The_Grand_Nagus Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) Because people with legitimate gambling addictions are playing this game.. and we do them no justice by allowing someone to profit off their inability to make smart decisions. People with video game addictions are playing this game as well. What is video game addiction? http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/features/video-game-addiction-no-fun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_addiction Oh, but you probably think thats just something silly that isnt very harmful, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_addiction#Notable_deaths So my question to you is, why arent you so upset about people with this addiction playing this game? Edited October 3, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Because people with legitimate gambling addictions are playing this game.. and we do them no justice by allowing someone to profit off their inability to make smart decisions. People with legitimate alcohol problems purchase alcohol too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachass Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Not only is your legal threat amusing, you don't understand how percentages work. Knowing the "odds" won't really help you decide how many packs to buy. It's like reverse engineering, you have a 20 % chance EACH time you reverse engineer a crafted item. No matter how many you RE, you only have a 20% chance to learn a new schematic each time. Just because you RE 40 items, you are not guaranteed 2 successes. The odds don't get any better. Therefore, say you have a 10% chance of getting a super rare item, buying ten, twenty, or even a hundred packs won't improve the odds each time you open a pack. I got a Nihilus mask in the first pack I opened, my buddy bought 2 Hypercrates and didn't get one. Not sure he once considered legal action lol. So look at it this way. The odds of getting a crazy-rare item is no doubt significantly lower than that of RE'ing. If you don't think those are good enough odds... Don't buy packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexDougherty Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 There seems to be a big misunderstanding when it comes to what gambling is and whether or not its illegal. as per Merriam Webster's gam·ble verb \ˈgam-bəl\ : to play a game in which you can win or lose money or possessions : to bet money or other valuable things : to risk losing (an amount of money) in a game or bet : to risk losing (something valuable or important) in order to do or achieve something So either post the "odds" of getting something specific in a cartel pack or you will be sued in the very near future. Firstly, it's not gambling in that sense, you buy the pack, what the pack contains is random, but since it has no monetary value it's not illegal. Secondly, stating the odds will not make it any less illegal, therefore anyone suing because they don't know the odds will get a rather nasty shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 Gambling involves the chance risking of money or objects having asset value. Again, CC is neither. They have no asset value. When you submit your yearly taxes, you don't include your cartel coin subscriber bonuses. The argument is completely ridiculous. There are people who list their MTG holdings (attained from packs or trade) as an asset and even have those items insured through policies because they have value. Nothing in cartel packs have value as all digital assets are property of Electronic Arts. However, the Cartel Coins are traded as an asset for purchases ingame which means they hold value to the individual who purchased them. The only difference here is that Cartel Coins cannot be traded, but they do have value as they can be exchanged for goods and services ingame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 There are people who list their MTG holdings (attained from packs or trade) as an asset and even have those items insured through policies because they have value. Nothing in cartel packs have value as all digital assets are property of Electronic Arts. However, the Cartel Coins are traded as an asset for purchases ingame which means they hold value to the individual who purchased them. The only difference here is that Cartel Coins cannot be traded, but they do have value as they can be exchanged for goods and services ingame. I've got a lot of monopoly money too which I can trade for fake houses. Should I list those on my tax returns too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laiov Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) There are people who list their MTG holdings (attained from packs or trade) as an asset and even have those items insured through policies because they have value.. Trading cards have commodity value and can be resold as such. All CC is the property of BioWare and cannot be resold. They are not your assets. When you buy them, you're receiving a service in exchange for your money. Not commodity. Not currency. Whatever sentimental value an individual wants to assign to CC is not synonymous with asset value. Edited October 3, 2013 by Laiov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelinCarnate Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 No lawyer in their right mind would take this case without payment up front. Good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elly_Dawn Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) i think posting the odds is pointless too... cause some people don't know how odds and averages work... if they post something at a 1/100 chance of being pulled we're gonna have some fool buy 100 packs and complain when s/he doesn't get the item that had the 1/100 odds, some people truly believe that 1/100 guarantees them one of the item in question if they buy those 100 packs, not understanding that the odds reset every time they open another pack... i got into an argument with a friend over this once, he truly believed no matter what i said that 1/100 is a guarantee of at lest 1 in 100, when in fact it is not... Edited October 3, 2013 by Elly_Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachass Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 However, the Cartel Coins are traded as an asset for purchases ingame which means they hold value to the individual who purchased them. The only difference here is that Cartel Coins cannot be traded, but they do have value as they can be exchanged for goods and services ingame. No. They don't. They really don't. That is exactly why they exist. Once you buy them, you are no longer spending legal tender. Whatever you do with them doesn't count as a legal transaction. Only the initial purchase of CC's is a legal transaction. I don't understand what's so hard to understand here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormwatch Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Rofl, this is just so amusing, so if you extend the OP's argument to the collectible card industry, such as the NFL, NHL, NBA, and the MLB card packages is a form of gambling. It's an individuals own personal choice to continue to spend their own money on the CC for that last piece of armour or for that rare trinket, where did personal accountability for one's actions or choices go?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Rofl, this is just so amusing, so if you extend the OP's argument to the collectible card industry, such as the NFL, NHL, NBA, and the MLB card packages is a form of gambling. It's an individuals own personal choice to continue to spend their own money on the CC for that last piece of armour or for that rare trinket, where did personal accountability for one's actions or choices go?? why have personal responsibility and accountability when we can have laws and government protect us. lets completely ignore the fact that you can buy packs off the GTN and not even spend CC coins on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpactHound Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Dictionary enthusiasts trying to transition into paralegal? Eagerly awaiting the Legislation and reparations that come as a result of this groundbreaking thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laiov Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Dictionary enthusiasts trying to transition into paralegal? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compensation_culture Can probably blame the lawyers either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudenfusz Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Gambling is a broad term and even though one can put what happens with the cartel packs into it, it doesn't make it a gamble for the porpuse of the laws that prohibit gambling in some nations. BioWare is fine with what they are doing, they surely had their layers look into it to make sure that in all contries it is available it goes with their local laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Hence you are gambling Hence you are not gambling. You get exactly what you are promised to get in a cartel pack. But keep tilting at windmills if it makes you feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) There seems to be a big misunderstanding when it comes to what gambling is and whether or not its illegal. as per Merriam Webster's gam·ble verb \ˈgam-bəl\ : to play a game in which you can win or lose money or possessions : to bet money or other valuable things : to risk losing (an amount of money) in a game or bet : to risk losing (something valuable or important) in order to do or achieve something So either post the "odds" of getting something specific in a cartel pack or you will be sued in the very near future. By your definition, you are gambling every time you purchase an MMO and pay a subscription. Why? Because the content changes over time and you simply do not know what you are getting. You might be getting an engine that needs to be replaced IYO. And to extend your contention into the real world.... you are gambling every time you buy a meal at a resturaunt. Why? Because you don't know if it is going to be good, or bad... or if you will get food poisoning. Edited October 3, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Grand_Nagus Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 There seems to be a big misunderstanding when it comes to what gambling is and whether or not its illegal. Well, at least the OP has said one correct thing in this thread. The irony is strong with this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sindariel Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Even a Cheeseburger is gambling, because sometimes you get 1 tomato and sometimes you get 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 Rofl, this is just so amusing, so if you extend the OP's argument to the collectible card industry, such as the NFL, NHL, NBA, and the MLB card packages is a form of gambling. It's an individuals own personal choice to continue to spend their own money on the CC for that last piece of armour or for that rare trinket, where did personal accountability for one's actions or choices go?? those assets are yours to keep stuff in cartel packs are not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 This thread topic is however a great example of why some feel there is a genuine need for tort reform in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 those assets are yours to keep stuff in cartel packs are not They're yours to keep in the game, same as any other game "asset." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) either post the "odds" of getting something specific in a cartel pack or you will be sued in the very near future. OP has a history of botching the application of definitions. This is another one. Not only does he manage to mis-state the point of the probabilities (a percentage probability is a poor indicator of "how long will it take..."), but he totally fails to apply the legal definition of gambling. As others have pointed out: You buy cartel coins with money. You get exactly what you pay for, with strictly defined purchase amounts and coin amounts which do not vary based on the time of purchase, customer order, or any random event. Those coins are game tokens, allowing you to take part in a game. The moment you start using them in-game (which includes the cartel market) they are game mechanisms, and have zero real world value (as you cannot convert them to currency). Even then, when using them to buy something, you are assured of getting something of value in return. However, there is no guarantee that it has a value that is equivalent or better than the value you assign to the coins. Of course, that's entirely based on your opinion. So, if this is illegal gambling, then so is: A carnival game (you pay to play, but are not guaranteed to get a prize that you feel is worth the price to play)Buying boxed produce (you buy the box, but cannot verify that the quality or flavor matches what you wanted)Gumball machinesFishing OP wants something simple, but fails to understand how to use the information, and then super-fails to find some sort of leverage or argument to require it. Summed up nicely here: I'll never understand why people choose slander over reason to get something. Because they don't have a good argument, and require hyperbole and dishonesty in order to provide some foundation for their statements. You use it when you don't have logic or facts on your side. Edited October 3, 2013 by Malastare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) those assets are yours to keep stuff in cartel packs are not You are confusing a license to play with ownership. Nothing in this game is yours to keep. It's all IP owned by EA... and access to it is extended to you in the forum of a non-exclusive license under commercial terms stipulated by the company. You can't take a movie home with you from the movie theater either.. but you pay to access it and you may in fact get a great movie that entertains you or you may be forced to sit through a complete turkey of a movie. It's a "gamble". Do you also plan to sue the local movie theater if you do not get the entertainment you feel you deserve? So.. you want to take the communications context of using the word "gamble" and make it = the legal definition (which by the way varies by jurisdiction) and you want to do what with it? That's a real "gamble" on your part as you are very likely going to be tossed out of court for a frivolous claim and may even have to pay court fees as compensation. Edited October 3, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimG Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 There seems to be a big misunderstanding when it comes to what gambling is and whether or not its illegal. as per Merriam Webster's gam·ble verb \ˈgam-bəl\ : to play a game in which you can win or lose money or possessions : to bet money or other valuable things : to risk losing (an amount of money) in a game or bet : to risk losing (something valuable or important) in order to do or achieve something So either post the "odds" of getting something specific in a cartel pack or you will be sued in the very near future. Stop embarrassing yourself, lol. Hate to break the news to you, but our courts don't enforce Webster's Dictionary. We have these things called "laws"....what's written there is what is legal or illegal. CM packs are just as legal as baseball card packs or hundreds of other types of trading card packs. If you think otherwise, you're delusional. Gotta love wanna-be internet lawyers, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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