Dread Palace mission reward: Arkanian Relic of Reactive Warding

[KentaroFremen]

Non-tanks get can pick between a Relic that adds 95 to their primary stat or 225 critical rating.

Tanks effectively can "pick" a relic that gives them a damageshield for 740 points for 6 seconds. Every 40 (FOURTY) seconds.

 

In other words, an average damage reduction of 18.5dps. Yay?

 

What exactly am I supposed to do with a 740 point damage shield?

I believe the last area where this kind of damage shield actually had a measureable impact was Quesh?

[THoK-Zeus]

Non-tanks get can pick between a Relic that adds 95 to their primary stat or 225 critical rating.

Tanks effectively can "pick" a relic that gives them a damageshield for 740 points for 6 seconds. Every 40 (FOURTY) seconds.

 

In other words, an average damage reduction of 18.5dps. Yay?

 

What exactly am I supposed to do with a 740 point damage shield?

I believe the last area where this kind of damage shield actually had a measureable impact was Quesh?

 

The Dread Forged Relic of the Reactive Warding (1360 shield) is bis for all tank classes. For confirmation of this math, just look in the tank forums. A 18,5 dps reduction means for most flashpoint / sm ops that you reduce incoming damage by ~2%.

[Shandellon]

DF relic is 34 dtps reduction. 16man HM ops most bosses will deal ~2000dtps. So you get 1.5% damage reduction post mitigation. Its better than what other relics give you. Close, but still better. For every other content, that numbers goes up (as tanks takes less damage), making relic even better Edited October 8, 2013 by Shandellon

[KentaroFremen]

The Dread Forged Relic of the Reactive Warding (1360 shield) is bis for all tank classes. For confirmation of this math, just look in the tank forums. A 18,5 dps reduction means for most flashpoint / sm ops that you reduce incoming damage by ~2%.

 

That may well be, but I am not getting a dread forged relic, I am getting an Arkanian relic with a 740 shield.

 

Are you telling me that a 740 shield once every 40 seconds is better than a +510 defense increase every 20 seconds?

Or a 395 defense clicky (yes I know, procs are better but I like my oh-sith-combo of adrenal, clicky and deflection) that increases my defense from 23 to 27% ?

 

Personally I rather have a higher chance of not getting hit to begin with than having the next 8k attack being reduced to 7260 points.

 

Just for math reasons: an increase by 4 percent-points means that one in 25 attacks is being avoided.

 

Assuming that NPCs also have a 1.5 second cooldown that means in every 40 second segment there are 26 attacks, of which ONE is being reduced by 740 points.

Sorry, not buying that math. MAYBE for 1360 because that might actually be felt, but not for 740.

 

Edit:

 

Interestingly enough here you are not quite so adamant about a damage shield as 2nd relic. Care to clarify your change of heart?

Edited October 9, 2013 by KentaroFremen

[Shandellon]

Are you telling me that a 740 shield once every 40 seconds is better than a +510 defense increase every 20 seconds?

Or a 395 defense clicky (yes I know, procs are better but I like my oh-sith-combo of adrenal, clicky and deflection) that increases my defense from 23 to 27% ?

 

Math, math, math

 

Lets assume 1000 dtps, so in 40seconds 40'000 damage pos-mitigation

If we use shield relic, we reduce damage to 39'260. That is 18.5 dtps reduction

If we use defense relic, for total of 12 seconds you prevent 5% more attacks. Lets say 23% -> 28% increase. In 12 seconds you are supposed to take 12'000 damage, 23% already prevented, so with no defense you would take 15'585 damage. With 28% defense you take 11'221 damage in that time, so we reduce total damage to 39'221. That is 19.5 dtps reduction

 

Relics are absolutely comparable

 

Now, for DF it shifts, as with better gear you have more defense originally, so extra defense from relic hits DR more severly, thus less gain, while shield relic works the same no matter the gear

[THoK-Zeus]

That may well be, but I am not getting a dread forged relic, I am getting an Arkanian relic with a 740 shield.

 

Are you telling me that a 740 shield once every 40 seconds is better than a +510 defense increase every 20 seconds?

Or a 395 defense clicky (yes I know, procs are better but I like my oh-sith-combo of adrenal, clicky and deflection) that increases my defense from 23 to 27% ?

 

Personally I rather have a higher chance of not getting hit to begin with than having the next 8k attack being reduced to 7260 points.

 

Just for math reasons: an increase by 4 percent-points means that one in 25 attacks is being avoided.

 

Assuming that NPCs also have a 1.5 second cooldown that means in every 40 second segment there are 26 attacks, of which ONE is being reduced by 740 points.

Sorry, not buying that math. MAYBE for 1360 because that might actually be felt, but not for 740.

 

Edit:

 

Interestingly enough here you are not quite so adamant about a damage shield as 2nd relic. Care to clarify your change of heart?

 

Are you stupid? My post was before 2.4 and has the new relics not included!

 

A 4% increase in defense rating doesn't mean a 4% increase in migation. It means that ~80% of the damage (assuming SnV HM) is migated 0,04*0,45 better. as tanks are already reducing the incoming damage from m/r attacks by ~55%.

It doesnt mean that 1 out of 25 attacks is avoided. It means that 1 out of 25 attacks is avoided but the damage the attack would have dealt is already reduced by armor + the possiblity of a shielded attack (so for m/r by ~55%).

 

Therefore 4% defense rating are ~1,44% additional migation. Assuming proc relic thats 12 seconds in a 40 second intervall a tank has to get over 4300 dps to make the defense proc relic worth it.

 

As we are talking about arkanian relics: 4300 dps you are just getting when you would tank tfb nim and the new hm ops, or when you would do 16 man hm's as a tank. If you are tanking these ops you can aswelll just get the dread forged one which is bis for all tank classes.

 

NPC's dont have a 1,5 sec attack Intervall! almost all of their attacks are splitted. Most of the operation bosses/thrash.... are attacking 3-4 times per 1,5 sec. Your kindergarden math is simply wrong.

 

For the math for the dread forged relic look in the tank section.

Edited October 9, 2013 by THoK-Zeus

[KentaroFremen]

Are you stupid?

 

Uhh, personal attacks..That coming from someone who quoted me with a 740 damage shield relic and then droning on about about a 1360 relic is rich

 

A 4% increase in defense rating doesn't mean a 4% increase in migation.

I was thinking that an increase in defense means damage avoidance.

An increase from 23% of all attacks being avoided -> an increase to 27% of all attacks being avoided. Since Defense is the first (and only) in line that is being checked for avoidance that's pretty clear to me.

 

Armor and absorb are for mitigation which comes after avoidance.

 

It doesnt mean that 1 out of 25 attacks is avoided. It means that 1 out of 25 attacks is avoided

 

So which is it? Have you considered proofreading before hitting "submit"?

 

but the damage the attack would have dealt is already reduced by armor + the possiblity of a shielded attack (so for m/r by ~55%).

Would've should've... Bottom line: Out of 100 attacks an increase from 23 to 27% means I don't get hit 4 more times. Taking your quote from below: 3-4 attacks in a 40 second window are 120-160 attacks. at 23% defense chance that means out of 140 attacks I get hit 108 times, 102 times with 27%. I'm pretty sure that any SM boss encounter does more than 740 damage over 6 hits. I even dare say that trash mobs do more damage as well.

 

Further considering the equipment mechanics in any MMO means, that the loot dropped in SM is suitable for HM ops, I am even more sure that HM operation npcs do more than 740 damage over 6 hits. Again, I'm sure it looks different for the 1360 relic, but the point is, the reward for beating Dread Palace in Story mode is unsuitable for future Dread Palace HM operations.

 

In the end it doesn't matter if I avoid one attack that does 740 damage or if my damageshield eats that attack for 740 damage. That looks different when the attack is for 741 damage. Suddenly avoiding it is more attractive.

 

Therefore 4% defense rating are ~1,44% additional migation.

Close, but no cigar. Over 30 seconds for a clicky or 6 seconds for a proc (and a proc gives me 6%, so roughly 2% according to your math ). either way, it's over a longer duration and not just one attack.

 

NPC's dont have a 1,5 sec attack Intervall! almost all of their attacks are splitted. Most of the operation bosses/thrash.... are attacking 3-4 times per 1,5 sec. Your kindergarden math is simply wrong.

 

I was simplyfying, Einstein. Perhaps you need to read up on the meaning of the word "assuming"?

If NPCs attack more frequently, then the shield relic is still less favourable, as the spikyness of a single 740damage shield is still not going to help anyone. It would be another story if the shield eats 740 damage or the next attack if the damage is > 740, but alas, that's not the case.

Once the fight is over it will look really nice on the spreadsheet, but from my own experience as a healer - a reliable reduction of overall incoming damage is preferred, even if the reliable, steady decrease is less than a spiky one.

[KentaroFremen]

Math, math, math

 

Lets assume 1000 dtps, so in 40seconds 40'000 damage pos-mitigation

If we use shield relic, we reduce damage to 39'260. That is 18.5 dtps reduction

If we use defense relic, for total of 12 seconds you prevent 5% more attacks. Lets say 23% -> 28% increase. In 12 seconds you are supposed to take 12'000 damage, 23% already prevented, so with no defense you would take 15'585 damage. With 28% defense you take 11'221 damage in that time, so we reduce total damage to 39'221. That is 19.5 dtps reduction

 

Relics are absolutely comparable

 

I'm not following the step from 12000 incoming damage to 15.585 damage here, I think you made an error.

12000 / 0,77 = 15585, from there you then calculate 15585 * 0,72 = 11221.

However the correct formula would be 12000 * 0,77 = 9240 Or am I missing something?

 

Using abovementioned 5% increase I would get 12000 * 0,72 = 8640

Using the reactive shielding relic I would get 12000 * 0,77 = 9240 - 740 = 8500.

 

Seems the shield relic wins for 1000dtps.

 

However at 1240 dtps the numbers are 10800 for the defensive relic and 10810 for the shield relic and will continue to be in favour for the defensive relic as the numbers go higher.

 

Now, for DF it shifts, as with better gear you have more defense originally, so extra defense from relic hits DR more severly, thus less gain, while shield relic works the same no matter the gear

I'm fully 72 geared with wrists, chests and belt being 78, my defense rating is ~23%, which is in sync with Keyboardninja's math for an optimal stat distribution. (actually slightly off but I'm waiting for augments to finish).

 

If I would have 25% defense, I'd estimate the clicky still giving me 4% increase, so the break-even-point is at ~1550 dtps.

[Shandellon]

Nah, those 12k are already after taking initial defence into consideration, so to calculate gain from additional 5% we need to rig original damage taken

 

You also need to consider, than in actuall combat some attacks completely ignore defense, while no attacks would ignore this shield. For example, in Firebrand & Stormcaller fight, where all damage are elemental, shield relic would be infinite times better than defense

Edited October 9, 2013 by Shandellon

[THoK-Zeus]

Uhh, personal attacks..That coming from someone who quoted me with a 740 damage shield relic and then droning on about about a 1360 relic is rich

 

 

I was thinking that an increase in defense means damage avoidance.

An increase from 23% of all attacks being avoided -> an increase to 27% of all attacks being avoided. Since Defense is the first (and only) in line that is being checked for avoidance that's pretty clear to me.

 

Armor and absorb are for mitigation which comes after avoidance.

 

It doesnt mean that 1 out of 25 attacks is avoided. It means that 1 out of 25 attacks is avoided

So which is it? Have you considered proofreading before hitting "submit"?

 

Would've should've... Bottom line: Out of 100 attacks an increase from 23 to 27% means I don't get hit 4 more times. Taking your quote from below: 3-4 attacks in a 40 second window are 120-160 attacks. at 23% defense chance that means out of 140 attacks I get hit 108 times, 102 times with 27%. I'm pretty sure that any SM boss encounter does more than 740 damage over 6 hits. I even dare say that trash mobs do more damage as well.

 

Further considering the equipment mechanics in any MMO means, that the loot dropped in SM is suitable for HM ops, I am even more sure that HM operation npcs do more than 740 damage over 6 hits. Again, I'm sure it looks different for the 1360 relic, but the point is, the reward for beating Dread Palace in Story mode is unsuitable for future Dread Palace HM operations.

 

In the end it doesn't matter if I avoid one attack that does 740 damage or if my damageshield eats that attack for 740 damage. That looks different when the attack is for 741 damage. Suddenly avoiding it is more attractive.

 

 

Close, but no cigar. Over 30 seconds for a clicky or 6 seconds for a proc (and a proc gives me 6%, so roughly 2% according to your math ). either way, it's over a longer duration and not just one attack.

 

 

 

I was simplyfying, Einstein. Perhaps you need to read up on the meaning of the word "assuming"?

If NPCs attack more frequently, then the shield relic is still less favourable, as the spikyness of a single 740damage shield is still not going to help anyone. It would be another story if the shield eats 740 damage or the next attack if the damage is > 740, but alas, that's not the case.

Once the fight is over it will look really nice on the spreadsheet, but from my own experience as a healer - a reliable reduction of overall incoming damage is preferred, even if the reliable, steady decrease is less than a spiky one.

 

It was not a personal attack, it was a question (as your lied in your statement about my post).

I was doing math about the 740 relic and just about the 740 relic..

Your kindergarden math is totally wrong. First awall you assume that the relic is active a whole 40 seconds. Its active for ~12 seconds (out of 40 seconds). So your 6 hits become ~1,8 hits.

 

Second you again forget that not every damage is defendable. Only melee/range enery/kinetic damage can be avoided. For any force/tech damage defense rating is useless.

 

Third you forget that the additional hits you avoid, would've been reduced in damage by armor and shield/absorb if you wouldn't have defended them. So 4% defense rating =/= 4% reduced damage taken.

Edited October 9, 2013 by THoK-Zeus

[KentaroFremen]

Again with the insults. Are you unable to create a post without trying to belittle whoever you're answering or do you suffer from constipation today? In that case I suggest prune juice.

 

1.8 attacks still do more than 740 damage.

 

When tanking avoidable attacks at 1000 dtps or over a defense proc is better, as shadellon's math shows. My click gives 395 defense = 4.8% increase. My proc relic gives 510 defense which would be somewhere in the neighbourhood of 5.5 - 6% increase, which further shifts the odds towards defense.

 

 

For me as Shadowtank - when I get hit by force/tech attacks shadowtanks have Resilience, offering 100% immunity for 5 seconds per minute, I can control when I need it and 5 seconds duration > 740 damage.

 

As I said before, I do not think that a one-time absorbtion of 740 damage is anything to be happy about, considering the long recast time. Sure it looks nice on a spreadsheet that the overall reduction was 18.5dtps, but it's not steady , reliable or predictable and therefore you can't really calculate it to actually help when you need it. Worst case for me: it procs when Resilience is up, making it completely useless. (Unless of course Resilience counts before the shield in which case I stick with my original judgment which is "meh".)

 

Again - the goal of SM gear is to make you ready for HM operations. at 69/72 the gear level already is sufficient for SM operations, getting a relic that replaces one 2% dtps reduction (defense proc) with another 2% dtps reduction that is more spiky and gives diminishing returns the higher the dtps is, is not exactly what I consider a "reward".

 

If the stat distribution were smoother (say, 370 attacks every 20 seconds or 180 every 6) one could actually work with it, but right now for my preference it's too spiky and too little reduction at uncontrollable times.

[Never_Hesitate]

Again with the insults. Are you unable to create a post without trying to belittle whoever you're answering or do you suffer from constipation today? In that case I suggest prune juice.

 

He called you out on horribly bad math, what about that was wrong?

 

1.8 attacks still do more than 740 damage.

 

Can you post the exact text of the Relic.

IMO you're confussing shield rating with an actual shield.

[KentaroFremen]

He called you out on horribly bad math, what about that was wrong?

 

"Your math is wrong" vs "go home with your kindergarden math". Admittedly, I had some errors, one might consider them "horribly", but that's adressing the math. not insinuating that the poster is at the mental age of a kindergardener.

 

Can you post the exact text of the Relic.

IMO you're confussing shield rating with an actual shield.

 

Pretty sure it's a shield, not a rating.

 

Quest: [OPS] The Dying Light

reward: Arkanian Relic of Reactive Warding

 

Equip: Incoming attacks have a 30% chance to grant an Absorb Shield that protects the user from 740 damage for 6 seconds. (...) once every 40 seconds (...) not in PvP

Edited October 9, 2013 by KentaroFremen
quotations

[Darth-Mailman]

Equip: Incoming attacks have a 30% chance to grant an Absorb Shield that protects the user from 740 damage for 6 seconds. (...) once every 40 seconds (...) not in PvP

 

The big question here is how to interpret this:

 

1. Is it a protective shield that reduces each hit with 740. So if you get hit by an attack that does 5k damage, does it with this relic activated (during those 6 seconds) reduce the attack to 4260 damage. And does it do this for every attack ?

 

2. Or does this mean you get a protective shield that blocks 740 damage and after that it is gone (which would make this pretty useless)

[THoK-Zeus]

"Your math is wrong" vs "go home with your kindergarden math". Admittedly, I had some errors, one might consider them "horribly", but that's adressing the math. not insinuating that the poster is at the mental age of a kindergardener.

 

 

 

Pretty sure it's a shield, not a rating.

 

Quest: [OPS] The Dying Light

reward: Arkanian Relic of Reactive Warding

 

Equip: Incoming attacks have a 30% chance to grant an Absorb Shield that protects the user from 740 damage for 6 seconds. (...) once every 40 seconds (...) not in PvP

 

My excact words were: Your kindergarden math is totally wrong.

 

Shandellon also has wrong stuff in his math, as hes assuming 100% melee/range energy/kinetic attacks (in reality its more like 70-80%).

 

Look into dipstik thread if you want the excact informations: DF Relic against the other DF Relics is better if the tank is taking less then 6,2 k (7,8k for absorb proc) pre migation damage (assuming 80% m/r attacks). For the arkanian one its then 54,4% of that damage compared to the df proc relics. I dont know how good the arkanian proc relics are compared to the df proc relics, you can count it yourself. but it will be atleast something around 4,5-5k for the absorb proc relic and even more for a clicky relic.

[KentaroFremen]

My excact words were: Your kindergarden math is totally wrong.

And that makes it better how?

 

but it will be atleast something around 4,5-5k for the absorb proc relic and even more for a clicky relic.

 

You either reply to somebody else or misunderstanding what I'm writing.

I'm not using an absorbtion proc or clicky.

I am using a defense proc and clicky.

 

The goal is to even out the damage over a manageable timeframe. It doesn't help that in a 10 minute fight my relic will proc 15 times and absorb 740 damage because you simply can't rely on it happening when you need it.

You also can't rely on any other proc happening when you need it, but 6 seconds every 20 seconds is considerably more manageable than 1 hit every 40 seconds.

 

Boss fights aren't math. Relics can proc just before some transition when you run somewhere, just before a tankswap or, generally, when the healer has their undivided attention on you because the raid is at full health already. This shield relic has an affect on 1 attack. My defense proc relic has an effect on 18-24 attacks. 18-24 attacks which, mathematically speaking, one will be totally avoided, provided it's avoidable to begin with (which, at 70-80%, your numbers, is a pretty good chance)

 

This whole discussion is nul and void if the damage is reduced by 740 on every attack for the next 6 seconds, however I don't interpret the text like that.

[THoK-Zeus]

And that makes it better how?

 

 

 

You either reply to somebody else or misunderstanding what I'm writing.

I'm not using an absorbtion proc or clicky.

I am using a defense proc and clicky.

 

The goal is to even out the damage over a manageable timeframe. It doesn't help that in a 10 minute fight my relic will proc 15 times and absorb 740 damage because you simply can't rely on it happening when you need it.

You also can't rely on any other proc happening when you need it, but 6 seconds every 20 seconds is considerably more manageable than 1 hit every 40 seconds.

 

Boss fights aren't math. Relics can proc just before some transition when you run somewhere, just before a tankswap or, generally, when the healer has their undivided attention on you because the raid is at full health already. This shield relic has an affect on 1 attack. My defense proc relic has an effect on 18-24 attacks. 18-24 attacks which, mathematically speaking, one will be totally avoided, provided it's avoidable to begin with (which, at 70-80%, your numbers, is a pretty good chance)

 

This whole discussion is nul and void if the damage is reduced by 740 on every attack for the next 6 seconds, however I don't interpret the text like that.

 

It makes it better cause it is the truth (your math was on the level i expect from children). If you have a problem with that, i would say its more a personal problem.

 

It's 1,8 attacks out of 140 every 40 seconds and i already proved that before, why are you continuing with that?

 

One of the relics is procing every 40 seconds (new arkanian relic procs every 20 seconds cause its bugged), the other one procs every 20 seconds. Woah what a difference.

 

All your "it may be" stuff also counts even more for the defense proc relic.

 

Therefore the proc relics (and the new relic is also a proc relic) are about 1,5-2 times stronger than the clicky relics on average.

 

For the difference:

Defense Proc Relics needs you to get full 6 seconds of the boss with maximum damage to achieve your maximum calculated value.

 

The new relic needs you to get 740 damage over 6 seconds to achieve full effect.

 

Tell me what is more likely to happen?

Edited October 9, 2013 by THoK-Zeus

[KentaroFremen]

It makes it better cause it is the truth (your math was on the level i expect from children). If you have a problem with that, i would say its more a personal problem.

I tend to think that one should behave on a forum like seeing face to face. It may be cool in highschool to say "kindergarden math", but in the real world one usually tries to be polite. As you can't seem to grasp the concept, I will just reciprocate in the same fashion. Sounds fair, troglodyte?

 

It's 1,8 attacks out of 140 every 40 seconds and i already proved that before, why are you continuing with that?

 

No idea what you are on about here. I already said that 1.8 attacks still do more than 740 damage.

 

One of the relics is procing every 40 seconds (new arkanian relic procs every 20 seconds cause its bugged), the other one procs every 20 seconds. Woah what a difference.

Since you're so strung up on percentages: one relic procs 100% more often than the other. Or 50% less. Your choice.

 

Therefore the proc relics (and the new relic is also a proc relic) are about 1,5-2 times stronger than the clicky relics on average.

And I am arguing that where? Seriously, are you reading this thread or do you have too many browser windows open?

 

For the difference:

Defense Proc Relics needs you to get full 6 seconds of the boss with maximum damage to achieve your maximum calculated value.

 

The new relic needs you to get 740 damage over 6 seconds to achieve full effect.

 

Tell me what is more likely to happen?

 

I don't need to get a maximum calculated value. I'm comparing a 510 defense proc relic with a 740 damage shield relic. Therefore:

A 5.5% increase in defense chance (which is what I get from the proc clicky) needs to reduce my dtps by 2220 points in a 2 minute window.

 

The damage shield relic will proc 3 times in 2 minutes: 740 * 3 = 2220.

 

In 2 minutes at 3-4 attacks (3,5 avg) per minute, of which 70-80% (75% avg) are actually defendable I will get:

 

120 * 3.5 * 0.75 = 315 attacks.

Avoiding 23% of these attacks thanks to my defense without procs = 315 * 0.77 = 242 attacks.

 

My proc will be active 6 times in 2 minutes which means for 36 seconds I have 5.5% increased chance of avoiding an attack

 

242 / 120 * 36 * 0,055 = 3,993.

 

Feel free to correct the math here, but from where I stand, each of these 3,9 attacks would need to be 200 damage or less for the damage shield to be better.

[THoK-Zeus]

I tend to think that one should behave on a forum like seeing face to face. It may be cool in highschool to say "kindergarden math", but in the real world one usually tries to be polite. As you can't seem to grasp the concept, I will just reciprocate in the same fashion. Sounds fair, troglodyte?

 

 

 

No idea what you are on about here. I already said that 1.8 attacks still do more than 740 damage.

 

 

Since you're so strung up on percentages: one relic procs 100% more often than the other. Or 50% less. Your choice.

 

 

And I am arguing that where? Seriously, are you reading this thread or do you have too many browser windows open?

 

 

 

I don't need to get a maximum calculated value. I'm comparing a 510 defense proc relic with a 740 damage shield relic. Therefore:

A 5.5% increase in defense chance (which is what I get from the proc clicky) needs to reduce my dtps by 2220 points in a 2 minute window.

 

The damage shield relic will proc 3 times in 2 minutes: 740 * 3 = 2220.

 

In 2 minutes at 3-4 attacks (3,5 avg) per minute, of which 70-80% (75% avg) are actually defendable I will get:

 

120 * 3.5 * 0.75 = 315 attacks.

Avoiding 23% of these attacks thanks to my defense without procs = 315 * 0.77 = 242 attacks.

 

My proc will be active 6 times in 2 minutes which means for 36 seconds I have 5.5% increased chance of avoiding an attack

 

242 / 120 * 36 * 0,055 = 3,993.

 

Feel free to correct the math here, but from where I stand, each of these 3,9 attacks would need to be 200 damage or less for the damage shield to be better.

 

Your last sentence is wrong, as you count over 2 min and thats 3 activations of the shield relic.

 

So you are basically saying you defend an additional of 3,993 attacks over 120 seconds. You also say the boss does 3,5 attacks per second ( i think 3,5 attacks per min is a typing mistake). You also say the shield relic defends 740*3=2240 damage over the same time.

 

Now lets make a true conclusion together (in kindergarden math): 3,993/3,5=1,14 seconds. So, if a boss does more then 1964 dps post migation your relic is better. Pre migation that is (depending on the Boss fight but with 75% m/r) about 5000 dps.

 

Edit: You started yelling at me (with big caps log letters) with a complete wrong math and lieing about what i wrote in previous forum posts and you expect a polite answer? You were the first one insulting people and now I shall be polite? Forget it!

Edited October 9, 2013 by THoK-Zeus

[haksilence]

Math, math, math

 

Lets assume 1000 dtps, so in 40seconds 40'000 damage pos-mitigation

If we use shield relic, we reduce damage to 39'260. That is 18.5 dtps reduction

If we use defense relic, for total of 12 seconds you prevent 5% more attacks. Lets say 23% -> 28% increase. In 12 seconds you are supposed to take 12'000 damage, 23% already prevented, so with no defense you would take 15'585 damage. With 28% defense you take 11'221 damage in that time, so we reduce total damage to 39'221. That is 19.5 dtps reduction

 

Relics are absolutely comparable

 

Now, for DF it shifts, as with better gear you have more defense originally, so extra defense from relic hits DR more severly, thus less gain, while shield relic works the same no matter the gear

 

 

this only works if you assume 40 secconds on ONLY ranged/melle damage. something that virtualy never happens in any ops. so this math is highly scewn in favor of the defense proc.

[Qvasar]

this only works if you assume 40 secconds on ONLY ranged/melle damage. something that virtualy never happens in any ops. so this math is highly scewn in favor of the defense proc.

 

That is exactly the point. Given the worst case scenario the relics are still comparable.

[haksilence]

the new HM content show a clost to 50/50 damage type ratio leaning more twoards 60/40 in force/tech's favor (if for the sake of ease we discount internal) so that meens only 40% of all attacks are defendable

 

so lets assume 2k DtPS for 40 secconds, that meens only 800 of that 2k is defendable

with the proc shield relic i does not matter what damage type is present

 

so lets apply your 27% defence (with the porc) to 800 DPS and we get roughtly 216 damage less. good job :)but thats only 48 more then if you didnt proc

 

now say you withdraw now if you proc the reactive warding for a 640 absorb shield then you are going to be cutting out 740 of that damage. seems fairly obvious now doesnt it...

 

if anyhting id go sofar as to say that the shield aplification is better than the FR relic for the newer content do to the odd damage ratios

[Shandellon]

this only works if you assume 40 secconds on ONLY ranged/melle damage. something that virtualy never happens in any ops. so this math is highly scewn in favor of the defense proc.

Lol, I'm the one defending shield relic here. Assuming 100% can be mitigated relics are the same. Any shift to elemental/internal makes shield one better and better.

 

Also, dont say it doesnt happen, there were fights with all elemental/internal damage (like F&S) as well as all kinetic/energy (Dashroode)

[Powerrmongerr]

Is the Conqueror Relic of Reactive Warding arguably superior to the Obroan, and maybe Dread Forged, versions? That one has +21 absorb on it as opposed to +21 power. I'm not sure if it's bugged, or if all other versions are bugged. So you get something like a 1000 point shield plus 21 absorb, versus a 1300 point shield with no absorb.

[KeyboardNinja]

the new HM content show a clost to 50/50 damage type ratio leaning more twoards 60/40 in force/tech's favor (if for the sake of ease we discount internal) so that meens only 40% of all attacks are defendable

 

Actually, you have it backwards, Jaberse. As of right now, we have numbers for most of the bosses in Dread Fortress, and only one of the bosses in Dread Palace (and then my log is a derpy progression death and not a clear). The DF bosses look to be just as M/R heavy as SV is (close to an 80/20 ratio). The DP boss that we've analyzed seems closer to TfB in that the ratio is 60/40, but the 60% there is M/R, not F/T. The only op I know of which is even close to F/T biased is Eternity Vault, and even then Gharj is enough to even the tables.

 

The point still stands though that the Reactive Warding relics are really, really good.