Dye Hard With a Vengeance

[Andryah]

Welcome to the discussion, we have already spoken on the matter you have brought up earlier. But I will repeat it so you can catch up.

 

Black dye costing $20.00 = O.K.

 

Black dye costing $20.00 and requiring you to buy a new one each time you change your look = Not O.K.

 

As an example, see GW2 for a system that works like SWTOR, yet does not leave players feeling ripped off. Dyes are unlocked on use, remain ridiculously expensive, and can be applied to all your armor going forward once acquired. This also bears repeating, GW2 is a B2P game with no monthly subscription that lives entirely off of cash shop purchases. It should be extremely easy to see why players feel a bit ripped off by this.

 

Simple solution. Play GW2 and discard SWTOR. Oh wait.. I know you won't.. because you are simply using rhetoric, not honest conviction here.

[Andryah]

They are rare simply because Bioware has decided they are rare.

 

They used to be rare. They won't be rare any more. They also will cost about 20% of what they used to cost to acquire as well....even less once they start selling them in packs and on spot sales on the CM.

 

If you are patient.. you will even catch one mis-listed on the GTN and get it for crackers and cheese too.

 

Personally, I don't care. Both of these dyes are over hyped and over-rated by players. They are only marginally better then other dyes readily available that achieve almost the same visual effects at a fraction of the cost. This player obsession with B/B and W/W is silly IMO. But hey.. that obsession is behind the demand and these are going to sell very well on the CM... particularly as the peg_de_jour for converting free cartel coins into credits. It will probably drive the price up on other popular items from the CM on the GTN.. simply by bleeding off supplies as coins are dropped on the obsessed_after colors instead.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Andryah

[Vis-Tecum]

And I disagree because at $20.00 it creates a new narrative for the game, and does little but alienate the player base. You are right, nobody needs to buy it. However, by giving their player base less of a reason to buy anything going forward they are creating a problem for themselves.

 

so let them create a problem for themselves. bioware had the meeting and this is what bioware chose for what ever reason, it doesn't have to be a philosophical or ethical discussion / debate on consumerism

 

quit trying to act like your a white knight for the consumer fighting the injustice of the price for fluff items, then say your just trying to prevent this type of pricing from getting out of hand and then go on to claim that your complaining for the benefit of bioware to help save their game

 

its a dye that was going for 4+milion on the gtn and was extremely rare from the packs, people complained that it was to hard to get in the packs and too expensive on the GTN. now you don't have to spend 100's of dollars on hypercrates and the gtn price is going to drop,

Edited September 6, 2013 by Vis-Tecum

[Drudenfusz]

This thread reminds me of the monocles in EVE.

Me too, but the sad thing is that I think BioWare has beaten CCP now as the new champion in redicilous pricing!

[Kurgun]

Not to beat a dead horse but it has to be beaten once more.

 

Fluff is just fluff, it has no impact on your game nor is it required to play your game. Your subscription funds content. Stuff you buy on the CM is just extra change they can pick up along the way if someone buys something.

 

If the items in question were Pay2Win or required to play the game, you might have an argument. But Dye Modules are just fluff and not required to be bought by anyone.

 

Actually for people who want their chars to have a certain look and want variety it indeed does IMPACT our game. I can not stand to have my character look like a damn clown. Most of the dyes are just piss poor and a waste of bank space. The ones people want are purposely made rare just because they want to squeeze more and more money out of us. I have been a subscriber from day one so I do support a game I enjoy but I'll be damned if I pay 20 dollars for a ONE TIME USE item that does not get entered in the my collections. It is beyond absurd.

[ImperialSun]

And not to further beat a dead horse, arguing that is fluff is a straw man argument. You are choosing to ignore the basis of the complaint, which is that for $20.00 a single use dye is a ridiculous item to be selling. It being fluff does not make it any less ridiculous, nor does it take away from the original complaint.

 

And you are choosing to ignore the fact that many many players have requested that the dyes be made available as a single purchase on the CM. That is irrefutable so saying its a ridiculous item to be selling simply highlights you being out of touch with what a lot of the community wants.

 

BW have been asked to make the dyes available as single item purchases in the CM and they have obliged. Is the price a bit steep? Probably...but these items ARE fluff...they have zero impact on the game itself...they are PURELY cosmetic and as such you have the right to buy them or you have the right to say you know what? The price is too much and im not going to buy it...thats how the free market works...

 

Driz

[Kurgun]

But it does, because it's fluff, it's optional, it's not "mandatory". There are several different ways to aquire said dye anyways if you really want it that badly.

 

I agree with the complaint that 20$ for a single dye module is silly but it's not a big deal because it's fluff that doesn't impact your gameplay at all and you don't have to buy it if you don't agree with it.

 

What a dumb argument. Gear is fluff as well is it not? Yes, it is. The only thing worth anything are the mods. So maybe Bioware should stop making gear and we all just use the same shells and acquire new mods to put in it. Since it's only fluff anyway to have our characters look a certain way. This is an MMO, looks are a major part of the reason people play them.

 

The ONLY people who defend this nonsense are those who are itching to profit in game off of this and those at bioware. This cartel market is sucking the fun out of this game, everything is about shelling out more and more real cash.

[Kurgun]

Simple solution. Play GW2 and discard SWTOR. Oh wait.. I know you won't.. because you are simply using rhetoric, not honest conviction here.

 

Aren't you due back to troll the other thread?

[ImperialSun]

What a dumb argument. Gear is fluff as well is it not? Yes, it is. The only thing worth anything are the mods. So maybe Bioware should stop making gear and we all just use the same shells and acquire new mods to put in it. Since it's only fluff anyway to have our characters look a certain way. This is an MMO, looks are a major part of the reason people play them.

 

The ONLY people who defend this nonsense are those who are itching to profit in game off of this and those at bioware. This cartel market is sucking the fun out of this game, everything is about shelling out more and more real cash.

 

Yes looks are a big part of MMORPGs and as such surely you wouldnt want everyone on your server running around looking the same as you? Would you?

 

If the BB / WW dyes are cheap EVERYONE will have them...so your "looks" arguement is illogical. You cant have it both ways...

 

Driz

[CosmicKat]

Yes looks are a big part of MMORPGs and as such surely you wouldnt want everyone on your server running around looking the same as you? Would you?

 

If the BB / WW dyes are cheap EVERYONE will have them...so your "looks" arguement is illogical. You cant have it both ways...

 

Driz

 

I don't know if you've been keeping up with current events but EVERYTHING in game is now classified as "fluff".

[ImperialSun]

I don't know if you've been keeping up with current events but EVERYTHING in game is now classified as "fluff".

 

No....fluff items are considered fluff

 

Can you buy BiS PvP or PvE gear on the CM?

 

Didnt think so

 

Driz

[CarlosTrevisan]

And I disagree because at $20.00 it creates a new narrative for the game, and does little but alienate the player base. You are right, nobody needs to buy it. However, by giving their player base less of a reason to buy anything going forward they are creating a problem for themselves.

 

Agree. Ive seen a lot of coments about the Dyes on my guild and on in game chat. Mostly have two ways:

-dont buy

-buy when arrives at GTN

 

the points is: if you are a person that gives importance to aesteics, such as me, you feel that many amor colors arent good as they can be, in each player taste, so a Dye its a nice solotion to it.

and for the ones that feel stupid to buy using CM coins and will wait until arrive on GTN, you are forgeting that you NEED someone to buy on CM and sell on GTN, and still you prefer call the buyer of stupid, feels like nonsense.

 

As ive seen before and ive posted on my sign, charge such high price for a consumable near the other CM itens can be dangerous! if ppl start to buy for this price, soon we will see the prices rise at very high levels for the new content of CM

[Kurgun]

Yes looks are a big part of MMORPGs and as such surely you wouldnt want everyone on your server running around looking the same as you? Would you?

 

If the BB / WW dyes are cheap EVERYONE will have them...so your "looks" arguement is illogical. You cant have it both ways...

 

Driz

 

What a completely stupid conclusion. But I'm done feeding the trolls, so you and your friend can go back under the bridge.

[Andryah]

Aren't you due back to troll the other thread?

 

Irony again I see.

 

You know you are wrong on this... you just cannot get out of you own way long enough to look at it and admit it.

[ImperialSun]

What a completely stupid conclusion. But I'm done feeding the trolls, so you and your friend can go back under the bridge.

 

Wait...so you are saying if the bb / ww dyes were cheap they wouldnt be everywhere within days?

 

Now THATS a completely stupid conclusion.

 

Like i said you cant have it both ways here...either looks are important or they are not...if they are important then things like bb / ww being by far and away the most popular dyes should be expensive...

 

Driz

[Andryah]

What a completely stupid conclusion. But I'm done feeding the trolls, so you and your friend can go back under the bridge.

 

That's a large bottle of weak sauce you are slinging around now.

 

You know how you can tell you have jumped the shark on a discussion? When you resort to name calling and ad hominem attacks on others rather then continue to discuss like an adult. At least attempt to discuss if you insist on name calling IMO.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Andryah

[Andryah]

..

 

You could not be more incorrect. And I see through your attempt to silence through name calling. It won't work.

 

There are no apologies in this thread whatsoever, just a more lucid and logical analysis then some are capable of embracing. If you simply cannot or will not see that this move by Bioware represents a shift to the dyes being readily available and as significantly lower costs then before they made them direct sell.. that is just willful and deliberate negligence on your part. And none of us is in any way required to forfeit forum discussion to such nonsense. Hence.. for every careless opinion expressed.. a reasoned response (with facts and support for response) will be presented. Just let us know how long you wish to proceed.

Edited September 6, 2013 by CommunityDroidEU
reply

[cashogy_reborn]

Its a rip-off, no doubt. But your also not forced to buy it with the CM, and you most certainly could grind out the credits to buy one on the GTN.

 

And nobody is forcing you to buy it.

 

So while I agree its dumb, EA/Bioware are well within their rights as business people to price it that way. And considering that a good deal of people are still likely to shell out cash for these dyes, EA/Bioware will make money off it which is the point of being a business. They are not a charity organization.

 

Also, has it been confirmed whether or not they can be added to collections? Because if they can, this is nowhere near as bad as people are saying.

Edited September 6, 2013 by cashogy_reborn

[Andryah]

It is what I was hoping for with this dye system. Unfortunately bioware thought it was a better idea to make a system to milk more and more money out of players. I am sick of them putting their profits completely above the players who support the game. It has become ALL about money to them with nonsense like this.

 

They are a for profit company.. so no.. they are not going to go belly up just to make you feel better. But let's set that very real and practical element aside..... They clearly are gutting their own dye pack sales with this move, and enabling players to direct purchase these for much less real money then was required before direct sale. And in turn.. the player trade prices are going to go down significantly as well. How can you not see that.. and dig in and insist they are simply doing it as a cash grab? They will probably be roughly revenue neutral on their end..and players will have much broader access at lower cost levels in game.

 

This is not even a debatable point.. anyone with an ounce of common sense can see this is a good move for players.. and probably revenue neutral at best for Bioware. Think man.. think. I get that it's not good enough for you.. you have made that clear. Free B/B and W/W is probably your threshold for "good enough" but I think you are going to have to meet them halfway on this one.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Andryah

[Hambunctious]

There are a lot of stupid people in the world, and this game's population has more than its fair share.

[ImperialSun]

They are a for profit company.. so no.. they are not going to go belly up just to make you feel better. But let's set that very real and practical element aside..... They clearly are gutting their own dye pack sales with this move, and enabling players to direct purchase these for much less real money then was required before direct sale. And in turn.. the player trade prices are going to go down significantly as well. How can you not see that.. and dig in and insist they are simply doing it as a cash grab? They will probably be roughly revenue neutral on their end..and players will have much broader access at lower cost levels in game.

 

This is not even a debatable point.. anyone with an ounce of common sense can see this is a good move for players.. and probably revenue neutral at best for Bioware. Think man.. think. I get that it's not good enough for you.. you have made that clear. Free B/B and W/W is probably your threshold for "good enough"

 

Now hang on a minute...you're making it sound like prior to this change players were spending hundreds of dollars to even have chance of getting these dyes...whereas now they are guaranteed to get them for just 20????

 

Your suggesting that somehow the increased availability will in turn reduce the price of said dyes on the GTN for those that dont want to spend real life cash on them? And furthermore you go on to imply that this is a GOOD thing for players in general?

 

I call shenannigans....you need to rethink your view of the world

 

Driz

[Reno_Tarshil]

Wow Leave for 3 and half hours to enjoy the second to last episode of Burn Notice and I come back to being called a troll, an apologist, using a dumb argument. Where to begin...

 

Idk how I'm a Troll when I'm merely stating my opinion as such so that's out the window.

 

I'm an apologist? I don't believe I've said sorry for anything on Bioware's Behalf in this thread. Infact speaking of the dye system, it has been the biggest let down feature of this entire year for me more than anything.

 

When they announced a Dye system was coming I thought to myself "Finally after all the time and invested hours I put into this game to try and get Green and Red BH Armor for my Merc, which btw No adaptive gear exists for that, Trust me I've looked. And when it finally was released I pretty much blew up in anger because instead of being able to have the long awaited colors I wanted, instead I got a big slap to my face about it. And to add salt to the wound, they released a Red and Green Dye module.

 

So please I am far from an apologist.

 

As for my "Dumb Argument", The Cartel Market was invented to produce fluff items to sell to people in exchange for some extra revenue. Nothing on the market or in the packs you can buy are mandatory to playing the game.

 

The gear you can buy or get in packs is pretty much Dress Up Fluff. Now, when I say Fluff, you guys are taking it as I mean it's useless. This is wrong. I happily embrace all the armor sets I currently have unlocked for my collection and I do have quite a lot unlocked. For you see, I like to play Dress up as well with my characters and I stylise each look to my liking otherwise the I can't be fully immersed in the game.

 

My point is this: Everything from the CM is optional and does not require you to buy it at all. You can buy it if you want but be prepared to pay the price being asked and if you don't like how it's being priced, Then don't buy it from them. Buy it off the GTN for credits or trade for it, idc. If you want to complain, do it with your wallet and don't buy it, no one is forcing you too.

[Hambunctious]

Anyone remember Baghdad Bob? That guy cracked me up with his absurd comments.

 

I also get a vibe of Kevin Bacon's character in Animal House in this thread. All is well! lol

Edited September 6, 2013 by Hambunctious

[Andryah]

"If I restate it enough times.. "

 

Would that not be akin to tilting at windmills?

 

Driz

 

Ironic.... isn't it?

 

Sometimes in counterinsurgency work.. one must apply asymmetric principles.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Andryah

[Hambunctious]

"If I restate it enough times.. "

 

Would that not be akin to tilting at windmills?

 

Driz

 

That person isn't going to change anyone's mind, and all the rest of us can do is keep speaking out about it. I've seen some inane stuff here, but some people go way over the top.