Why Smash Should Not be Nerfed

[ShatteredVision]

As I said earlier in the thread, I don't give a flying jawa what changes they make, if they make any at all. I'm not a mouthbreather, therefore smash doesn't impact me very much. This is a l2p issue, sorry. If my comments don't hold water, it's because you're not very good. I've yet to play a spec that can't do something to defend against smash, talented or simply using your natural class abilities. At what point do the whiners take accountability for their own play? I quit playing smash eventually, because it got boring and was easily neutralized by quality opponents. Vengeance is the better build for my tastes. You have fun with your delusions, though. l2p/h2f/gg

[NathanielStarr]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Have you even played smash? One thing I learned pretty quickly was particularly interesting: good players were easy to spot, because they didn't get smashed nearly as much as most other players. Now, either every good player is using z0mghax (they weren't), or they knew what they were doing. It's super easy to lead in damage in smash...against inexperienced players who aren't very good. Competent players EASILY neutralize smash. Smash takes up so much dps in warzones, because most players are not competent players.

 

Btw the Achillies' Heel to smash is pretty simple. Don't let them smash you.

 

I guess I'm not good enough to stop a person from pushing buttons on their keyboard. Somehow you can be so good the tab will not target you.

[Savej]

On my sent I would trade gbtf for a stun in a heartbeat. What's better? Losing half your health and ignoring most of an attacker's damage for a few seconds or... stopping them from attacking, cc'imng, moving and healing for a few seconds?

 

And no, no mara is going to do a master strike and a smash every 4 seconds. it is possible for a smasher to do those two attacks, back-to-back, once every minute or so, assuming the smasher has used a leap recently and has singularities up... so what? Master strike is very telegraphed/visible and gets interrupted most of the time. Vigilance guardians, with luck, can pop almost back-to-back master strikes - no one cares.

[iheartnyc]

Not sure if trolling or clueless. Only marauders, AP PTs and MM Snipers have aoe reduction talent/skill. Also you have 2 charge, one of them can be used while immobilized. Get your facts straight before posting, k thx bai

 

Not sure if failed to learn to read, as I never made any of the points that you try to refute in your post. I said what I said, nothing more, so no need to reply to phantom arguments.

[KhalDrogoe]

Ah, that's a new take on "don't nerf me".

 

Bwahahaha!

 

What really got me was him saying he needs all those defensive CD's because he takes so much damage. Brah if warriors were balanced with everyone else, you probably wouldn't be targeted as much and therefor not needing all those DCD's.

[iheartnyc]

Bwahahaha!

 

What really got me was him saying he needs all those defensive CD's because he takes so much damage. Brah if warriors were balanced with everyone else, you probably wouldn't be targeted as much and therefor not needing all those DCD's.

 

Or, what I'm actually saying is that once a Smasher is targeted, the Smasher cannot otherwise kite you or protect himself. It has no sustainable ranged DPS capability, and once he's face-tanking, he needs a pocket healer/guard to stay alive, and if he doesn't have that, then he can try to get away using his defensive CDs.

[iheartnyc]

I've seen a lot of knee-jerk reaction responses, people getting offended, and people just being outright silly in this thread because I posted an opinion that may differ from yours.

 

The class balance in this game is more complicated than simply "nerfing smash and OP healer" yet our discussions on this tend to devolve into personal attacks and hyperbole.

 

You can disagree with my ideas, but people who think things are obvious or simple, or try to simplify problems into easily digestible one-liners, tend to be obvious and simplistic-minded.

Edited September 3, 2013 by iheartnyc

[Helig]

Undying is a problem for the entire class. A class that has plentyful survivability without it.

 

So yeah, it should be removed.

Carnage is overpowered? News to me.

 

Undying isn't a problem. A class that requires so much target uptime, is always exposed to targetting and all sorts of CC, and has the passive defenses of a paperbag simply cannot survive on 1 3-minute Blade Ward. In thick fights, camo is essentially a detarget/channel break, but, unless you're instantly going back to doing damage to the target, you're essentially neutralized, which is one of the puposes of incoming damage. Cloak of Pain boosts your survivability to about what a Vengeance Juggernaut has passive, but it falls off more often than it should. Once it does, you're back to paperbag status. Max duration should be cut (like in half), cooldown should also be reduced (proportionally).

 

Once again, Marauder defensive cooldowns aren't a problem. How Smash synergizes with healing and other Smashtards is what causes the most grief. He's about to die=>camo, healed to full. He's about to die a second time=>Undying, healed to full. This synergy should be nerfed. I can easily see Camo cutting healing done by other players to you by 50%, and Undying, symbolically, by 99%.

[szczypaczek]

mars dcds are a problem, with decent healer u just cant focus them down, cause they pop undying and get healed to full Why maruder should have 60k hp ?

[NogueiraA]

People I'll say again, please do not forget Marauder has no 4sec stun.

[Xanas]

@maverickmatt

 

Snipers are relatively easy to kill. If we are picking easy kill targets, it's Sorc>Assassin>Sniper>Op DPS>Jugg Smash> Merc.

 

However... Sniper-killing requires that you have at least a couple DCDs available (preferrably Reflect)

 

Any sniper that shoots me when i pop reflect is... Well not that smart. I do find some that do... I can imagine his face when they lose 40% hp by shooting me.

Any sniper that knows what he is doing (not many true) are going to be in a place where you can't LOS to get to him... Add to this that damn stun immunity and how are you even going to hit him? Let's assume you get to him trough ALL your CD's... You get CC'ed and they roll... Back to "punching bag guardian" again...

You can't forge push them, you can't choke him...

 

I do put up a fight (i play vigilance) but any sniper that knows what he is doing... There is NO way i take him down... On Hutball where he can be up there on the ramps? I am complete free food to him.

If they have that AOE damage reduction and you play rage/focus? lol just lol. The sniper would need to be a complete noob to lose to that.

 

Seriously any sniper that would lose to a guardian needs to LTP.

[Helig]

mars dcds are a problem, with decent healer u just cant focus them down, cause they pop undying and get healed to full Why maruder should have 60k hp ?

So you're basically saying what I'm saying - what worries you is the synergy between Marauder cooldowns and healing.

[iheartnyc]

People I'll say again, please do not forget Marauder has no 4sec stun.

 

Overplayed and overdone. The vast majority of people calling for nerfs of any class do not know how to make a coherent argument and offer a solution without making personal attacks and jokes that are no longer funny, which is why not a single viable solution has yet been implemented.

 

The very fact that people are making counter-arguments and that this thread has grown so fast with differing opinions shows how complicated this balance issue really is. Those calling for nerfs through one-liners such as this are doing a disservice to your own cause.

 

"Heal to full!"

"4 second stun!"

"Make them pay!"

 

Yeah yeah it was funny the 100th time.

Edited September 3, 2013 by iheartnyc

[Evolixe]

Carnage is overpowered? News to me.

 

Undying isn't a problem. A class that requires so much target uptime, is always exposed to targetting and all sorts of CC, and has the passive defenses of a paperbag simply cannot survive on 1 3-minute Blade Ward. In thick fights, camo is essentially a detarget/channel break, but, unless you're instantly going back to doing damage to the target, you're essentially neutralized, which is one of the puposes of incoming damage. Cloak of Pain boosts your survivability to about what a Vengeance Juggernaut has passive, but it falls off more often than it should. Once it does, you're back to paperbag status. Max duration should be cut (like in half), cooldown should also be reduced (proportionally).

 

Once again, Marauder defensive cooldowns aren't a problem. How Smash synergizes with healing and other Smashtards is what causes the most grief. He's about to die=>camo, healed to full. He's about to die a second time=>Undying, healed to full. This synergy should be nerfed. I can easily see Camo cutting healing done by other players to you by 50%, and Undying, symbolically, by 99%.

 

Requires so much target uptime? Why? Why do they require that?

 

Last time I checked, it was okay if you would be forced to hold back and play defensively for a brief moment when you get low. Not be even more offensive because your cooldown will handle it anyway.

 

Undying is stupid, marauders should have to fall back everytime they have to use undying now rather than steamrolling forwards. And if you can't do that, you die. Simple as that.

 

I've seen a lot of knee-jerk reaction responses, people getting offended, and people just being outright silly in this thread because I posted an opinion that may differ from yours.

 

The only person that has been silly in this thread is yourself. I mean really, look at your OP, your arguments are outright stupid and not even worth taking seriously.

[iheartnyc]

Requires so much target uptime? Why? Why do they require that?

 

Last time I checked, it was okay if you would be forced to hold back and play defensively for a brief moment when you get low. Not be even more offensive because your cooldown will handle it anyway.

 

Undying is stupid, marauders should have to fall back everytime they have to use undying now rather than steamrolling forwards. And if you can't do that, you die. Simple as that.

 

 

 

The only person that has been silly in this thread is yourself. I mean really, look at your OP, your arguments are outright stupid and not even worth taking seriously.

 

Opinions, opinions. Why oh why do people have opinions that are different than mine?

 

I think maybe you're just not smart enough to understand the point of my thread or the reason I phrased my OP the way it was.

 

Since you seem to be a judge on silly behavior, please try to be objective and tell me how the 1000 posts about "nerf smash b/c they can't heal to full lulzzz" are not silly, repetitive, simplistic to a fault and not even funny.

Edited September 3, 2013 by iheartnyc

[Evolixe]

Opinions, opinions. Why oh why do people have opinions that are different than mine?

 

If your "opinion" wouldn't be so blind and biased, and your arguments would actually be valid, then I wouldn't be talking to you the way I am.

[iheartnyc]

If your "opinion" wouldn't be so blind and biased, and your arguments would actually be valid, then I wouldn't be talking to you the way I am.

 

Right, like the dozens of NERF SMASH can't heal to full! threads are not blind, biased, and actually not even really well reasoned and are written by people crying about something they don't really understand without offering reasonable solutions to a complex balance issue?

 

I don't recall you calling those people out, so who exactly is biased and blind? Get over yourself.

Edited September 3, 2013 by iheartnyc

[szczypaczek]

So you're basically saying what I'm saying - what worries you is the synergy between Marauder cooldowns and healing.

 

i'm saying that smash maruders have too much survivability, and undying rage in its current form is a joke

 

Op u didn't post any good arguments either, you are just afraid of a nerf that is fully justified.

Edited September 3, 2013 by szczypaczek

[Evolixe]

Right, like the dozens of NERF SMASH can't heal to full! threads are not blind, biased, and actually not even really well reasoned but just people crying without offering even the most basic of solutions to a complex balance issue?

 

I don't recall you calling those people out, so who exactly is biased and blind? Get over yourself.

 

Because those people are ignored by the general community. You aren't.

[iheartnyc]

i'm saying that smash maruders have too much survivability, and undying rage in its current form is a joke

 

And yet you, like most other people who make these claims, can't seem to articulate exactly how they have too much survivability or why something is a joke?

 

If they nerf healing in this game, the exact thing you are worried about, which is being healed to full while using its DCDs, will be mitigated.

 

Voila, there's one alternate solution to the balance problem.

[iheartnyc]

Because those people are ignored by the general community. You aren't.

 

I wrote my OP to be provactive and get people to consider other options. Too many people are jumping on the "nerf smash" bandwagon without giving a second thought to the bigger fundamental balance problems in this game.

 

I promise you, nerfing smash and stopping there will not fix anything. Smash is not the problem. The overall balance of the game is messed up and unless you carefully adjust all of the pieces you're going to be left with yet the next OP classs. Someone smarter than me said this game is balanced around melee, and changing the way melee operates without careful adjustments throughout will result in serious playability issues.

 

Healing as a whole needs to be looked at.

Other DPS specs need to be looked at (DOTs?)

 

Maybe Smash being toned down is part of those two solutions and I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is Smash being a scapegoat or the easy way out for dealing with the larger balance issues that currently exist.

 

I don't see anyone trying to have a serious discussion about overall balance. It's just "wah nerf this nerf that" and it is extremely counterproductive and really is distracting from the real problems.

Edited September 3, 2013 by iheartnyc

[szczypaczek]

hahah good joke nerf healing cause maruders are too strong. healing problem that's just another story.

 

Undying rage needs to go, 4 sec of immortality is a bit too much for a ultimate dps class

[iheartnyc]

hahah good joke nerf healing cause maruders are too strong. healing problem that's just another story.

 

Undying rage needs to go, 4 sec of immortality is a bit too much for a ultimate dps class

 

Healing needs to be looked at = we need to think about whether healers should be able to keep up their team indefinitely (which is the current status quo), or whether healers should just be a mechanism to delay the inevitable wipe of your team.

 

I suspect PVE has something to do with the healing in PVP (e.g., guarded healers keeping up the raid group). But whether this should be the case in PVP, I personally disagree with this but that's for the community to first realize that this doesn't have to be the case, and then decide whether they like the current PVE-style implementation of healing in a PVP setting.

[Evolixe]

I wrote my OP to be provactive and get people to consider other options. Too many people are jumping on the "nerf smash" bandwagon without giving a second thought to the bigger fundamental balance problems in this game.

 

I promise you, nerfing smash and stopping there will not fix anything. Smash is not the problem. The overall balance of the game is messed up and unless you carefully adjust all of the pieces you're going to be left with yet the next OP classs. Someone smarter than me said this game is balanced around melee, and changing the way melee operates without careful adjustments throughout will result in serious playability issues.

 

Healing as a whole needs to be looked at.

Other DPS specs need to be looked at (DOTs?)

 

Maybe Smash being toned down is part of those two solutions and I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is Smash being a scapegoat or the easy way out for dealing with the larger balance issues that currently exist.

 

I don't see anyone trying to have a serious discussion about overall balance. It's just "wah nerf this nerf that" and it is extremely counterproductive and really is distracting from the real problems.

 

Implying I, or even other people think that nerfing smash is the only thing that needs to be done. It's just among the long list of things that should be done. And it should be done.

[iheartnyc]

Implying I, or even other people think that nerfing smash is the only thing that needs to be done. It's just among the long list of things that should be done. And it should be done.

 

A reasonable inference to make when the vast majority of the discussion surrounding class balance seems to be focused around "nerf smash", or satire posts like "smash needs buff b/c can't heal to full!". Most people on these forums don't see to want to discuss or complain about the other balance stuff that needs to be done.