Darkness PvP Build

[Avicii]

Damnit.

 

Please post your builds using Torhead skill calc if you can.

 

I hate seeing all these #/#/# builds thrown around without actually knowing exactly how you spent the points.

 

I'm trying to learn damnit haha.

 

When you post from your phone it's a pain in the *** to post the specs. It's fairly self explanatory look at the madness tree lower teer talents, you can which benefit Deception.

 

Also these specs are all in Xinika's sticky at the top of the forums for the most part. It's easier to be lazy posting and have someone that wants to know exact talents to go look, Wakajinn is the spec more or less. Then if you have questions ask.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Avicii

[lordnathanial]

Damnit.

 

Please post your builds using Torhead skill calc if you can.

 

I hate seeing all these #/#/# builds thrown around without actually knowing exactly how you spent the points.

 

I'm trying to learn damnit haha.

 

Curious as well. Gonna look at it later and c where I might put 15 in madness.

[Xethis]

I am not negative. I am honest.

 

Because where would my credability be if I wasn't honest?

 

I'm not going to write a story full of *********** trolls and fairies just because that's what you like to see.

 

 

Its not that your negative, or dishonest. Its that you are always telling people that they are wrong. I enjoy a heated debate now and again, just as much as anyone else. But you seem to challenge everyone every chance you get.

 

For instance, someone might say "I have been running this spec (xx-xx-xx) and been having a blast with it. It might not be ideal, but I do gain a few abilities that I like." Your response to this comment would be "That spec is so inferior, the things you are sacrificing are so not worth the abilities your gaining. You need to run this spec (xx-xx-xx) its the only spec that matters so it has to be the only spec you should play."

 

I might have exaggerated a tad, but you've done something like this at least 100 times this summer. Once in a while someone will call you out on it, then you'll get real nice for a few posts, but a few days later, your right back at it again. I am sure you don't mean to do it, and I don't recall you ever insulting anyone. But what gets me is I know how wrong you are about your spec and to hear you go on and on and on about it is driving me up the wall. So much in fact that you have inspired me to make this video.

 

To be fair it isn't just you, your just the most vocal. There are lots of people that swear up and down that a spec is better than another, but they haven't even tried it. Spending a few min on a dummy or going in a few WZ's is not trying a spec out.

[Evolixe]

Its not that your negative, or dishonest. Its that you are always telling people that they are wrong. I enjoy a heated debate now and again, just as much as anyone else. But you seem to challenge everyone every chance you get.

 

For instance, someone might say "I have been running this spec (xx-xx-xx) and been having a blast with it. It might not be ideal, but I do gain a few abilities that I like." Your response to this comment would be "That spec is so inferior, the things you are sacrificing are so not worth the abilities your gaining. You need to run this spec (xx-xx-xx) its the only spec that matters so it has to be the only spec you should play."

 

I might have exaggerated a tad, but you've done something like this at least 100 times this summer. Once in a while someone will call you out on it, then you'll get real nice for a few posts, but a few days later, your right back at it again. I am sure you don't mean to do it, and I don't recall you ever insulting anyone. But what gets me is I know how wrong you are about your spec and to hear you go on and on and on about it is driving me up the wall. So much in fact that you have inspired me to make this video.

 

To be fair it isn't just you, your just the most vocal. There are lots of people that swear up and down that a spec is better than another, but they haven't even tried it. Spending a few min on a dummy or going in a few WZ's is not trying a spec out.

 

The thing is, I know what this class is capable off. Inside out, upside down.

I can imagne how a spec would turn out to work without even really trying it. Atleast from a try-worthy point of view.

 

I don't think your spec is a good one because of the following reasons:

 

- Trade Discharge for an already pretty much definite crit on Shock in case of a Recklessness

- Trade Discharge as a whole for a few more shock crits, which in turn translates to less burst because obviously 1 ability critting or two having a chance to is hardly really a contest for the 2.

- Completely lose the damage output from your stance. Which is maybe not very noticable in the short run, but VERY noticable in the long run.

 

Now in case of comparing it to full deception:

 

- Also lose 6% damage on stuns

- No damage increase below 30% health, Assassinate costs a lot of Force with nothing to make up for it since lacking Torment.

 

And to compare it to hybrid Deception (or wakajinn as whatever people want to call it..)

 

- Lose Powerful AoE pressure.

- Lose Torment

- Lose Stun cooldown reduction

- Lose Thrash damage

 

And you gain:

 

- 2 seconds more Shroud.

- Root breaking FSpeed.

- A little sturdyness against basic attacks.

 

Now when you add that all up.. and I havn't even bothered to spec it in the game yet..

Do you still think it's a good spec? Because I certainly don't.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Evolixe

[MasterFeign]

One of our best 1 vs 1 assassins on our server used a darkness/deception hybrid. A simple rotation and playstyle. But also good for 1 purpose.

[Evolixe]

One of our best 1 vs 1 assassins on our server used a darkness/deception hybrid. A simple rotation and playstyle. But also good for 1 purpose.

 

You might aswell go full darkness if you want to faceroll 1v1's tbh.

 

But yeah, it's no secret that darkness does a lot better in that segment. It just takes longer.

[Aetrus]

Evolixe, stream arenas more.

 

S'il vous plait.

[Evolixe]

Evolixe, stream arenas more.

 

S'il vous plait.

 

Pretty much imposseble atm. I actively tried getting into teams for the past 2 weeks and the amount of times I actually got into games is silly low.

 

The PTS is just too-dead.

[Xethis]

The thing is, I know what this class is capable off. Inside out, upside down.

I can imagne how a spec would turn out to work without even really trying it. Atleast from a try-worthy point of view.

 

I don't think your spec is a good one because of the following reasons:

 

- Trade Discharge for an already pretty much definite crit on Shock in case of a Recklessness

- Trade Discharge as a whole for a few more shock crits, which in turn translates to less burst because obviously 1 ability critting or two having a chance to is hardly really a contest for the 2.

- Completely lose the damage output from your stance. Which is maybe not very noticable in the short run, but VERY noticable in the long run.

 

Now in case of comparing it to full deception:

 

- Also lose 6% damage on stuns

- No damage increase below 30% health, Assassinate costs a lot of Force with nothing to make up for it since lacking Torment.

 

And to compare it to hybrid Deception (or wakajinn as whatever people want to call it..)

 

- Lose Powerful AoE pressure.

- Lose Torment

- Lose Stun cooldown reduction

- Lose Thrash damage

 

And you gain:

 

- 2 seconds more Shroud.

- Root breaking FSpeed.

- A little sturdyness against basic attacks.

 

Now when you add that all up.. and I havn't even bothered to spec it in the game yet..

Do you still think it's a good spec? Because I certainly don't.

 

The thing is, your biased. You see all the advantages of the specs you are familiar with, and just theorycraft the disadvantages of the Dark Maul spec. If you truly tried it, then you would have a far better understanding.

 

It has far more advantages and disadvantages than you mentioned. The main disadvantage is the force management. It is horrendous. You cannot just sit back and spam Thrash and Shock every time you get Energize proc. Deception, Madness and the hybrids will all do more damage because of this. The only real damage you can do through Energize costs you 45 force, and as you mentioned, you don't even get the Torment Talent. If raw damage is your deciding factor for the spec you want to play, then Dark Maul is not for you.

 

As far as the Advantages, your lack of interest to even try this spec is giving you a very biased opinion.

 

First advantage, armor and survivability. You get more armor, heals every 5 sec, you get more defense and longer Shroud. You also couple those with the already awesome talents in the Deception tree. During your Dark Embrace you have awesome staying power. One of the biggest disadvantages that Assassins have going into arenas is the fact that they are really easy to burst down with out using defensive cd's from themselves or team mates. Well, fighting in Dark Charge will give you a huge advantage in this area compared to Deception and Madness hybrids.

 

Another advantage Darkness Assassins have is the talent Disjunction. Having a snare break every 15 sec is amazing for this spec, specially since we are so susceptible to being kited.

 

Dark Maul can Guard. Out of all the tanks and tank hybrids in the game, Dark Maul is by far the most damaging spec/AC there is that can also Guard. Guarding healers is a priceless utility to have in this game. My arena team has even experimented with double Guarding set up. Our tank Guards the healer, I Guard the Mara. We really cannot be focused down. No matter who they target, they either have to deal with Guard mitigation or armor mitigation. We haven't worked out all the kinks with this comp yet, but we are definitely really hard to kill.

 

Dark Maul has burst. The opening burst that Dark Maul can dish out is more than Deception or any hybrid. During the Dark Embrace buff, it cannot be rivaled.

 

Yes there are specs that do more damage, but I truly feel that the utility you gain from being in Dark Charge is worth the cost. The reason it is still worth it, because Dark Maul can still burst. It is really hard to say if it is actually better or worse than other specs. It is fun as hell for me, I really like what it offers. That being said, I cannot wait to finish my vid so I can show you guys just how much burst I can do. There is actually another spec I want to show off too, I guarantee I will blow some minds.

[Evolixe]

Dark Maul has burst. The opening burst that Dark Maul can dish out is more than Deception or any hybrid. During the Dark Embrace buff, it cannot be rivaled.

 

That is the biggest bull of **** I have ever heared. Please, please enlighten me upon how a Shock and a Maul are going to beat a Shock a Maul and a Discharge..

 

There is absolutely no way, NO WAY, that this nonsense spec is going to rival deep deception burst. Absolutely chanceless.

 

Aside from that, you just repeated my pros and my cons, but with more words. You didn't add anything to that.

If you want to convince me, if you want to convince anyone, you'll have to come with new arguments and not just repeat what you already said.

[Xethis]

That is the biggest bull of **** I have ever heared. Please, please enlighten me upon how a Shock and a Maul are going to beat a Shock a Maul and a Discharge..

 

There is absolutely no way, NO WAY, that this nonsense spec is going to rival deep deception burst. Absolutely chanceless.

 

Aside from that, you just repeated my pros and my cons, but with more words. You didn't add anything to that.

If you want to convince me, if you want to convince anyone, you'll have to come with new arguments and not just repeat what you already said.

 

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAH! I might even release my vid early just so you can see how wrong you are lol. The reason I listed pros and cons, is because I am not biased. I love playing several specs as much as I do Dark Maul. I never once ever told you or anyone that Dark Maul is better than any spec. All I have ever stated was that it was fun and viable.

 

But I guess the statement I made about the opening burst really hurt your feelings. The thing is I parsed like 5 specs, all during the first 12 seconds (during Dark Embrace buff) to see what spec has the best opening burst. And I did this for months. Sometimes Deception does really well, but on average Dark Maul does more opening burst by 100-300dps.

 

Why do you think that I don't Discharge with the Dark Maul spec? You keep saying that I lose Discharge, I don't understand why you keep repeating that?

Edited September 15, 2013 by Xethis

[Evolixe]

Why do you think that I don't Discharge with the Dark Maul spec? You keep saying that I lose Discharge, I don't understand why you keep repeating that?

 

Because your discharge does jack all damage. I don't even use it when playing with dark charge on simply because it isn't worth using.

[LadyDarkkitten]

Because your discharge does jack all damage. I don't even use it when playing with dark charge on simply because it isn't worth using.

 

You dont use discharge as a damage move in dark charge, its low damage (about 500ish?), its used cos its a 10 yard aoe that puts accuracy debuff on each player it hits. Its damage and small heal isnt the point, unless your being kited. Also your comparing a maul, shock discharge to a double maul shock opener. Dark maul IS similar burst to deception in its first 4-6 gcds until it runs out of steam as it uses dark embrace and blackout to maul spam. Thats why 1v1 people report results with it, you can actually get a kill with it as opposed to full tankasin where I die to sents and dps shadows, as I simple cant kill them before they kill me.

[lordnathanial]

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAH! I might even release my vid early just so you can see how wrong you are lol. The reason I listed pros and cons, is because I am not biased. I love playing several specs as much as I do Dark Maul. I never once ever told you or anyone that Dark Maul is better than any spec. All I have ever stated was that it was fun and viable.

 

But I guess the statement I made about the opening burst really hurt your feelings. The thing is I parsed like 5 specs, all during the first 12 seconds (during Dark Embrace buff) to see what spec has the best opening burst. And I did this for months. Sometimes Deception does really well, but on average Dark Maul does more opening burst by 100-300dps.

 

Why do you think that I don't Discharge with the Dark Maul spec? You keep saying that I lose Discharge, I don't understand why you keep repeating that?

 

You never did post the TORhead spec for this I am curious to see where you dropped your points

[Aragost]

You dont use discharge as a damage move in dark charge, its low damage (about 500ish?), its used cos its a 10 yard aoe that puts accuracy debuff on each player it hits. Its damage and small heal isnt the point, unless your being kited. Also your comparing a maul, shock discharge to a double maul shock opener. Dark maul IS similar burst to deception in its first 4-6 gcds until it runs out of steam as it uses dark embrace and blackout to maul spam. Thats why 1v1 people report results with it, you can actually get a kill with it as opposed to full tankasin where I die to sents and dps shadows, as I simple cant kill them before they kill me.

 

If you cant win 1v1 playing as a tanksin in dps gear, you're doing it wrong.

[ishbindeinvater]

If you cant win 1v1 playing as a tanksin in dps gear, you're doing it wrong.

 

are you talking about a 12/3x/x hybrid or full darkness?

[Evolixe]

You dont use discharge as a damage move in dark charge, its low damage (about 500ish?), its used cos its a 10 yard aoe that puts accuracy debuff on each player it hits. Its damage and small heal isnt the point, unless your being kited. Also your comparing a maul, shock discharge to a double maul shock opener. Dark maul IS similar burst to deception in its first 4-6 gcds until it runs out of steam as it uses dark embrace and blackout to maul spam. Thats why 1v1 people report results with it, you can actually get a kill with it as opposed to full tankasin where I die to sents and dps shadows, as I simple cant kill them before they kill me.

 

Double maul? As in maul while it costs 60 force?

 

No thank you..

[Aragost]

are you talking about a 12/3x/x hybrid or full darkness?

 

Yeah full darkness

[MasterFeign]

Yeah full darkness

 

Any good deception assassin and perhaps Mara smash can take out a darkness dps geared assassin. Also vs. ops heals, it's a stalemate.

[Evolixe]

Any good deception assassin and perhaps Mara smash can take out a darkness dps geared assassin. Also vs. ops heals, it's a stalemate.

 

No. Darkness > Deception @ 1v1. It just takes too long to be of value in Warzones.

 

People will reinforce before you kill the player there.

[MasterFeign]

No. Darkness > Deception @ 1v1. It just takes too long to be of value in Warzones.

 

People will reinforce before you kill the player there.

 

Well yeah of course the fight will be long winded (enabling back up to come in time), but in a regular duel a deception assassin should always win.

[Aragost]

Well yeah of course the fight will be long winded (enabling back up to come in time), but in a regular duel a deception assassin should always win.

 

No, in a regular duel with 2 equally skilled players, darkness should win the majority of the time. In an area with no los, it would be very hard for any deception assasin to beat a competent darkness player.

[lordnathanial]

So I have to ask if for the purposes of objective warzones and a full darkness can withstand a deception one on one. For other than arenas doesn't it make more sense than a straight deception since more often than not you are stuck node guarding anyways and end up fighting 1v1 or 1v2?

[ishbindeinvater]

tried out 12/31/3 myself and its not easy to have enough force all the time.

 

i prefer 5/36/5 its straightforward and you always have enough force.

 

did someone try out a build with raze?

[LadyDarkkitten]

Wtb video of darkness v deception 1v1 guide. Never done it yet, unless I faced someone with l2p issues. I can sometimes force the deception to withdraw, but never seriously get close to killing him. wheras I can and have died to there burst when my breaker was on cd.