Thoughts on Riposte

[Kyromoo]

So it's been tossed around lately that Riposte isn't worth it, and that slash is, in fact, better, despite it being off the GCD.

 

I'm a little confused by this.

 

 

 

Couldn't you just use Riposte and have your skill usage be Strike rather than Slash, or a net usage of the same number of GCDs and only one focus lost for a better net damage? Also, Riposte can't miss, or be dodged, or be parried.

 

Did I miss something here?

[SunwindIon]

So it's been tossed around lately that Riposte isn't worth it, and that slash is, in fact, better, despite it being off the GCD.

 

I'm a little confused by this.

 

 

 

Couldn't you just use Riposte and have your skill usage be Strike rather than Slash, or a net usage of the same number of GCDs and only one focus lost for a better net damage? Also, Riposte can't miss, or be dodged, or be parried.

 

Did I miss something here?

 

you may be right.. but personally, with the sheer amount of abilities I already have to try and use during combat I can't be bothered paying attention to riposte when any damage increase is probably going to be so tiny to be unnoticable.

[Sapler]

I do use riposte, aswell as slash and strike and all of thoes then again im running Focus so i dont relay on any other striking abilitys as much as watchmen.

 

Tho i have though about ditching it since it does consume alot of focus starving you pretty fast, but i can be nice in dire situations, like a Elite or enemy player are bouth on low life and you can win if you can get a riposte of with no GCD.

 

Ofc this is all to each player how they want to play and who is the most intense when it comes to more and more perfect rotations on how to do the most dmg output, with or without.

 

My opinion is then again mixed.. I have played with it most of the time but i will try to remove it see if the outcome is better. I might post my experience once i feel i can stand for what i say.

[MBirkhofer]

you have more then enough things that burn focus.

riposte needs to be zero focus to be useful.

 

In WoW riposte is good because:

1. its free.

2. rogues have that +100% dodge skill, which makes riposte the only way to hit them.

3. Talented its also 100% crit.

[Venator-Falco]

At the moment I put it in the “could be better” category. If I have a bucket load of focus and it is up I hit it, if I am low I stay away.

The big issue with this is by the time you see it is up see your focus level and hit the button, you probably could have hit something more viable because the GCD has passed.

Because it is so situational it does make sense that it should either be cheaper or have better damage.

[oflow]

you have more then enough things that burn focus.

riposte needs to be zero focus to be useful.

 

In WoW riposte is good because:

1. its free.

2. rogues have that +100% dodge skill, which makes riposte the only way to hit them.

3. Talented its also 100% crit.

 

 

I was thinking the same thing. Riposte should be free.

Edited December 23, 2011 by oflow

[SunwindIon]

It should simply be removed, it serves no usefull purpose, as others have said by the time you think of pressing it there's something better that just got off cooldown that you could spend points on instead. I used it too at low levels because it was one of the only few attacking abilities I had so I used it whenever I could, but not at higher levels at all.

 

plus there are already too many skills, others should be combined into one or removed too.

Edited December 23, 2011 by SunwindIon

[Zaerion_H]

just one word , Useless.

[Rankith]

Riposte is only mostly useless. Being off the gcd it gives you an extra focus dump for more burst if you really need it. That said, its useless in anything but occasional use in leveling and very specific in pvp. You really can just forget about it and be pretty much 100% fine.

[RamzaBehoulve]

Riposte is completely useless as is.

[SunwindIon]

what do you guys think about combining riposte with pommel strike and opportune strike? there's absolutely no reason to have all 3 of these semi-useless abilities when they could be combined into one.

 

they really need to trim the fat with all the useless skills. why would anyone use Cyclone Slash for example when they could use Force Sweep? costs the same amount of focus, does more damage, will hit more enemies and has a small stun, I mean, Cyclone Slash looks cool and all, but it's useless.

 

Sprint is another pointless ability, it should just be an innate class trait that you get at the level you would get the ability, there's no reason for it to be an ability, it has an infinite duration until you die, costs no focus, nothing, what's the point? I want to remove it from my bars to make room, but when I die i'll need to use it again, just pointless. the amount of abilities and bloat is unbelievable, were the class designers high when they started work on the JK?

Edited December 23, 2011 by SunwindIon

[Ghingis]

It is worthwhile to have on your bars simply because people can not dodge it etc, so when they pop their CD's and you get it procced its definately worth all the costs.

 

I am also going to spend points into the talent that reduces my Rebuke CD whenever i hit with Riposte, which will make it even more worthwhile, since I will be running around with 20% damage reduction basically 100% of the time im fighting.

[OldxLady]

Yeah, it's quite useless.

Also dont foget that in PvP all players have 90-100% chance to hit (accuracy), so you wont actualy be able to use Ripost all the time to get any good from the skill that reduce the CD of Rebuke. Only actualy usefull time for it is when you pop Saber Ward.

 

They defenetly need to reudce the cost of it onr increase the damge for it to be worthy use

[EasymodeX]

HEY GUYS.

 

90% OF SENT/MARAS THINK THE CLASS SUCKS.

 

90% OF SENT/MARAS DON'T USE RIPOSTE/RETALIATION.

 

COINCIDENCE? I THINK NOT.

 

 

 

Spend 1 GCD on Vicious, for 900 damage at a cost of 2 rage ...

 

Spend 1 GCD on Assault + Retaliation, for 450 + 800 = 1250 damage at a cost of 1 rage ...

 

 

HMM. DO YOU WANT 450 DAMAGE PER RAGE, OR DO YOU WANT 1250 DAMAGE PER RAGE?

 

OH SNAP.

[RamzaBehoulve]

Riposte still sucks.

 

And I don't have any problem with my Sentinel, kthxbye~

[MBirkhofer]

HEY GUYS.

 

90% OF SENT/MARAS THINK THE CLASS SUCKS.

 

90% OF SENT/MARAS DON'T USE RIPOSTE/RETALIATION.

 

COINCIDENCE? I THINK NOT.

 

 

 

Spend 1 GCD on Vicious, for 900 damage at a cost of 2 rage ...

 

Spend 1 GCD on Assault + Retaliation, for 450 + 800 = 1250 damage at a cost of 1 rage ...

 

 

HMM. DO YOU WANT 450 DAMAGE PER RAGE, OR DO YOU WANT 1250 DAMAGE PER RAGE?

 

OH SNAP.

My slash has a 15% crit rate, and 6% damage buff.

Combat has blade rush.

[EasymodeX]

Somehow I don't think the 15% crit and 6% damage is going to make up for Strike + Riposte having more than 200% of the efficiency of Slash.

 

...

...

...

Edited December 23, 2011 by EasymodeX

[RamzaBehoulve]

And 3 pts in Watchman makes it so Slash or its replacement refunds 1 Focus when used.

 

Besides I don't know why yours cost only 1 focus, but my Riposte costs 3 focus, the exact same as Slash, so 200% efficiency, I think not.

Edited December 23, 2011 by RamzaBehoulve

[EasymodeX]

I'm sure you have a purpose to your post, which you will elucidate in a response, sometime.

 

Maybe?

[MBirkhofer]

And 3 pts in Watchman makes it so Slash or its replacement refunds 1 Focus when used.

 

Besides I don't know why yours cost only 1 focus, but my Riposte costs 3 focus, the exact same as Slash, so 200% efficiency, I think not.

 

he said:

Spend 1 GCD on Vicious, for 900 damage at a cost of 2 rage ...

 

Spend 1 GCD on Assault + Retaliation, for 450 + 800 = 1250 damage at a cost of 1 rage ...

 

 

Translated:

1 gcd for slash, for 900 damage at a cost of 3 focus, +1=2.

1 gcd on strike+riposte, for 450+800=1250 damage, +2 focus, -3 focus=1 focus.

[Maefly]

Riposte is a marginal leveling ability and will probably never be used in a operation.

 

From a pure theory standpoint a Riposte + Strike costs 1 GCD and 1 focus (cost 3, builds 2) and will do Riposte + Strike damage for that 1 focus. From a damage / focus / GCD perspective this is probably the most efficient but you have to consider a few things:

 

 

1) You have to make a successful defense. My defense chance has stayed at 5% since I started and without adding defense gear (bad idea) it won't change. So, every 1 / 20 times a mob attacks you, you'll have this ability light up.

 

2) You have to have 3 focus sitting around doing nothing. Now as combat, not the worst thing in the world. Of course if you're combat and you are pooling focus, a zen 2 point blade rush or slash will be more efficient. As watchman, pooled focus is lost dps.

 

3) You would have to be paying close attention assuming the other two items actually happen. If this is the case, you are either a savant or sitting there waiting on abilities to light up. The former means you'll be an amazing player the latter means you'll not.

[EasymodeX]

Third option: always roll your finger over Riposte-Slash-Strike whenever you press Slash.

 

They take the same Focus to activate. If Riposte is available, you will use Riposte+Strike.

 

If it is not, you will use Slash.

 

Protip: You always pool bits of Focus in Watchman, unless you really like delaying your Overcharge Saber by a GCD.

 

Also, don't forget that many, many attacks in this game are multi-part, and have multiple defense checks for individual pieces of damage.

 

 

Edit: Also, pooling focus has almost no negative impact to DPS if you float at a specific level in general. You simply treat 3 focus as "0" focus. The only net damage to DPS is as the beginning of the fight when you "start" at an effective -3 focus. Bad theorycraft is bad.

Edited December 23, 2011 by EasymodeX

[SunwindIon]

Third option: always roll your finger over Riposte-Slash-Strike whenever you press Slash.

 

reading this made me realise how useful the ability to make macros would be. you could just have riposte before a bunch of other abilities in macros.

[shoveljon]

reading this made me realise how useful the ability to make macros would be. you could just have riposte before a bunch of other abilities in macros.

 

Runestrike whaaaaat?

 

The reason Riposte in general gets left behind is because it *just* does damage. Talented Slash does comparable damage, although those of you with the maths inclination rightfully point out that it probably doesn't do quite as much as a riposte. However, slash does other things in some builds. In watchman, for example, it helps reset cauterize. We loves our cauterize.

 

Of course, at endgame we should have a tank taking the shots to the face for us, which means this discussion becomes academic for operations/larger flashpoints etc because (theoretically) we won't trigger riposte often. Of course will all the adds and such this isn't exactly true, but if we're talking theoretical situations, ideally we just want to stick to a big bad's butt and keep those burns ticking away, both for damage/focus/selfheals and for raid utility with zen.

 

Anyway. The REAL rason riposte is useless is because the animation is baed. It's bad bad baeeeeed.

[EasymodeX]

The 'real' reason Riposte isn't used is because the hotbar/ability UI coding is a pile of **** and it doesn't activate half the time you try to use it, making it a lot of effort.