Grammar

[Estrian]

Hi, everybody!

I really don't like to be pedantic but... Actually I do. As an enthusiast of language and role-playing-player to me it's not only a matter of education but also of atmosphere to read correct sentences in a potential RPG. As to me the most disturbing grammar mistakes so far are the following, because they're displayed throughout the game:

• missing comma in the Knight of the Republic title. It has to be like that: "[Player's name], Knight of the Republic". (You did it right with the Black Bisector, Founder and similar titles!)
  
• one point too much: An ellipsis is indicated by three suspension points... (It's wrong since the original movies.)
  
• missing dash: A dash separates a single thought from the rest of a sentence and has to be enclosed by a space - in contrast to a hyphen, which connects two different words to a single meaning without space. Codex entries display a hyphen and dialogues one hyphen behind another where a dash is obligatory.
  
• Consular is an adjective, so Jedi Consular as an occupational title/a class title makes no sense. The noun is consul. (Thanks, PLynkes!) But considering the flair of this class it's rather something like an ambassador or a consultant (with the latter maybe the reason of confusion). I'd change it to Jedi Envoy, but this is not primarily a game developers' decision as it is a "proper" name in Star Wars universe.
  
• At least one editor doesn't know the difference between 'who' and 'whom'.
  
• To be continued...
  

 

Hopefully I'm not the only one who loves to read correct grammar in a game with such a great story like SWTOR and this post will be noted accordingly!

Edited October 31, 2013 by Estrian

[JacenHallis]

An ellipsis at the end of a sentence goes with a period for a total of four dots.

 

I would like to see the comma in the title, though. There are a number of grammar and spelling errors I note in the game, but I tend to ignore them for the most part. if I were to fill out a bug report for all of them, I'd never be able to play the game.

[AlrikFassbauer]

There are a few more in the German language version of the game as well.

Like the Sandpeople armor boots from the social vendor in Tatooine having the same name as the Sandpeople armor headgear from the same vendor.

Seriously, no joke. I had sent this in as a bug report, but it seems to have been misunderstood.

Edited September 10, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[Thylbanus]

I dunt no wut ur talkin abot. luks fyn to me.

 

JK. It cheeses me off too.

[Estrian]

An ellipsis at the end of a sentence goes with a period for a total of four dots.

Where did you learn that? I couldn't find a single grammar book or website supporting your claim, neither does any English literature I read so far.

 

 

I assume there are many more grammar mistakes and you are welcome to share them in this thread. May it be for the greater good!

Edited September 11, 2013 by Estrian

[MajikMyst]

OMG!!! The grammar police!!! Quick hide the punctuation..

 

There is no need for a comma in the title.. Really?? You are bothered by that?? Seriously???

 

You really don't have anything better to do??

 

I never thought I would see the day when someone would complain about grammar for the title of a Video game.. I was unaware that something that falls under the category of creative freedom is required to be grammatically correct..

Edited September 11, 2013 by MajikMyst

[CrazyMcGee]

OMG!!! The grammar police!!! Quick hide the punctuation..

 

There is no need for a comma in the title.. Really?? You are bothered by that?? Seriously???

 

You really don't have anything better to do??

 

If that is your only complaint and suggestion, then I guess you don't have one.. Just saying..

 

Well it seems like you had nothing better to do than ridicule the OP, so what does that say about you?

 

OP, I'm totally on your side! Now if I could just teach General Chat the difference between there, their and they're, I could die happy

Edited September 11, 2013 by CrazyMcGee

[Fidelicatessen]

Commas get no love

 

Also, ellipsis does not require a period. Just the opposite, in fact! Ending a sentence with an ellipsis obviates the need for a period.

 

Also, my Jedi Guardian never uses that title due to the bad grammar.

 

I have learned that there is SO MUCH bad grammar on the internet, in my workplace, etc. that I have grown somewhat accustomed to it. I used to correct people, now I just mentally shrug. Unless I'm trolling

[MajikMyst]

Well it seems like you had nothing better to do than ridicule the OP, so what does that say about you?

 

OP, I'm totally on your side! Now if I could just teach General Chat the difference between there, their and they're, I could die happy

 

It says that I have some common sense.. If you all want to moan and groan about a comma in the title, then be my guest.. You might want to consider how you all look to everyone else.. Not that I believe you care..

 

But honestly.. Don't hold your breath.. There isn't a single Star Wars title, be it movies, television, or video game that has a comma.. I doubt this one is going to get one either..

[Estrian]

OMG!!! The grammar police!!! Quick hide the punctuation..

 

There is no need for a comma in the title.. Really?? You are bothered by that?? Seriously???

 

You really don't have anything better to do??

 

I never thought I would see the day when someone would complain about grammar for the title of a Video game.. I was unaware that something that falls under the category of creative freedom is required to be grammatically correct..

To some people cultivation of language is desirable. It's a matter of enjoying reading and ones personal demand which you obviously lack. But really, that's your post? "You really don't have anything better to do??"

[Estrian]

Well it seems like you had nothing better to do than ridicule the OP, so what does that say about you?

 

OP, I'm totally on your side! Now if I could just teach General Chat the difference between there, their and they're, I could die happy

 

I totally know what you mean! Comparable stupidity is also common in German (my mother-tongue). *sighs theatrical*

[Estrian]

Also, my Jedi Guardian never uses that title due to the bad grammar.

Exactly, actually that was the main reason for me to start this thread! Otherwise Knight of the Republic would be my choice of title until I get the Master title. I am so glad not being the only one who finds such things bothersome. Edited September 12, 2013 by Estrian

[Nempo]

Well it seems like you had nothing better to do than ridicule the OP, so what does that say about you?

 

OP, I'm totally on your side! Now if I could just teach General Chat the difference between there, their and they're, I could die happy

 

Don't forget "your" and "you're", or "u" is not "you".

[Estrian]

Don't forget "your" and "you're", or "u" is not "you".

 

I love you all! Where have you been all my life?

[PLynkes]

Consular is an adjective, not a noun. The noun is Consul. I figure some twit remembered the phrase "consular ship" from the original Star Wars movie, thought it sounded cool and figured it was the ship belonging to something called a 'consular.'

 

It doesn't make any sense, and I admit that it really bugs me a lot more than it ought to.

 

 

 

Unless of course they mean "Jedi Consular" to sound like some kind of olden-days adjective-after-the-noun deal, like "Knight Errant." That would be okay, I guess (effectively making it mean "Consular Jedi").

 

But I bet they don't, seeing as they use "Consular" as a title on its own all the damn time.

Edited September 11, 2013 by PLynkes

[Mowermanx]

There's also "Its" and It's". I see this daily.

[Nempo]

I totally know what you mean! Comparable stupidity is also common in German (my mother-tongue). *sighs theatrical*

 

Hah! I know the feeling. My great-grandfather had me learn old-gaellic and latin, as well as runes (norse, celt, american indian) and symbols (alchemy and mythology based)...mixing all of that up with english has shot my spelling and punctiation in english I freely admit.

[Fidelicatessen]

I love you all! Where have you been all my life?

 

Begeren Colony. Look up Corwon, Ranold or (Impside) Racus. We shall teach the masses the difference between to and too!

[AlrikFassbauer]

To some people cultivation of language is desirable.

 

I'll put it so : Language is - next to writing - my passion -

 

- but I also hate "Grammar Nazis" with a passion as well.

 

Me, I'm more interested in the history and the background stories of words, where they come from, in what kind of culture they have arisen, if they are relating to persons even (boycott & sandwich),

but I'm not at all interested in correct placement of sentence signs/marks. I'm not even much interested in correct grammar, because I can understand people anyway, well, at least most of the time. Just take a look at Creole languages.

 

And that, although proper placing of sentence signs is almost like an art for me. Words need space to breathe. I always put a little bit of space between the "I" and an "(" or an ")" sign, because letters and words just need space to breathe. To be seen by the reader. If I place words & signs too closely to one another, words & signs might get easier overlooked. And they cannot breathe, too. Which means that they won't get the attention they deserved.

 

When I was a teenager, I wrote poems. In English, although I'm German. Then, writing became an art to me.

 

But so-called "Grammar Nazis" are not interested in language as an art. They are the bureaucrats of language, trying to destroy it, to mangle it by pressing it into corsets neither words nor sentences fit into.

 

Bureaucratized language is lifeless language.

 

Hah! I know the feeling. My great-grandfather had me learn old-gaellic and latin, as well as runes (norse, celt, american indian) and symbols (alchemy and mythology based)...mixing all of that up with english has shot my spelling and punctiation in english I freely admit.

 

I'm in a similar situastion. When I was a small boy, I learned at least 5 local dialects - the mixture of that all is what I'm speaking nowadays.

Edited September 11, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[Estrian]

I'll put it so : Language is - next to writing - my passion -

 

- but I also hate "Grammar Nazis" with a passion as well.

 

Me, I'm more interested in the history and the background stories of words, where they come from, in what kind of culture they have arisen, if they are relating to persons even (boycott & sandwich),

but I'm not at all interested in correct placement of sentence signs/marks. I'm not even much interested in correct grammar, because I can understand people anyway, well, at least most of the time. Just take a look at Creole languages.

 

And that, although proper placing of sentence signs is almost like an art for me. Words need space to breathe. I always put a little bit of space between the "I" and an "(" or an ")" sign, because letters and words just need space to breathe. To be seen by the reader. If I place words & signs too closely to one another, words & signs might get easier overlooked. And they cannot breathe, too. Which means that they won't get the attention they deserved.

 

When I was a teenager, I wrote poems. In English, although I'm German. Then, writing became an art to me.

 

But so-called "Grammar Nazis" are not interested in language as an art. They are the bureaucrats of language, trying to destroy it, to mangle it by pressing it into corsets neither words nor sentences fit into.

 

Bureaucratized language is lifeless language.

 

You are interested in etymology and poetry, so am I. Not only do I love poems of Goethe & Co. I also write some myself, like you do (mostly in German though). Inconsistant orthography is the one think I dislike when reading Goethe's original language and he even justifies it with the same reason you do: If unterstanding is given the rest is negligible. But where Goethe says it about orthography you go further by saying the same about grammar in general.

 

The difference between you and me is that you follow a subjective romance (which in this case might be the only thing separating you from an uneducated person) without a standard (like an uneducated person does) whereas I prefer to shape the language of heart into an aesthetic form of mind. Calling me implicitly a "Grammar Nazi" for this only shows me your ignorance for true art.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Estrian

[Estrian]

Consular is an adjective, not a noun. The noun is Consul. I figure some twit remembered the phrase "consular ship" from the original Star Wars movie, thought it sounded cool and figured it was the ship belonging to something called a 'consular.'

 

It doesn't make any sense, and I admit that it really bugs me a lot more than it ought to.

 

 

 

Unless of course they mean "Jedi Consular" to sound like some kind of olden-days adjective-after-the-noun deal, like "Knight Errant." That would be okay, I guess (effectively making it mean "Consular Jedi").

 

But I bet they don't, seeing as they use "Consular" as a title on its own all the damn time.

 

Wow, I've to admit I missed that one - and it's huge! Now I'll never play a Jedi Consular. (Just kidding, I'm not that extreme but it's really disturbing.) Since it's an official Jedi occupation by now the chance of being corrected converges to zero.

[CrazyMcGee]

I really hate when people complain about "grammar nazis".

 

I'm not fanatical about this. We're in an MMO and the writing is obviously going to be casual. That's fine. I have no problem with people ignoring some formal grammar or spelling conventions, especially where it's for convenience.

 

For example, if someone types "brb", I am not going to say "I think you mean B.R.B.!" I also don't care when people ignore proper capitalisation or punctuation or even spelling, e.g. "anyone wanna do SM EV?" It's often appropriate to the context.

 

However, there is a difference between using a casual style and just being wrong. So I might accept "dude, give it up", without the need for capitalisation and punctuation. But I won't accept "there just idiots!" One is a short-hand, casual style used to reduce the time spent typing; the other is wrong. It's not quicker to type, it's not quicker to read, it is just WRONG.

 

And what I find worse is the people who defend it, by calling anyone who points it out a "grammar nazi". This isn't about being picky, it is about using the wrong word. If we all just used words that sounded the same but had completely different meanings interchangeably, it would be incomprehensible.

 

Honestly, these are things that children are taught at a very young age. If you don't know the difference, you should learn it. You will not be taken seriously in life if you cannot spell simple, basic words. If someone points it out to you, you should not embrace your ignorance and act as if it is something to be proud of - as if perhaps you are too busy or too cool to learn to spell. It is not smart, it is not clever, it is not cool - you are merely highlighting your ignorance and lack of education. Fix it, thank the people who helped you and learn your native language properly.

[CrazyMcGee]

Consular is an adjective, not a noun. The noun is Consul. I figure some twit remembered the phrase "consular ship" from the original Star Wars movie, thought it sounded cool and figured it was the ship belonging to something called a 'consular.'

 

It doesn't make any sense, and I admit that it really bugs me a lot more than it ought to.

 

Unless of course they mean "Jedi Consular" to sound like some kind of olden-days adjective-after-the-noun deal, like "Knight Errant." That would be okay, I guess (effectively making it mean "Consular Jedi").

 

But I bet they don't, seeing as they use "Consular" as a title on its own all the damn time.

 

Wow, I hadn't thought about that. But you are totally correct. It should be Consul Jedi, like Consul General and pluralised as Consuls Jedi. Consulars isn't even a word. Otherwise, as you say, it's an adjective, like consular assistance. Damn, I feel dumb now I will make my way to the nearest Jedi Consulate to protest!

Edited September 11, 2013 by CrazyMcGee

[Estrian]

I really hate when people complain about "grammar nazis".

 

I'm not fanatical about this. We're in an MMO and the writing is obviously going to be casual. That's fine. I have no problem with people ignoring some formal grammar or spelling conventions, especially where it's for convenience.

 

For example, if someone types "brb", I am not going to say "I think you mean B.R.B.!" I also don't care when people ignore proper capitalisation or punctuation or even spelling, e.g. "anyone wanna do SM EV?" It's often appropriate to the context.

 

However, there is a difference between using a casual style and just being wrong. So I might accept "dude, give it up", without the need for capitalisation and punctuation. But I won't accept "there just idiots!" One is a short-hand, casual style used to reduce the time spent typing; the other is wrong. It's not quicker to type, it's not quicker to read, it is just WRONG.

 

And what I find worse is the people who defend it, by calling anyone who points it out a "grammar nazi". This isn't about being picky, it is about using the wrong word. If we all just used words that sounded the same but had completely different meanings interchangeably, it would be incomprehensible.

 

Honestly, these are things that children are taught at a very young age. If you don't know the difference, you should learn it. You will not be taken seriously in life if you cannot spell simple, basic words. If someone points it out to you, you should not embrace your ignorance and act as if it is something to be proud of - as if perhaps you are too busy or too cool to learn to spell. It is not smart, it is not clever, it is not cool - you are merely highlighting your ignorance and lack of education. Fix it, thank the people who helped you and learn your native language properly.

 

I love you! Just two things I want to add:

 

(Virtual) colloquial language in a MMOG is alright, even on a RP-Server (where I play out of naivety), as long as it is not in-game. In "General" it could be practical but it's an ambience-killer to "Say" so.

 

"BRB" (capital letters, without dots) would be correct for an acronym.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Estrian

[PLynkes]

It should be Consul Jedi, like Consul General and pluralised as Consuls Jedi.

 

I think Jedi Consul, or Consular Jedi would sound just as good, and roll off the tongue a bit better. But anything would be an improvement on what we have currently.

 

 

I haven't got very far into the "Consular" story myself. I'm not even sure if it is meant in the sense of an ambassadorial role, or something more like a Roman Consul (who were military as well as civilian leaders). That would have some bearing on what best to call these... things.