HM DF/DP Attack Types and Damage Ratios

[Razzberry]

What's the method for calculating it in the squish formula?

[Razzberry]

Gate Commander Draxus updated. I removed Mass Affliction and Subteroth explosion damage from the ratio calculations since technically those are avoidable when the fight is done 100% correctly.

[Razzberry]

Posting my methodology for peer review.

 

To determine DTPS:

1. Take the largest value for an unmitigated attack type in the combat log
   
2. Multiply it by the number of times that attack was used
   
3. If the attack was K/E, then also divide that number by my K/E damage reduction to find the pre-mitigation damage taken
   
4. Repeat for all attacks in the fight
   
5. Add up the totals of each damage type
   
6. Divide the total for each damage type by the duration of the fight to find the DTPS
   
7. Calculate the ratio of each damage type to the total DTPS
   

 

So, using Nefra as an example:

• The highest damage I received from Twin Attack was 4468
  
• I was hit by Twin Attack 171 times. 171 * 4468 = 764,028 damage taken
  
• My K/E damage reduction during the fight was 50.52%. 764,028 / (1 - 0.5052) = 1,544,144.794 damage taken pre-mitigation
  
• Voice of the Masters hit me for 1763 damage
  
• I was hit 19 times by Voice of the Masters. 19 * 1763 = 33,497
  
• My I/E damage reduction during the fight was 24%. 33,497 / (1 - 0.24) = 44,075 damage taken pre-mitigation
  
• The fight took a total of 192.621 seconds
  
• M/R K/E DTPS = 1,544,144.794 / 192.621 = 8016.49
  
• F/T I/E DTPS = 44,075 / 192.621 = 228.82
  
• Total DTPS = 8016.49 + 228.82 = 8245.31
  
• M/R K/E Ratio = 8016.49 / 8245.31 = 0.97225
  
• F/T I/E Ratio = 228.82 / 8245.31 = 0.02775
  

 

Does this method seem correct? I'm open to suggestions if there is some other way I should be calculating it.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Razzberry

[dipstik]

theoretically you should invert the damage taken function and solve for X Y and Z:

 

A=(X*(1-dr)*(0.5*(1-d-0.1)*(1-s*a)+0.5*(1-d)*(1-s*a))

B=Y*(1-dr)*(1-r)*(1-s*a)

C=Z*(1-ir)*(1-r))

 

A is m/r+k/e post mit, B is f/t+k/e post mit, C is f/t+i/e post mit

X is m/r+k/e pre mit Y is f/t+k/e pre mit and Z is f/t+i/e pre mit

where d-0.1 from is from 90% accuracy attack, 0.5 from fraction melee/ranged kinetic/energy at 90% accuracy

dr is damage reduction form armor, to kinetic and energy damage

d is defense fraction

s is shield fraction

a is absorb fraction

ir is internal resistance

r is resistance

 

so u have 3 equations and 3 unknowns (a, b c are known)

[MGNMTTRN]

I'm assuming this has to do with Blade Barrier, but I'm not entirely clear on the math to figure out how to optimally use DTPS to figure out the value of Strength and Power (especially in relation to other defensive stats). I've always just treated those stats more like a bonus.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=677589

I believe it gives 539 + force bonus * 0.7182 damage absorption per usage; with the 20% 4pc PVE tank set bonus, 907 force bonus damage from full 72 tank gear, and a 13 sec effective cooldown on bladestorm I projected 91 post-mitigation 'HPS'. The really great things about Bladestorm were that 1) sometimes your Bladestorm would absorb part of an internal attack 2) it was almot impossible to overheal with this 'self-healing'. So long as your Blade barrier buff was consumed before you recast Bladestorm, you weren't losing effective healing. And it is very hard to go for 13 seconds without consuming the Blade barricade buff.

 

As far as using it for DTPS calculations: in modern gear, assuming almost perfect Bladestorm usage, you'd see around 100 effective HPS from Bladestorm. So if you wanted to compare Guardian DTPS to Shadow or Vanguard DTPS you can compare Shadow DTPS - HPS to Vanguard DTPS - HPS to Guardian DTPS - 100, because Guardian's Blade barrier won't show as self-healing/HPS.

[Razzberry]

theoretically you should invert the damage taken function and solve for X Y and Z:

 

A=(X*(1-dr)*(0.5*(1-d-0.1)*(1-s*a)+0.5*(1-d)*(1-s*a))

B=Y*(1-dr)*(1-r)*(1-s*a)

C=Z*(1-ir)*(1-r))

 

A is m/r+k/e post mit, B is f/t+k/e post mit, C is f/t+i/e post mit

X is m/r+k/e pre mit Y is f/t+k/e pre mit and Z is f/t+i/e pre mit

where d-0.1 from is from 90% accuracy attack, 0.5 from fraction melee/ranged kinetic/energy at 90% accuracy

dr is damage reduction form armor, to kinetic and energy damage

d is defense fraction

s is shield fraction

a is absorb fraction

ir is internal resistance

r is resistance

 

so u have 3 equations and 3 unknowns (a, b c are known)

 

This ended up being more of a practice vs theory issue though. Ideally, those formulas would work with a really large sample size, but there were a couple problems I ran into.

 

1. Some attacks are rare, so lucky (or unlucky) mitigation could skew the post-mitigation DTPS for them pretty heavily.

2. Even if I were to collect data over a number of weeks, most of the mitigation percentages from gear would be changing on a regular (if not fight-to-fight) basis. The math would become a lot more convoluted very quickly, and I'd also need to be storing a lot more data about how my stats change over time than I generally do.

 

So, acknowledging the above issues, I went the with the "shortcut" route. From my analysis, it looked like the damage ranges on most boss attacks are pretty small, so finding the highest unmitigated damage of each attack and treating it like the "worst case" scenario for all unshielded, post K/E damage reduction attacks of that type gives a good enough value for calculating pre-mitigation DTPS.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Razzberry

[Razzberry]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=677589

I believe it gives 539 + force bonus * 0.7182 damage absorption per usage; with the 20% 4pc PVE tank set bonus, 907 force bonus damage from full 72 tank gear, and a 13 sec effective cooldown on bladestorm I projected 91 post-mitigation 'HPS'. The really great things about Bladestorm were that 1) sometimes your Bladestorm would absorb part of an internal attack 2) it was almot impossible to overheal with this 'self-healing'. So long as your Blade barrier buff was consumed before you recast Bladestorm, you weren't losing effective healing. And it is very hard to go for 13 seconds without consuming the Blade barricade buff.

 

As far as using it for DTPS calculations: in modern gear, assuming almost perfect Bladestorm usage, you'd see around 100 effective HPS from Bladestorm. So if you wanted to compare Guardian DTPS to Shadow or Vanguard DTPS you can compare Shadow DTPS - HPS to Vanguard DTPS - HPS to Guardian DTPS - 100, because Guardian's Blade barrier won't show as self-healing/HPS.

 

Awesome, thanks

 

I guess the only real practical question regarding Blade Barrier is how the 4-piece bonus compares to upgrading to a new level of armoring. That seems like the only real-world example of where there could be potential trade-offs, since in all other situations Strength and Power are just by-products of other gearing decisions. I'm assuming the extra armor value isn't high enough to justify breaking up a set prematurely, but there is likely a way to actually demonstrate it.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Razzberry

[dipstik]

blade barrier: (0.05 * 11180 + BonusHealing) * 1.2.

 

bonus healing = 0.14*strength+0.17*power+0.17*force power. remember you get a 5% buff to power and force power and a 11% buff to strength.

 

i assume every 12 seconds

[Razzberry]

Grob'Thok numbers are up.

[Kuciwalker]

How are you supposed to avoid Subteroth explosion damage? Stun a whole group just before they hit 0, walk away, and have rdps finish them? I'm not sure why you would really bother, because against a tank the damage just didn't seem like a big deal.

[KeyboardNinja]

How are you supposed to avoid Subteroth explosion damage? Stun a whole group just before they hit 0, walk away, and have rdps finish them? I'm not sure why you would really bother, because against a tank the damage just didn't seem like a big deal.

 

I agree. The Subteroths seem unavoidable for tanks. You should only take the number of hits that are on your side of the room though. So, if you see more than four hits in the first phase of adds, for example, you could remove the remaining hits.

[Razzberry]

How are you supposed to avoid Subteroth explosion damage? Stun a whole group just before they hit 0, walk away, and have rdps finish them? I'm not sure why you would really bother, because against a tank the damage just didn't seem like a big deal.

 

As a Juggernaut? Chilling Scream and run away. Force Push works too. It's not really that hard to avoid, and it helps save healer resources.

 

Carbonize works fairly well for Powertechs too.

[KeyboardNinja]

As a Juggernaut? Chilling Scream and run away. Force Push works too. It's not really that hard to avoid, and it helps save healer resources.

 

Carbonize works fairly well for Powertechs too.

 

Way more trouble than it's worth. We just pop them one at a time and delay the last for the healers. I can see the argument in favor, but it doesn't seem like it would be universal. Also, shadows don't have much that they can do in this department. Slow Time doesn't slow them enough, and the knockback only works on one pack.

[Berjiz]

Way more trouble than it's worth. We just pop them one at a time and delay the last for the healers. I can see the argument in favor, but it doesn't seem like it would be universal. Also, shadows don't have much that they can do in this department. Slow Time doesn't slow them enough, and the knockback only works on one pack.

Force speed works pretty well, let the range dps pick of the last health or use shock/wither. We drag all of the first wave in to the middle for aoe and when most of them start to get low I force speed out, some gets killed by the aoe and the rest gets killed one by one. For the later waves it's not as imporant that they are far away but force speed or overload usually works well.

[KeyboardNinja]

HM Bestia: http://www.torparse.com/a/452541/13/0/Damage+Taken

 

Highly derpy clear, but still a clear. Most people in my group hadn't successfully done any of HM DP before, and a couple of them had never seen SM. The adds got mismanaged a few times, so the damage numbers are slightly inflated in places. A pristine clear would be slightly lower.

 

Still going from memory (character sheet not in front of me) assuming a K/E DR of 37%. DR on I/E is 23%.

 

M/R+K/E

 

• Burrow - 421 - 3 hits
  
• Whip - 1994 - 7 hits
  
• Swat - 3841 - 20 hits
  
• Swipe - 3613 - 74 hits
  
• Squash - 9854 - 30 hits
  
• Assault - 6960 - 36 hits
  

 

Total damage = 905583

Ratio = 0.5673

 

F/T+K/E

 

• Dread Charge - 18625 - 3 hits
  
• Swelling Despair - 19962 - 6 hits
  
• Dread Scream - 9822 - 18 hits
  
• Pulverize - 16424 - 19 hits
  

 

Total damage = 664499

Ratio = 0.4162

 

F/T+I/E

 

• Expectorate - 6917 - 1 hit
  
• Combusting Seed - 19438 - 1 hit
  

 

Total damage = 26355

Ratio = 0.0165

 

Total length: 434 seconds

Total damage overall = 1596437

Total DtPS = 3678 DPS

[Razzberry]

Awesome, thanks KBN.

 

Bestia ratios added.

[KeyboardNinja]

Awesome, thanks KBN.

 

Bestia ratios added.

 

I'll have authoritative ratios for Tyrans and Calphayus tomorrow sometime when I get a chance to post. Would have had Raptus, but you know...DPS challenges. :-)

[Razzberry]

I'll have authoritative ratios for Tyrans and Calphayus tomorrow sometime when I get a chance to post. Would have had Raptus, but you know...DPS challenges. :-)

 

I didn't pick through your parse thoroughly, but I did notice a couple discrepancies for some attacks like Squash where I calculated a higher pre-mitigation number than yours. Are you using the maximum value for all attacks or are you averaging them out?

 

Also, Dread Charge is M/R. I double-checked my logs and I've parried it before.

 

Not that any of these will make a significant difference...

Edited October 10, 2013 by Razzberry

[insaneric]

Here's the spreadsheet I'm using to analyse my logs from this week (and more in the future).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au2fnVW6lDXQdHdkaGVrd2RzeHlJUEowbndkb1BUT1E&usp=sharing

 

Only have Dread Fortress completed so far, starting on dread palace now.

[THoK-Zeus]

Here's the spreadsheet I'm using to analyse my logs from this week (and more in the future).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au2fnVW6lDXQdHdkaGVrd2RzeHlJUEowbndkb1BUT1E&usp=sharing

 

Only have Dread Fortress completed so far, starting on dread palace now.

 

Some questions/reviews about the spreadsheet:

Nefra:

I did take a bit more damage from the dot (probably because my healers are not that fast with cleansing )

 

Draxus:

I just did take about 25% of your explosion damage from the Subteroths. The melee damage i took from the same is about the same you took tough. It would reduce the f/t e/k damage i took on this boss to ~6%

 

How are you tanking the Subteroths, or was there something special?

 

Edit: After looking through your logs, i see you got hit by 11 explosions from the subteroths (it's just 12 subteroths altogether in the whole fight).

 

We (the tanks) normally kite them half/half away from each other, so i just got hit by 6 explosives. I also shrouded some of the damage and had a normal shield percentage on the rest (unlike you).

 

Grob, Corrupter, Brontes: Get about the same results as you do.

Edited October 10, 2013 by THoK-Zeus

[AAAAzrael]

Nefra:

I did take a bit more damage from the dot (probably because my healers are not that fast with cleansing )

 

Another question to Nefra - we did a couple of pulls last night before we sorted cleansing enough for a kill, we saw HUGE variation in DTPS on both tanks even though we had 2 shadows with only very slightly different gearing and boss was targeting me through the whole fight. The differences went over 500DTPS both ways depending on the pull. We were both self-cleansing at the same moments etc. Do you guys also get this sort of variation?

Edited October 10, 2013 by AAAAzrael

[THoK-Zeus]

Another question to Nefra - we did a couple of pulls last night before we sorted cleansing enough for a kill, we saw HUGE variation in DTPS on both tanks even though we had 2 shadows with only very slightly different gearing and boss was targeting me through the whole fight. The differences went over 500DTPS both ways depending on the pull. We were both self-cleansing at the same moments etc. Do you guys also get this sort of variation?

 

Well i get less damage then our juggernauts (and i have the boss the whole time aswell). Probably the difference comes from your usage of cooldowns or simply because of damage variation of the Boss (that seems unlikely tough). From the logs he seems to hit both tanks for the same amount of damage, but i can just compare sin/jugg logs from our raid.

Edited October 10, 2013 by THoK-Zeus

[insaneric]

Nefra:

The amount of int/ele is pretty much all on the speed of the cleanses here. We have our tanks cleanses as a high priority (i also shroud it off whenever it's available).

I haven't compared the tank damages between our two tanks (i'll look out for it next week in parsec) I also had the boss for this fight (not sure if it makes a difference or not.

 

Draxus:

We group the Subteroths in the middle and aoe, then single target to finish the last few off slowly to ensure the healers can keep us up and have everyone full before taking down the last one. I don't use any cooldowns here, if I die it's the dps's fault xP

[THoK-Zeus]

Nefra:

The amount of int/ele is pretty much all on the speed of the cleanses here. We have our tanks cleanses as a high priority (i also shroud it off whenever it's available).

I haven't compared the tank damages between our two tanks (i'll look out for it next week in parsec) I also had the boss for this fight (not sure if it makes a difference or not.

 

Draxus:

We group the Subteroths in the middle and aoe, then single target to finish the last few off slowly to ensure the healers can keep us up and have everyone full before taking down the last one. I don't use any cooldowns here, if I die it's the dps's fault xP

 

Yes, i also shroud whenever possible. Judging from the damage from explosions you get and i get i would say our tactic (tanks spread out with each of the tanks having half the subteroths) is better but meh, it's hm

[KeyboardNinja]

I didn't pick through your parse thoroughly, but I did notice a couple discrepancies for some attacks like Squash where I calculated a higher pre-mitigation number than yours. Are you using the maximum value for all attacks or are you averaging them out?

 

You can't take the highest (or even the average) of anything on this fight due to the buffs. I happened to know that we were far from perfect on keeping bestia and the beasts separated, so there was a lot of buffing going on. Also, bestia gives a stacking debuff which increases her damage dealt to the tank, so you have to be really careful of that. I tried to find an instance of each ability which was archetypical, not shielded and not under a debuff. I may not have succeeded everywhere, but it would tend to yield lower mean values than what you would see if you take the max or the average.

 

Also, Dread Charge is M/R. I double-checked my logs and I've parried it before.

 

I thought it might be, but I couldn't find any instance of a parry or a miss in my logs, so I listed it as F/T.