Kaggath Tournament - Alliance of Worlds vs Krayt's Vision

[tunewalker]

Question, Beni, this Rebel Sector Force we're dealing with, is it one of the better equipped ones, or the average Sector Force?

 

it better be one of the better equipped one and one of the better soldier wise ones those guys that scrubbed out of Spec force training essentially I don't think he limited my troops to limit my equipment i think he only did it to bring the numbers down.

[Beniboybling]

Question, Beni, this Rebel Sector Force we're dealing with, is it one of the better equipped ones, or the average Sector Force?

Erm, the difference? Maybe half and half? Or whatever the previous ratio was? Edited October 14, 2013 by Beniboybling

[tunewalker]

Average I guess, seems only fair.

 

beni you don't know what you are saying the Average sector force means they have like no vehicles at all. They all have blasters you are pretty much taking away all of my vehicles.

 

 

How about this.... just give me a good one so we can actually have a ground debate and I don't have to argue how a bunch of guys with hunting rifles and pitch forks is going to take down an AT-AT......

 

 

Or also how about this we don't focus on that and I can bring what ever to the table as far as equipment and such goes.... how about that.

 

 

 

Edit: come on just give me the best i can have I am fighting the 501st here i have been hit hard enough with the nerf bat haven't I?

Edited October 14, 2013 by tunewalker

[Aurbere]

Erm, the difference? Maybe half and half? Or whatever the previous ratio was?

 

Equipment and vehicles. The better ones were outfitted with the best equipment and vehicles the rebels could get, whereas the average Sector Force was not.

[Beniboybling]

beni you don't know what you are saying the Average sector force means they have like no vehicles at all. They all have blasters you are pretty much taking away all of my vehicles.

 

 

How about this.... just give me a good one so we can actually have a ground debate and I don't have to argue how a bunch of guys with hunting rifles and pitch forks is going to take down an AT-AT......

 

 

Or also how about this we don't focus on that and I can bring what ever to the table as far as equipment and such goes.... how about that.

Lol stop jumping the gun before my edits.

 

I've decided to go with whatever the prievous ratio was - I'd assume that's something like 30% advanced and 70% average or something. Seems only fair that is accurately reflects the make up of your force.

[Beniboybling]

Equipment and vehicles. The better ones were outfitted with the best equipment and vehicles the rebels could get, whereas the average Sector Force was not.

Well I'm not going to put any limits on vehicles, but some will have better weapons than others.

[tunewalker]

Equipment and vehicles. The better ones were outfitted with the best equipment and vehicles the rebels could get, whereas the average Sector Force was not.

 

pretty much the average did not have a lot of equipment and had either the standard blaster rifles (which were the A280's thankfully) or they had high powered hunting rifles and that was about it. Not to mention some of the worse ones didn't get support at all because the alliance couldn't afford it and they weren't sending supplies to people that could be corrupt.... so ya they had normally dissolved.

[tunewalker]

Lol stop jumping the gun before my edits.

 

I've decided to go with whatever the prievous ratio was - I'd assume that's something like 30% advanced and 70% average or something. Seems only fair that is accurately reflects the make up of your force.

 

Im quick what can i say........ ok so being prepared to argue with these forces..... its going to be much harder then i had hoped...... but still might be able to.......can i please just a well equipped rebel group I really don't want to have to argue how 100 of my guys will do with just High powered hunting rifles when I can Mass produce more then my army can hold with my planets right now..... Or is that going to end up being my one thing to help me bring the troops back up to a respectable level, i mean I was never prepared to handle debates where i didn't have this huge numbers advantage and if i was curtailed i always figured i would get decent troops (well i guess you said average so we aren't talking the bottom of the barrel ones which would suck).

 

 

hell..... i could train people from my planets in 1 day better then some of the lower grade of rebel troops....

 

 

Ok i think i am just going to argue like my rebel troops are good, cus they still should be and go from there i have vehicle building factories on Rendili along with blaster building factories on both Hapes and Rendili and a black market that sells weapons on Brentaal and all the minerals i would ever need to make this stuff on Arkania so i can just produce what i don't have the lesser members of my troops can be trained at Carida along side the new recruits so I can fix all this.

Edited October 14, 2013 by tunewalker

[Aurbere]

Well I'm not going to put any limits on vehicles, but some will have better weapons than others.

 

That's fair.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Im quick what can i say........ ok so being prepared to argue with these forces..... its going to be much harder then i had hoped...... but still might be able to.......can i please just a well equipped rebel group I really don't want to have to argue how 100 of my guys will do with just High powered hunting rifles when I can Mass produce more then my army can hold with my planets right now..... Or is that going to end up being my one thing to help me bring the troops back up to a respectable level, i mean I was never prepared to handle debates where i didn't have this huge numbers advantage and if i was curtailed i always figured i would get decent troops (well i guess you said average so we aren't talking the bottom of the barrel ones which would suck).

 

 

hell..... i could train people from my planets in 1 day better then some of the lower grade of rebel troops....

 

Rebel group meaning what? Regulars? Specforce? If the latter I can give a list of what equipment and weapons they could possible have.

[tunewalker]

Rebel group meaning what? Regulars? Specforce? If the latter I can give a list of what equipment and weapons they could possible have.

 

regulars the spec forces are fine and are still special forces member the Regulars are going to be having a rough time of it even though they outnumber the 501st by more then 3:1 if they don't have the right equipment.

Edited October 14, 2013 by tunewalker

[Wolfninjajedi]

regulars

 

Ah k.

[tunewalker]

Honestly with out any more droids built on my enemies side and with out any more trained troops on my side i think i still have the advantage thanks to the special forces guys, barely an advantage but an advantage none the less..... ok i keep having poor knee jerk reactions i think i am about ready.

 

 

because I think 10 Special forces in a straight fight are a match for 9k 501st so being backed up by the 36 thousand Standard troops can easily push me well over the edge in terms of a pure fight if need be. I still have around 3-5k people who specialize in infiltration and anti-intiligence and anti-infiltration so i should still be ok in that regards and i still have around 1200 special forces that specialize in space combat and can still be used in conjunction with some of the infiltration units and standard ground troops to take enemy ships so overall nothing really changing.... just my troops will have to try harder..... and Luke, Leia and IG-88 just might be entering the actual battle in some areas.

Edited October 14, 2013 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

Im quick what can i say........ ok so being prepared to argue with these forces..... its going to be much harder then i had hoped...... but still might be able to.......can i please just a well equipped rebel group I really don't want to have to argue how 100 of my guys will do with just High powered hunting rifles when I can Mass produce more then my army can hold with my planets right now..... Or is that going to end up being my one thing to help me bring the troops back up to a respectable level, i mean I was never prepared to handle debates where i didn't have this huge numbers advantage and if i was curtailed i always figured i would get decent troops (well i guess you said average so we aren't talking the bottom of the barrel ones which would suck).

 

 

hell..... i could train people from my planets in 1 day better then some of the lower grade of rebel troops....

 

 

Ok i think i am just going to argue like my rebel troops are good, cus they still should be and go from there i have vehicle building factories on Rendili along with blaster building factories on both Hapes and Rendili and a black market that sells weapons on Brentaal and all the minerals i would ever need to make this stuff on Arkania so i can just produce what i don't have the lesser members of my troops can be trained at Carida along side the new recruits so I can fix all this.

Fine, fine.

[tunewalker]

Fine, fine.

 

ignore my rants I am just going to argue them like I normally would and see how it goes from there like I said I am having Knee jerk reactions... BIG knee jerk reactions to having such a drastic drop in number of troops. because if you cant tell down to 10% of my special forces 2.5% of my specops and .15% of my original ground troops I think that would make any one freak.

 

 

Edit: still post at #415 with some adjusted numbers I think will still work and still be an ultimate outcome with Some spec Ops and Spec forces that infiltrated the enemy feeding the information that pulls them into a trap at Brentaal because Pellaeon has fallen for it in the Thrawn trilogy and Isard was tricked by it during the Bacta Wars. One of them was specifically by Wedge the other was just by rebel troops and trusting Imperial intillegence (what Isard is doing).

 

 

Will figure out more scenario's after food just as long I don't see something that makes me freak more lol.

Edited October 14, 2013 by tunewalker

[Aurbere]

Tune, the Thrawn Trilogy was way before Gilad came into his own. It's not proper evidence.

[LadyKulvax]

Now taking a look at the current ground forces I think I can definitely win a conventional ground battle, a grand total of maybe 50,000 troops, Special Forces and SpecOps spread across five planets.

 

That is ten thousand per planet, I have 10,000 501st Legion Stormtroopers and multiple squads of varied Elite Commando Units totalling in 1,000, these are supported by ever growing numbers of Krath War Droids and XR-85 Tanks which carry a Heavy Particle Cannon.

 

I could simply go from planet to planet, using the main legion as an invasion force to distract the majority of Rebel forces whilst Elite Commandos such as the Storm Commandos which excel at infiltration with specialised reflec armor which effectively hide them from sensors and light, as well as sound dampening generators built into their suits as well as Evasive-226-R disruptors which allow them to pass through shields undetected which should allow them to take on the Shield Generators which should be even easier with long-range rocket rifles.

 

To make this even more effective I could use other Elite Commando units to attack the generators from defend-able positions, drawing out even more Rebel Special Forces, etc.... such heavy distractions besides the main battle will make it much easier for my Storm Commandos to infiltrate to the Shield Generators and destroy them by whichever means are required and that allows me to pull out my forces avoiding larger casualties if I attempted to take the planet and instead BDZ the entire planet, this process could be repeated.

 

I still believe as Aurbere believes that Supreme Commander Gilad Pallaeon is better than Wedge but not be a large margin, this combined with what is effectively an extra fleet should allow me to win most of the space battles and as I have just demonstrated that allows me to neutralise your greater Ground Forces numbers from Orbit.

 

What I can effectively do is use the extra fleet to outnumber you above one planet, cause enough damage to your fleet so as to secure a victory and then immediately send that extra fleet to another one of your planets and repeat this process.

 

Notice however I didn't even need the virus at all in that scenario, if I do use the virus and considering your new numbers in your ground forces, it would have a much heavier effect on your forces than before, making the distraction by the 501st all the easier, note: distraction, I don't have to press you in a ground battle because I don't need to win it, I merely need to pull your forces out and hold them in an engagement, with the virus having caused casualties to your forces this effectively makes the 501st legion's job almost easy.

 

Now here is something about the space battles I have not yet revealed but here it goes:

 

My infiltrator droids which are noticeably small can smuggle themselves onto your ships before any naval battles and even during, this effectively means that I can use these specialised probe droids to either merely cripple your ships by hacking them or better yet even take them over it would be difficult to both find and dispose of this main droid because it can launch several mini droids to spread throughout the ships, hacking numerous sections at once and then I can have them under control without your crew realising it and then fire at your own ships once mine drop out and begin the battle, taking your own forces by surprise by shooting them in the middle of the formation, opening up holes my navy can use to puncture through your own lines, the chaos should make the space engagements all the more easier.

Edited October 14, 2013 by LadyKulvax

[Beniboybling]

I think that plan of attack is offset somewhat by the following:

 

1. Leia's battle meditation, Leia learnt how to use battle meditation from books recovered from Ossus, the Great Jedi Library which in its prime belonged to the era of Nomi Sunrider, Arca Jeth and Odan-Urr - all capable of applying battle meditation to the theater of war. Leia therefore likely knows how to do this, and is powerful enough in the Force to do it. This obviously is going to turn the tide of any war she is present in, and could tip the scales in the Alliance's favour.

 

2. The Alliance isn't just going to sit around and let the enemy systematically conquer their territories. With the Colonies and Inner Rim out of immediate reach, and Hapes protected by a nebulae their is no need to have their forces spread out across all of their planets. Instead they'll likely move outer garrisons to reinforce the Core Worlds i.e. Brentaal and Rendilli (though Rendilli doesn't need much in the way of ground forces as its primary asset is in space.) And the same of course applies to the fleets. Whatsmore if you choose to attack all 5 at once you spread yourself thin and limit the chances of success. Your attacks on the Core Worlds could fail but your other succeed, but it wouldn't matter because reinforcements would arrive and wipe out your forces before you can take the planet.

 

3. While the Krytos Virus is keeping Rebel Troops occupied (though not fleets it should be noted) the KV will be occupied dealing with an arguably more dangerous threat in the form of Rebel SpecForces and SpecOps wreaking havoc amongst their planets. Urban Combat Specialists and Infiltrators will be sabotaging factories (those producing war droids and probe droids) and blowing up shipyards and SpecOps forces will be enticing rebellions and causing general disruption when opportunities present themselves. If you don't deploy ground forces to deal with these problems, they will fester, which in turn will distract the KV from the war itself.

 

That's quite a lot of support for Tune, but I think its good that you deal with a fresh face and perspective

[tunewalker]

Now taking a look at the current ground forces I think I can definitely win a conventional ground battle, a grand total of maybe 50,000 troops, Special Forces and SpecOps spread across five planets.

 

That is ten thousand per planet, I have 10,000 501st Legion Stormtroopers and multiple squads of varied Elite Commando Units totalling in 1,000, these are supported by ever growing numbers of Krath War Droids and XR-85 Tanks which carry a Heavy Particle Cannon.

 

I could simply go from planet to planet, using the main legion as an invasion force to distract the majority of Rebel forces whilst Elite Commandos such as the Storm Commandos which excel at infiltration with specialised reflec armor which effectively hide them from sensors and light, as well as sound dampening generators built into their suits as well as Evasive-226-R disruptors which allow them to pass through shields undetected which should allow them to take on the Shield Generators which should be even easier with long-range rocket rifles.

 

To make this even more effective I could use other Elite Commando units to attack the generators from defend-able positions, drawing out even more Rebel Special Forces, etc.... such heavy distractions besides the main battle will make it much easier for my Storm Commandos to infiltrate to the Shield Generators and destroy them by whichever means are required and that allows me to pull out my forces avoiding larger casualties if I attempted to take the planet and instead BDZ the entire planet, this process could be repeated.

 

I still believe as Aurbere believes that Supreme Commander Gilad Pallaeon is better than Wedge but not be a large margin, this combined with what is effectively an extra fleet should allow me to win most of the space battles and as I have just demonstrated that allows me to neutralise your greater Ground Forces numbers from Orbit.

 

What I can effectively do is use the extra fleet to outnumber you above one planet, cause enough damage to your fleet so as to secure a victory and then immediately send that extra fleet to another one of your planets and repeat this process.

 

Notice however I didn't even need the virus at all in that scenario, if I do use the virus and considering your new numbers in your ground forces, it would have a much heavier effect on your forces than before, making the distraction by the 501st all the easier, note: distraction, I don't have to press you in a ground battle because I don't need to win it, I merely need to pull your forces out and hold them in an engagement, with the virus having caused casualties to your forces this effectively makes the 501st legion's job almost easy.

 

Now here is something about the space battles I have not yet revealed but here it goes:

 

My infiltrator droids which are noticeably small can smuggle themselves onto your ships before any naval battles and even during, this effectively means that I can use these specialised probe droids to either merely cripple your ships by hacking them or better yet even take them over it would be difficult to both find and dispose of this main droid because it can launch several mini droids to spread throughout the ships, hacking numerous sections at once and then I can have them under control without your crew realising it and then fire at your own ships once mine drop out and begin the battle, taking your own forces by surprise by shooting them in the middle of the formation, opening up holes my navy can use to puncture through your own lines, the chaos should make the space engagements all the more easier.

 

This is all well and good but the Rebels are not an offensive charge ahead bunch when on the defensive the exact opposite so the rebels aren't being drawn out. Their standard tactic has always ,and in this case as well, been solely objective based assaults and defenses. They don't care where you land on the planet they just care about stopping any kinds of units getting to the base.

 

I have Spec force Marines and likely around 1200 of them. As I have said before a platoon of them landing on one of your ships is likely all I need to take it and the other half can be aboard my ships and they will notice the probe droids (mind I don't think you have more then 2 or 3 of these to start and by the time you do what you are talking about I wouldn't suspect more then 10 of these things running around). Also I do not believe they are going to be as effective as the Rebels will be at stealing your ships. The Rebel Alliance lived on stolen ships for the most part, the empire did not so while it may affect a couple it will not affect as many as the rebels will.

 

You still only have 1000 special forces units and I still have 8,800 ground based ones ready to stop you.I don't actually need units on any other planets other then Brentaal and Rendili to start out with since the blockades should prevent you from taking the only routes to the rest of my planets.

 

Also if you put your full ground force on the ground then That ensure the special forces Marines can and will steal your ships in the process turning your numbers advantage in the air into a complete disadvantage. If you don't then the 15,000 Rebel troops on each of those planets can and likely will hold off your troops with the help of the 3000 Special forces acting as counter-intelligence near the generators.

 

The rest of the planets besides Rendili and Brentaal can get by with just a company of special forces members and a couple a 1500 regulars because it will be hard to get troops to them to begin with. (that's around 750 total spec forces total for those 3 planets leaving me with nearly 2k left for invasion of your planets along with 500 Spec ops members acting as Counter-counter-intelligence allowing the 2k to carry out their missions while creating chaos and creating ripples and uncovering plots and such that they do at the same time.)

 

Further more while you are building droids I am training men and I believe I can build guns faster then you can build droids and I have a large enough populace to recruit from that I could easily replace my troops and have them back in double the force in 5 days. With the fewer numbers it is now more affordable for the cure and also more affordable to keep them fed with clean food. Remember just discovering one of these droids means I will know about this and take extra measures, or I could discover any number of these plots thanks to the infiltrators on your planets meaning you might get 1 of my less defended generators but I don't you will be able to manage more then that before heavy losses take their toll.

 

 

I think even if Pallaeon is a better Tactician Leia's Battle Meditation can turn the tide to be in Wedges favor. Also Wedge knows how to handle droids piloting ships in one engagement he realized droids were in control of ships and tricked them into believing he was an ally and got them to stop shooting at him entirely. He could do the same thing again. I think that's all for now on that subject though I may go into more detail later...... don't know if I missed anything.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Speaking of droids here, what of IG-88? What's going on with him? Edited October 14, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

Speaking of droids here, what of IG-88? What's going on with him?

 

I have not figured out exactly what I am doing with him yet.... he may just be sent to assassinate Pellaeon or Isard or BOTH.....Or he could be used to assist the Rebel spec forces to reprogram the droid factories so that all the new droids produced help me rather then blowing them up this is something far better as it wont be detected till there are more droids in my enemies faction that belong to me then there is that belong to my enemy better for him to do and considering his personality this is the most likely thing that he will try to do. Also in doing that it means while he is in there he can discover their earlier programming and then possibly know their plans as isard admittedly has problems slicing and needs people to help with that kind of work.

 

Edit: Endgame I believe I intend to use him along with Luke and Leia to take on Krayt and Talon while their forces are kept busy by my ground forces and space forces as a possibility.

Edited October 14, 2013 by tunewalker

[tunewalker]

I think that plan of attack is offset somewhat by the following:

 

1. Leia's battle meditation, Leia learnt how to use battle meditation from books recovered from Ossus, the Great Jedi Library which in its prime belonged to the era of Nomi Sunrider, Arca Jeth and Odan-Urr - all capable of applying battle meditation to the theater of war. Leia therefore likely knows how to do this, and is powerful enough in the Force to do it. This obviously is going to turn the tide of any war she is present in, and could tip the scales in the Alliance's favour.

 

2. The Alliance isn't just going to sit around and let the enemy systematically conquer their territories. With the Colonies and Inner Rim out of immediate reach, and Hapes protected by a nebulae their is no need to have their forces spread out across all of their planets. Instead they'll likely move outer garrisons to reinforce the Core Worlds i.e. Brentaal and Rendilli (though Rendilli doesn't need much in the way of ground forces as its primary asset is in space.) And the same of course applies to the fleets. Whatsmore if you choose to attack all 5 at once you spread yourself thin and limit the chances of success. Your attacks on the Core Worlds could fail but your other succeed, but it wouldn't matter because reinforcements would arrive and wipe out your forces before you can take the planet.

 

3. While the Krytos Virus is keeping Rebel Troops occupied (though not fleets it should be noted) the KV will be occupied dealing with an arguably more dangerous threat in the form of Rebel SpecForces and SpecOps wreaking havoc amongst their planets. Urban Combat Specialists and Infiltrators will be sabotaging factories (those producing war droids and probe droids) and blowing up shipyards and SpecOps forces will be enticing rebellions and causing general disruption when opportunities present themselves. If you don't deploy ground forces to deal with these problems, they will fester, which in turn will distract the KV from the war itself.

 

That's quite a lot of support for Tune, but I think its good that you deal with a fresh face and perspective

 

Going to say thank you beni for helping out after the nerf I feel I could use it because now I cant just use numbers I do in fact have to rely on skills of my troops and my commanders to win the day so thank you for this. Even though I think I said almost all of this stuff like imidiately afterwards lol.

Edited October 14, 2013 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

OK, I feel I should point out some flaws in Tune's arguments as well, then I've leave it to the floor:

 

1. Your making the assumption here that the Alliance can simply board the enemy ships unhindered. However this is not the case. Your going to have to deploy vulnerably boarding craft that can be shot down/avoided etc. Whereas the KV has all kinds of little nasties that can not only hack your ships, but simply take them over by force. Miniature assassin droids, heavily armed probe droids, mine laying, laser cannon wielding stealth droids etc. that can crawl into the Alliance's ships and shut them down. This poses a problem.

 

2. If the Krytos Virus is released successfully several Alliance troops will have to be reallocated to provide emergency assistance, these people aren't going to heal themselves. They need to be transported to hospitals, quarantined, medicine needs to be distributed etc. such a massive crisis will demand the attention of the military. And its possible the virus might spread through the Alliance's own troops - but I've leave Rayla to explore that possibility.

 

3. I doubt you'll be able to recruit and train an effective military force in a short time span - they certainly won't be as skilled as those they are replacing, remembering that they will be going up against the 501st, the Imperial Elite. Droids on the other hand can be manufactured to exacting standards fairly quickly, I'd take a guess at 50 a day.

[Beniboybling]

Speaking of droids here, what of IG-88? What's going on with him?

Indeed, I think in general how Leadership outside of tacticians should be factored into this. IG-88 and Darth Talon especially.

 

Assassins always have important roles in any Kaggath.

[tunewalker]

OK, I feel I should point out some flaws in Tune's arguments as well, then I've leave it to the floor:

 

1. Your making the assumption here that the Alliance can simply board the enemy ships unhindered. However this is not the case. Your going to have to deploy vulnerably boarding craft that can be shot down/avoided etc. Whereas the KV has all kinds of little nasties that can not only hack your ships, but simply take them over by force. Miniature assassin droids, heavily armed probe droids, mine laying, laser cannon wielding stealth droids etc. that can crawl into the Alliance's ships and shut them down. This poses a problem.

 

2. If the Krytos Virus is released successfully several Alliance troops will have to be reallocated to provide emergency assistance, these people aren't going to heal themselves. They need to be transported to hospitals, quarantined, medicine needs to be distributed etc. such a massive crisis will demand the attention of the military. And its possible the virus might spread through the Alliance's own troops - but I've leave Rayla to explore that possibility.

 

3. I doubt you'll be able to recruit and train an effective military force in a short time span - they certainly won't be as skilled as those they are replacing, remembering that they will be going up against the 501st, the Imperial Elite. Droids on the other hand can be manufactured to exacting standards fairly quickly, I'd take a guess at 50 a day.

 

1. I made no such assumtions I am sending 600 and keeping 600 on my own ships. If half of them get blown out of the sky that's 300 that board and that's the ability to take over 6 of my enemy ships. I likely have more fighters then my enemies since I know I have a few carriers and my opponent does not allowing them to run cover so I could likely get more then half. The other 600 are more then enough to stop and shut down any droids that could get aboard as their training was extremely vast in just that regard.

 

2. My planets are 90% human an epidemic on the scale you that is being talked about is extremely small 10% of a population getting sick is something the planets people are more then capable of tacking care of themselves with out the militaries help.

 

3. It would take me 5 days to train a few hundred thousand troops while they will not be of the same standard they are vastly more, if I want to take more time those same troops can be of the proper standard as a standard troop in 2 weeks time. The rebels know how to get the proper training in fast. What I am trying to say is with my population and a training ground like Carida it is faster to train troops then it is to build droids with only a couple factories.

Edited October 14, 2013 by tunewalker