BC world pvp vid!

[NvrShoutNvr]

Even though I have absolutely no idea who you are.

 

According to Baby Dey, I wasn't a notable on an RP server, so I'm not surprised.

[SnowmanSD]

Using one very broken exploit means you are willing to use all the exploits imo, Double SA isnt a huge deal, but I know on the bastion PvP guilds made gentleman's agreements not to use them. I know I did not use them, along with anyone I q'ed up in ranked used them either. Its a pathetic attempt and showed how insecure with your own talent using the absorb relic when it was bugged.

 

ok... well this isnt the bastion. and like I said I know alot of people from alot of guilds who used them. some people used them just to counter other people they encountered that used them. we made no gentleman's agreement on BC. But to generalize a guild because a couple people used broken relics for a week isnt fair. saying that infamous uses anything to win because a couple guys used them on a couple games against u doesnt mean a damn thing. at least to me it doesnt. but thats just my opinion. all im asking is for people not to make generalizations against guilds.

Edited October 21, 2013 by SnowmanSD

[xContex]

So.. I really tried to stay away from this thread since it is full of bad but wow. How stupid can people be? Double Power relic stacking isn't a huge deal but absorb relic glitching is? They are both equally bad. 6 seconds of invincibility every 20 seconds is on average a consistent 30% damage reduction at all times. Double proc'ing SA relics is an additional 450-500 power every 20 seconds for 6 seconds. When 2.0 dropped and it was BiS to have partisan + conqueror I was critting people on smash for 10-12k. When they removed that it dropped to 8-10k. That in itself is a 25-30% increase in damage. So you tell me what is worse? More common sense leads to less stupid arguments! Its a wonderful thing

 

/l2math.

Edited October 21, 2013 by xContex

[RancidGuy]

So.. I really tried to stay away from this thread since it is full of bad but wow. How stupid can people be? Double Power relic stacking isn't a huge deal but absorb relic glitching is? They are both equally bad. 6 seconds of invincibility every 20 seconds is on average a consistent 30% damage reduction at all times. Double proc'ing SA relics is an additional 450-500 power every 20 seconds for 6 seconds. When 2.0 dropped and it was BiS to have partisan + conqueror I was critting people on smash for 10-12k. When they removed that it dropped to 8-10k. That in itself is a 25-30% increase in damage. So you tell me what is worse? More common sense leads to less stupid arguments! Its a wonderful thing

 

/l2math.

 

25%-30% more damage can be healed through, not taking damage for 6 secs cant be damaged through, see the difference? called common sense, use it Also critting a fully geared healer or DPS through a guard isn't going to be anywhere near 10-12k sorry #Doyouevenplayanymore?

 

ok... well this isnt the bastion. and like I said I know alot of people from alot of guilds who used them. some people used them just to counter other people they encountered that used them. we made no gentleman's agreement on BC. But to generalize a guild because a couple people used broken relics for a week isnt fair. saying that infamous uses anything to win because a couple guys used them on a couple games against u doesnt mean a damn thing. at least to me it doesnt. but thats just my opinion. all im asking is for people not to make generalizations against guilds.

 

Of course Infamous didn't make a gentleman's agreement, because you guys want to do whatever it takes to win. Your guild hates me so I could really careless about your opinion, Infamous lost all respect of playing an actual well fought and fun game, GG

Edited October 21, 2013 by RancidGuy

[ZooMzy]

So.. I really tried to stay away from this thread since it is full of bad but wow. How stupid can people be? Double Power relic stacking isn't a huge deal but absorb relic glitching is? They are both equally bad. 6 seconds of invincibility every 20 seconds is on average a consistent 30% damage reduction at all times. Double proc'ing SA relics is an additional 450-500 power every 20 seconds for 6 seconds. When 2.0 dropped and it was BiS to have partisan + conqueror I was critting people on smash for 10-12k. When they removed that it dropped to 8-10k. That in itself is a 25-30% increase in damage. So you tell me what is worse? More common sense leads to less stupid arguments! Its a wonderful thing

 

/l2math.

 

Even more so of a glitch now, considering Oboran = Dread Forged relics in stats. Both give 625 power, meaning you have one of them that is 78 grade stats that is double proccing with a Conq. relic.

 

Six seconds of immunity is just more concrete, where people whine because defense bugs force you to change up your own method of play in light of another's. Offensive bugs like the double SA allow people to go "oh, he hits harder? Meh, I can still do my rotation and stuff even though I'm losing more health/dying more frequently, so it's not that big of a deal"

 

Both are equally bad, but one forces you to change your tactics. And people can't be bothered to change their tactics, hence the QQ that was so prevelant and shadowing of the double SA bug.

[colmiak]

so apparently infamous exploits... ! time for a novel?

 

i use the double sa proc, like most did the last time it was around. meh /boohoo

i'll switch back when they fix it or if everybody else decides on a "gentleman's agreement"

 

far as the shield relic goes, we had a few that used it for laughs. i assure you mr. rancidbutthurtguy, if four of our best queued up vs any team that you are in... well the bugged shield relic would not be needed, tbh...

 

we do "exploit". we always exploit the weakest link(s) in any particular team. some players here suggesting we exploit in other ways seem to not enjoy constantly being the center of our (admittedly brief) attention. i think the longest it took to kill some bad pt with a big mouth was when we all decided to be douches (though we were just returning the favor, tbh... ) and let our healer shoot him down.

 

+1 ursh is a bad*ss healer, even without guard. carries us baddies through a good amount of our arenas (thasna does too<3).

 

p.s. can't wait til mrbigmouth opens it up on bastion forums. if we eat him up like bad(ew..?) birthday cake... imagine what the "real" pvpers will do to him

 

p.s.s. constantly talking sh*t on forums to people who never directed anything at you to begin with shows how insecure you are. just sit back quietly, find someone to carry you and hope the other team doesn't know how easy you are to kill.

 

TBH

 

and i don't think anyone in infamous cares about losing your respect, GG

[jediashnoe]

Of course Infamous didn't make a gentleman's agreement, because you guys want to do whatever it takes to win. Your guild hates me so I could really careless about your opinion, Infamous lost all respect of playing an actual well fought and fun game, GG

 

I understand you could be frustrated with our guild but to just call us out...not cool. And if you actually are just super mad with Infamous, take it up with Feken or I or really anyone in the guild and we can figure things out. The absorb relic bug was extremely annoying, and if you had just asked us to tell the few people who used them to stop using them, maybe we could've avoided all this unnecessary drama.

Edited October 21, 2013 by jediashnoe

[xContex]

so apparently infamous exploits... ! time for a novel?

 

i use the double sa proc, like most did the last time it was around. meh /boohoo

i'll switch back when they fix it or if everybody else decides on a "gentleman's agreement"

 

far as the shield relic goes, we had a few that used it for laughs. i assure you mr. rancidbutthurtguy, if four of our best queued up vs any team that you are in... well the bugged shield relic would not be needed, tbh...

 

we do "exploit". we always exploit the weakest link(s) in any particular team. some players here suggesting we exploit in other ways seem to not enjoy constantly being the center of our (admittedly brief) attention. i think the longest it took to kill some bad pt with a big mouth was when we all decided to be douches (though we were just returning the favor, tbh... ) and let our healer shoot him down.

 

+1 ursh is a bad*ss healer, even without guard. carries us baddies through a good amount of our arenas (thasna does too<3).

 

p.s. can't wait til mrbigmouth opens it up on bastion forums. if we eat him up like bad(ew..?) birthday cake... imagine what the "real" pvpers will do to him

 

p.s.s. constantly talking sh*t on forums to people who never directed anything at you to begin with shows how insecure you are. just sit back quietly, find someone to carry you and hope the other team doesn't know how easy you are to kill.

 

TBH

 

and i don't think anyone in infamous cares about losing your respect, GG

 

+1.

 

25%-30% more damage can be healed through, not taking damage for 6 secs cant be damaged through, see the difference? called common sense, use it Also critting a fully geared healer or DPS through a guard isn't going to be anywhere near 10-12k sorry #Doyouevenplayanymore?

 

lol through a guard. Do you even pvp bro?. You don't talk about balance then factor in a guard. I am talking about me vs. 1 other person. But hey with that logic I really don't do 10-12k hits against a guarded vanguard tank with 2 pocket healers. You're right. 4v1 bro... too much for me.

 

You have no idea how easy it was for me when I could double stack SA relics. It was a joke. The damage output pre-patch was a joke. Healers couldn't keep up. That is is basically the opposite now. Healing output is > than damage output. But then again how am I to expect you to comprehend such complex ideas.

 

Of course Infamous didn't make a gentleman's agreement, because you guys want to do whatever it takes to win. Your guild hates me so I could really careless about your opinion, Infamous lost all respect of playing an actual well fought and fun game, GG

 

 

 

Ursh is probably top 3 scoundrel healer to ever play on BC. The fact that you, Luix, discredit him in any sense just makes you less credible with the little credit you actually have (if any). The fact that you put yourself up there when in fact 95% of the good pvp'ers quit the game/server shows how insecure you are. The fact that you are pouncing on infamous for a few peoples decisions shows the common sense that you lack.

 

If you were any good at PvP you would understand the mindset. PvP'ers will take any advantage they have and use it until it gets patched. Thats how PVP works. If this is your first MMO then I understand why you are naive in that aspect but welcome to online gaming. People are competitive. People will take any advantage they can get to win. Hence the birth of FOTM builds. Hense the birth of abusing double stacking SA relics. Hense the birth of abusing absorption relics. Hense the birth of corner capping.

 

PS. Remember the day when you thought you were the greatest DPS Imp side? I do. I laughed. Do you even force lift bro?

[RancidGuy]

+1.

 

 

 

lol through a guard. Do you even pvp bro?. You don't talk about balance then factor in a guard. I am talking about me vs. 1 other person. But hey with that logic I really don't do 10-12k hits against a guarded vanguard tank with 2 pocket healers. You're right. 4v1 bro... too much for me.

 

You have no idea how easy it was for me when I could double stack SA relics. It was a joke. The damage output pre-patch was a joke. Healers couldn't keep up. That is is basically the opposite now. Healing output is > than damage output. But then again how am I to expect you to comprehend such complex ideas.

 

 

 

 

 

Ursh is probably top 3 scoundrel healer to ever play on BC. The fact that you, Luix, discredit him in any sense just makes you less credible with the little credit you actually have (if any). The fact that you put yourself up there when in fact 95% of the good pvp'ers quit the game/server shows how insecure you are. The fact that you are pouncing on infamous for a few peoples decisions shows the common sense that you lack.

 

If you were any good at PvP you would understand the mindset. PvP'ers will take any advantage they have and use it until it gets patched. Thats how PVP works. If this is your first MMO then I understand why you are naive in that aspect but welcome to online gaming. People are competitive. People will take any advantage they can get to win. Hence the birth of FOTM builds. Hense the birth of abusing double stacking SA relics. Hense the birth of abusing absorption relics. Hense the birth of corner capping.

 

PS. Remember the day when you thought you were the greatest DPS Imp side? I do. I laughed. Do you even force lift bro?

 

You are going to talk about pocket healers? LOL? The most pocket healed Guardian in the game, Ok

1) In a 4v4 arena would you not factor in a gaurd? I have never done an arena where the healer did not have a gaurd, but sorry Scyn I forgot you are the

Gaurdian/Jugg around. From the start I have been talking about arenas

2) I never called Ursh a bad player. Plz find my post that I said that kthx

3) In PvP you can use exploits and many other ppl do/will. I would rather be beaten because the other team comp is better, or they are just better/have played longer together. To be beaten because you absorb my main attack/focus and I dont absorb your main attack/focus is a game of luck and is plain something I dont want to play against

I understand you could be frustrated with our guild but to just call us out...not cool. And if you actually are just super mad with Infamous, take it up with Feken or I or really anyone in the guild and we can figure things out. The absorb relic bug was extremely annoying, and if you had just asked us to tell the few people who used them to stop using them, maybe we could've avoided all this unnecessary drama.

4) The next time an exploit comes up, as I am sure there will be one, I will be sure to ask infamous to plz stop exploiting, LOL?

 

so apparently infamous exploits... ! time for a novel?

 

i use the double sa proc, like most did the last time it was around. meh /boohoo

i'll switch back when they fix it or if everybody else decides on a "gentleman's agreement"

 

far as the shield relic goes, we had a few that used it for laughs. i assure you mr. rancidbutthurtguy, if four of our best queued up vs any team that you are in... well the bugged shield relic would not be needed, tbh...

 

we do "exploit". we always exploit the weakest link(s) in any particular team. some players here suggesting we exploit in other ways seem to not enjoy constantly being the center of our (admittedly brief) attention. i think the longest it took to kill some bad pt with a big mouth was when we all decided to be douches (though we were just returning the favor, tbh... ) and let our healer shoot him down.

 

+1 ursh is a bad*ss healer, even without guard. carries us baddies through a good amount of our arenas (thasna does too<3).

 

p.s. can't wait til mrbigmouth opens it up on bastion forums. if we eat him up like bad(ew..?) birthday cake... imagine what the "real" pvpers will do to him

 

p.s.s. constantly talking sh*t on forums to people who never directed anything at you to begin with shows how insecure you are. just sit back quietly, find someone to carry you and hope the other team doesn't know how easy you are to kill.

 

TBH

 

and i don't think anyone in infamous cares about losing your respect, GG

5) The post between you and your guildie contradict, GG

6) I dont care if you want my respect or not. Anyone that q'ed against you or has run into your 8man pre-mades vs pugs doesnt respect you or your guild, GG tbqh

7) Again never called Ursh a bad healer, plz find me my post about that

8) Here you are running your mouth about how good you are, and you have a Sent on The Bastion. But I am yet to see you guys Q up 4v4 on The Bastion, so TBH you have no room to talk kthx

9) This all started by your guildie calling out my friend on the forums, Dont call out other people if you dont want to get called out right? GG

[Skinnychalk]

I'm sorry but the opinion of anyone who says Urshanabi is garbage isn't worth a damn because that person clearly has no ability to recognize talent outside of his little group of friends.

 

Im sorry but when I play him with a guard by Licil or w/e his guardians name is then I play him in a another arena and blow him up with out a guard pretty much sums up what I said. I can also recognize talent but blowing up a Scoundrel healer on a pyro pt in a few gcds means the scoundrel healer is garbage with out guard. Im sorry if you cant do it on your Vanguard cos well lets be real here

[AdrianDmitruk]

I wonder if anyone realizes how ridiculously tempting it was for Andreus to double-stack the absorb bug relic. After all he's a squishy sorc and if no tank is on, he runs without a guard!

 

But there was no way for him to know just how difficult (or not, I make no claims) he is to legitimately lock down and kill when running 30% invincibility that was clearly an exploit. So he healed legit, even when insecure DPS cycled InvinciProc with cooldowns so poor Andy couldn't Make Them Pay.

 

The quick and easy path of exploits never forces you to actually get better.

 

P.S. never ran with the double power proc exploit, either.

[Skinnychalk]

Why is everybody talking smack to Luix about saying this Scoundrel healer was bad? I did I said I blew him up in a few gcds without a guard and is garbage with out a guard like 98% of scoundrel healers.

[Skinnychalk]

I don't need to lie, that's exactly what happened.

 

And you could never in your life solo my jugg with your ****** veng jugg 3 times in a row.

 

You must have me confused with that other rage jugg on BC named Danyvon or something, cause it sure as hell never happened to me.

 

You wouldn't even duel me on your jugg when I challenged u. U got on your PT instead and lost lmao

 

You're horrible.

 

No his name was Heyday young Padawan plz try harder. The offer for $30 over Paypal is still open il even drop it to $25 cos you need some serious help.

[ZooMzy]

I wonder if anyone realizes how ridiculously tempting it was for Andreus to double-stack the absorb bug relic. After all he's a squishy sorc and if no tank is on, he runs without a guard!

 

But there was no way for him to know just how difficult (or not, I make no claims) he is to legitimately lock down and kill when running 30% invincibility that was clearly an exploit. So he healed legit, even when insecure DPS cycled InvinciProc with cooldowns so poor Andy couldn't Make Them Pay.

 

The quick and easy path of exploits never forces you to actually get better.

 

P.S. never ran with the double power proc exploit, either.

 

Lol, wut? Please stop trying to act like you did good in the face of exploits, most DPS don't need an invincibility buff to burst the garbage scrub you call a healer/DPS lol. Funny how you whine about not being able to outsmart DPS with a damage invincibility buff, when you couldn't even kill/heal effectively before hand.

 

Funny how you also think you're actually worth something after beating down bads in the regs, when your joke of a premade can't even beat decent pugs when I'm carrying you. Good to see you take my advice though, it's always nice to get a free win in WZs whenever you and Rev play on the pub team lol.

 

Chains kids, smh. Thinking they're worth something, yet again.

 

Why is everybody talking smack to Luix about saying this Scoundrel healer was bad? I did I said I blew him up in a few gcds without a guard and is garbage with out a guard like 98% of scoundrel healers.

 

Because the minute a guildie gets called out, the group comes running in to defend him.

 

So when Luix lolled at Jordo, it turned into Luix vs Infamous. Then Scyn kind of got pulled in and yeah....

Edited October 21, 2013 by ZooMzy

[JamesBalla]

Saying Urshanabi is bad just makes you look worse than you already do.

 

Hey guise, I came from a PvP server because I want to RP, but infact the only thing I'm going to do is run around with my Merc healer girlfriend and pretend I'm the best around because I couldn't cut it on a PvP server.

 

Get your behind to 55 already on the Bastion, so I can farm you to no avail, peon.

[jediashnoe]

4) The next time an exploit comes up, as I am sure there will be one, I will be sure to ask infamous to plz stop exploiting, LOL?

 

Do you think about what you say? Or do you just run your big mouth? Why don't you offer us some respect instead of bashing on us for things that aren't true. Sounds like you're just an angry little two year old who didnt get the toy truck he wanted.

[PoliteAssasin]

Saying Urshanabi is bad just makes you look worse than you already do.

 

Hey guise, I came from a PvP server because I want to RP, but infact the only thing I'm going to do is run around with my Merc healer girlfriend and pretend I'm the best around because I couldn't cut it on a PvP server.

 

Get your behind to 55 already on the Bastion, so I can farm you to no avail, peon.

 

Don't count on him sticking around there for long, he ran from Pot5 not too long ago cause he couldn't take it there. Be sure to give him the Dennys grand slamwich before he cops out again though, wish those pros were still on my server. So easy to talk trash when you think you're safe.

[bsbrad]

So.. I really tried to stay away from this thread since it is full of bad but wow. How stupid can people be? Double Power relic stacking isn't a huge deal but absorb relic glitching is? They are both equally bad. 6 seconds of invincibility every 20 seconds is on average a consistent 30% damage reduction at all times. Double proc'ing SA relics is an additional 450-500 power every 20 seconds for 6 seconds. When 2.0 dropped and it was BiS to have partisan + conqueror I was critting people on smash for 10-12k. When they removed that it dropped to 8-10k. That in itself is a 25-30% increase in damage. So you tell me what is worse? More common sense leads to less stupid arguments! Its a wonderful thing

 

/l2math.

 

I agree with Scyn, an exploit is an exploit, once the exploit is known by you the unwritten rule should be these should not be used. I have bad memories of being /stucked and corner capped a few times in ranked and would rather this not be the norm

[Skinnychalk]

Saying Urshanabi is bad just makes you look worse than you already do.

 

Hey guise, I came from a PvP server because I want to RP, but infact the only thing I'm going to do is run around with my Merc healer girlfriend and pretend I'm the best around because I couldn't cut it on a PvP server.

 

Get your behind to 55 already on the Bastion, so I can farm you to no avail, peon.

 

Shows how much you actualy no I never left the Bastion loooool. another terribad coming to save his buds.

[PoliteAssasin]

Shows how much you actualy no I never left the Bastion loooool. another terribad coming to save his buds.

 

know*. Oh the irony.

Edited October 22, 2013 by PoliteAssasin

[JamesBalla]

Shows how much you actualy no I never left the Bastion loooool. another terribad coming to save his buds.

 

Waiting for your arena team to q.

 

I need more rating, please feed me.

[Evonaut]

well was gonna leave this server all nice and quiet but meh only so much clear ******** I can take before butting in so here it goes boys time for me to sound like an ***. 1 Feken get down boy you're a good player and I respect you but luix is a fine player and you and your "top players" do worry about us cause they do the best of their means to get the win which is fine cause so do we it was a pleasure versing you on BC and hope to see you bastion but get your guild off their high horse because all and all even with those absorb relics (that trust me plenty of players in your guild used ) we still won plenty of matches against you. and im not saying we rofl stomped you guys cause im not a ******** liar like some people here> alright? so lets keep it real people its ******** and Idc what you pansies say you would've done if we "politely asked for you to stop" cause EVERYONE HERE can smell the ******** like and over used portapotty. but you know that's fine I kept my pride never abused had a hell of fun time with this server and still got wins and 2 mallo I like you dude we had a lot of fun time in teamspeak nice taste in music but pal you got an answer to what else infamous used if we start listing **** you'll just say "well besides that whjat did they abuse" which is fine I get it I don't call out dick riding cause I respect you a little still 3 im no perfect player none of us are here so lets all calm our jets before we lift off kids you'll have you're time to bite back at me 4 xam i'd like for you to look back a couple pages from your comment the **** talke started after jordo butted in which is fine we are all throwing grenades here but please look things over before you speak these weren't uncalled shots our friend jordo must expect these responses when he talks on the forums as do I expect a whole knew "wow that evoi guy is an ***" from this response all in all lets get our big boy pants on and be honest with ourselves for once

[jediashnoe]

well was gonna leave this server all nice and quiet but meh only so much clear ******** I can take before butting in so here it goes boys time for me to sound like an ***. 1 Feken get down boy you're a good player and I respect you but luix is a fine player and you and your "top players" do worry about us cause they do the best of their means to get the win which is fine cause so do we it was a pleasure versing you on BC and hope to see you bastion but get your guild off their high horse because all and all even with those absorb relics (that trust me plenty of players in your guild used ) we still won plenty of matches against you. and im not saying we rofl stomped you guys cause im not a ******** liar like some people here> alright? so lets keep it real people its ******** and Idc what you pansies say you would've done if we "politely asked for you to stop" cause EVERYONE HERE can smell the ******** like and over used portapotty. but you know that's fine I kept my pride never abused had a hell of fun time with this server and still got wins and 2 mallo I like you dude we had a lot of fun time in teamspeak nice taste in music but pal you got an answer to what else infamous used if we start listing **** you'll just say "well besides that whjat did they abuse" which is fine I get it I don't call out dick riding cause I respect you a little still 3 im no perfect player ynone of us are here so lets all calm our jets before we lift off kids you'll have you're time to bite back at me 4 xam i'd like for you to look back a couple pages from your comment the **** talke started after jordo butted in which is fine we are all throwing grenades here but please look things over before you speak these weren't uncalled shots our friend jordo must expect these responses when he talks on the forums as do I expect a whole knew "wow that evoi guy is an ***" from this response all in all lets get our big boy pants on and be honest with ourselves for once

 

Yeah but Luix was the one who blew it out of proportion....I think Jordums was just trying to say that he thought Ursh was a good player but I guess one thing turns into another.

 

Still love you doe, Evo. <3:(

[RancidGuy]

well was gonna leave this server all nice and quiet but meh only so much clear ******** I can take before butting in so here it goes boys time for me to sound like an ***. 1 Feken get down boy you're a good player and I respect you but luix is a fine player and you and your "top players" do worry about us cause they do the best of their means to get the win which is fine cause so do we it was a pleasure versing you on BC and hope to see you bastion but get your guild off their high horse because all and all even with those absorb relics (that trust me plenty of players in your guild used ) we still won plenty of matches against you. and im not saying we rofl stomped you guys cause im not a ******** liar like some people here> alright? so lets keep it real people its ******** and Idc what you pansies say you would've done if we "politely asked for you to stop" cause EVERYONE HERE can smell the ******** like and over used portapotty. but you know that's fine I kept my pride never abused had a hell of fun time with this server and still got wins and 2 mallo I like you dude we had a lot of fun time in teamspeak nice taste in music but pal you got an answer to what else infamous used if we start listing **** you'll just say "well besides that whjat did they abuse" which is fine I get it I don't call out dick riding cause I respect you a little still 3 im no perfect player none of us are here so lets all calm our jets before we lift off kids you'll have you're time to bite back at me 4 xam i'd like for you to look back a couple pages from your comment the **** talke started after jordo butted in which is fine we are all throwing grenades here but please look things over before you speak these weren't uncalled shots our friend jordo must expect these responses when he talks on the forums as do I expect a whole knew "wow that evoi guy is an ***" from this response all in all lets get our big boy pants on and be honest with ourselves for once

 

^^

[Evonaut]

love you too <3

but honestly peoples names get picked up im certain if ursh had an objection like all of us he is welcome here jordo took on the responsibility of backing ursh and our opinions reflected wider based on his affiliation with infamous which with my earlier post i'm not saying I have a problem with the guild but people here do and for that reason brings in more wood for the fire