Please switch the engine now before its too late..

[Hazed]

How is this kid able to present a better Nar Shadaa using Cryengine3?

 

 

Seriously, ***? Get your act together!

 

Someone at bioware just needs to pull the plug and quickly switch engines. Sure you have to pay the cryengine license, but you will at least have a steady stream of students who can easily adapt SWToR into the next generation.

 

It is either that or watch this game slowly die. Nothing more to be said as the evidence is there, we are down to 4 servers with decent pops!

 

The current engine is a joke and anyone who says otherwise is a fool, this game has been out for 2 years and the only thing that keeps me and others coming back is the star wars name. The problem is that at this point the IP is being bastardized by a complete lack of self respect on the part of the current dev team. Please take the time to seriously accept that the engine is a farce and that a relaunch of the game under a newer engine is the only way out of the current mess.

 

 

(The real joke is on the trolls who defend this game on the forum, because ultimately I take solace in knowing Disney will eventually find that the quality of this product is garbage and will give one of their own studios the license.)

 

Here is a summary of the problem: C/P from PvP petition.. credit goes to Xorcist

 

 

Name: Xorcist on Sep 25, 2013

Comments: Was on POT5. Was a subscriber until August 27th 2013. No longer playing SWTOR, and have not logged in for close to two months now. Don't plan on logging in anytime soon. Reasons for leaving after supporting the SWTOR project since October 2008: Death by a thousand paper cuts. One of the very last straws was learning that nothing changed when Revan's gear was supposed to be changed to appear more like the classic Revan that we know with better textures+costume design, and not a poorly rendered Inquisitor rip off. The other last straw was the Collectors Edition Vendor did not receive the attention it was promised since the servers went live. The Cartel Market received all the attention and it was clear that BioWare did not give a flying **** about their loyal subscribers and constant stream of posts battering the company for putting the Cartel Market first for many many many months. BioWare defaulted on the agreement that we the consumer would purchase the Collectors Edition and they would regularly supply the vendor with goodies. As we know that it is possible to do so because BioWare has shown us they can by example of the Cartel Market and it's regular updates. They have chosen rather to treat their loyal customers like third class citizens. That of course is unacceptable, and subject to persecution. They charge extra real money to monthly paying Subscribers for things like the barber shop features, emotes, special holiday offerings rather than through in game quests, and one time use color dyes at approximately $20 per unit. Not to mention luring individuals to purchase insane quantities of gambling packs for a chance to get that very rare and special item or dye. Costing a single individual approximately $150 in packs perhaps more depending on the person. BioWare depends on the Cartel Market to carry them on but the Cartel Market is just a life support system keeping the patient (SWTOR) alive however, in a comatose state. This is no way to live. The game engine can not support large quantities of players at once in the same area, The game engine does not like to be touched or modified in any way. Gordon Walton needed the Hero engine because it would get the work done faster and therefore meet tight deadlines. Unfortunately the engine was not ready nor was it tested. Now what is in place running the SWTOR game is something I can only describe as a Frankenstein game engine. Bugs on top of bugs that seem never ending. No server transfer capability. It seems as though features that should be able to be added relatively quickly within reason take an eternity to see the light of day. That coupled with a very basic and stone age style of character creation for a 2011 MMO is extremely sad. The options available to create your character are mostly variations of each other with a very slight difference between them. There is no thought or creativity to the designs that were created for the various different colored humans (species). The options available to change the head, complexion, hair etc.. are 99% ugly and undesirable choices. There was so much that could've been done with this and they decided to leave it as basic and void of creative design as possible. The worlds are super basic in design. The rocks and rock formations look atrocious. The geographical details in the environments are incredibly basic using a cut and paste type of design. Nothing truly separates one world from the other in geographical design. Textures are beyond amateurish and nowhere near professional quality. Landscapes are all unimaginative and in no way inspire awe on any part of any world. Sound music/ambiance/effects quality is not Star Wars worthy. It does not put the player in the environment or make them feel like they are truly in a Star Wars universe. ALL Character animations are static and basic right through to all species and classes. They appear as though, again, an amateur designed them. Colors/light/shade on the worlds and the environment are again amateurishly done. There is no light and shade to speak of. We are given a light source that is not there. Imaginatively created light sources. "Light" sabers do not emit a strong enough source of light and is very square in nature when pressed near a wall. Badly designed light source all around. Areas are again atrociously shaded as though an amateur did the work. The Costume designer(s) should be fired as they obviously do not know what belongs in a Star Wars universe and what does not. I am certain they have never seen the movies or had any contact with any related material concerning Star Wars. Appalling and embarrassing should cover the costume designs in SWTOR from launch to present. Jawa's for example, do not appear nor sound like Jawa's are supposed to in SWTOR. Cantina designs are ridiculous and boring. Music is unappealing and quite honestly stupid sounding, even for a sci-fi fantasy surrounding. With so many disappointments and flaws that have gone live I don't think anyone at that studio has what it takes to create memorable Star Wars experience in an MMO. The teams that created the Force Unleashed series did it right. They were a very talented bunch when it came to design and execution. All of the mentioned above Needs to be addressed to create a positive and memorable long lasting Star Wars MMORPG. Doing so by hiring new designers who know how to design a living breathing Star Wars universe, and also re-designing the game engine from the bottom up is what is expected by a loyal subscriber of this game. In addition to not being taken advantage of and be shown that Subscribers continued business is truly important and not to be taken lightly as it has been since the launch of the Free to Play model. A one time appreciation gift is insulting to a loyal Subscriber. What about next month and the month after that? EVERYTHING... I've seen and experienced through this hollow journey has shown me that BioWare Austin doesn't care about it's customers past whatever they can rip from their pockets and take advantage of them for a virtual piece of candy. Their greed has no bounds or shame. They have become so truly disgusting as a game studio it sickens my stomach just thinking about it.

 

 

/rant

[Arkerus]

More armchair developers. This will be a fun thread.

[Hazed]

Apparently it don't take much to develop a quality environment as demonstrated by the student's video.

 

Just sayin' you can't say "oh this can't be done" when clearly it can, if they use the proper engine.

[Rafaman]

So... this is how we measure an engine's performance... a 60 second youtube vid of a cruise through Nar with no other engine mechanics involved other than floating in the air.

 

Yeah, let me grab my popcorn and get my own armchair.

 

Like how he inoculated himself from the forum defenders there. Yup, that worked. All arguments contradicting the OP are now null and void. That was easy wasn't it?

Edited September 25, 2013 by Rafaman

[Arkerus]

Apparently it don't take much to develop a quality environment as demonstrated by the student's video.

 

Just sayin' you can't say "oh this can't be done" when clearly it can, if they use the proper engine.

 

You toss "engine" around but you don't actually know what it means. If you did, you wouldn't have made this post.

[Loc_n_lol]

It was far too late long before the game was released... I don't know how you can think it's possible...

[Hazed]

You toss "engine" around but you don't actually know what it means. If you did, you wouldn't have made this post.

 

maybe you should do some reading

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_engine

[Andryah]

Apparently it don't take much to develop a quality environment as demonstrated by the student's video.

 

Just sayin' you can't say "oh this can't be done" when clearly it can, if they use the proper engine.

 

I guess I missed the section of the video where the student created an entire MMO and play tested it for us.

 

All I saw was a one minute hack of pixels cut from one environment and slapped into another to make a useless point which someone else has now evolved into a useless thread IMO.

 

Look up what the term "engine" actually means in today's MMO games. Then we can talk some more. While you are at it.. look up MMO too. That youtube =/= a functioning MMO.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Andryah

[Hazed]

It was far too late long before the game was released... I don't know how you can think it's possible...

 

with enough interns anything is possible

[Andryah]

with enough interns anything is possible

 

An MMO of this size and scale is not possible, even with infinite interns.

 

Protip: interns are not the answer to all the worlds challenges.

[DarthOvertone]

I don't know mang. That kid's stuff looked good. But this game already looks good.

 

The problem with the Hero engine isn't that things don't look good. The problem with the Hero engine is the performance issues that occur when more than 4 people enter an area.

[Hazed]

An MMO of this size and scale is not possible, even with infinite interns.

 

Protip: interns are not the answer to all the worlds challenges.

 

these guys are making one and they are not even properly funded

 

 

 

so explain to me how a company like EA/Bioware cannot do it?

[DOHboy]

I guess I missed the section of the video where the student created an entire MMO and play tested it for us.

 

All I saw was a one minute hack of pixels cut from one environment and slapped into another to make a useless point which someone else has now evolved into a useless thread IMO.

 

Look up what the term "engine" actually means in today's MMO games. Then we can talk some more. While you are at it.. look up MMO too. That youtube =/= a functioning MMO.

 

Y game no look like fully rendered trailers?!?

Y we no like 100GB downloads and 8 hour updates?!? for all the high graphic details needed

Y game no run on my 1.2Ghz dual core PC with my 6600GT with these graphics?

[Arkerus]

maybe you should do some reading

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_engine

 

Why would I read something when I already know what it is?

 

The point I was making is the engine is only a small piece of the puzzle.

 

You obviously don't know that. If you did, your post wouldn't be ranting about the engine and then showing a 30 second demo someone made in a completely environment. Its apples and oranges.

 

And by environment I mean, models, textures, sounds, physics, relationships, collisions, entities, whatever.

 

The engine is only a small but important piece.

 

This is why I can't stand armchair development. People post about things they know nothing about.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Arkerus

[Korevas]

You toss "engine" around but you don't actually know what it means. If you did, you wouldn't have made this post.

 

This. The mere thought of just "switching engines" at this stage of the game's lifecycle is completely ridiculous. Only someone without any knowledge in the field at all would even propose something like that. There is no discussion to be had about that.

 

/thread

[Hazed]

I don't know mang. That kid's stuff looked good. But this game already looks good.

 

The problem with the Hero engine isn't that things don't look good. The problem with the Hero engine is the performance issues that occur when more than 4 people enter an area.

 

I know that is why they need to use Cryengine because it would look as good if not better and would not have the all the current drawbacks of the hero engine version they are using.

 

(I don't blame hero engine as much as I blame EA for not spending the cash for the upgraded hero engine)

[DarthOvertone]

I know that is why they need to use Cryengine because it would look as good if not better and would not have the all the current drawbacks of the hero engine version they are using.

 

Why would it not have the drawbacks? That video demonstrated nothing but maps, textures and other cosmetic stuff. There is nothing in your example to indicate the engine could handle any type of load variations from multiple players.

[LordRichardEW]

You do realize bring the game down and quickly switching the game engine would not by any means be a quick or even a cheap process right? It would more then likely require the game to be redesigned completely around the new engine which will take time and they would then have to make sure they can import the play's character data from the previous iteration of the game from the old engine to the new iteration of the game with the new engine. I don't know about you but i would not be happy to find I have lost close to 2 years worth of work on my toons.

 

Now a way they could do this is leave the game up and running while they have the game redone for the new engine and once the new engine is done bring the game down and import the players data to the in iterations of the game. This how ever has its own issues. The main issues would be the cost of running the current game while developing the game on a new engine. I highly doubt EA will allow that. The second issues is we would probably not get any content, or bug patches while this is happening. Think about it why fix bugs or develop new content for the old engine when your building a new one. The third and last issue I will point out is the integration of the players data in to the new engine. The would have to test this extensively to make sure it not only worked but no data was lost.

 

This is just my view take what you will from it.

[Hazed]

Why would I read something when I already know what it is?

 

The point I was making is the engine is only a small piece of the puzzle.

 

You obviously don't know that. If you did, your post wouldn't be ranting about the engine and then showing a 30 second demo someone made in a completely environment. Its apples and oranges.

 

And by environment I mean, models, textures, sounds, physics, relationships, collisions, entities, whatever.

 

The engine is only a small but important piece.

 

This is why I can't stand armchair development. People post about things they know nothing about.

 

the rest is C/p as is demonstrated on every planet and quest throughout SWToR. The engine is the bones, and the current bones suck it does adapt well to new things. They have known this since Alpha.. but hey if you want to act like you know some mystery about the development process by all means. I know for a fact it is not that difficult, it takes man hours sure, but its not difficult. In fact they outsource most of that labor to third world countries since it involves merely copying and pasting.

 

once you have an engine and art assets the rest is cake

[jorill]

You do realize bring the game down and quickly switching the game engine would not by any means be a quick or even a cheap process right? It would more then likely require the game to be redesigned completely around the new engine which will take time and they would then have to make sure they can import the play's character data from the previous iteration of the game from the old engine to the new iteration of the game with the new engine. I don't know about you but i would not be happy to find I have lost close to 2 years worth of work on my toons.

 

Now a way they could do this is leave the game up and running while they have the game redone for the new engine and once the new engine is done bring the game down and import the players data to the in iterations of the game. This how ever has its own issues. The main issues would be the cost of running the current game while developing the game on a new engine. I highly doubt EA will allow that. The second issues is we would probably not get any content, or bug patches while this is happening. Think about it why fix bugs or develop new content for the old engine when your building a new one. The third and last issue I will point out is the integration of the players data in to the new engine. The would have to test this extensively to make sure it not only worked but no data was lost.

 

This is just my view take what you will from it.

 

But, but we could use interns!!!

[Arkerus]

 

once you have an engine and art assets the rest is cake

 

Anything you say from here on out is completely invalidated by that line.

 

I wanted to quote this before you change it to show how little you know about the entire process. As others have said after me, you obviously don't even understand what you are asking.

 

You have no background to even understand what goes into this. That much is obvious from that little statement of yours.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Arkerus

[Hazed]

You do realize bring the game down and quickly switching the game engine would not by any means be a quick or even a cheap process right? It would more then likely require the game to be redesigned completely around the new engine which will take time and they would then have to make sure they can import the play's character data from the previous iteration of the game from the old engine to the new iteration of the game with the new engine. I don't know about you but i would not be happy to find I have lost close to 2 years worth of work on my toons.

 

Now a way they could do this is leave the game up and running while they have the game redone for the new engine and once the new engine is done bring the game down and import the players data to the in iterations of the game. This how ever has its own issues. The main issues would be the cost of running the current game while developing the game on a new engine. I highly doubt EA will allow that. The second issues is we would probably not get any content, or bug patches while this is happening. Think about it why fix bugs or develop new content for the old engine when your building a new one. The third and last issue I will point out is the integration of the players data in to the new engine. The would have to test this extensively to make sure it not only worked but no data was lost.

 

This is just my view take what you will from it.

 

These are valid issues, but I am with them pulling the plug for 6 months or whatever and them getting the game done right. It is obvious this game is a failure, those who believe otherwise are completely delusional. Only thing that I see that can be done here is to reboot the whole game now before its too late.. I know it is a stretch, but if they wish to ride the Star Wars IP longer they will need to make the tough decision and call a time of death on this iteration of SWToR.

 

its the humane thing to do.

[Andryah]

these guys are making one and they are not even properly funded

 

 

 

so explain to me how a company like EA/Bioware cannot do it?

 

LOL.. did not see any MMO in there.. just talk. All I saw as an alpha demonstration of a single character running around and not interacting with anybody or anything. Whooo hoo.

 

Protip: CryengineN is not the engine of choice for MMOs. It's optimized for single player games on consoles. Believe it or not... MMOs and single player games have much different engine requirements. A game engine is much more then just graphics these days.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Andryah

[Sir-Coffee]

It's not possible to switch the engine.

 

*Edit*

 

They would need to remake the game from the ground up and I guarantee you that won't happen.

Edited September 25, 2013 by SithEBM

[Hazed]

Anything you say from here on out is completely invalidated by that line.

 

I wanted to quote this before you change it to show how little you know about the entire process. As others have said after me, you obviously don't even understand what you are asking.

 

You have no background to even understand what goes into this. That much is obvious from that little statement of yours.

 

I am asking them to remake the game plain and simple.

 

yes and they can do it within a 12 month timeline, just copy over existing ideas into an engine that actually does what they need it to do. Nothing magical or crazy about that.. it takes man hours and nothing more, hell they would be helping the economy by hiring all those students to do the work.