Yet another question of why

[theUndead]

So here I am asking the community again for insight on a situation that has just literally happened to me.

 

*Just to be clear I am not looking for sympathy or validation I just wanted to describe what happened and maybe vent a bit*

 

Again I will freely admit I am wrong if the consensus is that I am wrong but I would like some opinions non the less. Okay so I was on Taris leveling my newest alt (Powertech) and there was call for a tank for a heroic 4, so I decided to join. The group consisted of myself being level 38, a Mara being level 34 and a Merc being level 30. Now they asked me if they should bring a healer and I said it might help because the Merc might be a little squishy. So the Merc who was the leader started inviting random people and asking them if they were heals which kind of told me he might be new to the game

 

So while we were waiting for a healer I noticed that the Merc was currently in his combat support cell so I told him that he was in the wrong cell because he wanted to DPS. He then puts his chat in caps and says that he does not have another cell and doesn't know what I am talking about. So I explain it to him again and he eventually finds it.

 

Now after this the Mara asked this Merc if this was the first time he played and he said no to which i replied with why he did not know what the other healing classes were. I was not trolling I was asking genuinely. He then gets offended and says to me that I must shutup and that I ovivously do not know who he is because he has a YT channel. So I said to him why does it matter and why would I care if he has a channel or not to which he says cos he knows what he is talking about blah blah. I then got a little fed up and said to him shut the f up and quit the group and as i was about to put him on ignore he whispers saying that I was probably a crap tank and really trying to get under my skin so I decided to put him on ignore.

 

The funny thing was the Mara whispers me and says he annoyed the next tank who joined and even kicked that other thank for something small. Anyway sorry for the long post I guess I needed to vent a little but really my question was it wrong of me to swear at him? Should I have been more calm? Or more importantly what does one do with these people, I mean I have seen this before in other MMO's and I still struggle with it at times.

 

 

 

Thoughts?

Edited September 18, 2013 by theUndead

[gorstram]

We were all newbies at one point. This crazy cowboy just took offense to the inference that he was new.

[XDoggStrafe]

We've all been at that moment in any game (regardless of it being an MMO or fps or whatever game that requires teamwork to finish with other players). Should you have swore at him? Probably not. Did he deserve it? Well, from your description of his behavior I'd say it was understandable to vent at him like that. Don't let it bug you though OP, some people are just... really defensive about being called (or even implying they're) 'newbs' at anything.

[jedip_enguin]

You meet the most delightful people in MMO's

[aeterno]

God forbid you /w the guy politely telling him about the other cell, giving him a friendly hand.

 

No call him in front of the group. Make him jump hoops, intentionally or not. Scratch your head why he reacts defensively/aggressively. Then cuss and ragequit.

 

You're the salt of the mmo earth OP you really are.

[Zandoezan]

As SWTOR is my first ever MMO ive played, others were Perferct World and TDU series (yes it's very sad), i too often think i know what or how to play in a group just to find out that my way of thinking is wrong. It will work sometimes but there are better ways of completing a mission. I am sure this dude thinks the same.

 

I had a situation where i played with another player who told me i should stop needing certain items and i explained ot him that i could use it for my companion which he corrected me in a failry rude manner. I am sure he thought i was bing a deek, but in actual fact i was clueless. Suffice to say he /ignore [playername] me afterwards which i found stupid cause i was actually interested in why he said what he said. I never (almost never) respond in an angry way but yes sometimes you do feel you should. Our pride tend to intervene.

 

Point is, you dont always know who you playing with and if they understand all the rules of a MMO and keeping a civilized way about it although is the best way, is not always possible. Just try to ignore him and carry on.

 

Edit: ps i am not that guy.

 

For me playing the way some guys play an RPG is weird, walking all over the place creating an fictional character is not something i would do. It's just a game but each to his own.

 

We were all newbies at one point. This crazy cowboy just took offense to the inference that he was new.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Zandoezan

[CrazyMcGee]

OP, in a perfect world, yeah, you'd calmly and politely explain where they are going wrong. But this is real life and sometimes people's attitudes are going to get under your skin.

 

You removed yourself from the group and ended the situation, which is the best you could do. I wouldn't beat yourself up about it. I try and help noobs, but some people don't want help, they just think they know everything. We can all try and take deep, calming breaths and count to 10, but at the end of the day, we are sometimes gonna lose our cool.

 

Don't give it any more thought

[theUndead]

Thanks for the replies everyone. But I need to respond to this.

 

God forbid you /w the guy politely telling him about the other cell, giving him a friendly hand.

 

No call him in front of the group. Make him jump hoops, intentionally or not. Scratch your head why he reacts defensively/aggressively. Then cuss and ragequit.

 

You're the salt of the mmo earth OP you really are.

 

I think your being a little harsh but anyway that is your opinion.

 

First of all I did not call him out I told him politely that he was using the wrong cell because he did not know where his other ones were and I showed him. I also did not make him jump through hoops and where in my post was it implied that I did? It was him who reacted badly to me and it was him who reacted aggressively.

 

I take this kind of thing from people from time to time but this time it as another poster said I lost it and maybe I shouldn't have but regardless I do not go out of my way to make other people feel crap. Yes perhaps I was wrong and I should have handled it better I will admit that.

 

Why do you think I brought this up? it is to ask the community for guidance because if I didn't care I would not have given it another thought but this time it got to me and I wanted some opinions. This of course is yours and that is fine.

[aeterno]

Road to Hadus is paved with good intentions.

 

Weather it was your intention or not trying to give him tips in front of other people was defacto calling him out. It put the spotlight on him and that lead to the other guy asking about his experience and then you wanting him to name healing classes - him jumping the hoops.

 

Yes he reacted poorly by our enlightened standards but he was set up to do so.

 

Reality is a large percentage of players will react either over-defensively or completely shut down and retreat in a situation like that. I can't tell you how many times I've had newbies flake out of 16man ops pugs when people started talking about what went wrong and their name came up, usually without any malice whatsoever behind it. Yes people need a thicker skin and all that but at the end of the day this is an mmo. The mmo player-base isn't exactly the collection of this planets most socially savvy people is it.

 

One has to take that into account. If you go the extra yard and just dispense the relevant tips via whispers, thereby not focusing the entire groups/ops attention on the "noob" these situations end up a lot better for everyone involved. I've never had a bad reaction to whispering someone a tip even if it turned out the guy was more pro than me and doing some weird hybrid stance build testing and well in the rights to tell me to eff off. Which he more likely would have done if I group chat called him out.

 

I've however seen plenty of newbies convinced to stay or come back to ops by friendly whispering them tips and assurances that bad stuff happens and that its not about allocating blame but having fun and improving along the way.

 

Some people are just delicate that way. Rest of us can either accept that fact or life or continue putting pugs on the spot. If you don't have the patience for that type of approach that's totally understandable, I'm not in the mood to hold someones hand ever so softly every night either. I'm just saying it's hardly surprising that a decent portion of folks either bolt it for the hills or explode when in the limelight like that.

 

 

P.S. in an ironic twist of fate my original response is definitely overly aggressive and confrontational, for which I apologize.

Edited September 18, 2013 by aeterno

[oaceen]

some people react negatively even if you're trying to help them. things get misunderstood. it's very easy to do in text-based communication.

 

it can be very frustrating dealing with people this, and believe me, i do know firsthand, but he was simply frustrating to deal with, you actually crossed a line by being confrontational and saying what you did.

some people are new to the game, and also many kids play this game, so you really don't know who is on the other end of the computer or why they act the way that they do.

[Zandoezan]

Wow very good advice, ive learned somethings also. Thx

 

Road to Hadus is paved with good intentions.

 

Weather it was your intention or not trying to give him tips in front of other people was defacto calling him out. It put the spotlight on him and that lead to the other guy asking about his experience and then you wanting him to name healing classes - him jumping the hoops.

 

Yes he reacted poorly by our enlightened standards but he was set up to do so.

 

Reality is a large percentage of players will react either over-defensively or completely shut down and retreat in a situation like that. I can't tell you how many times I've had newbies flake out of 16man ops pugs when people started talking about what went wrong and their name came up, usually without any malice whatsoever behind it. Yes people need a thicker skin and all that but at the end of the day this is an mmo. The mmo player-base isn't exactly the collection of this planets most socially savvy people is it.

 

One has to take that into account. If you go the extra yard and just dispense the relevant tips via whispers, thereby not focusing the entire groups/ops attention on the "noob" these situations end up a lot better for everyone involved. I've never had a bad reaction to whispering someone a tip even if it turned out the guy was more pro than me and doing some weird hybrid stance build testing and well in the rights to tell me to eff off. Which he more likely would have done if I group chat called him out.

 

I've however seen plenty of newbies convinced to stay or come back to ops by friendly whispering them tips and assurances that bad stuff happens and that its not about allocating blame but having fun and improving along the way.

 

Some people are just delicate that way. Rest of us can either accept that fact or life or continue putting pugs on the spot. If you don't have the patience for that type of approach that's totally understandable, I'm not in the mood to hold someones hand ever so softly every night either. I'm just saying it's hardly surprising that a decent portion of folks either bolt it for the hills or explode when in the limelight like that.

[theUndead]

Road to Hadus is paved with good intentions.

 

Weather it was your intention or not trying to give him tips in front of other people was defacto calling him out. It put the spotlight on him and that lead to the other guy wanting him name healing classes - him jumping the hoops.

 

Yes he reacted poorly by our enlightened standards but he was set up to do so.

 

Reality is a large percentage of players will react either over-defensively or completely shut down and retreat in a situation like that. I can't tell you how many times I've had newbies flake out of 16man ops when people started talking about what went wrong and their name came up, usually without any malice whatsoever behind it. Yes people need a thicker skin and all that but at the end of the day this is an mmo. The mmo player-base isn't exactly the collection of this planets most socially savvy people is it.

 

One has to take that into account. If you go the extra yard and just dispense the relevant tips via whispers, thereby not focusing the entire groups/ops attention on the "noob" these situations end up a lot better for everyone involved. I've never had a bad reaction to whispering someone a tip even if it turned out the guy was more pro than me and doing some weird hybrid stance build testing and well in the rights to tell me to eff off. Which he more likely would have done if I group chat called him out.

 

I've however seen plenty of newbies convinced to stay or come back to ops by friendly whispering them tips and assurances that bad stuff happens and that's not about allocating blame but having fun and improving along the way.

 

Some people are just delicate that way. Rest of us can either accept that fact or life or continue putting pugs on the spot. If you don't have the patience for that type of approach that's totally understandable, I'm not in the mood to hold someones hand ever so softly every night either. I'm just saying it's hardly surprising that a decent portion of folks either bolt it for the hills or explode when in the limelight like that.

 

You make a fair point. But what your describing is a how things should be done in an ideal world. This is not an ideal world and sometimes people lose their patience this just happened to me one of those times for me.

 

I also feel that you that your assumption that all mmo players are somehow a group of nasty players is not true. Yes this is an mmo but it does not mean that just because you deal with people that you need to be on track and understanding all the time. To me this is simply impossible.

 

For the record and this is the second time I am saying this I do not abuse other players nor am I unhelpful I just lost my cool which as I have said was perhaps the wrong thing to do. I do want to add however that your point about enlightened standards maybe true and that maybe the cause of his aggression. However that still does not excuse it.

 

You mention how I should have used whispers instead of group chat to tell him the ropes and in hindsight perhaps it might have been better but I do fail to see how that would have been better than group chat, baring in mind the other player was asking gentle questions as well so it does fall entirely on me.

 

Furthermore after I left he processed to whisper ME and carry on the argument. Yet ,I do agree that we should strive for mature conclusions rather than aggressive ones but as I have stated this is not always possible. The bottom line is this, people generally in my view are helpful and patience but sometimes people refuse to take help and react badly and sometimes these people get under my skin.

 

I fully accept the fact I could have handled it batter but in this case I just sort of snapped. But do not presume to think that just because you strive for always doing the right thing with groups, that it is always possible. The truth it isn't at least not in mmo games. In reality I do not mind how how much or little a player knows so the whole noob thing does not hold water with me because I was once a noob too.

 

Finally and I said I wouldn't do this, but I have to ask was calling me the salt of mmo players really necessary? I mean we just talking aren't we?

 

Edit: Look, in the end you are wise and I did learn something but try to see it from my point of view as well.

Edited September 18, 2013 by theUndead

[aeterno]

You make a fair point. But what your describing is a how things should be done in an ideal world. This is not an ideal world and sometimes people lose their patience this just happened to me one of those times for me.

 

I also feel that you that your assumption that all mmo players are somehow a group of nasty players is not true. Yes this is an mmo but it does not mean that just because you deal with people that you need to be on track and understanding all the time. To me this is simply impossible.

 

For the record and this is the second time I am saying this I do not abuse other players nor am I unhelpful I just lost my cool which as I have said was perhaps the wrong thing to do. I do want to add however that your point about enlightened standards maybe true and that maybe the cause of his aggression. However that still does not excuse it.

 

You mention how I should have used whispers instead of group chat to tell him the ropes and in hindsight perhaps it might have been better but I do fail to see how that would have been better than group chat, baring in mind the other player was asking gentle questions as well so it does fall entirely on me.

 

Furthermore after I left he processed to whisper ME and carry on the argument. Yet ,I do agree that we should strive for mature conclusions rather than aggressive ones but as I have stated this is not always possible. The bottom line is this, people generally in my view are helpful and patience but sometimes people refuse to take help and react badly and sometimes these people get under my skin.

 

I fully accept the fact I could have handled it batter but in this case I just sort of snapped. But do not presume to think that just because you strive for always doing the right thing with groups, that it is always possible. The truth it isn't at least not in mmo games. In reality I do not mind how how much or little a player knows so the whole noob thing does not hold water with me because I was once a noob too.

 

Finally and I said I wouldn't do this, but I have to ask was calling me the salt of mmo players really necessary? I mean we just talking aren't we?

 

Edit: Look, in the end you are wise and I did learn something but try to see it from my point of view as well.

 

Salt of the earth is actually a good thing if I know my idioms right, but yea I edited in a PS cos in the end you're right too, as I've amply proved myself... people snap and stuff isn't always dealt with and communicated optimally.

 

All we can do is to strive to coexist as smoothly as possible and down some bosses for lewt heh.

[theUndead]

some people react negatively even if you're trying to help them. things get misunderstood. it's very easy to do in text-based communication.

 

it can be very frustrating dealing with people this, and believe me, i do know firsthand, but he was simply frustrating to deal with, you actually crossed a line by being confrontational and saying what you did.

some people are new to the game, and also many kids play this game, so you really don't know who is on the other end of the computer or why they act the way that they do.

 

I agree that I crossed a line but in my post I did mention that this person was aggressive to me first. I just should have handled it better and not have reacted so badly. Your point is well made and I thank you for your input.

[Nempo]

Salt of the earth is actually a good thing if I know my idioms right, but yea I edited in a PS cos in the end you're right too, as I've amply proved myself... people snap and stuff isn't always dealt with and communicated optimally.

 

All we can do is to strive to coexist as smoothly as possible and down some bosses for lewt heh.

 

"Salt of the Earth" how we know and use it today is originally an Amish saying, and is indeed a very good thing. Back in old times salt was hard to get (hint: you NEED salt to stay alive, we get this in our daily food today but it wasn't always thus) and quite often a person would work just to get paid in salt.

 

I'll also say I never whisper when giving advice unless it is advice for someone from general chat. You are in a group and others may have a different viable way of doing something I don't use. In the OP's case...asking the person to name healer classes is a great way to see if they are even aware of who can heal. I mean...the person was just randomly inviting people to the group then asking if they could heal...which in itself is VERY rude behavior, or this is how it read in anycase.

 

As for being immediately put into a defensive stance...well...only those with thin skin, believe they can't posibly be wrong, or genuinely just don't want to admit to being new...choose respond this way. It is the natural response of someone who is painfully aware they are in the wrong and/or are loathe to admit to being a new player. Someone aware they are right and knowledgable respond nuetrally and the individuals that will only cause problems respond aggressively.

[Zandoezan]

Erm as far as i know Jesus mentioned Salf of the Earth first Matthew 5:13 not sure about the Amish being first.

 

"Salt of the Earth" how we know and use it today is originally an Amish saying, and is indeed a very good thing. Back in old times salt was hard to get (hint: you NEED salt to stay alive, we get this in our daily food today but it wasn't always thus) and quite often a person would work just to get paid in salt.

 

I'll also say I never whisper when giving advice unless it is advice for someone from general chat. You are in a group and others may have a different viable way of doing something I don't use. In the OP's case...asking the person to name healer classes is a great way to see if they are even aware of who can heal. I mean...the person was just randomly inviting people to the group then asking if they could heal...which in itself is VERY rude behavior, or this is how it read in anycase.

 

As for being immediately put into a defensive stance...well...only those with thin skin, believe they can't posibly be wrong, or genuinely just don't want to admit to being new...choose respond this way. It is the natural response of someone who is painfully aware they are in the wrong and/or are loathe to admit to being a new player. Someone aware they are right and knowledgable respond nuetrally and the individuals that will only cause problems respond aggressively.

[Corsiero]

You might have the inclination to feel that you over reacted. I feel you reacted rather fairly. Time is money, and I'm not going to waste it babysitting someone who refuses to consider the advice given. Might have been better just to drop group if he gets annoyed by the suggestion and saying it in group chat is fine so the other players would now be aware they too might be wasting their time grouped up with him. Don't concern yourself with incompetent players who refuse to learn.

[horrorfaneightys]

I do think whispering helpful info is better than putting it in group chat. The way I see it, if you were in public, and a stranger noticed that you had your fly undone, would you rather they shout it loud enough so that everyone around you then notices it too, or would you rather they take you aside and discreetly point it out to you?

 

But I totally understand you losing your cool with them.

[Gomla]

Sadly, it's incidents like this that remind me why I stopped pugging in MMO's many years ago.

 

I only group with people I know (real life friends that happen to play the same game not people i've joined a guild with ... who, in my opinion, are still a pug as I don't know them).

 

Which is a shame because no-one I know plays this game.

[Eillack]

God forbid you /w the guy politely telling him about the other cell, giving him a friendly hand.

 

No call him in front of the group. Make him jump hoops, intentionally or not. Scratch your head why he reacts defensively/aggressively. Then cuss and ragequit.

 

You're the salt of the mmo earth OP you really are.

 

You were that "new player" weren't you?

[justagirlplaying]

One of the reasons I don't help anyone that is not on friends list or in my guild in mmo's. Sometimes you see someone needing stuff in fp's and I ask them why are they needing, or if they need something that does not work with their class I will tell them about their stats and no, it's not calling them out telling them they are a noob or whatever (well they are a noob but I guess you can't call them that anymore, to many people with winner attitude and special boy/girl syndrome) is actually trying to stop something before this person even starts the game, because if they stay this way till level 55 and nobody has taught what the need and greed are then you have one big problem ahead. To the OP you did nothing wrong, pointing out something like that is not mean or being a DB in anyway, if the guy thought he was some sort of awesome sauce and thought he was right and didn't wan't to learn then that's his problem.

[PorsaLindahl]

The OP reminds me of a guy I saw on fleet once. This guy was a level 28 gunslinger and his clothing looked "off" to me. Not bad, but it just didn't seem right (this was Pre-CM and social armors were all light armor at the time). So I inspected him and saw that he was wearing strength, willpower clothing and aim implants/earpiece. The only cunning pieces he had was his weapons.

 

At first I was going to just let him be, but decided that it may be a young player and he really didn't have a clue as to what equipment he should be using for his class. So I sent him a whisper telling him that while his choice of clothing looked cool, he should replace his armor, implants and earpiece with cunning items. He promptly responded with "F-off!"

 

I just LOL'd and went on with what I was doing and forgot all about the guy until now. Maybe he eventually learned, but if not, oh well. I tried.

 

Some people are completely clueless and no matter how much you want to help them, they see see it as telling them how to play and take offense to it. I don't even bother now.

[AlrikFassbauer]

i too often think i know what or how to play in a group just to find out that my way of thinking is wrong.

 

The sad thing is, that there is ALWAYS someone who knows it better.

 

You can only loose.

[aeterno]

You were that "new player" weren't you?

 

09-er please, don't embarrass yourself newbie.

 

It's called empathy.

[Zandoezan]

Wow sound similar to what happened ot me on Tattooine. A female player wispered me to tell me that my smuggler armour / earpiece etc. was wrong and that i should be gettting cunning/endurance which i thank her for adn set off to change.

 

Things are now looking better for my smuggler. Here's to you dear mistery Lady (or dude)

 

Edit: Thing is if you have now given up helping there are those of us who can benefit from advice of more experienced MMO players. I myself need it from time to time as you have read above.

 

The OP reminds me of a guy I saw on fleet once. This guy was a level 28 gunslinger and his clothing looked "off" to me. Not bad, but it just didn't seem right (this was Pre-CM and social armors were all light armor at the time). So I inspected him and saw that he was wearing strength, willpower clothing and aim implants/earpiece. The only cunning pieces he had was his weapons.

 

At first I was going to just let him be, but decided that it may be a young player and he really didn't have a clue as to what equipment he should be using for his class. So I sent him a whisper telling him that while his choice of clothing looked cool, he should replace his armor, implants and earpiece with cunning items. He promptly responded with "F-off!"

 

I just LOL'd and went on with what I was doing and forgot all about the guy until now. Maybe he eventually learned, but if not, oh well. I tried.

 

Some people are completely clueless and no matter how much you want to help them, they see see it as telling them how to play and take offense to it. I don't even bother now.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Zandoezan