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Time to ungimp assassins

mmjarec

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mmjarec

mmjarec

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It's obvious this thread is a waste of time, seeing how it's in the wrong forum and several other users have proved you wrong. Have fun being wrong, chicken little or whatever your goofy mcdonald's sandwich name is.

 

How exactly have you proven me wrong with something other than your opinion?

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Elfa

Elfa

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It's obvious this thread is a waste of time, seeing how it's in the wrong forum and several other users have proved you wrong. Have fun being wrong, chicken little or whatever your goofy mcdonald's sandwich name is.

 

You aren't the forum police man, back off and do something else with your time.

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Vaerah

Vaerah

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Did you know that what this user just said is complete B.S.?

If you're not in a guild and not queueing up via group finder and trying to get a group via general chat, that's your problem.

You see, if you queue up as a Tank in Group Finder, while trying your hardest to be a tank, that's okay to do.

If you're in a guild and grouping with them for Flashpoints, it wont matter if you're a Shadow/Sin tank as long as you know how to tank period.

If you give up in WZ's because you see 2-3 Shadows/Sins on your team, than that's your fault for not being a team player and being a tiny baby man.

 

My Main was a Marauder and now it's my Shadow. My only regret is not being able to Dual Wield on my Shadow.

 

Queue as tank in group finder and people just don't join. And those who join an already started instance (i.e. because a member disconnected for 10 minutes) join in, see a sin tank, curse and leave.

 

As for "give up in WZs", no I don't give up. The other sins inevitably and ALWAYS go to get farmed to the center while I sit bored at at node and get 5-6 medals tops (no attack at all) and end with 50 valor.

 

And sometimes I still get more medals with my 5-6 than them who show 16 deaths, 50k damage done and 3-4 medals.

 

Instead, this is the truth: another picture of how it goes:

 

Shadowlands is a rather large server where I play a BH as a main. I decided to pull my 55 dps assassin out of hiding even with all the negative press. I asked not only my guild, who clear all HM and partial NM content, but another well known raiding guild that clears it all about my sin's best rotation. Their responses were identical...REROLL. They said noone uses sin dps in ops period. Sorry Bioware but it's time to give sassy dps some attention...I'd sure like to start playing her again.:confused:
Edited by Vaerah
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gorstram

gorstram

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Yeah all i read was a post that there will be class changes. Last time that happened sins got nerfed and i know from buoware dont beleive it till you see it. So thats likely not going to happen or ne a nerf just like thier other posts that have been outright lies

 

Well Mmjarec, looks like you'll hear something next week. I'm hoping it's not all bad news.

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mmjarec

mmjarec

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Well Mmjarec, looks like you'll hear something next week. I'm hoping it's not all bad news.

 

I know me too. Their track record makes me nervous though and especially when they said there were "changes" instead of upgrades or fixes. I dont see why they postpone something before it even gets off the ground its a horrid start because usally a few weeks turn into a few months

 

What is their adversion to just being honest at least say why ts postponed or what preliminary results you have. Saying there are going to be changes but postponed makes it sound like they are clueless at that point just keepcyour mouths shut until theres more than something pointless to say because we e been down this road many times with bad results soxexcuse my skepticism

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gorstram

gorstram

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I know me too. Their track record makes me nervous though and especially when they said there were "changes" instead of upgrades or fixes. I dont see why they postpone something before it even gets off the ground its a horrid start because usally a few weeks turn into a few months

 

What is their adversion to just being honest at least say why ts postponed or what preliminary results you have. Saying there are going to be changes but postponed makes it sound like they are clueless at that point just keepcyour mouths shut until theres more than something pointless to say because we e been down this road many times with bad results soxexcuse my skepticism

 

I wholeheartedly believe they are trying to avoid another "Heal to full," moment.

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OmenQ

OmenQ

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Saying there are going to be changes but postponed makes it sound like they are clueless at that point just keepcyour mouths shut until theres more than something pointless to say because we e been down this road many times with bad results soxexcuse my skepticism

 

That's not what was said. What he said was that they are postponing the second round of class specific questions.

They are taking the feedback from the first round, and will be implementing some class changes. After those changes, they will open up another round of discussion. They can't comment on the possible changes yet, because they haven't been decided. Most likely, they are still brainstorming ideas and doing internal testing on those ideas. Once they find some ideas that work, they will tell us.

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mmjarec

mmjarec

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That's not what was said. What he said was that they are postponing the second round of class specific questions.

They are taking the feedback from the first round, and will be implementing some class changes. After those changes, they will open up another round of discussion. They can't comment on the possible changes yet, because they haven't been decided. Most likely, they are still brainstorming ideas and doing internal testing on those ideas. Once they find some ideas that work, they will tell us.

 

I know they arent finalized but they could release what they are considering for discussion. I dont know what its so hard for them not to put tje cart before the horse. This thing had a timeframe and ppl trusted tjat and now its pushed back with no eta so it could be forever like t has before.

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Avicii

Avicii

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A perfect photograph of the situation.

 

Did you know that as assassin is hard to get a spot even in non heroic FPs? Because the stigma and the infamy are so huge even low content players don't want them around.

 

I have the same reaction: when I see a sin tank in PvE I know we'll wipe. When I see 2-3 in a WZ I know we'll lose for sure. My main is (was) a shadow, now a sniper and the only blame is to have switched so late.

 

Myself from page 8:

Here's the problem with this thread it doesn't start out articulating the issues, which to be taken seriously it should. The community is tired and sees the multiple threads across forums asking for as whining, they see us in regs being regstars blowing up bads and blowing all stuns to get a quick kill and they hate it. There is no sympathy really. If we get more substained in Deception we will loss burst in the end whether its at the same time or later. The best bet is to ask for madness to be changed for PvE DPS since it has little burst compared to Decep.

 

The other issue is people that play the class are prone to exaggeration now when they really have no idea they just jump on the QQ train. 1 poster, who posts a lot negatively, asking for buffs didn't even know what all the abilities are. Others say they can't tank Hard mode 50 FPs lol. We need to stop that and stay to the facts and prove the point through hard factual evidence. Stretching the truth will get us no where.

 

I am not talking about you OP but your thread would recieve a better response if it sticks to the basics and evidence. However we will end up losing some things for whatever we gain.

 

Anyway trolls troll on an op rage on, good luck on your quest.

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Vaerah

Vaerah

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Myself from page 8:

 

You are too young to the MMO industry.

 

Whining - expecially in PvP games which SWTOR is not - follows a gaussian around the real classes performance.

When some classes start getting flooded it's not because their players are genetically impaired but because that class performs bad: either it's just sub par or its skill requirements are out of whack compared with the other classes or because it's just useless (typical of hybrid "born for utility, doomed to futility" classes).

 

A simple counter check is this: if the same players also play other classes and find them otrageously easy or effective or "must have" etc. etc. then there's the possibility of a "just inferior class" case.

 

In my personal case, I can't avoid noticing how shadow / sin is a fun class to play *in a vacuum* but compared to my other class it's just savagely inferior: less wanted, less performing, harder to play (which is not a bad thing IF it brings superior results) but not in a "more skill to play" but in a "badly designed rotation with clashing and mismatched procs" (see the 3 official shadows questions thread, I am not crazy if this issue made there).

 

It's just a class that used to have good mechanics but was OP and they not only nerfed it but also broken its gameplay. It's not just "less" it's also somewhat "broken", which are two different concepts.

 

You can have all the skill you want but if a boss 2 shots you... it just 2 shots you and that's it.

 

You can enjoy the "lone ganking wolf" gameplay but if the whole game does not support it (and keeps distancing from it) your class built around lone wolf gameplay is going to lose contact from the game.

 

Does any of this talk about "BUFF DPS!!!!" ? No. If it was just DPS, then it'd be easy to correct. A little % here and there and voilà. But it's not so easy.

SWTOR is a game approaching a "middle life mass rebalance update" stage like most MMOs do after some expansions yet SWTOR developers are unable to do it. This is even worse and perfectly in the "General Forum" topic to talk about, because neglecting a class is bad, neglecting to keep updated the whole game as it evolves leads to hundreds of thousands dropped subscriptions. Something SWTOR, sadly, is not new to. And no, its developers were not right, even if they have the numbers and the statistics. Had they been right and smart then we'd have 30 packed servers and no shortage of budget.

 

Finally, about the "utility" excuse: I have played up to 16 men and hundreds of WZs... not once in my life anybody told they brought me because of this mythic "utility". Actually, shadow is the only class I have played where I had to *find excuses* to be invited or prove I could "do it". My other two classes get things for granted, no questions asked.

Edited by Vaerah
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mmjarec

mmjarec

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You are too young to the MMO industry.

 

Whining - expecially in PvP games which SWTOR is not - follows a gaussian around the real classes performance.

When some classes start getting flooded it's not because their players are genetically impaired but because that class performs bad: either it's just sub par or its skill requirements are out of whack compared with the other classes or because it's just useless (typical of hybrid "born for utility, doomed to futility" classes).

 

A simple counter check is this: if the same players also play other classes and find them otrageously easy or effective or "must have" etc. etc. then there's the possibility of a "just inferior class" case.

 

In my personal case, I can't avoid noticing how shadow / sin is a fun class to play *in a vacuum* but compared to my other class it's just savagely inferior: less wanted, less performing, harder to play (which is not a bad thing IF it brings superior results) but not in a "more skill to play" but in a "badly designed rotation with clashing and mismatched procs" (see the 3 official shadows questions thread, I am not crazy if this issue made there).

 

It's just a class that used to have good mechanics but was OP and they not only nerfed it but also broken its gameplay. It's not just "less" it's also somewhat "broken", which are two different concepts.

 

You can have all the skill you want but if a boss 2 shots you... it just 2 shots you and that's it.

 

You can enjoy the "lone ganking wolf" gameplay but if the whole game does not support it (and keeps distancing from it) your class built around lone wolf gameplay is going to lose contact from the game.

 

Does any of this talk about "BUFF DPS!!!!" ? No. If it was just DPS, then it'd be easy to correct. A little % here and there and voilà. But it's not so easy.

SWTOR is a game approaching a "middle life mass rebalance update" stage like most MMOs do after some expansions yet SWTOR developers are unable to do it. This is even worse and perfectly in the "General Forum" topic to talk about, because neglecting a class is bad, neglecting to keep updated the whole game as it evolves leads to hundreds of thousands dropped subscriptions. Something SWTOR, sadly, is not new to. And no, its developers were not right, even if they have the numbers and the statistics. Had they been right and smart then we'd have 30 packed servers and no shortage of budget.

 

Finally, about the "utility" excuse: I have played up to 16 men and hundreds of WZs... not once in my life anybody told they brought me because of this mythic "utility". Actually, shadow is the only class I have played where I had to *find excuses* to be invited or prove I could "do it". My other two classes get things for granted, no questions asked.

 

Exactly. I play a sorc mara and sin and going from sin to sorc i could play sorc eith one hand wfh eyes closed. Its amazing hiw many ppl are outright hostile when all u want is viability that they themselves have. Obviously they want to keep their class superior. In all honest i cant remember a game that had such a fubar and ignored class for so long

 

 

Booware is exceptional in its ineptness to function on a high level in the mmo space stick to single player plz

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JohnnyGun

JohnnyGun

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I've been keeping up with this thread for some time now. Never posting just lurking in the shadows, admittedly laughing at some of the squabbles you've all gotten in to :p

 

But I figured I would finally offer my two cents. When I first started to play this game, I knew I wanted to play a stealth class. And ever since phantom menace I have been in love with the saber-staff (I was 11-12 when it came out). So Jedi Shadow seemed like a no-brainer.

 

And I enjoyed playing it all the way to 55. Sneaking up on mobs or other players, some cool moves; everything was cool. But then I got to end-game...and my God was I disappointed.

 

Now before you hit reply so you can type "L2P" /5char (lol) please know this; I am a competent player. I will never claim to be the best because I simply do not put THAT much time into the game. However, I have several 55s including a Gunslinger that is rocking all 72s with full augmentation. My Shadow possesses the same quality gear and yet he just CAN NOT touch the DPS my Gunslinger can put up.

 

The creator of this thread did post some parser data IIRC, but I wouldn't expect everyone to take that as undeniable proof. Instead, what I would look at is the countless testimonies from actual players who swear on their lightsabers/blasters that Shadow/Assassin needs some help.

 

I have actually been turned away by Operations Groups a few times solely because of the fact that I was a Shadow. This just doesn't seem right to me...

 

Anyway, TL;DR: Shadows/Assassins need a bit of help as far as I'm concerned.

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Red_Cruiser

Red_Cruiser

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I've been keeping up with this thread for some time now. Never posting just lurking in the shadows, admittedly laughing at some of the squabbles you've all gotten in to :p

 

But I figured I would finally offer my two cents. When I first started to play this game, I knew I wanted to play a stealth class. And ever since phantom menace I have been in love with the saber-staff (I was 11-12 when it came out). So Jedi Shadow seemed like a no-brainer.

 

And I enjoyed playing it all the way to 55. Sneaking up on mobs or other players, some cool moves; everything was cool. But then I got to end-game...and my God was I disappointed.

 

Now before you hit reply so you can type "L2P" /5char (lol) please know this; I am a competent player. I will never claim to be the best because I simply do not put THAT much time into the game. However, I have several 55s including a Gunslinger that is rocking all 72s with full augmentation. My Shadow possesses the same quality gear and yet he just CAN NOT touch the DPS my Gunslinger can put up.

 

The creator of this thread did post some parser data IIRC, but I wouldn't expect everyone to take that as undeniable proof. Instead, what I would look at is the countless testimonies from actual players who swear on their lightsabers/blasters that Shadow/Assassin needs some help.

 

I have actually been turned away by Operations Groups a few times solely because of the fact that I was a Shadow. This just doesn't seem right to me...

 

Anyway, TL;DR: Shadows/Assassins need a bit of help as far as I'm concerned.

 

All the classes need buffs if you are simply going to compare them to gunslingers. If this game was smart and had an auto attack they could find ways to adjust white damage over an extended encounter for PvE; but there is no way they can simply up Assassin/Shadow damage and not break them completely in PvP.

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mmjarec

mmjarec

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All the classes need buffs if you are simply going to compare them to gunslingers. If this game was smart and had an auto attack they could find ways to adjust white damage over an extended encounter for PvE; but there is no way they can simply up Assassin/Shadow damage and not break them completely in PvP.

 

Hes comparing them to slingers, i however have compared them to every class and they just dont stack up against anyone. Saying it cant be balanced because no auto attack is a copout. There are multiple ways they could increase utility and dps or one or the other.

 

Moving aorund a few talents and or buffing some is the easiest. Revert back some changes tjat gimped is or buff existing ones. Give us back tumult make it usable in pvp and increase the timer. Make maul do more damage et c etc. countless ways to do it

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Reno_Tarshil

Reno_Tarshil

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Hes comparing them to slingers, i however have compared them to every class and they just dont stack up against anyone. Saying it cant be balanced because no auto attack is a copout. There are multiple ways they could increase utility and dps or one or the other.

 

Moving aorund a few talents and or buffing some is the easiest. Revert back some changes tjat gimped is or buff existing ones. Give us back tumult make it usable in pvp and increase the timer. Make maul do more damage et c etc. countless ways to do it

 

What would Tumult fix? Bosses can't be stunned for it to be used...

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mmjarec

mmjarec

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What would Tumult fix? Bosses can't be stunned for it to be used...

 

Seeing how sins are more even on bosses obviously it would buff other areas of combat and give the utilty everyone wrongly assumes they have. And for bosses add something else. It will probably take more than one change to fix them. Who said yu could only make one change at a time

 

More utility in pvp and more mauls equals more viability and options

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Reno_Tarshil

Reno_Tarshil

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Seeing how sins are more even on bosses obviously it would buff other areas of combat and give the utilty everyone wrongly assumes they have. And for bosses add something else. It will probably take more than one change to fix them. Who said yu could only make one change at a time

 

More utility in pvp and more mauls equals more viability and options

 

You can't bring an ability back just to completely change it. And assuming they did bring it back, they would need to bring back the other skills just like it for other classes to be fair.

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mmjarec

mmjarec

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You can't bring an ability back just to completely change it. And assuming they did bring it back, they would need to bring back the other skills just like it for other classes to be fair.

 

Why would they habe to bring bakc another ability? And why could t they change it ? I dont see any problem with timult having a longer cd and being usable in pvp. Everyone will whine cause tjey dont wan another class getting buffed but tjat hardly makes them op

If you dontclike tumlt tjen pick ssomething else

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