Why are we nerfing Pyrotech again?

[RancidGuy]

You(bioware) have absolutely made my class unplayable in ranked, Advanced prototype is good, it is what I run now, but it is no where near what Pyro was. Pyrotech is already pretty bad as it is, why are you(bioware) nerfing it further. If anything it needs a buff to even TRY and keep up with Smash or any other spec really. I want/demand Reasoning/answer for doing this. You are taking my Favorite class in the entire game and literally ruining it.

 

I should be able to lay any class in ranked and have a shot at keeping up with any other class. But no, in PvP there is just a bunch of keyboard warrior Smash bombers with no idea what a skill rotation is. This literally drives me to the point of just unsubbing and I want to know why you want to drive the ppl that pay for this game away.

 

I play this because I love star wars, not because bio ware is a good company. I also play this because I have friends that play this and its about good times and fun.

 

I would really enjoy if a bioware employee would shed insight into this and if you are a Pyrotech/Powertech and read this and are also disgusted plz leave me your thoughts and maybe add onto what you would like to see done

[Helig]

There are significant buffs to Pyro survivability and to AP damage. Overall Pyro damage does not change a whole lot in 2.4.

 

Stop listening to the vocal drama queens that start squealing without even seeing what the changes are about.

[RancidGuy]

They are continuing to take away damage that we deal away, AP got/is getting good buffs, but Pyro is still completely out of the question for ranked, I love my PT, it is my fav character why should smash out dps me by such a large amount? Pyro use to keep up damage wise with every class and it got nerfed, why not smash yet? I demand to know why Smash still runs free but god forbid Pyro get any sort of DECENT buff

[Helig]

They are continuing to take away damage that we deal away, AP got/is getting good buffs, but Pyro is still completely out of the question for ranked, I love my PT, it is my fav character why should smash out dps me by such a large amount? Pyro use to keep up damage wise with every class and it got nerfed, why not smash yet? I demand to know why Smash still runs free but god forbid Pyro get any sort of DECENT buff

Then how come this character isn't even in your sig?

 

Also, why so hung up on Pyro? AP performs very well in Arena on the PTS. I personally prefer the AP playstyle, and I'll be excited to spec out of tank for a change on my own 'Tech. Every class has specs that underperform in PvP. I'd rather give Shield a little boost to be closer to Juggernaut tanks in terms of mitigation. Right now, I love the utility and the tactical flexbility, but a small, spot defensive cooldown would be super-nice.

[RancidGuy]

I love Pyro and it use to be good, very good I am just wondering why they keep screwing over this spec, I like AP, I do I really do, but I enjoy pyro more but it doesn't do the damage. This comes down to I like the lore of my PT and I like pyro and there was no reason to nerf it in the first place

[mfourcustom]

They'll never buff the damage/burst of the pyro spec ever again they don't like the spec or the advanced class in general its not a sniper, op heal, mara or jug... you either reroll to one of the god classes listed above or do what the rest of us who liked our pyros did and Get over it and unsub. Edited September 3, 2013 by mfourcustom

[nomadh]

Then how come this character isn't even in your sig?

 

Also, why so hung up on Pyro? AP performs very well in Arena on the PTS. I personally prefer the AP playstyle, and I'll be excited to spec out of tank for a change on my own 'Tech. Every class has specs that underperform in PvP. I'd rather give Shield a little boost to be closer to Juggernaut tanks in terms of mitigation. Right now, I love the utility and the tactical flexbility, but a small, spot defensive cooldown would be super-nice.

 

Dude you just gave the answer to your own first question. You prefer AP playstyle, i prefer Pyro style. It's a matter of taste. Neither is bad or good.

I usually play only one char in every mmo, yes i do roll others and cap their level but i always stick to the one i love and prefer. I dont reroll mains just because they are FOTM or FOTY or even best of the worse choice.

 

IMHO all classes should be playable and should be able to perform well in their role, brining specific utility to the group. The balance should be done in that direction not with zero sum strategy.

 

Personally, i was really angry when PT got nerfed, i complained about our poor defences even before 2.0 but i lived with that. I rolled other chars and leveled them because i was plain bored and then after i got them all to 55 i just left them there and went back to Bounty Hunter.

For some people that rolled warriors since the start (not FOTM rerollers) this game has been a blast. For people like me who will stick to play PT even after months of nerfs this game became the worst MMO disappointment of all times.

[JediMasterSLC]

As someone whose favorite spec is watchman on my sentinel, I feel for you OP, and the typical stupid response "but AP is good you should just be content with that spec" reminds me of people telling me it's ok that watchman sucks because I can just respec and smash all day-yawn.

 

I'd like to know where you're getting the notion that pyro is getting nerfed though.... they're receiving some pretty decent defensive buffs, and putting some of the thermal det damage back into the initial explosion and not as much the dot. Please link a patch note of whatever nerf you think you're receiving. Even with the upcoming buffs, pyro still won't be as good as AP however.

[Kazordan]

Well, it seems that pretty much across the board, each AC has 2 out of 3 specs which are decent/good to great in pvp (except maybe sorcs).

 

PT - Shield and AP: good. Pyro: subpar

Sins - Darkness and Deception: decent/good. Madness: subpar

Sniper - MM and Lethality: decent/good. Engineering: subpar (guessing here, but don't know a single sniper who plays Engineering)

Jugg - Immortal and Rage: good/great. Vengeance: subpar

Marauder - Carnage/Rage: decent/great. (Carnage can be great in the right players hands though) Anni: subpar

Mercenary - Bodyguard/Arsenal: decent/great. (although I know a couple great Merc healers) Pyro: subpar

Sorcerer - Corruption/Lightning/Madness: good/great. Circumstances can make a spec subpar, but that is to be expected. (and they can H2Full right? Sorry, couldn't resist)

Operative - Medicine/Concealment/Lethality: good/great. Some say concealment is subpar, but not the Ops in my guild, they totally wreck people. They do the same with Lethality as well.

 

Like Meatloaf says, 2 out of 3 ain't bad right?

 

I personally think that dot specs are better for PvE than they are for PvP, just due to the length of the fight. That is one reason why I don't play full madness on my sorc, because while the numbers look good on paper, alot of it is fluff damage and its really hard to kill someone when needed. But in a long fight, those dots add up and mean something more. In pvp, those dots still hurt, but so often the target is dead from a smasher or another bursty spec that those dots don't see their entire duration completed.

 

If Pyro is a dot spec, as many have speculated, then perhaps that is why it doesn't perform so well in pvp anymore. I have no idea how the numbers parse and as I have read it doesn't stack up nearly the way that it used to or against the bursty specs out there. So I am speculating as well. With that being said though, I still see some Pyro PT's out there who do excellent damage (at least on the scoreboard anyway), but those are a minority now. I think it takes someone who has real skill to do that these days, but it is possible. Big numbers are possible though. With my AP PT I put up 1.4mil damage in a non-ranked Civil War, which I couldn't believe. Granted the other team had alot of heals and there were few deaths in the match though.

 

My personal opinion is that Pyro's need a slight bump to their damage, but I don't know what and by how much. If the intention is that they should be a dot spec, then as others have suggested, the CGC damage probably needs to be bumped back up and maybe they need to increase the damage for the TD more. But I have no idea really.

[Brunner_Venda]

I love Pyro and it use to be good, very good I am just wondering why they keep screwing over this spec, I like AP, I do I really do, but I enjoy pyro more but it doesn't do the damage. This comes down to I like the lore of my PT and I like pyro and there was no reason to nerf it in the first place

 

I learned to like AP a lot more personally. The spec is all about landing a three stack PFT every time you cast it without being CC'ed or pointed in the wrong direction. It's not easy to do, because your one slow really sucks and good players don't sit in your forward arc if they can help it (circle strafe). I know players that never miss with it. I've been landing three out of four or so with practice. Plus - AP has a built in 30% nerf to stupid derp smash.

 

Pyro got a boost to TD up front burst, and two really good survivability CD's. They didnt buff damage, but with the extra survivability we should be able to better deliver what we have.

 

PT will be competitive again. The only change I don't like is the flame thrower nerf. AP can use it to effect but that sucks for everyone else.

[Luckeyduckey]

I learned to like AP a lot more personally. The spec is all about landing a three stack PFT every time you cast it without being CC'ed or pointed in the wrong direction. It's not easy to do, because your one slow really sucks and good players don't sit in your forward arc if they can help it (circle strafe). I know players that never miss with it. I've been landing three out of four or so with practice. Plus - AP has a built in 30% nerf to stupid derp smash.

 

Pyro got a boost to TD up front burst, and two really good survivability CD's. They didnt buff damage, but with the extra survivability we should be able to better deliver what we have.

 

PT will be competitive again. The only change I don't like is the flame thrower nerf. AP can use it to effect but that sucks for everyone else.

Only tanks and AP should use FT. Pyro shouldn't use FT unless there are a large amount of enemies in one spot, so it's not too common. AP's FT got a MASSIVE buff, 90% slow, 30% surge buff, plus the 60% damage already, and a reduced cost? >.>

I play Pyro, and I'll always play Pyro. But I like that AP is a viable spec if I get bored.

[Brunner_Venda]

Only tanks and AP should use FT. Pyro shouldn't use FT unless there are a large amount of enemies in one spot, so it's not too common. AP's FT got a MASSIVE buff, 90% slow, 30% surge buff, plus the 60% damage already, and a reduced cost? >.>

I play Pyro, and I'll always play Pyro. But I like that AP is a viable spec if I get bored.

 

Exactly, it's still a damage nerf to tanks though, even with flame engine.

[TonyDragonflame]

You(bioware) have absolutely made my class unplayable in ranked, Advanced prototype is good, it is what I run now, but it is no where near what Pyro was. Pyrotech is already pretty bad as it is, why are you(bioware) nerfing it further. If anything it needs a buff to even TRY and keep up with Smash or any other spec really. I want/demand Reasoning/answer for doing this. You are taking my Favorite class in the entire game and literally ruining it.

 

I should be able to lay any class in ranked and have a shot at keeping up with any other class. But no, in PvP there is just a bunch of keyboard warrior Smash bombers with no idea what a skill rotation is.

 

Pyro PT complains what Smash monkey requires no skill...

Muahahahaha :D:D

 

/facepalm

/trollface

 

#thread

[wildcoast]

Well, it seems that pretty much across the board, each AC has 2 out of 3 specs which are decent/good to great in pvp (except maybe sorcs).

 

Mercenary - Bodyguard/Arsenal: decent/great. (although I know a couple great Merc healers) Pyro: subpar

 

You really think that a merc/commando healer is decent/great in pvp?!?!?

 

You basically only get Arsenal/Gunnery, that's 1 out of 3 specs, and even then it's still not as good as several other dps specs out there.

Edited September 3, 2013 by wildcoast

[BraaxusKun]

I love Pyro and it use to be good, very good I am just wondering why they keep screwing over this spec, I like AP, I do I really do, but I enjoy pyro more but it doesn't do the damage. This comes down to I like the lore of my PT and I like pyro and there was no reason to nerf it in the first place

 

 

It was nerfed because its 2 button rotation was stupidly OP and that's why you and 99% of other powertechs are still crying about it, AP is an amazing spec, deal with it.

[Kazordan]

You really think that a merc/commando healer is decent/great in pvp?!?!?

 

You basically only get Arsenal/Gunnery, that's 1 out of 3 specs, and even then it's still not as good as several other dps specs out there.

 

You are probably right for the masses that it is subpar, the only reason that I listed it as decent was because I know several good merc healers who can put up some great numbers. If they are able to squeeze it out where it is good, then I figured the masses could be decent at it. I could be wrong though. I know virtually nothing about Merc healers other than being healed by them, lol.

 

I also probably should have listed each one individually for clarity. I would say that the Merc Healer is decent, while Arsenal is great. I know Arsenal Mercs have a list of complaints as well, but I have seen many excellent Arsenal Mercs who absolutely trash people. If its not great, then its definitely in the good category.

[stringcat]

Well, it seems that pretty much across the board, each AC has 2 out of 3 specs which are decent/good to great in pvp (except maybe sorcs).

 

PT - Shield and AP: good. Pyro: subpar

Sins - Darkness and Deception: decent/good. Madness: subpar

Sniper - MM and Lethality: decent/good. Engineering: subpar (guessing here, but don't know a single sniper who plays Engineering)

Jugg - Immortal and Rage: good/great. Vengeance: subpar

Marauder - Carnage/Rage: decent/great. (Carnage can be great in the right players hands though) Anni: subpar

Mercenary - Bodyguard/Arsenal: decent/great. (although I know a couple great Merc healers) Pyro: subpar

Sorcerer - Corruption/Lightning/Madness: good/great. Circumstances can make a spec subpar, but that is to be expected. (and they can H2Full right? Sorry, couldn't resist)

Operative - Medicine/Concealment/Lethality: good/great. Some say concealment is subpar, but not the Ops in my guild, they totally wreck people. They do the same with Lethality as well.

 

Like Meatloaf says, 2 out of 3 ain't bad right?

.

 

Any spec can be played well in regs in the hands of the right player. It's only in competitive play (ranked) that balance issues really become apparent. Certain specs are absolutely not wanted, or are wanted only in very limited circumstances. For example, Operative healers are the norm. Sorcerer healers are not desirable, and mercenary healers are wanted even less (the ability to heal on Voidstar defense is desired, but you bring Mercenaries for DPS/switch healing, not as primary healers). Jugg DPS is not desirable, because juggs are so much squishier than marauders. Etc.

 

As for regs-- All classes have specs that are less popular. But some specs are much worse off than others. For example, I wouldn't call Engineering "subpar" in regs. It's way more fun than Lethality or MM, and you can still readily top killing blows/damage if you're comfortable with it. It's also the best dueling spec. It's unusual because it plays a bit differently than the other sniper specs, but it's not a weak spec.

 

Similarly, Vengeance is less popular than Rage, because it doesn't have the sheer damage/burst potential. But Vengeance is still perfectly viable in regular warzones.

 

In contrast, Merc Pyro and PT Pyro just suck.

Edited September 3, 2013 by stringcat

[foxmob]

You(bioware) have absolutely made my class unplayable in ranked, Advanced prototype is good, it is what I run now, but it is no where near what Pyro was. Pyrotech is already pretty bad as it is, why are you(bioware) nerfing it further. If anything it needs a buff to even TRY and keep up with Smash or any other spec really. I want/demand Reasoning/answer for doing this. You are taking my Favorite class in the entire game and literally ruining it.

 

I should be able to lay any class in ranked and have a shot at keeping up with any other class. But no, in PvP there is just a bunch of keyboard warrior Smash bombers with no idea what a skill rotation is. This literally drives me to the point of just unsubbing and I want to know why you want to drive the ppl that pay for this game away.

 

I play this because I love star wars, not because bio ware is a good company. I also play this because I have friends that play this and its about good times and fun.

 

I would really enjoy if a bioware employee would shed insight into this and if you are a Pyrotech/Powertech and read this and are also disgusted plz leave me your thoughts and maybe add onto what you would like to see done

I'm sorry, but the bolded bit made me laugh. are you trolling? if you are, this is 10/10. calling out smashtard roto when you want to play pyro?

 

I'm a VG/PT, and I think that's laughable.

[foxmob]

You are probably right for the masses that it is subpar, the only reason that I listed it as decent was because I know several good merc healers who can put up some great numbers. If they are able to squeeze it out where it is good, then I figured the masses could be decent at it. I could be wrong though. I know virtually nothing about Merc healers other than being healed by them, lol.

 

I also probably should have listed each one individually for clarity. I would say that the Merc Healer is decent, while Arsenal is great. I know Arsenal Mercs have a list of complaints as well, but I have seen many excellent Arsenal Mercs who absolutely trash people. If its not great, then its definitely in the good category.

 

it's easy to put up good numbers on a merc/mando healer who isn't pressured because you can manage your resources pretty casually. however, once you make him move, you may never kill him, but he won't be healing anyone but himself and a kolto for his buddies. either of the other healing classes are much better with resources and healing other members of the team.

 

:2cents: from a nothing special mando healer.

[So-low]

I'd like to know where you're getting the notion that pyro is getting nerfed though.... they're receiving some pretty decent defensive buffs, and putting some of the thermal det damage back into the initial explosion and not as much the dot. Please link a patch note of whatever nerf you think you're receiving.

 

They are nerfing flameburst so that it only has a 60% chance to proc the CGC dot instead of the 100% its been since launch, and giving the 4m ability rocket punch the 100% proc chance. Given that the spec was already underperforming, this QOL nerf makes no sense to me.

 

Despite all the raving about the defensive buffs, the spec will still not be viable for arenas because it lacks burst AND sustained damage. It's like a slightly less squishy madness sin with no stealth.

[Brunner_Venda]

They are nerfing flameburst so that it only has a 60% chance to proc the CGC dot instead of the 100% its been since launch, and giving the 4m ability rocket punch the 100% proc chance. Given that the spec was already underperforming, this QOL nerf makes no sense to me.

 

Despite all the raving about the defensive buffs, the spec will still not be viable for arenas because it lacks burst AND sustained damage. It's like a slightly less squishy madness sin with no stealth.

 

We should still be able to keep CGC up well enough between rotations. On the bad side, we can't snare with rapid shots.

 

On the plus side, sweltering heat is now a six second snare for 30% instead of 20% for two seconds. That's a fairly major buff.

 

The overall effect will be meh. It mostly evens out.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Brunner_Venda