So did they basically nerf all crafting in this patch?

[Thraka]

Basic gear now has higher mod levels, but no corresponding recipes made available?

[Hambunctious]

It looks that way.

[EvgenijM]

Nerfed? I am sorry, but "killed" would be a better word.

Who will craft grade 72 now, when you can do HM Flashpoints to get it for Elite comms.

Not to mention that running 16man SM OPs and farming Ultimate comms will get you grade 78 gear.

[wainot-keel]

Nerfed? I am sorry, but "killed" would be a better word.

Who will craft grade 72 now, when you can do HM Flashpoints to get it for Elite comms.

Not to mention that running 16man SM OPs and farming Ultimate comms will get you grade 78 gear.

 

If MMGs and Isotopes were fairly easily available (the latter seem to have vanished from game, lol) I would definitely craft some 72 instead of grinding elite comms. Not to mention, the enhancements are kinda crappy from vendor gear. But true... this patch is a huge hit.....

[Thraka]

Nerfed? I am sorry, but "killed" would be a better word.

Who will craft grade 72 now, when you can do HM Flashpoints to get it for Elite comms.

Not to mention that running 16man SM OPs and farming Ultimate comms will get you grade 78 gear.

 

(sigh) That was what I was thinking, too, but I didn't want to get told how stupid and whiny I was if I led off with that and found out I had just overlooked something obvious. I am very disappointed by this change. I just spent a ton of time and credits trying to do something more with my crafting, and now it seems it was wasted.

 

Was this announced and I just missed it, or was it the surprise to everyone that it was to me?

[mike_is_valid]

I wish BW/EA would just make a final move and remove crafting completely from the game. At least i would not have to be angry anytime the put a new patch out.

 

Crafting mats for low grade gear from an OPS run, its a joke.

[EvgenijM]

Was this announced and I just missed it, or was it the surprise to everyone that it was to me?

 

They were silent about this untill last day. Lead Designer Jesse Sky mentioned that Kell Dragon won't be craftable in 2.4 about a week before the patch. But his posted was deleted shortly afterwards.

 

Anyway, the reason crafting took such hit is not the inability to craft 75 or 78 itself.

Before 2.4 we had a world when BiS gear could not be crafted or purchased with comms. I believe this was a perfect decision, since to get best gear you had to work really hard, doing NiM Ops. Not everyone had a team or skills to complete NiM bosses, so grade 75 gear was a reward for hardcore progression gamers. In per-2.4 world crafting 72 gear helped people to optimize their gear and gear up to complete harder content.

Well, this part did not change after 2.4 - we still can't craft BiS gear (75 and 78), but now people can get BiS gear for comms. And to get those comms they can do 16-man SM Ops and Flashpoints - the easiest stuff in the end-game which basically is a run-through with current gear.

Of course, current BiS gear for comms is not too good. But even non-optimal gradee 78 mods you get for comms are same or better than optimal 72, because the difference between them is now two tiers. Same as before tanks got worse mods again, but healers and DPS can get a lot of good mods for comms.

 

What was developers' reasoning behind this? I frankly can't come up with anything reasonable.

Was it the idea to make it easier for people to get grade 78 gear? But it's disappointment and loss of challenge for others.

They plan to make 75 or 78 craftable soon?

Or was it simply the easiest thing to do, since shifting gear tiers for all ops would require a remake of existing content and huge amount of testing effort. And they just took the easier path?

I don't know. Guess we have to wait and find out.

But for now it looks they had no plan at all. The decision looks incompetent and not well-though.

We might need to speak up and say this loud to them, but frankly I myself can't yet come up with any serious solution on how exactly this situation could be fixed now.

[EnderSeventyFour]

There are a lot of really nice things in this patch... But as far as crafting is concerned, it really feels like it was forgotten.

"Woops, we've just made end game crafting useless"

 

And 78's for Ultimate comms that you still get from HM FPs ?

[Ancaglon]

And 78's for Ultimate comms that you still get from HM FPs ?

If Hard-mode flashpoints are your only way of getting Ultimate Comms, it will be nearly 2 years before you have a full set... (12 Ultimate a week, 1180 comms for a full set).

[psandak]

And 78's for Ultimate comms that you still get from HM FPs ?

 

Timeout. Let's get logical for a moment:

 

#1 - The "costs" for ultimate comms gear is the same as it was pre-2.4: sub-optimal but top stat allocation but most of it sucks for many specs: loaded with *A* stat).

 

#2 - 55MHPs still drop Black Market (69) gear and elite comms off each boss. Yes, that means that one can get Verpine gear just running 55HMFPs. But Verpine (72) gear still SUCKS: as in pre-2.4 it is sub-optimal stat allocation overloaded with *A* stat that is not necessarily beneficial to the spec getting it.

 

#3 - For someone to get even one piece of 78 gear only doing HMFPs one must run three 55HMFPs each week for SEVEN weeks (bracers and belts cost 80 ultimate comms. one gets 12 ultimate comms for completing the 55HMFP weekly. 80/12=6-2/3). That is a LOT of time for one piece of BiS gear.

 

#4 - Running the new SM Ops only cuts the time required in #2 in half. One still needs to do the HMFP and SMOP weeklies to get ONE piece of gear in a month (that's assuming they get nothing from the OPs themselves.)

 

So, everyone just take a breath.

 

That being said, I agree that those who can craft 31s will take a hit, but I do not think it is as severe as this thread makes it out to be.

[EvgenijM]

Running SM OPs in 16-man group gives you Ultimate comms for every boss. Add WEKKLY comms here (including the one for 3 x HM FPs) and You will easily hit 150 limit a week without doing any HM content, not to mention NiM. And 16-man SM OPs are the easiest OPs of all. Practically a run-through. You have half of the team who are experienced and overgeared, and another half might not even know the tactics and still complete it.

 

And about the quality of grade 78 gear for comms. True, it is not too good for tanks, but quite good for DPS and healers. At least it is better than optimal 72 gear you were ordering from crafters before. And You can get 72 for farming HM FPs and doing weeklies in daily locations.

 

I agree, some items which you can't get for comms, like hilts and barrels might still be popular. But as if it was not enough, they removed Isotops from Basic Gear Vendor. The prices for Isotops gone crazy now. And this will seriously lower the amount of people ordering 72 gear.

[xMegrinx]

So all the work we've done and money we're spent for our crafting skills is for nothing. Great.

[psandak]

Running SM OPs in 16-man group gives you Ultimate comms for every boss. Add WEKKLY comms here (including the one for 3 x HM FPs) and You will easily hit 150 limit a week without doing any HM content, not to mention NiM. And 16-man SM OPs are the easiest OPs of all. Practically a run-through. You have half of the team who are experienced and overgeared, and another half might not even know the tactics and still complete it.

 

But what percentage of the casual gamer crowd will actually do 16man SM Ops EVERY week? What you are speculating about are the more dedicated player base, getting exactly what they should be getting.

 

So all the work we've done and money we're spent for our crafting skills is for nothing. Great.

 

Not me. Why? Because I knew this would happen so I focused my efforts in different directions . Crafting is not always about the top end:eek:

[EvgenijM]

But what percentage of the casual gamer crowd will actually do 16man SM Ops EVERY week? What you are speculating about are the more dedicated player base, getting exactly what they should be getting.

 

What casual players are you referring to? Level 55s who never do ops? Well, these people never needed end-game crafting and the thread is not about them. If people do Ops, 16-man SM are easiest OPs. Even clueless and unskilled players can complete them. Allowing even unskilled players to purchase BiS gear (not to mention skilled players) is something which made end-game crafting mostly obsolete.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Basic gear now has higher mod levels, but no corresponding recipes made available?

 

I always wondered what's the difference between "basic" gear and "green" gear ?

 

I mean - in RL, the word "basic" has a meaning which is almost the direct opposite to the meaning in SWTOR ...

 

To me, this is a hefty mix-up between RL language and in-game language. I don't like this at all - from a language point of view ...

 

Just tell in RL a person that his Ferrari is a "basic vehicle" ... Yeah, right ...

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Once they fix Iso-5's back for basic comms ( added as known bug ) it will be interesting to see how this effects MMG's and 72's. Considering you can now get 72's for elite comms and elite comms are very easy to get compared to the rarity of MMG's the results should be interesting - basically easy to get gear vs still rare to craft gear ( as MMG's are still damn hard to come by ). I don't see the price of MMG's dropping that much either due to their rarity.

 

Hopefully they introduce an easier way to farm MMG's to make crafting 72's at least viable comapred to farming elite comms for new gear.

 

I don't think we need to see 1 million + cred mods anymore and most people getting their nose out of line are probably bitter about that but that was ALWAYS going to happen at some stage as new gear was introduced so get over it already.

I probably spent 20-30 million gearing up my 72's over the past month or so and wasting all my elite comms on 1 particular item of gear so I could try get the enhancement schem off it ( still haven't got it lol ) and I'm not bitter so all those that made those millions off me need to get over it as well. Adjust, adapt and move on and keep the whinging for something that matters ( like how dare BW release a new op that they knew noone could finish! ).

 

What we do need though to at least make crafting 72's viable ( regardless of at what price the market dictates ) is easier to obtain MMG's and ISO5's comapred to the easy to obtain elite comms. Then things would balance out a bit more.

[EvgenijM]

Once they fix Iso-5's back for basic comms ( added as known bug ) it will be interesting to see how this effects MMG's and 72's. Considering you can now get 72's for elite comms and elite comms are very easy to get compared to the rarity of MMG's the results should be interesting - basically easy to get gear vs still rare to craft gear ( as MMG's are still damn hard to come by ). I don't see the price of MMG's dropping that much either due to their rarity.

 

Hopefully they introduce an easier way to farm MMG's to make crafting 72's at least viable comapred to farming elite comms for new gear.

 

I don't think we need to see 1 million + cred mods anymore and most people getting their nose out of line are probably bitter about that but that was ALWAYS going to happen at some stage as new gear was introduced so get over it already.

I probably spent 20-30 million gearing up my 72's over the past month or so and wasting all my elite comms on 1 particular item of gear so I could try get the enhancement schem off it ( still haven't got it lol ) and I'm not bitter so all those that made those millions off me need to get over it as well. Adjust, adapt and move on and keep the whinging for something that matters ( like how dare BW release a new op that they knew noone could finish! ).

 

What we do need though to at least make crafting 72's viable ( regardless of at what price the market dictates ) is easier to obtain MMG's and ISO5's comapred to the easy to obtain elite comms. Then things would balance out a bit more.

 

A lot of good points, mate!

Now when isotops are back let's see what other changes will be done to return crafting to live.

You are right, making MMGs easier to get could really give crafting another chance.

And I totally agree, everyone needs to adapt, that's how it is. But we can't really do much without developer's intervention here

[Mike_Hawke]

Yea I'm nerfed to crafting CLASSIC gear now ... fuken games tossed now

[Hambunctious]

What casual players are you referring to? Level 55s who never do ops? Well, these people never needed end-game crafting and the thread is not about them. If people do Ops, 16-man SM are easiest OPs. Even clueless and unskilled players can complete them. Allowing even unskilled players to purchase BiS gear (not to mention skilled players) is something which made end-game crafting mostly obsolete.

 

That's not the right way to look at it. There are people who want to make these items to sell to people who want to run Ops. Crafting should be as valid of a way to play this game as anything else.

[abercromb]

Nope.

 

They moved it all up a level again. They do this every few months and yes it upsets top end crafters but that's the risk when you sell the top tier of crafted items. The area they hit the hardest was 28's. I had a steady stream of sales on mods and armouring's. Now every player at 55 can get a full set in 2 hours in the new area. But that's life, used to make a lot from 50 augments, then they moved it up a level and killed that off. There is always a gap to make money, players now have to see what that gap is.

 

But I doubt many crafters are sitting there with 2 mil in the bank saying they killed my in game money making. Top end crafters are almost never poor, now it just means the very rich will have to work a bit to get richer.

[EvgenijM]

Nope.

 

They moved it all up a level again. They do this every few months ...

 

Highest tier gear is now purchasable for comms.

Craftable gear is now 2 tier lower than BiS gear.

 

This never happened before.

[Toraak]

They were silent about this untill last day. Lead Designer Jesse Sky mentioned that Kell Dragon won't be craftable in 2.4 about a week before the patch. But his posted was deleted shortly afterwards.

 

Anyway, the reason crafting took such hit is not the inability to craft 75 or 78 itself.

Before 2.4 we had a world when BiS gear could not be crafted or purchased with comms. I believe this was a perfect decision, since to get best gear you had to work really hard, doing NiM Ops. Not everyone had a team or skills to complete NiM bosses, so grade 75 gear was a reward for hardcore progression gamers. In per-2.4 world crafting 72 gear helped people to optimize their gear and gear up to complete harder content.

Well, this part did not change after 2.4 - we still can't craft BiS gear (75 and 78), but now people can get BiS gear for comms. And to get those comms they can do 16-man SM Ops and Flashpoints - the easiest stuff in the end-game which basically is a run-through with current gear.

Of course, current BiS gear for comms is not too good. But even non-optimal gradee 78 mods you get for comms are same or better than optimal 72, because the difference between them is now two tiers. Same as before tanks got worse mods again, but healers and DPS can get a lot of good mods for comm.

 

While I'll admit crafting did take a huge hit during 2.4, I'd still say crafters can still craft 72 enhancements, which are far better then the crappy 78 enhancements they give in the vendor gear (for sorc healers anyway). The loss in power/crit isn't really worth the increase in surge/alac. I personally don't see why they'd take out the Isotope 5's from the basic vendor tho. To me that is the real hit for the crafters. The loss of the isotopes means fewer people will even go to get those enhancements crafted.

[tanktest]

They were silent about this untill last day. Lead Designer Jesse Sky mentioned that Kell Dragon won't be craftable in 2.4 about a week before the patch. But his posted was deleted shortly afterwards.

 

Anyway, the reason crafting took such hit is not the inability to craft 75 or 78 itself.

Before 2.4 we had a world when BiS gear could not be crafted or purchased with comms. I believe this was a perfect decision, since to get best gear you had to work really hard, doing NiM Ops. Not everyone had a team or skills to complete NiM bosses, so grade 75 gear was a reward for hardcore progression gamers. In per-2.4 world crafting 72 gear helped people to optimize their gear and gear up to complete harder content.

Well, this part did not change after 2.4 - we still can't craft BiS gear (75 and 78), but now people can get BiS gear for comms. And to get those comms they can do 16-man SM Ops and Flashpoints - the easiest stuff in the end-game which basically is a run-through with current gear.

Of course, current BiS gear for comms is not too good. But even non-optimal gradee 78 mods you get for comms are same or better than optimal 72, because the difference between them is now two tiers. Same as before tanks got worse mods again, but healers and DPS can get a lot of good mods for comms.

 

What was developers' reasoning behind this? I frankly can't come up with anything reasonable.

Was it the idea to make it easier for people to get grade 78 gear? But it's disappointment and loss of challenge for others.

They plan to make 75 or 78 craftable soon?

Or was it simply the easiest thing to do, since shifting gear tiers for all ops would require a remake of existing content and huge amount of testing effort. And they just took the easier path?

I don't know. Guess we have to wait and find out.

But for now it looks they had no plan at all. The decision looks incompetent and not well-though.

We might need to speak up and say this loud to them, but frankly I myself can't yet come up with any serious solution on how exactly this situation could be fixed now.

 

We have all ways been able to get bis with coms , that never really stopped .

 

But for now it looks they had no plan at all. The decision looks incompetent and not well-though.

We should have picked up on that for NIM gear when you could only get it with tokens ..

I think that was the plan all a long , but you made a good point why didn't they just tell us up front not wait till now .

 

and sense we can buy 78's with coms we can expect them to be craft able when 81's hit which might be NIM gear or the next expac is said , which i do hope they think out on how trades are gonna work for the next expac , i mean will 78 even be worth it , once a new expac hits if it happens or will they set a good time line for 78's to be worth the trouble that said

 

i'd say expect NIM DF /DP gear to be the last gear before the expac and not craft able .

 

SO buy in BiS with tokens Or coms never really stopped , it did took a back door to NIM gear . which prolly wont ever sty BiS for long and prolly will all ways only be bought with tokens or drops only in NIM .

 

Which I 'm ok with, i don't run NIM have been asked to a few times , i just don't want to , its not a big deal to me , If i do or don't ..

 

 

But i wish they had let us know that was the plan ...Like i said I am OK with NIM being drop only gear .

 

BTW I was one of the main posters in that post that was on PTS . if i rember I did not ask once if we were gonna be able to craft 75, i sort of had a feeling it wasn't gonna happen . i was worried about trades and whats ahead, I'm not now .

 

One last thought there is all ways a plan it may seem there isn't but there is .. I'm not taking up for BW/EA . thats just a fact, its all planed , just how they Deploy that plan may be the problem , that needs to be thought out more . the plan it self does seem solid .

 

Just my thought .

Edited October 7, 2013 by tanktest

[tanktest]

While I'll admit crafting did take a huge hit during 2.4, I'd still say crafters can still craft 72 enhancements, which are far better then the crappy 78 enhancements they give in the vendor gear (for sorc healers anyway). The loss in power/crit isn't really worth the increase in surge/alac. I personally don't see why they'd take out the Isotope 5's from the basic vendor tho. To me that is the real hit for the crafters. The loss of the isotopes means fewer people will even go to get those enhancements crafted.

 

 

reason for that , and remeber im not in favor of how hey do it but it is there game etc ..

 

One of the Dev posted, why, they did it that way with gear that is bought with coms , two reason, i think he said was to slow down how fast we gear, main reason and they want us to work for it .

 

the surge/alac thing was for those reason .

 

remeber tank gear has ala which made no sense at all till a DEV came out and told us why imo they admitted that was why . because at that time they were pushing ala to make it seem worth while .

 

which i still don't stack (ala) on my Sorc healer and I'm one of the best healers on my server .

 

Don't ask my name i won't give it out on the forums till they fix there forums rules ,i got warned one time for using names on the forums so i won't any more ..

 

ISO 5 was a Bug mistake they did rewrite that vendor from 66 to 69 and the way the game engines works it does not update itself like most game engines and why we have so many bugs now , it is a very carply engine but I'm not here complaining about that ,they are doing a awesome job imo with what they have . I'm no EA fan never have been and prolly never will be . have never liked EA but do love SW ..

Edited October 7, 2013 by tanktest

[Karkais]

There are a lot of really nice things in this patch... But as far as crafting is concerned, it really feels like it was forgotten.

"Woops, we've just made end game crafting useless"

 

They keep forgetting crafting repeatedly.

 

ps. I agree that BiS gear should not be able to be crafted or purchased.