Lafay Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 If Vengence gets Overwhelm, then Carnage should get Unstoppable, its only fair right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorvinAugeri Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 So it begins, the great homogenization of our time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 No... for the love of god no... though they do need something to deal with the massive amount of CC/knockbacks/roots that totally shut down carnage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DresG Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 No... for the love of god no... though they do need something to deal with the massive amount of CC/knockbacks/roots that totally shut down carnage... No, you can root with 2 different skills, if you get kited as carnage/combat then l2p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NogueiraA Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I play a marauder AND a Jugg and I can say NO to this, why? Cammo + cloack of pain + undying rage + obfuscate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 No, you can root with 2 different skills, if you get kited as carnage/combat then l2p Who said anything about getting kited... you knockback/cc/root during the gore window to shut down their burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregAlia Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Not no but hell no. First off its a bad idea for juggs. This was a quick response to a less desirable spec that was unnecessary and unimaginative. No one in the jugg community wanted this. I would rather have stolen yalls 9k screams then that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lafay Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 It's the same thing, they are giving overwhelm to jugs because ravage is a big chunk of their damage. The same holds true for the "gore window". This gore window is easily stuned/knocked back/mez. It holds true that if the jug deserves overwhelm because ravage is a sizable chunk of their damage, then carnage should get cc immunity for some/most its gore window. Just a little stat for ya, on a dummy parse, 45% of a carnage marauders damage comes out of the tiny 4.5 second window, more in pvp when you cc/camo/ect to fill the time between gore windows. CC them here and you cut their dps by half. It is that easy. Just to set things straight, were talking about the ability for a class to do damage. Leave the discussion of defensive cooldowns for the other threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregAlia Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Not no but hell no. First off its a bad idea for juggs. This was a quick response to a less desirable spec that was unnecessary and unimaginative. No one in the jugg community wanted this. I would rather have stolen yalls 9k screams then that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyDragonflame Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Finally Shien became a bit competitive with Ataru. but bads ofc begins crying and whining about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrekxxx Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Finally Shien became a bit competitive with Ataru. but bads ofc begins crying and whining about it... this ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znihilist Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Not really, because if you get lucky with one crit you could burn more than 60% of someone's health with a carnage burst window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphieceaser Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 they said they gave that to juggs because ravage is one of their main and important dps skills while carnage has more core skills that dont need a buff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olcraft Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 If Vengence gets Overwhelm, then Carnage should get Unstoppable, its only fair right? Unlike Vig/Veng, you got gore, alacrity, trescendence (you can move 80% faster! We never can), force camo (yes you got root immunity damn it! we don't!), crippling throw, pacify, all kinds of utilities. You guys can live without master strike. We can't. If we don't use master strike every time it comes off of the cooldown, our dps is grossly underpowered. Even with master strike root, no Vig/Veng should be able to defeat you 1 vs 1. If they can, you should learn 2 play from the very beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Root on Ravage isn't what I'd buff Vengeance with, but I suppose this would suffice. Carnage has its problems, but Vengeance getting Overwhelm aint one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gblXsw Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 So it begins, the great homogenization of our time. Perfect class balance will only be achievable once all classes have the same abilities! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ugolino Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 If Vengence gets Overwhelm, then Carnage should get Unstoppable, its only fair right? Sure thing, buddy! Give us the Ataru proc and the alacrity on MS and we'll call it even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lafay Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Unlike Vig/Veng, you got gore, alacrity, trescendence (you can move 80% faster! We never can), force camo (yes you got root immunity damn it! we don't!), crippling throw, pacify, all kinds of utilities. You guys can live without master strike. We can't. If we don't use master strike every time it comes off of the cooldown, our dps is grossly underpowered. Even with master strike root, no Vig/Veng should be able to defeat you 1 vs 1. If they can, you should learn 2 play from the very beginning. Jugs have lots of stuff marauders dont have, saber-reflech, push, reset on leap, intercede, aoe slow, fake health(13k wz medpack) ect. This should have nothing to do with them getting a marauder exclusive talent. I am glad classes are different, and this is a blatant theft of an ability (for lack of imagination to fix the actual issues), so you can start so see how stupid this is. See all the qq about a marauder getting unstoppable, that's the same way i feel about a jug getting overwhelm. They are already hard to fight on my sorc. Unstoppable is insanely good when in situations with stun heavy classes, it basically ruins a sorcs day right now. The only thing a dps sorc can do is barrier it or break the root, both of witch are on huge cooldowns. With overwhelm, they will pretty much be a super hard counter to sorcs, ops, and merc's without enet and they know it. I play many classes, and giving jugs this ability is too much for a class with unstoppable. In summary, this is bs. Too bad it will take the cry of a million dead sorcs to get it noticed. Edited October 19, 2013 by Lafay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ugolino Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) In summary, this is bs. Too bad it will take the cry of a million dead sorcs to get it noticed. Look, as much as it's unfair to you, sorcs are already dying if the other team so much as sneezes at them. Frankly, this won't be even so much as a nail in that coffin, and Vengeance deserves SOMETHING after literal years of neglect. Unstoppable is only truly useful for guaranteeing the start a master strike, making being the first one to leap into a crowd very slightly less suicidal, and surprising people who'd forgotten your spec existed when they try to instinctively stun the Jugg leaper and watch it bounce off. Edited October 19, 2013 by Ugolino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lafay Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Look, as much as it's unfair to you, sorcs are already dying if the other team so much as sneezes at them. Frankly, this won't be even so much as a nail in that coffin, and Vengeance deserves SOMETHING after literal years of neglect. Unstoppable is only truly useful for guaranteeing the start a master strike, making being the first one to leap into a crowd very slightly less suicidal, and surprising people who'd forgotten your spec existed when they try to instinctively stun the Jugg leaper and watch it bounce off. I am all for making specs better, but if they start stealing talents it's kinda lame. I agree with your "sneezing comment" they are pretty squishy, when u get a hold of them. With overwhelm, you will have them nailed to the floor taking the biggest hits warriors can offer for 5 seconds before allowed to move. That is a bit much isn't it? Heres an idea, lets give vengence jugs orbital strike, that will fix them. Edited October 19, 2013 by Lafay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ugolino Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I am all for making specs better, but if they start stealing talents it's kinda lame. I agree with your "sneezing comment" they are pretty squishy, when u get a hold of them, with overwhelm, you will have them nailed to the floor taking the biggest hits warriors can offer for 5 seconds before allowed to move. That is a bit much isn't it? Heres an idea, lets give vengence jugs orbital strike, that will fix them. Well we needed something, and at least you can see the reasoning. Look at it this way: it can't get much worse. If Sorcs are losing a match-up between them and Vengeance, it's because they got the nerf bat worse and not because of any OPness on the Vengeance's part. Or are you arguing Vengeance does well against any other class in the game? (Also a stacked Smash+Master strike from a Rage Jugg probably hits harder.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easeyway Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Why am I not surprised... First they make Ravage uninterruptable...Because, a class that has only ONE major DPS cast, and even that is a CHANNEL, like PT Flame Thrower/Ravage. BW: Yep, needs interrupt protection. Of course, Mercenary doesn't need interrupt protection on their major channeled ability (Unload). Of course not. After all, it's 30 meters, and our beloved Juggernauts only have 3 possible gap closers (leap->push->leap->guardian leap), with grand total of 3 interrupts (2x leap + push), an interrupt ability, and possibly 2 stuns. Oh, and let's not forget the possible total CC immunity to everything after leap. That's 5-6 interrupt abilities on one class. Together with ability pushback... Now even the CC immunity is not enough...Yep, needs a root to that Ravage too! Everything BW has ever done in this game has been biased towards making melee DPS unavoidable. Like making Smash more instant because it was totally too hard to land before. Let's keep Mercenary pushback with over 1 second delay though. Seems fair. Thanks BW. Edited October 19, 2013 by easeyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I am all for making specs better, but if they start stealing talents it's kinda lame. I agree with your "sneezing comment" they are pretty squishy, when u get a hold of them. With overwhelm, you will have them nailed to the floor taking the biggest hits warriors can offer for 5 seconds before allowed to move. That is a bit much isn't it? Heres an idea, lets give vengence jugs orbital strike, that will fix them. Because you can't punt the Jugg before the third Ravage blow (the one that does most damage), right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olcraft Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I am all for making specs better, but if they start stealing talents it's kinda lame. I agree with your "sneezing comment" they are pretty squishy, when u get a hold of them. With overwhelm, you will have them nailed to the floor taking the biggest hits warriors can offer for 5 seconds before allowed to move. That is a bit much isn't it? Heres an idea, lets give vengence jugs orbital strike, that will fix them. HAHAHAHAHAHA stop copying my talents you filthy smash marauder copycats! HAHAHAHAHAHA You sir are truly a whiner. If you were a sorc I would have sympathy for you. But as a sent, you don't deserve any pity. Learn 2 Play! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lafay Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) HAHAHAHAHAHA stop copying my talents you filthy smash marauder copycats! HAHAHAHAHAHA You sir are truly a whiner. If you were a sorc I would have sympathy for you. But as a sent, you don't deserve any pity. Learn 2 Play! I main a marauder. I do however love playing my sorc and vengence jugs are hell to a dps sorc (healer specs has unroot on force speed, no issues here). I like to think im pretty good at it and have no issues running away and "healing to full" from other classes. Vengence is another story tho, i have to wait out all the roots on leaps and pushes and more leaps before i can stun and run away, or knock them back. Meanwhile after 12ish seconds of me not being able to do anything besides a bubble and self heal and maybe toss out affliction the jug has me at well below 50% hp before i really get to fight back. I however am definitely not a sentinel. I would never lower myself to be Jedi Scum. When fighting one on my PT or marauder or OP, its a different story tho. My marauder just blinds and goes about his business(wont change). My PT is a tank and well, i brush them off(wont change save for more HO). My op can poof out, or evasion, or just heal through it (wont change). You start to see how this ability is very narrow in its uses. Really it will make the classes that are hurting, much more worse off (merc without enet, dps sorc, dps ops) Edited October 19, 2013 by Lafay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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