Time to ungimp assassins

[oaceen]

What I would consider a true cc is 60 second stopping something for 6 seconds I wouldn't consider it a cc tool. What good is it situational at best maybe fleeing a fight.

 

i misread what you were saying. it is a cc tool, and actually a very powerful one since it's an AOE. you have to look at class comparisons holistically, not point-for-point. the grass-is-always-greener approach doesn't really work in this game, because not everyone gets the same CC tools or even the same mezzes.

 

for example, vanguards get no mezzes at all and has no CC that lasts longer than 4s

their AOE cc is similar to your intimidating shout, but only lasts 2.5s (with a PvP set bonus to increase it by .5s), but unlike yours, stuns for the duration and is not broken on damage

and as i said, they don't get any mezzes, but they get a single-target 4s stun, and they have a baseline pull

Edited September 16, 2013 by oaceen

[Reno_Tarshil]

If i dont know much the. You know nothing. Every class gets at least a snare which is cc

 

On parses you cant rely on all four buffs because in "real" gameplay not everyone has all four. Brish up on your definition of cc its not just sap. Intimdating roar being an example

 

Say your right and not every class hass cc. So why arent we on par with the classes that do

 

It boils down to being able to mitigate incoming damage thats essentially what it is. And if roll gets you out of range or heal mitigates damage its just as good as sap that has to be used out of combat

 

You are sayig low dps is justified with an ability that is not usuable in pvp and highly situational in pve? Sheesh no brainer id give it up for constantly higher dps like other classes ave c that also happen to have cc

 

So maybee its you that dont know the classes i never claimed to i claimed to know about sins maras and sorcs ops and juggs. Obviously you know nothing of pvp because there is no such thing is face to face 1v1 pvp in warzones

 

A Snare is not a CC, it is a Root or Slow. A CC is something that completely incapatitates your character and prevents you from doing any action with that character unless it's removed. Meanwhile a Snare merely slows you down from movement while still allowing you to move and perform other actions. Intimidating Roar is a short duration stun and not a CC.

 

A CC is also an ability that lasts a minute in duration and completely locks them out of a fight. Not every class has an ability like this. Still disproven.

 

If you don't have all 4 buffs for your legacy, that's all on the player for not playing thru the stories and gimping their solo play. Not that it's required.

 

What ability isn't usuable in PvP? Dispatch/Vicious Throw? Wow and you say I don't know anything about PvP when you obviously don't.

 

One last thing: No 1v1's in PvP? Maybe you don't PvP well enough on your Sin to sneak around and gank someone unaware.

 

Your apparent need of L2P is becoming more evident with each response you post.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Reno_Tarshil

[ImperialSun]

If i dont know much the. You know nothing.most Every class gets at least a snare which is cc

 

On parses you cant rely on all four buffs because in "real" gameplay not everyone has all four. Brish up on your definition of cc its not just sap. Intimdating roar being an example

 

Say your right and not every class hass cc. So why arent we on par with the classes that do

 

It boils down to being able to mitigate incoming damage thats essentially what it is. And if roll gets you out of range or heal mitigates damage its just as good as sap that has to be used out of combat

 

You are sayig low dps is justified with an ability that is not usuable in pvp and highly situational in pve? Sheesh no brainer id give it up for constantly higher dps like other classes ave c that also happen to have cc

 

So maybee its you that dont know the classes i never claimed to i claimed to know about sins maras and sorcs ops and juggs. Obviously you know nothing of pvp because there is no such thing is face to face 1v1 pvp in warzones

 

Your argument makes no sense to say a ranged class with less detriment from their range is ok to do so much more insane dmg that someone who has to melee and is guaranteed to wipe

 

Like i said it doesnt matter anyone its not a discussion if they are gimp. They are and torparse proves it. Nobody with a brain beleives your cherry picked parses when they can go do a general search on their own and see this

 

Sins 2800 dps

Other classes 3000 plus dps

 

Thats balance!!

 

So going by your own numbers, the difference is 6.5%? BW stated they are working towards 5% variance in dps between the classes and by YOUR numbers in YOUR post above, the variance is 6.5%?

 

3000 - 6.5% = 2,805

 

So if they tweak for that extra 1.5% then you are golden right?

 

Lol...1.5% does not equal the entire class being gimped now does it?

 

Driz

[mmjarec]

A Snare is not a CC, it is a Root or Slow. A CC is something that completely incapatitates your character and prevents you from doing any action with that character unless it's removed. Meanwhile a Snare merely slows you down from movement while still allowing you to move and perform other actions. Intimidating Roar is a short duration stun and not a CC.

 

A CC is also an ability that lasts a minute in duration and completely locks them out of a fight. Not every class has an ability like this. Still disproven.

 

If you don't have all 4 buffs for your legacy, that's all on the player for not playing thru the stories and gimping their solo play. Not that it's required.

 

What ability isn't usuable in PvP? Dispatch/Vicious Throw? Wow and you say I don't know anything about PvP when you obviously don't.

 

One last thing: No 1v1's in PvP? Maybe you don't PvP well enough on your Sin to sneak around and gank someone unaware.

 

Your apparent need of L2P is becoming more evident with each response you post.

 

You cant even understand what im saying so i give up. All you do is hurl insults and try to pass your opinion as fact. Comprende english. Crowd control. Slowing is a control mechanism thus is a cc. Look it up

 

You just avoid facts that make your inconsistencies stand out and ignore the rest

 

If as you say sins are utility, which they arent, and have low dps because the can sap someone out of combat then shouldnt other classes that also have a cc not do 500 dps more? Why assassins so low? Oh bcuz the have a sap. But then again so do other classes that do more dps so. Boom there went your argument

 

Either sins get buffed or all the other "utility" classes with cc should get nerfed. That would follow your line of thinking. If it could be called thinking.

 

2800 vs 3400 is more than a 15% difference no wonder your fake parses are so obviously a crock of bs

Edited September 16, 2013 by mmjarec
Add

[Reno_Tarshil]

You cant even understand what im saying so i give up. All you do is hurl insults and try to pass your opinion as fact. Comprende english. Crowd control. Slowing is a control mechanism thus is a cc. Look it up

 

You just avoid facts that make your inconsistencies stand out and ignore the rest

 

If as you say sins are utility, which they arent, and have low dps because the can sap someone out of combat then shouldnt other classes that also have a cc not do 500 dps more? Why assassins so low? Oh bcuz the have a sap. But then again so do other classes that do more dps so. Boom there went your argument

 

Either sins get buffed or all the other "utility" classes with cc should get nerfed. That would follow your line of thinking. If it could be called thinking.

 

Good, you give up. Maybe this thread can die now.

 

Meanwhile, Sins are fine.

[oaceen]

So going by your own numbers, the difference is 6.5%? BW stated they are working towards 5% variance in dps between the classes and by YOUR numbers in YOUR post above, the variance is 6.5%?

 

3000 - 6.5% = 2,805

 

So if they tweak for that extra 1.5% then you are golden right?

 

Lol...1.5% does not equal the entire class being gimped now does it?

 

Driz

actually the OP has fluctuated between 20%, 15%, and 10% as bioware's difference goal, which makes all of this rigmarole all the more ridiculous imo.

[ImperialSun]

actually the OP has fluctuated between 20%, 15%, and 10% as bioware's difference goal, which makes all of this rigmarole all the more ridiculous imo.

 

I am truly shocked by this turn of events ;p

 

Driz

[mmjarec]

Too bad its not true you know 10% is within 15% and 15% is within 20. Regardless broke is still broke.

 

But thanks for trying i knew i could count on my favorite hemmoroid to slander me at every opportunty. Nice non contribution

Edited September 16, 2013 by mmjarec

[ImperialSun]

Too bad its not true you know 10% is within 15% and 15% is within 20. Regardless broke is still broke.

 

But thanks for trying i knew i could count on my favorite hemmoroid to slander me at every opportunty. Nice non contribution

 

My contribution was simply pointing out that going by your own numbers, the apparent variance between actual and developer goal is circa 1.5%. Based on your numbers.

 

I don't need to slander anything, you do a fantastic job at discrediting yourself, as numerous people have pointed out to you, but please...continue. I feel that BW are about to sit up and take your threads seriously any minute now.

 

Driz

[Elfa]

fubar how?

give examples plz? =/

 

Give their self shield the same healing ability as the healing Sorc, problem solved.

 

Or, perhaps give the Assassin class medium armor instead of light like Sorcs, the way Jugs have heavy armor instead of medium like the Maras.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Elfa

[gorstram]

Too bad its not true you know 10% is within 15% and 15% is within 20. Regardless broke is still broke.

 

But thanks for trying i knew i could count on my favorite hemmoroid to slander me at every opportunty. Nice non contribution

 

Resorting to name calling is the last refuge of the thoroughly beaten. You took your thread to 16 pages, most impressive. I would have thought your argument ran out of steam at eight or nine at the most. But it was at 16 where your argument finally died, and you had to start name calling.

 

/slowclap

[OldRepJedi]

I really dont care if you disagree with me. Others that actually have a brain and or play the class dont just disregard parses

 

Are you doing dummy parses or raid parses. I can tell you now that I parse higher in raids than I do on the dummy. Assassins are fine. I have a guildmate who can do 10000 hp mauls on a good crit roll. And he is playing deception. I play madness. Have played deception also. my play style is more the madness type of play for ops and deception for fps. So L2P. Parses aren't the end all be all. There is subtlety involved.

[OldRepJedi]

I really dont care if you disagree with me. Others that actually have a brain and or play the class dont just disregard parses

 

Are you doing dummy parses or raid parses. I can tell you now that I parse higher in raids than I do on the dummy. Assassins are fine. I have a guildmate who can do 10000 hp mauls on a good crit roll. And he is playing deception. I play madness. Have played deception also. my play style is more the madness type of play for ops and deception for fps. So L2P. Parses aren't the end all be all. There is subtlety involved.

[Berjiz]

Are you doing dummy parses or raid parses. I can tell you now that I parse higher in raids than I do on the dummy. Assassins are fine. I have a guildmate who can do 10000 hp mauls on a good crit roll. And he is playing deception. I play madness. Have played deception also. my play style is more the madness type of play for ops and deception for fps. So L2P. Parses aren't the end all be all. There is subtlety involved.

That good crit role is the problem. Asasin dps is fine it just suffers from sever QOL issuses. Decpetion has no controlable burst outside 90sec cds and madness suffers from all the dot tracking. If you can dot track proberly madness is complelty fine(but extremly boring). the problem is that as soon as you add another madness spec both madness chars will likely see big dps drop unless they are really good.

[Vaerah]

I think you're confusing your sniper/gunslinger's utility with that of an operative, which can do the droid cc and a non-droid cc.

 

Oh and your Sniper/Gunslinger does more DPS because it's a Pure DPS class and not a Hybrid Class like a Shadow Which is Tank and DPS. And you yourself said it's 3 times easier, which is true because I have my own Sniper and it's pretty faceroll to play to success.

 

So, try again?

 

I play a gunslinger, I can do droid CC but also other kinds. Maybe 1 less CC than an operative but *1* thing does not suddenly make one "pure DPS" and the other "utility".

 

I play(ed) a Sorceress in Warhammer Online, *that* is a pure DPS class, basically they can exclusively deal huge DPS and that's it. Sniper in comparison is way more "utility" yet in SWTOR they (rightfully) enjoy unpenalized top DPS.

 

To say sins can tank and DPS = utility or even hybrid is wrong and even if the devs said they were, they'd be WRONG. A sin can EITHER tank OR DPS, many MMOs moved away from hybrids as it's a recipe for failure. The "jack of all the trades, master of none" cannot work in MMOs where the devs create content that requires min max or die (see enrage encounters, can't slack or underperform there, hard numbers matter).

In fact guess what, sins are underwhelming tanks and underwhelming DPS, which in a competitive setting (PvP) or in a top end challenging PvE encounter means the class is just useless and pointless.

 

I for sure I did not roll a shadow to tank yet there's not a single pure rogue in SWTOR.

The idea of making a popular class able to tank (in SWTOR nobody can say there's tanks shortage) is brilliant, penalizing it because changing gear and spec they *might* do something else is just retarded and it's showing.

[Reno_Tarshil]

I play a gunslinger, I can do droid CC but also other kinds. Maybe 1 less CC than an operative but *1* thing does not suddenly make one "pure DPS" and the other "utility".

 

I play(ed) a Sorceress in Warhammer Online, *that* is a pure DPS class, basically they can exclusively deal huge DPS and that's it. Sniper in comparison is way more "utility" yet in SWTOR they (rightfully) enjoy unpenalized top DPS.

 

To say sins can tank and DPS = utility or even hybrid is wrong and even if the devs said they were, they'd be WRONG. A sin can EITHER tank OR DPS, many MMOs moved away from hybrids as it's a recipe for failure. The "jack of all the trades, master of none" cannot work in MMOs where the devs create content that requires min max or die (see enrage encounters, can't slack or underperform there, hard numbers matter).

In fact guess what, sins are underwhelming tanks and underwhelming DPS, which in a competitive setting (PvP) or in a top end challenging PvE encounter means the class is just useless and pointless.

 

I for sure I did not roll a shadow to tank yet there's not a single pure rogue in SWTOR.

The idea of making a popular class able to tank (in SWTOR nobody can say there's tanks shortage) is brilliant, penalizing it because changing gear and spec they *might* do something else is just retarded and it's showing.

 

But they're considered a Pure DPS Class because all he can do is spec into 1 of 3 Damage Trees, where as a Assassin can Spec into 1 Tank Tree to Tank or 2 DPS Trees to DPS and that makes him a Hybrid Class. Same goes for Scoundrels and Operatives. They can spec into 1 Healer Tree or 2 DPS Trees to DPS.

 

And as a Gunslinger/Sniper the only CC you have is for Droids. You can slow others with Leg Shot or disorient them with Flash Bang, but you only have one CC.

 

As for Utility, being able to CC is utility enough.

[LordArtemis]

Then if their metrics were right they would have perfectly balanced classes but they dont. Sorcs are crying about their dps too. And get off the utility crap there is no such thing as utility in asassins. Either their metrics calculations are wrong or they suck at balancing or both. If they were as good as you said then there wouldnt be balance issues

 

So you know better than even the folks that develop this game. Classic.

 

There are ALWAYS BALANCE ISSUES.

 

Continue to ice skate uphill if you wish however. If you truly believe that you can have some kind of effect, that you can be some kind of single man crusade that can effect change then I say continue on.

 

It seems as the though the VAST MAJORITY of sensible, professional players disagree with you. You might have a tough time convincing folks that can think for themselves.

[Malastare]

Time to move on to the next urgent topic: Time to ungimp jawas

[mmjarec]

So you know better than even the folks that develop this game. Classic.

 

There are ALWAYS BALANCE ISSUES.

 

Continue to ice skate uphill if you wish however. If you truly believe that you can have some kind of effect, that you can be some kind of single man crusade that can effect change then I say continue on.

 

It seems as the though the VAST MAJORITY of sensible, professional players disagree with you. You might have a tough time convincing folks that can think for themselves.

 

I really dont care if you agree or not i know whats wrong and have proven it. This was a measage to bioware not a balance discussion. Since bioware asks for parses to support ones claim i have all i need

[LordArtemis]

I really dont care if you agree or not i know whats wrong and have proven it. This was a measage to bioware not a balance discussion. Since bioware asks for parses to support ones claim i have all i need

 

Fair enough.

[mmjarec]

I know it will always have balance issues and never be perfect but that shouldnt stop them from even trying it seems like other classes that arent as unbalanced as sins get immediate attention so why do other classes deserve help and not assassins when said other classes crying for a dps buff already do more dps than sins. It makes zero sense

[Avicii]

This pretty much shows, you have no idea about any of the classes in the game.

 

Not Every Class get's a CC. Your Precious Guardians/Juggernauts and Vanguards/Powertechs do not have a CC. Of the Three Tanks only Shadows and Assassins have a CC. So, no, not every class has a CC and in this regard Having a Tank that can CC is an advantage over the other two

 

 

So you have been called out for not knowing anything about the game, but please I can't wait to be told I'm wrong some more, when I know I'm right.

 

Umm please don't make anyone list the CCs other tanks have. Unless your post is clearly taken out of context.

 

After this post and in conjunction with the rest Probably time to let this thread die. As I noted people exaggerating and not being clear or knowing all the facts torpedoes these arguments.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Umm please don't make anyone list the CCs other tanks have. Unless your post is clearly taken out of context.

 

After this post and in conjunction with the rest Probably time to let this thread die. As I noted people exaggerating and not being clear or knowing all the facts torpedoes these arguments.

 

Only shadows have a 60 second CC. Everything else is considered a snare, slow or short duration stun but not a full on 1 minute CC.

[mmjarec]

Only shadows have a 60 second CC. Everything else is considered a snare, slow or short duration stun but not a full on 1 minute CC.

 

Sorry bud you cant make up your own definition for cc. Try wikipedia.org its clearly listed as any ability that causes loss of functionality OR preventing abilities from being used. Notice duration isnt a stipulation however ability canceling is thus your definition is wrong

 

Other classes have ccs. That can be used IN combat And they are higher dps so that justiification is flat out wrong

[kidatwood]

Ok look at your utility this way.

Commando/bh-tank healer dps

Knight/juggernaut-tank dps

Smuggler/op-dps healer stealth

 

Inquisitor/consular-tank/stealth/healer/dps.

 

They gave you the nerf bat around a year ago because.

1 your class was ment to be the jack of all trade master of none.

2 your class was over powered hence over played.

I will suggest this that instead of asking for more dps ask for more utility.

Edited September 17, 2013 by kidatwood