tech, and force attacks for 8 seconds. Cooldown 120s."

 

2) Sticky Grenade has had its ammo cost reduced to 10.

 

3) Adrenaline Has been redesigned. "Overloads your suits Kolto Injection System causing it to heal you for 2% of your maximum health every second for 8 seconds. Cooldown 240s."

 

4) Plasma Grenade has had its ammo cost reduced to 10.

 

5) Advanced Medical Probe has had its ammo cost increased to 20 and its cooldown removed.

 

6) Hold the Line has had its speed increase boosted from 30% to 80%.

 

7) Explosive Round has had its ammo cost reduced to 15.

 

8) Charged Bolts has had its ammo cost reduced to 15.

 

9) Tech Override has been removed and replaced with "Emergency Field Stabilization - Activates your emergency field stabilization protocols allowing you to continue casting while moving for 15s. Cooldown 120s."

 

10) High Impact Bolt has had its ammo cost reduced to 8.

 

11) Shockstrike has been redesigned. "Strikes the target with the butt of the rifle, dealing 2247 - 2463 kinetic damage and rooting the target in place for 3s. Range 4m. Cooldown 9s. Ammo cost 8."

 

12) Reserve Powercell has been redesigned. "Activates your reserve powercell and causes your abilities to use no ammo. This effect lasts 10 seconds. Cooldown 90s."

 

13) Full Auto has had its ammo cost reduced to 12.

 

14) Added the ability "Out of Harm's Way - Fires your Assault Cannon at the ground causing you to fly backwards rapidly 35m and rooting all enemies in a 5m range for 3s. Cooldown 120s. Ammo cost 20."

 

Combat Medic

1) The Talent "Field Triage" is changed to "Reduces the ammo cost of Medical Probe by 5. In addition, Advanced Medical Probe has a 33/66/100% chance to lower the cost of your next Medical Probe by 5."

 

2) "Bacta Infusion" now heals for 1200-1750 instead of 758-1299.

 

4) The Talent "Field Medicine" has had its text changed to "Increases the healing done by Medical Probe by 3/6%. In addition, Medical Probe, Advanced Medical Probe, and Bacta Infusion each build 3/6 stacks of Combat Support Cell."

 

5) The Talent "Supercharged Cell" has had its text changed to "Converts 30 charges of Combat Support Cell to supercharge your blasters, venting 8 heat, increasing all damage and healing dealt by 5% for 10 seconds, and granting immunity to push back and interrupts. While active, the following abilities gain Supercharge affects:

Charged Bolts: Ammo cost reduced by 100%.

Full Auto: Ammo cost reduced by 100%.

Advanced Medical Probe: Ammo Cost reduced by 50%.

Bacta Infusion: Amount healed increased by 20%.

Kolto Bomb: Places a shield on all targets reducing damage taken by 5% for 10 seconds."

 

6) The Talent "Frontline Medic" has been redesigned. "Causes your Out of Harm's Way to leave a Kolto Pool on the ground for 15s healing for 100-200 and increasing healing received by 5%."

 

Gunnery

1) Grav Round has had its ammo cost has been reduced to 15.

 

2) Demolition Round has had its ammo cost has been reduced to 10.

 

3) The Talent "Concussive Force" has had its text changed to "Shockstrike has a 50/100% chance to knock the target back 10m. In addition Concussion Charge's knockback effect is stronger and knocks enemies back an additional 2/4m."

 

4) The Talent "Cell Charger" has had its text change to "While Armor Piercing Cell is active you recover an additional 1/2 ammo every 1.5s.

 

5) Overclock has been replaced with "Overclocked Stabilization". "Reduces the cooldown of Emergency Field Stabilization by 15/30s and increases its duration by 5/10s."

 

Assault

1) Incendiary Round has had its ammo cost reduced to 10.

 

2) Assault has had its Ammo cost reduced to 10.

 

3) Combustible Gas Cell has had its rate limit removed.

 

4) Electro Shield has had its external damage increased to 1800 up from 180.

 

all nice changes except for the energy shield that's straight overpowered. Hold the line doesn't need increased movement speed imo if u want prob could give it to assault and call it something fancy like blazing speed. the overclocked stabilization shouldn't be 25 seconds total thats to long should be 20 seconds total.

 

Like the healing changes but supercharged cells shouldn't vent heat anymore but instead grant 10% alacrity. Full auto should be treated as a healing ability during SCC which would give us access to a channeled heal and ammo venting. Trauma probe really needs to be able to be put on 1 more person and increase the healing received by the commando from all heals by 5%.

 

The talent change to frontline medic imo with your out of harms way idea should just instantly build 20stacks of SCC instead. Iv'e been in plenty of situations where I said to myself omg why don't I have some sort of cd to give me X amount of SCC's. Our crit booster talent really needs to be at 20% in pvp my highest crit was 10k on myself with shield SCCs and a map adrenal that's not acceptable imo.

[SpaniardInfinity]

Well one thing to consider HEAVILY that is NOT being considered at the moment by some is this scenario:

 

My full of himself elected Joe Blow always goes into a ranked match with his special group. His special group is a well oiled team that knows he will get focused hard, so during that time they do what is necessary to keep him around such as heal him through it, put a bubble of protection on him, etc etc.

Funny thing is, because Joe Blow always goes in with his special buddies, he has no clue of some of the actual class needs. In fact he says to himself...Oh I am so great, I don't need all those things that the others in the forums say we need...I do just fine without it.

 

Well, in the real world of the game a lot of people play in pug groups. Pug groups do not work together as a well oiled team. pug groups do not think of healing a focused comrade through heavy focused fire or putting a bubble of protection on him or peeling the bad guys off. Pug group just don't do this. So in reality someone who does a lot of pug groups would know what the class needs truly are better than Mr. Joe blow always in a well oiled team.

 

Because it is about class balance....NOT team balance!

 

Nuff said.

 

I'll assume this is directed at me, and I'll say that I never said I wasn't biased. With that said, the majority of my time is spent in regular warzones and I do spend plenty of time queuing on my own or grouping outside my "well-oiled group". As a matter of fact, I've been guildless for about half a year now, I'm just too lazy to change my signature. One of my favorite things to do when I'm not healing is hop on my tank and guard healers in regular warzones and lot of my ideas come from them and what is troubling them. So you're right that most people play in PUGs, you are wrong about your generalization of me.

 

For instance, I don't have many troubles with ammo because I stack power very high. But if you check my post history (or read the guide I wrote on the spec), you'd know that I've always felt the system is too unforgiving and I'm also well aware that a single underheal can really stress your ammo if you don't land a crit (which is why I stack power in the first place). The learning curve is very steep -- the steepest of the healers I'd say. There's a very specific rotation you need to follow to stay ammo neutral as a Combat Medic, and you're just not going to be able to follow it in a warzone. There needs to be a little more flexibility in the system. I've made suggestions, as have others. But I'm also aware that the ammo is intended to be a limit so we cannot heal indefinitely, so its got to be small trial-and-error changes here and there rather than sweeping changes to every ability.

 

Interrupts do give me trouble, but I can usually find a way around it unless the opposing team is spot-on with locking me out of my casts. There is no disputing that there is a bottleneck in the system. I gave my solution for how to alleviate in a way that also helps improve more ammo regeneration (two birds, one stone). Removing pushback or at least overhauling, which the devs are considering, would also be welcome for all of the specs and should really benefit all of the healers. But I don't think its a good idea to have a high up-time on interrupt immunities mostly because I'm thinking for the attacker's perspective -- how fair is it that your biggest heals cannot be stopped more often than not (its one of the problems with Smugglers right now)? That's why Reactive Shield's interrupt immunity is fair to me -- it has only a 10% up-time. Could you experiment with other times, maybe after a Bacta Infusion? Sure. I'd really love there to be a relic that has a 30% chance to proc that makes you immune to interrupts for 4 seconds with a 40 second cooldown or something like that.

 

And so on. You can all it hostility or spin, but I'm working out a compromise. I love reading ideas in these kinds of threads because there are usually some really great ideas in there (ie. i forget who posted it but someone suggested allow you to tackle teammates like a reverse Rescue -- you have no idea how awesome this would be lol). But I like to be the devil's advocate and argue against things that are probably too potent, especially when two rather innocent changes synergize to become to powerful. Like these two:

 

5) Advanced Medical Probe has had its ammo cost increased to 20 and its cooldown removed.

 

4) The Talent "Field Medicine" has had its text changed to "Increases the healing done by Medical Probe by 3/6%. In addition, Medical Probe, Advanced Medical Probe, and Bacta Infusion each build 3/6 stacks of Combat Support Cell."

 

These changes in of themselves are great. But the combination makes it really powerful, and probably too powerful. Output would go up a lot because AMP is no longer gated by a 7.5 second cooldown, and that means the AMP --MP bread-and-butter combination can be used outside of Supercharge. You'd even be able to have your Preventive Medicine/Armor Screen HOT rolling on multiple people at once, which you can't presently do outside of Supercharge. What's even better about it is that it would remove the bottleneck in the toolset almost entirely with that change alone. But its the second change that pushes it too far, in my opinion. It cuts the amount of time required to build a Supercharge which means its going to be up more or less every 10 seconds instead of every 20 seconds. The output isn't so significant as the ammo regeneration increase that synergizes with the additional energy regeneration that comes from Medical Probe's lower effective cost (with Field Triage it would now be only slightly cheaper than Kolto Bomb). You'd be able to heal indefinitely, and the devs have said they don't want that. It's why I'm taking the stance I am.

 

Basically, I want to see the spec get buffed because it has been struggling for a year and a half. It's pretty much universally considered the worst healer in both PVP and PVE, and that's not a completely false statement either. But I also don't want to see the spec get buffed so much that it gets gutted, because that's exactly what happened last time. I'm also quick to argue against changes that make ammo as efficient as the Smuggler system because it seems likely that system is about to get nerfed (if not, Sages/Commandos will be getting buffed to their level, in which case its a win-win for us anyway).

 

[/Essay]

Edited November 2, 2013 by SpaniardInfinity