Cover changes proposed in 2.5 Discussion thread.

[Sildanar]

The Changes proposed

 

Operatives and Scoundrels

 

Operatives and Scoundrels can now be charged and pulled by other players while in cover. For Snipers and Gunslingers, cover remains unchanged.

 

Operatives and Scoundrels are very slippery, and we never intended for them to continue using cover after choosing to be an Operative/Scoundrel rather than a Sniper/Gunslinger at level 10. However, with the innate cover defenses being provided to Operatives and Scoundrels, we incentivized the use of cover beyond level 10 for them. Some Operatives and Scoundrels picked up on this incentive and used cover to become more survivable than we had intended for them to be.

 

With this change, we are moving all remaining defensive bonuses granted by cover into the Hold Position passive ability, which Snipers and Gunslingers already have. So while Operatives and Scoundrels will still be able to enter cover to use any abilities that require it, they will no longer gain any defensive bonuses while in cover. For Snipers and Gunslingers, this change has no real, noticeable effect.

 

I have played Sawbones since before 1.2.

I think allowing us to be leaped to and or pulled while in cover is sad but necessary.

It will also change activating the doors in Voidstar in cover as well

 

However I would like to retain some defensive effect of cover if only to give it some meaning of actually being in cover

 

currently

 

Ability

 

Crouch

Instant

Cooldown: 1s

Crouches in place, taking cover if used behind an object that provides cover. Crouching enables the use of cover-only abilities, and so long as you remain down behind a cover object, most ranged attackers strike your cover instead.

 

I personally would like to see the protection provided from ranged damaging attacks to remain while DOWN behind an object.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

On an explanatory note, I currently use cover to heal from all the time in warzones...which with good positioning protects me from smash monkeys and (this is why it needs nerfing) promotes the other healers on my team as easier targets for Mara's or Jugg's to focus. If there are 2 healers in a WZ widely separated and one is in cover and one not. who do you think is going to get leaped to??

And yes I also constantly seek out objects to hide behind in WZ to utilize the defensive buff from ranged classes it provides.

 

TLDR: Being able to be leaped to or pulled in cover = necessary nerf, but please leave some defensive utility to crouch if we stay behind an object otherwise crouch/cover has no meaning.

 

Thanks for reading.

[Sir-Coffee]

They effectively killed scrappers and BUFFED ASSASSINS.

 

I unsubbed.

Edited October 18, 2013 by SithEBM

[swifferdude]

They effectively killed scrappers and BUFFED ASSASSINS.

 

I unsubbed.

 

.... They did not kill scrappers.....................

[ekimmak]

I really think they've missed the point here, or they're too busy trying to nerf the only functional healing class in PVP. Any defences they take out of a scoundrel in cover, they have to take out of a gunslinger in general. Anything they don't want to remove from gunslinger? They have to keep it for a scoundrel in COVER, but not in crouch.

[Sangrar]

This is dumbest nerf I have ever seen. They want to nerf heals, they nerf the whole class, slap the scrapper players in the face, and in all barely affect heals. Thank you Bioware for making even less sense than usual.

[metalfenix]

Maybe it was a needed nerf, but hell, op/scoundrel dps need SOMETHING that makes up for this survival nerf, and only get get a quick shot buff?

 

As a sawbones healer, I never used cover, sincerely, I felt out of place using it, losing a bit of my mobility. I think scoundrel AC needs a redesign, and take away cover and re-do the skills that require it.

[Sir-Coffee]

.... They did not kill scrappers.....................

 

Lul. Okay

[RougeBeaver]

The cover change won't hurt the heal tree everyone's crying about, they'll just remain mobile like always.

 

In fact, this will make the situation even worse since DPS Scoundrels are the most underperforming class in the game. So now everyone gets to see even more of the operative healers they hate so much!♪

 

What a farce. Bioware has no idea what they're doing, they've probably never even touched the class. This retarded nerf proves it beyond any shadow of a doubt.

[Lalainnia]

I hate scoundrels with a passion, but they should be able to keep the whole no leaping to and defensive perks while behind an object or when given the green man cover sign this feels like they lose something special to the smuggler/agent class just my opnion. I'm fine with cover not doing anything when they just crouch down in the middle of nowhere but the whole cover system I felt was kinda neat when I saw previews for the game before the game was even out.

[MeRRR]

I hate scoundrels with a passion, but they should be able to keep the whole no leaping to and defensive perks while behind an object or when given the green man cover sign this feels like they lose something special to the smuggler/agent class just my opnion. I'm fine with cover not doing anything when they just crouch down in the middle of nowhere but the whole cover system I felt was kinda neat when I saw previews for the game before the game was even out.

 

HATE SCOUNDRELS???

 

I do agree with this. Take the defensive bonuses away from the silly crouching in place, which just never made any sense to begin with. Leave it for when you use "natural cover" (I believe I recall a dev calling it that).

 

If this change does go through as planned, then Sab Charge should be usable outside of cover, as well as any other cover dependent abilities. Not that anything else ever gets used. If they are going to take away the small advantage that entering cover gives us, then they need to make sure we no longer have any need to use it, not keep one of our hardest hitting abilities tied to it.

 

Furthermore, If the devs really feel that they never intended scoundrels/operatives to use cover after choosing their AC, then they took a long time to actually do something about it... Just another glaring example that they are lacking vision for this class.

[Vorna]

The idea that the class was not designed with cover benefits in mind is ludicrous and insulting. To dismiss it at this point, after TWO years is a joke, and paints the person who wrote such a statement as not only clueless, but incompetent. This requires that this faulty claim must be disproved.

 

But, before I begin to refute the insane declaration that our design wasn't intended to incorporate the benefits of cover and crouch, I must take umbrage with a statement I have seen BioWare use to describe our class as of late:

Operatives and Scoundrels are very slippery

 

This is absolutely false. We have never been slippery. A more apt term for how we play can go to our most underpowered tree currently, "Scrapper."

 

We have always been the scrapper of the classes, the class that scraped by on leveraging our weak skillset to manage against immeasurable odds. We have always had specs at the bottom of the barrel, we have always had to scrape and scratch and claw our way to success. Even when Scrapper/Concealment was viewed as the most overpowered class, killing people in a few blows, we managed that by scra ping, by utilizing stacking adrenals and buffs. And that was the ONLY reason we were capable of it.

 

We've made Scrapper/Concealment work by using HIPS to use our opener again, which we were apparently not supposed to do.... We've made it work by using sabo charge as a ghetto finisher. We've made it work despite having awful energy management, we've done this by using our "auto attack," something that is pretty much unthinkable for other dps. We made it work when we had no way to catch up to our prey except "stealth." We've made it work as one of the strictest mdps with one defensive in dodge/evasion that's basically half a defensive. We've made it work by utilizing crouch to stop the tanks from easily getting us away from our prey. We've made it work, but just barely. We've clawed our way to success, but just barely.

 

We've made Dirty Fighting/Lethality work by using the few ranged abilities we use to our advantage. We play the range game, we open from range on melee to force them to come to us, to give us unimpeded time to damage them, to give us an advantage against their many tools to deal with us. We wait, and kite, and scrape until we have a chance to finish them off, to use our collected UH/TA on a barrage of wounding shots/culls to finish them off before they ground our face into the soil. We leverage our few abilities and all our cc, and crouch, to force them to play on our terms. We scrape for our victories, we win them with hardwork and perserverance.

 

Even as a healer, we have scraped. For all the talk about how overpowered we are (now), not only has it not always been that way (many of us remember launch, when we were the weakest of the healers), even today we scrape by. For all our supposed survivability, it's not for defensives or ways to get away or people off of us. It's because we can heal much (especially ourselves) through instas. But we are still at a severe disadvantage at focus healing someone from near death to survival as long as our casted heals are so easily interrupted. We are the quaint lifeline that can keep someone near death up long enough for another healer to save. We have always been the queens and kings of pillar humping, by popping in and out while hotting people, and that's not going to change with 2.5.

 

The only thing "slippery" about playing this class is our prey. Every other class makes our lives hell, they are the slippery ones. They leap away, or force speed away, or roll away, or knock us away. They snare us and root us. They stop us from stealthing. They pull us away. They kill us.

 

This is what it's like to play the class when we're not gibbed by the massive aoe fest. We are at the mercy of every other class, even when we succeed, we usually succeed because they were the poorer players. We succeeded because they blinked.

 

In many ways, it is the true Han Solo experience. We barely scrape by in an inhospitable world looking to knock us down. Our equipment is half broken, our tools are few, and that blaster really isn't a match for the "hokey religion." Sometimes, sometimes... we get that lucky shot, and after all the suffering, it makes it worth it. All the clawing and scra ping, and it brings us back. The few, the determined, the stubborn- that lucky shot brings us back.

 

We're not slippery, we're down on our luck and praying to get by. And maybe we get that break occasionally, and knock someone to their doom in a blind stroke of luck... but not really....

 

...No knockback.

 

-

If roll is what makes you consider us "slippery," let me inform you of the awful truth. Roll is a liability, not only is it a massive energy drain, it cannot be used in actual combat because every time we activate it we have to consider, "I could be bugged, I'll have to leave the warzone, I'll be forced to have wasted this time, and I'll be letting down my team." We have to ask ourselves if we'll willing to risk that every time we use the roll in pvp. To say we don't use it much because of the fear is an understatement. But hot damn, we can get the huttball or to a node before anyone else! That totally makes up for it's uselessness in every other pvp situation.

Addendum: That does not actually make up for it's uselessness in actual pvp.

-

 

So understand every time you call us "slippery," we find it quite insulting. We don't have the tools to be slippery, and it's just a big damned warning sign that you know nothing about the class BioWare. So please, never mention "slippery" again in any of your messages to us, unless it's to apologize for calling us "slippery."

 

*~-------------------------~*

 

So I shall now begin the process of refuting the faulty claim that we were not designed to have cover benefits:

 

The Positional Argument

 

All classes have either, an ability to alter their position to match their prey, alter the position of their prey or predator, or have abilities to ward against others changing their postion. Crouch was the Scoundrel and Operative's only ability on this front, and without it we lose the only tool we had against the barrage of classes that have multiple abilities on this front. To put this in perspective, I present a list of every one of these abilities:

 

• Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior have leap.
  
• Jedi Guardian and Sith Juggernaut have friendly leap.
  
• Jedi Gaurdian and Sith Juggernaut have force push.
  
• Vigilance and Vengence specs have immunity to cc after leap.
  
• Focus and Rage specs have a second leap.
  
• Jedi Consular and Sith Inquisitor have AOE Knockback.
  
• Jedi Sage and Sith Sorceror have immunity bubble.
  
• Jedi Shadow and Sith Assassin have teleport.
  
• Jedi Shadow and Sith Assassin have shroud/resilience which grant immunity to tech/force effects.
  
• Kinetic Combat and Darkness specs have pull.
  
• Troopers and Bounty Hunters have Hold the Line/Hydraulic Override which grants immunity to knockbacks and pulls.
  
• Vangaurd and Powertech have pull.
  
• Shield Specialist and Shield Tech have leap.
  
• Commandos and Mercenaries Have AOE Knockback.
  
• Smuggler and Imperial Agent gain immunity to leap and pulls while in cover or crouched.
  
• Gunslingers and Snipers have a knockback while in cover.
  
• Gunslingers and Sniper have Bunker Down/Entrench that grants immunity to all cc in cover.
  
• Sharpshooter and Marksmanship have access to another knockback.
  

 

There are 18 articles on this list. There are at least two articles for every class, with the exception of one class. The one class is our class, Scoundrel/Operative. And that one article is being taken away with 2.5. It is astounding BioWare would even consider this, if anything our abilities on this front should be growing, not shrinking, as the list has grown with time for other classes. The immunity while crouching was always intended, from a most basic balance standpoint, to take it away now after two years after most other classes has been given more options to control or not be controlled is unthinkable.

 

------

 

The Anti-Tank Argument

 

One of the things our benefits from crouch grant that we have direly needed is some form of protection from tanks. Since we don't have the survivability to handle going toe to toe with other melee, or being in an actual melee with it's aoe flying around, but we could use crouch to give us reprieve from their leaps and pulls when we're attacking our squishy ranged or healing target. We force them to come to us, or in the case of JG/SJ, use their friendly leap. We have no real defense when our prey is trying to get away from us, but when we're both not moving, this is an invaluable tool to give us a chance to kill them, otherwise we are at the mercy of the gaggles of superior classes with superior tools. They can still taunt us, they can still hurt our effort... but at least they have to work to get to us and make our job impossible.

 

------

 

The Healing Argument

 

Once upon a time, hotting and instaing was not a legitimate way to heal. It was fluff and expressed itself as fluff. It's still really fluff, but it's become more effective as changes have come. 3 stack on UH/TA began it. Then followed buffs to our group hot. Then energy management was made easier. The cost of of our hot was reduced. Expertise was buffed to make healing better. We have come to a point where what was unthinkable in a pre-1.2 world, has come to pass. You can be called a competant healer by never casting a heal.

 

Now, this doesn't mean you're a good healer. A good healer will try to save focused people, and the only way to do that is casting a heal. And that's where our problems begin. Other healers have tools to deal with interrupts, and multiple casted heals. We have exactly one casted heal we can use without UH/TA, and we have exactly one tool to deal with interrupts.

 

That one tool to deal with interrupts is the benefits from cover and crouch disallowing leaps to interrupt us. It gives us moments of reprieve to get our casted heals off. And this is not only a benefit to healers, this is a benefit to dps that get a chance to heal themself. This was intended. This was needed. Without this we're at a severe disadvantage against interrupts on casts (including snipe). We have some of the highest hurdles to the few casted abilities we have, and the least amount of tools to deal with them.

 

This was, and is, a required tool. And considering in your Merc answers you spoke about trying to give them more reprieves from interrupts, to directly nerf another class to be more susceptible to interrupts is insulting.

 

------

 

The Ability Argument

 

We have abilities that require cover or crouch. Despite what people might think, we have to use these abilities to be successful. or rather one of these abilities. You can tell, when they were designing to the class, that this was taken into account. We're squishy, but we still have some potent ranged abilities, we're still supposed to leverage those abilities to kill certain targets. We're especially supposed to do this as Dirty Fighting/Lethality. And without the immunities it grants, it severely hurts the spec's ability to do what it needs to do.

 

Dirty Fighting/Lethality was made to be the spec that fights in the in betweens, that uses it's odd ranges to confuse and dominate over it's prey with quick thinking and hardwork. And after 2.0 it had become one of the most fun, if not still troubled by some issues, specs in the game. To take away it's intended crouch immunities is to give it a massive blow in effectiveness and fun factor.

 

------

 

The "Two Years Have Passed" Argument

 

Nearly two years have passed since release, and about two years have passed since you took portable cover from us in beta (when you should have taken the benefits away if it was your intention). The fact that this has not been addressed among the many many nerfs we've eaten. The fact that this has not even been mentioned until now. The fact that there wasn't even a hint of it in our responses a few weeks back. All of this shows not only that BioWare lies that they "never intended for them to continue using cover after choosing to be an Operative/Scoundrel", that this change has likely been made in the weeks after they answered our questions. BioWare is not even changing Flyby/Orbital after talking about it in our questions (something we did not even ask about, I should note), but they are making the biggest single nerf they have made to any class in the game to our class now?

 

Bull.

 

And that is exactly what this is.

 

The Biggest Nerf a Class Has Ever Suffered in SWTOR.

 

This is changing a core mechanic to the class. A basic ability we have all come to rely on and use. In every warzone. In every fight. It is no different from taking leap away from JK/SW. Or project/shock and AOE KB from the JC/SI. Or the AOE KB away from Mercs/Mandos, the pull away from VGs/PTs. We may not use the advantages of cover in the same way a Slinger or Sniper does, but we use them just the same. And just like them, we use them constantly. There is no good reason to take it away from us, just as there is no good reason to take it away from them. We are both reliant on the tools our base class has given us, we just rely on them in different ways.

 

To rob us of them is to change the very core of what this class is.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Vorna

[Cryowolf]

^ Excellent post! Thank you for taking the time for that.

[Sir-Coffee]

The idea that the class was not designed with cover benefits in mind is ludicrous and insulting. To dismiss it at this point, after TWO years is a joke, and paints the person who wrote such a statement as not only clueless, but incompetent. This requires that this faulty claim must be disproved.

I completely agree with your post and I appreciate the time and effort it took you to write that up. Having said that, here is Scold's opinion which I do not agree with. He is currently the Operative Class Representative.

The crouch nerf barely affects concealment. It's a bigger nerf for healing (which is why I said it was justified).

 

If any concealment players are honestly really bothered about this change to crouch, more than the other lack of defensiveness outlined above, they're playing concealment wrong.

 

Don't worry your cute head, concealment defensiveness is my top priority. This crouch change will be negligible for concealment.

 

Here is the thread in which Scold(and his cheerleaders) attempt to dismiss the usefulness of Crouch/cover.

 

The good stuff starts on page 6.

[Theagg]

I completely agree with your post and I appreciate the time and effort it took you to write that up. Having said that, here is Scold's opinion which I do not agree with. He is currently the Operative Class Representative.

 

 

Here is the thread in which Scold(and his cheerleaders) attempt to dismiss the usefulness of Crouch/cover.

 

The good stuff starts on page 6.

 

Indeed, I think the problem is that some seem to assume that because we feel removing the defensive capabilities of Crouch/Cover for Scrappers is not the right thing to do, that we are therefore not that worried about other more pressing issues that are wrong with the class.

 

This is far from the truth, so whilst losing the defensive attributes of Cover might not be the most worrying thing for us, nonetheless it's removing a defensive ability that some of us rely on, from a wardrobe that is already rather empty and lacking in the first place.

 

Bioware shouldn't be removing anything from us (Scrappers) at this point, no matter how inconsequential it might seem.

[Anosa]

This needs to be addressed right away. We are already very vulnerable while out and about and now cover is useless?? I understand they want to fix some stuff but this is not the way to go. Meanwhile smash/sweep players still crit for 8k. and tank shadows/assassins who can get 700k dps in a pvp match are getting an increase in their defensive abilities!?

 

I think if anything they should just make cover give us the defensive bonus and be allowed to be leaped to.

Either way these notes better change quick.

[Sir-Coffee]

Indeed, I think the problem is that some seem to assume that because we feel removing the defensive capabilities of Crouch/Cover for Scrappers is not the right thing to do, that we are therefore not that worried about other more pressing issues that are wrong with the class.

 

This is far from the truth, so whilst losing the defensive attributes of Cover might not be the most worrying thing for us, nonetheless it's removing a defensive ability that some of us rely on, from a wardrobe that is already rather empty and lacking in the first place.

 

Bioware shouldn't be removing anything from us (Scrappers) at this point, no matter how inconsequential it might seem.

^ This.

 

/agree

Edited October 20, 2013 by SithEBM

[renegadeimp]

NONE of this is even on the test server yet and youre already starting the doomsday chants.

[Elyx]

yeah I didn't get this change either. they're discussion about the smuggler was that the healing spec was too OP due to "defensive abilities", and move them over to the other trees.

 

....but instead, they hurt the WHOLE class...I don't get it. do they think that sawbones is the only tree that uses cover? it makes no sense. perhaps they plan on buffing the DPS trees...but why not at the same time? why hurt the whole class, but do nothing positive? where are our energy buffs for scrapper? where are the defensive talents that you said you were going to migrate over?

 

guess helping the class isn't as important as nerfing it.

 

...and ironically, the gunslingers still get their defenses....the class that they said they needed to reduce their damage and utility on...

 

I don't understand Bio. why are you telling us one thing, then doing another? I think it would help to explain the logic in the blog. I would assume that the dev that did the blog is aware of the discussions around the 3 questions...our energy needs...

 

the buff to our quick shot is great, and much needed (scrapper could use an energy reduction on that too btw, its stil pretty expensive). I just don't get the cover change. I could honestly care less about cover, id prefer our defensive abilities to lie elsewhere...it just doesn't make any sense

[Elyx]

The idea that the class was not designed with cover benefits in mind is ludicrous and insulting. To dismiss it at this point, after TWO years is a joke, and paints the person who wrote such a statement as not only clueless, but incompetent. This requires that this faulty claim must be disproved.

 

Very well thought out post Vorna. And I agree that removing cover now is just silly...no matter what their excuse is, the benefits of cover have been know for years as you stated, so they shouldn't try to cover it up with "we didn't expect smugglers to use it". thats just silly.

 

I would like to point out a few things about your post however. first off, you forgot to add 2 things to the smugglers list of movement abilities:

 

for one, our roll. you may disagree, but at this point it's one of my more favorite movement abilities, on par with my juggernauts leap. although the energy cost is high, it is spammable...a decent tadeoff in my opinion.

 

second (arguably) is stealth. it's not an instant gap closer like leap is, but it is a movement ability, and a powerful one when used right. and Bio does consider this when they take into account classes movement.

 

Also, you added things to your "list" that are not equivalent abilities. force bubble is not comparative to leap, or our roll...it seems like you merely added items to your list to make smugglers look worse off.

 

Which brings me to my second point. though the specs do need some polish and work (im a fan of scrapper, and it needs some help for PvE), your overall post paints the smuggler/agent as a broken class that barely gets by only because were such amazing players. to tell you the truth, the class is not in a bad spot. all 3 specs are viable and can fill their respective roles (scrapper again needs some help and is behind a bit, but not by huge amounts). Dirty fighting in the hands of a seasoned player can challenge gunslingers and marauders on the damage parses. and sawbones is arguably the best healing spec in the game.

 

So I agree with you in the context that the change is simply unneeded...I just disagree with your method. you don't need to make smugglers look like yesterdays trash just to convince others that this change is silly....we all can see its silly. I just hope Bio can realize this too. and if they drop cover for us, some recompense needs to happen. adding a passive, as an example, that allows smugglers/Operatives to use cover abilities without cover is a good start.

[Cryowolf]

Hey Elyx, nice post by you, as well. We need all the well spoken Scrappers we can get.

 

I would like to point out a few things about your post however. first off, you forgot to add 2 things to the smugglers list of movement abilities:

 

for one, our roll.

 

second (arguably) is stealth.

 

Also, you added things to your "list" that are not equivalent abilities. force bubble is not comparative to leap, or our roll...it seems like you merely added items to your list to make smugglers look worse off.

 

It isn't an inclusive list of all movement abiliities. It's a list of specific moves that alters your position to your target, alters your target's position to your position, or blocks such moves from happening. Which is why, for example, Force Leap, Harpoon and Hold the Line are there. That's why it doesn't contain skills like Force Speed, Predation, or Scamper.

 

Which brings me to my second point. though the specs do need some polish and work (im a fan of scrapper, and it needs some help for PvE), your overall post paints the smuggler/agent as a broken class...

 

His post is centered on the PvP aspect, not PvE. I agree with you that the tone of his post is painted quite direly, but as someone who has been playing a Scrapper since launch and maining it for the majority of that time I would have to agree that our situation is quite dire indeed.

 

A rant that is not aimed at you follows. Don't want to double post.

 

We are recognizably (as per the swtor forums and in game communities) the worst PvP dps spec (perhaps tied for worst with Balance Shadows, depending on who you ask) in the game and have been like that for a while. In what feels like a last ditch effort to me anyway, we basically begged and pleaded for buffs in our Top 3 Questions and what will we receive in the hyped up "balance patch"? A tiny buff to QS which is an energy dump. Personally, I have never have extra energy to dump in PvP. It will actually help healing scoundrels more as they do have the extra energy to actually benefit from this buff (when they are already capable of dishing out some decent hurt when called for) and the removal of our strongest defensive tool from the entire AC in BW's attempt to reduce healing Scoundrel's "slipperiness". Call it collateral damage or however else folks want to explain it, it hurts the DPS specs who were already hurting.

 

We are on the bottom of a lake and getting pushed deeper in the mud and that feels undeservedly unfair.

[Thoop]

changes like this make me think the devs don't even play this game

[Elyx]

Here's my thoughts on what they SHOULD do.

 

Even if they drop cover, if they give us a passive that allows use of Sabo Chg outside of cover, that will allow for the extra DPS burst when needed. Someone else mentioned the use of Sabo while in stealth. not a bad idea, but could push the healing class over into OP territory even more then it is.

 

based on that, they could simply include the use of sabo under cover as a scrapper ability. put it high enough in the tree that only scrappers can get.

 

other skill ideas:

 

1) Switch Sedatives and Brawlers grit in the trees. extra endurance for healers isn't bad, and it isn't overkill either. scrapper could use the DR benefit from Sedatives. pop tranq as soon as you "flash" out invisible, before you do any other skill (like shoot first). They could also move Sedatives higher up in the scrapper tree to keep other full specs from getting it (like switching it with Stopping power)

 

2) Switch Scar Tissue with Black market mods. once ST is in the DF tree, switch it with Mortal Wound. this will make Mortal Wound more available to Scrappers (and a bit more consistent DPS). DF gets a bit more DR instead of alacrity (DF is mostly an instant spec anyways...)

 

that would be enough to reduce Healing specs defensive potential (in addition to the cover kill). Here's a few other ideas to get the discussion rolling:

 

perhaps change Sawed off? it really feels like a complete waste of a talent point. 4% boost on a mediocre ability on a medium CD and it's high in the scrapper tree? how about this, "increases damage dealt by Backblast by 4%, and in addition, back blast can be used with no positional requirements, and each use of Backblast reduces the CD of Pugnacity by 5 seconds.

 

That gives you some extra personal defensive potential (via the healing), and helps out with backblast because...well, how often in real game do you get to choose when your behind the opponent? This also opens up far more regular use of our top tier talent (which I honestly feel is wasted 3/4 of the time in PvE, can't tell you about PvP, but i suspect its the same). And it doesn't boost shoot first, which for some crazy reason they think is super powerful and needs all those horrid limitations. BB becomes a regular part of our rotation no matter what position you are, as does Fletchett round.

 

Note on energy: Not sure which direction to go with this. many peeps like the instant burst of 10 energy when flying fists procs. big downside I've noticed in PvE is that it doesn't aways proc when you need it. On the flip side, sawbones gets a regular and CONTROLLABLE energy return. Yes, it's based on crit, but your default spam (that costs no energy) crits often enough that in a short period of time, its immediate and regular.

 

So how about this? Increase the proc rate, but change it to an "energy over time". so we get more procs, but it's a bit slower. but you can stack 3x or something like that, so if your going good with the FF, you have a regular energy return.

 

another idea could be to add a CD reduction to Cool head. drop it by 40 seconds. simple and easy. 80 seconds between uses instead of 120.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Elyx