stockmks Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I want to know.. as honestly, the actual CONTENT that is released (not considering the exploitative pricing) is actually above average. I started on f2p, and have seen the core game, makeb, cz198, treek, the bounty hunter event, even the items in the gamble packs.. they're all excellent. I want to engage the game as i'm hooked. But every single approach bioware makes regarding their game somehow infuriates me. Its insane how bad these things are, how consistently bad they are, and how REGULAR these bad pr/product decisions are also. Some of the things that pissed me off, in no particular order: - CARTEL MARKET CHRISTMAS EVENT, THAT WAS VERY EXPENSIVE, AND NOT ONE PIXEL WAS CHANGED IN THE GAME WORLD. Christmas for bioware perhaps? - Subscriber appreciation. - Heal to full developers. - Having the balls to charge 20 bucks for a one use item. That's insulting sorry. - Giving hutt cartel away for free when i paid money for it 6 months ago and making me feel lame. - Cloak and daggar communication policies on upcoming content. There's more. The intent of this post is just an appeal to the actual developers of SWTOR, and EA. Your product, IP, resumes, goodwill etc are getting dragged though the mud because someone, or some small group of people in bioware seem to be grossly incompetent in what they do. You actually have something reasonably good behind these failures. Don't you want happy businesses and happy customers? Right now its happy idiots and irate customers. Why?? I want to love this game.. i really do. Ps. The community team rocks. This is not about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeOldeRepublic Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 But every single approach bioware makes regarding their game somehow infuriates me. Its insane how bad these things are, how consistently bad they are, and how REGULAR these bad pr/product decisions are also. I'm not a doctor nor play one on tv, but seriously, it's not good for your health if the game "infuriates" you that much. Not worth the elevated blood pressure and long-term heart disease risks. Maybe unsub for a while? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Just to answer the tread title... Because the requirement to be an EA exec is an MBA and understanding how to profitably extract maximum value from gamers' wallets. It has nothing to do with making gamers happy. It has nothing to do with understanding or being gamers. It's all about money extraction. Revenue. Profit. And how do they do that? Exclusive rights to desired franchises. Can any other gaming company produce an NFL game? How about a Star Wars game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkDisturbed Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) I think people getting mad that the fact that the expansion is going free for subs is absolutely ridiculous. That being said, Bioware does need to work on their PR, a lot of things could and should have been handled a lot better, and they should have learned by the game's past PR problems. Edited September 12, 2013 by DarkDisturbed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) Some of the things that pissed me off, in no particular order: - CARTEL MARKET CHRISTMAS EVENT, THAT WAS VERY EXPENSIVE, AND NOT ONE PIXEL WAS CHANGED IN THE GAME WORLD. Christmas for bioware perhaps? - Subscriber appreciation. - Heal to full developers. - Having the balls to charge 20 bucks for a one use item. That's insulting sorry. - Giving hutt cartel away for free when i paid money for it 6 months ago and making me feel lame. - Cloak and daggar communication policies on upcoming content. There's more. There are not PR issues per se. They are issues for some players. There is no pleasing all players.. regardless of how perfect your PR machine might be. But really... why does it matter so much? Nothing you listed effects actual game play. I'm not suggesting you are not bothered by the things you listed, or that some other people agree with you. I am simply asking why it matters so much to you? Play the game.. have fun. Lots good going on in this game. Don't let the small stuff bog you down IMO. But if you don't think the good outweighs any bad.. then you have a choice to make. Edited September 12, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockmks Posted September 12, 2013 Author Share Posted September 12, 2013 Just to answer the tread title... Because the requirement to be an EA exec is an MBA and understanding how to profitably extract maximum value from gamers' wallets. It can't be that bad can it? Businesses are out to profit you, but some at least still pretend to be doing you a service for your money, and value you as a customer. As an entertainment business even today i'd want to be gracious and not cynical to the people that pay me.. it hasn't gotten that far yet. Though looking around the industry its getting close... Blizzard, trion, even wildstar and teso want to milk people. Yeah my fault assuming people who want my money should pretend to be nice to me, lol. Also as far as mmo's go.. i might have been playing them for a while now, but isn't it valuable to an mmo developer to have a healthy out of game ecosystem around it? Look at all the podcasts for wow, and fan music parodies on youtube etc... This is good. Why burn your own house down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockmks Posted September 12, 2013 Author Share Posted September 12, 2013 There are not PR issues per se. They are issues for some players. There is no pleasing all players.. regardless of how perfect your PR machine might be. But really... why does it matter so much? Nothing you listed effects actual game play. I'm not suggesting you are not bothered by the things you listed, or that some other people agree with you. I am simply asking why it matters so much to you? Play the game.. have fun. Lots good going on in this game. Don't let the small stuff bog you down IMO. But if you don't think the good outweighs any bad.. then you have a choice to make. It doesn't bog me down per se, its more still a shock every time i see something on the website, or on mmo news sites, that is so honestly frikked up.. It still surprises me how they keep achieving these terrible badwills. Im sure ill just assume bioware will do something stupid for next time soon enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 It can't be that bad can it? Businesses are out to profit you, but some at least still pretend to be doing you a service for your money, and value you as a customer. As an entertainment business even today i'd want to be gracious and not cynical to the people that pay me.. it hasn't gotten that far yet. Though looking around the industry its getting close... Blizzard, trion, even wildstar and teso want to milk people. Yeah my fault assuming people who want my money should pretend to be nice to me, lol. Also as far as mmo's go.. i might have been playing them for a while now, but isn't it valuable to an mmo developer to have a healthy out of game ecosystem around it? Look at all the podcasts for wow, and fan music parodies on youtube etc... This is good. Why burn your own house down? I doubt they're doing it on purpose. I just think the people in charge are absolutely not gamers. They don't know how gamers think. They might even think poorly of gamers - "nerds" or whatever. They simply don't care about how happy gamers are or aren't, as long as the gamers keep paying for games. They certainly don't seem to want to listen to gamers. They've proved that in spades by ignoring virtually all of the tester input ever given for this game. And they're really smart, as I said before. Securing exclusive rights to NFL and Star Wars games was a monstrous coup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) Two things that have already been mentioned: 1) When you have a player base of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of gamers - it is absolutely impossible to please everyone. 2) I have no problem with making RotHC free to subs after 5 months, that's plenty of time that people got their money's worth out of paying for it, and the CC grant to people who bought it in the last month is a good remedy for those who just paid for it. That being said: I have to agree that for a triple-A MMO company, BW has been seriously under-performing on PR and managing player expectations, which is a shame because individual Community Team members like Eric and Amber seem like solid Community Managers. -The price-point for the dyes may be something people disagree on (I think it was way, way too high), but not mentioning that they were limited time offerings felt like an amateur-hour mistake. -While I have no problem with Cathar and Appearance Designer being CC-driven, when you also add in having the X-mas and KotOR anniversary offerings revolving around the Market, and a special one-time "subscriber appreciation gift" being a CC grant, you can't really fault players for feeling like EA/BW just sees them as dollar signs. (Yes, companies, including game companies exist for one reason: to make money, but from a PR perspective, a big way you achieve that goal is by making sure your players don't walk away feeling like they're nothing more than a checkbook to you.) -The H2F and Perception Problem incidents speak for themselves. The overall product itself is one I'm still really happy with, but I feel like BW's definitely dropped the ball on some opportunities to garner some player goodwill, and has actually exacerbated some of the hurt feelings that could have been mitigated if they'd taken a different track. Edited September 12, 2013 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpactHound Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I want to know.. as honestly, the actual CONTENT that is released (not considering the exploitative pricing) is actually above average. I started on f2p, and have seen the core game, makeb, cz198, treek, the bounty hunter event, even the items in the gamble packs.. they're all excellent. I want to engage the game as i'm hooked. But every single approach bioware makes regarding their game somehow infuriates me. Its insane how bad these things are, how consistently bad they are, and how REGULAR these bad pr/product decisions are also. Some of the things that pissed me off, in no particular order: - CARTEL MARKET CHRISTMAS EVENT, THAT WAS VERY EXPENSIVE, AND NOT ONE PIXEL WAS CHANGED IN THE GAME WORLD. Christmas for bioware perhaps? - Subscriber appreciation. - Heal to full developers. - Having the balls to charge 20 bucks for a one use item. That's insulting sorry. - Giving hutt cartel away for free when i paid money for it 6 months ago and making me feel lame. - Cloak and daggar communication policies on upcoming content. There's more. The intent of this post is just an appeal to the actual developers of SWTOR, and EA. Your product, IP, resumes, goodwill etc are getting dragged though the mud because someone, or some small group of people in bioware seem to be grossly incompetent in what they do. You actually have something reasonably good behind these failures. Don't you want happy businesses and happy customers? Right now its happy idiots and irate customers. Why?? I want to love this game.. i really do. Ps. The community team rocks. This is not about them. You didn't like the $20 lawmower with christmas lights draped on it? I kind of want to see it now and then because it's rare, but it's just the WORST slap in the face to Xmas and holiday content in MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimG Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 The intent of this post is just an appeal to the actual developers of SWTOR, and EA. Then you came to the wrong place. This the general discussion section of the forums. The devs aren't going to read your post. If any of them came across it, they probably wouldn't even bother based upon the title as it's an obvious tip-off that a rage-fest is about to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 - CARTEL MARKET CHRISTMAS EVENT, THAT WAS VERY EXPENSIVE, AND NOT ONE PIXEL WAS CHANGED IN THE GAME WORLD. Christmas for bioware perhaps? I agree, this was handled very badly. It was a non-event. Unlike most of the games on the market. - Subscriber appreciation. That was not handled well, I agree, but they are doing a bit better lately. Some of the new perks are good IMO, the way they are presented is better. - Heal to full developers. That was a issue that upset PVP players mostly, and I think therefore was quite a bit of noise from a small portion of the population...a non issue IMO. - Having the balls to charge 20 bucks for a one use item. That's insulting sorry. I don't agree there. There is nothing insulting about any price for anything IMO...it is only insulting if it remains that price despite lack of demand. - Giving hutt cartel away for free when i paid money for it 6 months ago and making me feel lame. I absolutely disagree with this and think the complaints are selfish and self centered. This is how it is done all over. - Cloak and daggar communication policies on upcoming content. I think this is actually a better move...hold items to the chest as long as possible. Generates interest and keeps the noise down until the item is tested. Just my slant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillack Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 OP, you would have been steaming mad if you had been here since Beta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrea Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) Great programers, writers, and designers. I thing they need do some Head hunting from Blizzards marketing/PR ppl, I'm sick of wow but they do a great job at keeping players happy. Edited September 12, 2013 by Jrea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewski Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 OP, you would have been steaming mad if you had been here since Beta. I've been here since beta, and I'm not mad. On the original topic: Although I disagree with some of the specifics the OP mentions, in general I agree that a lot of the problems stem from the way things are communicated. Not form the community team generally, as they've been doing a great job lately, but more at the high level. Take RotHC going free. I understand the reason for the coins being given only to recent purchasers. The real reason is that it's more or less a refund for people who recently bought it so they don't feel screwed. I don't feel I need the coins myself, since I've already received my $10 in benefits from having it so long. However, by phrasing the coin grant as part of a "Subscriber Appreciation" plan, it makes any subscriber who does not get it feel left out. It's totally semantics, but completely screws up the whole message. A lot of trouble comes from that kind of screw up, which should be somewhat predictable by this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboWithAStick Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 This game has issues and the devs really don't seem to get our concerns. 2.4 is out soon and Bounty Hunters and Sith inquisitors are still in a bad spot. Why are they not doing anything and ignoring the issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 They are bad, but if you want really bad... They were actually beaten (to a pulp) by their corporate siblings at EA/Maxis SimCity. It has these amazing quality features at no extra charge: - It doesn't work and appears as though they stopped all attempts to make it work. - Roughly 75% of the times you load it, it will crash within 5 minutes, not just to desktop, but "power off is the only option" crashes. - You can't actually make anything big enough to be classified a City. Other than that... great game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockmks Posted September 13, 2013 Author Share Posted September 13, 2013 You didn't like the $20 lawmower with christmas lights draped on it? I kind of want to see it now and then because it's rare, but it's just the WORST slap in the face to Xmas and holiday content in MMOs. No. I didn't like the lawnmower at all. In other mmo's you get many presents under a huge tree with a dwarf dressed up as santa claus. You know the one i'm talking about There's even a quest to go make cookies. Yeah i can't imagine what beta would have been like... Okay fair.. thinking it though, there is nothing bad about giving hutt cartel to new subs. Its nice even. Its a just a personal reflection.. for my money spent i do feel like a chump as i didn't have a level 50 character at the time even.. and i certainly know what i'll be inclined to do for the next expansion. I'm going to need 2 holostatues and 3 different mounts that drop of raid bosses (or something equally great) to get my preorder, otherwise i'll just wait 6 months. We have a precedent that it goes free quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirx Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Random players' perceptions and voiced opinions do not equate to fact and reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dysehunter Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) I want to know.. as honestly, the actual CONTENT that is released (not considering the exploitative pricing) is actually above average. I started on f2p, and have seen the core game, makeb, cz198, treek, the bounty hunter event, even the items in the gamble packs.. they're all excellent. I want to engage the game as i'm hooked. But every single approach bioware makes regarding their game somehow infuriates me. Its insane how bad these things are, how consistently bad they are, and how REGULAR these bad pr/product decisions are also. Some of the things that pissed me off, in no particular order: - CARTEL MARKET CHRISTMAS EVENT, THAT WAS VERY EXPENSIVE, AND NOT ONE PIXEL WAS CHANGED IN THE GAME WORLD. Christmas for bioware perhaps? - Subscriber appreciation. - Heal to full developers. - Having the balls to charge 20 bucks for a one use item. That's insulting sorry. - Giving hutt cartel away for free when i paid money for it 6 months ago and making me feel lame. - Cloak and daggar communication policies on upcoming content. There's more. The intent of this post is just an appeal to the actual developers of SWTOR, and EA. Your product, IP, resumes, goodwill etc are getting dragged though the mud because someone, or some small group of people in bioware seem to be grossly incompetent in what they do. You actually have something reasonably good behind these failures. Don't you want happy businesses and happy customers? Right now its happy idiots and irate customers. Why?? I want to love this game.. i really do. Ps. The community team rocks. This is not about them. You have to remember, EA doesn't care about gamers, It cares about getting money from your wallet in any way possible. EA won worst company in america 2 years running for a reason, They destroy games and their customer service is beyond crap. Edited September 13, 2013 by Dysehunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 There are not PR issues per se. They are issues for some players. There is no pleasing all players.. regardless of how perfect your PR machine might be. But really... why does it matter so much? Nothing you listed effects actual game play. I'm not suggesting you are not bothered by the things you listed, or that some other people agree with you. I am simply asking why it matters so much to you? Play the game.. have fun. Lots good going on in this game. Don't let the small stuff bog you down IMO. But if you don't think the good outweighs any bad.. then you have a choice to make. No, really, they're PR issues. PR is supposed to enhance the company's relationship with the public (hence its name). The spin they've put on the "please don't request a cash refund for RotHC" is PR at its worst. It was ill considered and poorly implemented. Good PR for a gaming company would understand how gamers think and how best to communicate with them. Good PR would have understood the wording of that message would make many players who bought RotHC at +31 days and longer feel slighted at the very least. Good PR would have done it differently. Good PR would have worded the message in a way that didn't irk players or, were that impossible, strongly recommended to management to alter the scheme in a way to make the message more palatable. So, yes, they're definitely PR issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillack Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I've been here since beta, and I'm not mad. [snip] Guess some people are ok with the mass amount of content that was taken out before launch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewski Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Guess some people are ok with the mass amount of content that was taken out before launch? There are many things that have happened over the course of the last couple of years with this game that I found disappointing, some of the removed content and long term consequences from beta being one of them. There are many things I think could have been done better as well. Let's face it, no one who played the game at launch is playing exactly the game we were all hoping for now. That said, nothing that has happened has risen to the level of making me mad, let alone "steaming". Though I disagree with some of the decisions that have been made, and I definitely think many of them could have been handled better, the simply truth is I like this game. Not only do I like it enough to keep playing it, I actually like it enough to keep paying for it. Apparently that is true for you as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlbaratta Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Just to answer the tread title... Because the requirement to be an EA exec is an MBA and understanding how to profitably extract maximum value from gamers' wallets. It has nothing to do with making gamers happy. It has nothing to do with understanding or being gamers. It's all about money extraction. Revenue. Profit. And how do they do that? Exclusive rights to desired franchises. Can any other gaming company produce an NFL game? How about a Star Wars game? I was at a party about 3 months ago and met some folks who worked for EA and they were really nice and passionate about games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) I was at a party about 3 months ago and met some folks who worked for EA and they were really nice and passionate about games. Were they developers or designers or testers... or senior management? Developers, designers, and testers don't get to make the types of decisions I was talking about. Edited September 13, 2013 by DarthTHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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