Kaggath Tournament - Droid Supremacy vs Undying Brotherhood

[Aurbere]

Ok, well G0-T0 will run the numbers and determine it is best to out-produce UB. Guri will go along with it and PROXY and HK-01 can infiltrate the DS and begin to implant their programming into the faction's droids. As this buildup continues I see Grievous itching for a fight and Malgus getting impatient. These two will seek to make the first blow in order to prove to the Sith they lead that they aren't cowards.

 

What droids? The Brotherhood is a mainly biological army. The only droids there would be utility droids and the like. Not the most useful in a military sense, but a neat little method for diversion/sabotage.

 

They will unleash their full forces on Mon Cal rather quickly as it is the closest to them. So here is a question, Mon Cal is rather far away from the rest of DS's planets, so what does everyone think will happen here?

 

Well, I'm still wondering where the naval forces are located exactly. I believe that they are situated at the shipyards. So if the Brotherhood attacks Mon Cal, they will be outnumbered and outmatched. Provided a large number of Supremacy ships are Venators and MC80s.

 

However, the Brotherhood will always have the advantage in tacticians.

 

From there G0-T0 is forced to respond to the damage/loss of Mon Cal and the shipyards so he leads a majority of his force to defend/retrieve Mon Cal. From there he and UB will have to fight (somewhere I'm not sure where, probably Lianna or DK) and G0-T0 will spring his (not quite prepared) plan on them. Their droids will attack them (albeit fewer than G0-T0 and HK-01 would have liked) and it will temporarily distract them.

 

As previously mentioned, I don't see any military droids in the Brotherhood. So if there are droids, they are likely utility droids. Which alters your plan slightly.

 

From there G0-T0 will use the distraction to swarm across DK. I see Malgus fighting them on the ground to the last as Grievous runs. After that the Sith lose respect for Grievous and a divided UB is ripped apart from the inside as G0-T0 usues Guri, PROXY, and HK-01 to carry out assassinations, terror attacks, and sabotage to further manipulate and exacerbate the divisions.

 

I don't think Grievous is just going to run away. Everybody expects that, don't they?

 

/sigh

 

I miss the old Grievous.

 

Also, Ventress and Durge... how will these two factor into this? Seems like a pretty sick assassination team to me.

 

Fairly effective, I think. I wonder if Ventress and Durge could fake an allegiance with G0-T0...

 

Playing neutral. I don't care who wins as long as Warren and Selenial are pitted against each other next.

[StarSquirrel]

If the majority of the DS's fleet is at Mon Cal, it'd be a hard battle for the UB to win.

 

Assassinating any of the DS leaders will be hard. Finding them is next to impossible.

 

Agreed on point #2 (Stop treating me like the enemy here! oh, and someone needs to argue for Marcelo, poor guy is getting creamed.)

 

As to point 1, Mon Cal is the closest planet, if they don't attack it then I don't think they can really attack anything.

[tunewalker]

I will help Marc tonight after my raid just busy right now..... if I can if after looking through everything I can bring myself to help Marc I will.

[StarSquirrel]

What droids? The Brotherhood is a mainly biological army. The only droids there would be utility droids and the like. Not the most useful in a military sense, but a neat little method for diversion/sabotage.

 

Yes, I was aware of that when I posted my thoughts. Every ship and army in SW (save for a select few) uses utility droids, those are what I propose will turn on the UB.

 

Well, I'm still wondering where the naval forces are located exactly. I believe that they are situated at the shipyards. So if the Brotherhood attacks Mon Cal, they will be outnumbered and outmatched. Provided a large number of Supremacy ships are Venators and MC80s.

 

However, the Brotherhood will always have the advantage in tacticians.

Totally agree.

 

 

As previously mentioned, I don't see any military droids in the Brotherhood. So if there are droids, they are likely utility droids. Which alters your plan slightly.

 

Not really, they're a minor distraction that also slows the efficiency and effectiveness of the UB war machine as well as breeds paranoia among a naturally paranoid society.

 

I don't think Grievous is just going to run away. Everybody expects that, don't they?

 

/sigh

 

I miss the old Grievous.

/sigh

 

So do I... I loved the scene in the old CW series where he kills like 4 jedi in true horror movie fashion.

 

 

Fairly effective, I think. I wonder if Ventress and Durge could fake an allegiance with G0-T0...

 

Playing neutral. I don't care who wins as long as Warren and Selenial are pitted against each other next.

Something to think about for sure.

[Warren-Stride]

Fairly effective, I think. I wonder if Ventress and Durge could fake an allegiance with G0-T0...

 

I would assume that making alliances with major players that are not droids would be a no-no for the leader of the Droid Supremacy.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[Warren-Stride]

Yes, I was aware of that when I posted my thoughts. Every ship and army in SW (save for a select few) uses utility droids, those are what I propose will turn on the UB.

 

And shipyards. Don't forget that shipyards operate almost exclusively on droid labor.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[Aurbere]

Yes, I was aware of that when I posted my thoughts. Every ship and army in SW (save for a select few) uses utility droids, those are what I propose will turn on the UB.

 

Ah, I see.

[Aurbere]

I would assume that making alliances with major players that are not droids would be a no-no for the leader of the Droid Supremacy.

 

So Ventress couldn't pretend to be a bounty hunter and get hired by G0-T0? You yourself said that the Supremacy will be hiring bounty hunters. Well, Ventress has some experience in that area.

 

But if you say so.

[Aurbere]

Oh, the Brotherhood has the Commerce Guild. Guess that hacking strategy can work there, too.

[Warren-Stride]

So Ventress couldn't pretend to be a bounty hunter and get hired by G0-T0? You yourself said that the Supremacy will be hiring bounty hunters.

 

I mean, I guess. But it's not like the DS really needs them.

 

And if they did hire them, Guri would probably take care of that. Or it would be done via hologram. G0-T0's too busy fighting a Kaggath to meet with random bounty hunters that aren't a pivotal part of his powerbase personally.

[StarSquirrel]

So Ventress couldn't pretend to be a bounty hunter and get hired by G0-T0? You yourself said that the Supremacy will be hiring bounty hunters. Well, Ventress has some experience in that area.

 

But if you say so.

I wouldn't count that out completely, but seeing as how G0-T0 has the combine intelligence resources of Nar Shadda and the Bothan Spy Network, it stands to reason he'd know or soon find out about Ventress before she could do too much damage. Then he'd simply have her own droids kill her.

[Aurbere]

I wouldn't count that out completely, but seeing as how G0-T0 has the combine intelligence resources of Nar Shadda and the Bothan Spy Network, it stands to reason he'd know or soon find out about Ventress before she could do too much damage. Then he'd simply have her own droids kill her.

 

I mean, I guess. But it's not like the DS really needs them.

 

And if they did hire them, Guri would probably take care of that. Or it would be done via hologram. G0-T0's too busy fighting a Kaggath to meet with random bounty hunters that aren't a pivotal part of his powerbase personally.

 

I suppose you both make a good point. I won't say more until Marcelo makes some arguments.

[tunewalker]

I know I said I would help out Marc but from what I can tell both Navies likely have 500 or more ships from warren's description and what I can tell myself. To top it all off if we were to compare starting ground force vs starting ground force I would call them near even but Warren's production is so much better so I don't see it staying that way.

 

Now with the leaders being several highly skilled ground tactitian's Marc may be able to turn it around and take the advantage early on but this means he would need to blitz and land his troops to do this though he would have to get past the naval forces and this is where he faulters. They both are around equal strength in navy but there is a series lack of space tactitians on both sides the best space tactician I see is GO-TO which means in space the droids are going to have the advantage.

 

 

 

Assassinations is where Marc's chances really are honestly, between the near unkillable Durge the powerhouse Ventress and Greivous and even Malgus can very much take the commanders of the DS Guri lost in hand to hand to a slightly pre RotJ Luke I am certain malgus or Ventress could take her, I feel Proxy and Greivous are on the same skill level and then Durge or Ventress outdo GO-TO with this the best assassins seem to be Marc's edge but that's really it and I don't think 1 advantage is enough or that the tactical ground advantage is going to be enough to end this war swiftly especially with lacking space tacticians. (I know Greivous and Malgus have some space tactics but not many Greivous just through more numbers at it and Malgus only had the Vaguest sense of fleet tactics he spent much more time with ground tactics.) Peronsally I cant argue for a team that I feel only has 1 means of winning a fight when the other has multiple.

Edited August 31, 2013 by tunewalker

[konstadinosblue]

Eventually the Ub will be outnumbered by the droids. And since assassinating G0-T0 will be extremly hard, the UB will have to just best the DS military. Durge & Ventress are an excellent strike team and Grievous and Malgus are great leaders too. But not of them is quite the manipulator. Could G0 take advantage and start a fight within the UB leadership. Possible. It's obvious the Sith don't like Grievous, so could he make some Sith defect to his side? If that happens, Durge and Ventress will want to throw Grievous out since both don't like him, but Malgus will defend him. That could throw the Brotherhood into chaos. But, onto Battle Scenerios.

[Beniboybling]

Guri+Proxy=espionage and assassination to the max.

 

And with Geonosis under Warren's control, Proxy can likely get the schematics of Grevious and be able to recreate them. It may take time, but with the Exchange and its resources, the schematics will be found.

Queen Warren's second in command has arrived!

 

I can just imagine your avatar's marching through a battlefield:

 

= CANINO, ERADICATE ALL ORGANICS =

 

= YES, MY LADY =

 

*sound of a disruptor rifle firing coupled with the cries of innocents*

 

But back on topic, I think its about time I pitch in with for the Undying Brotherhood with a retort. Indeed Warren, don't be too proud of the technological terror you've constructed, it is insignificant next to the power of the Force!

 

Oh and Grievous has something to

 

But wait, what's that. You have something to say as well

 

But I digress.

 

I'll begin by first addressing the Undying Brotherhood's supposed weaknesses:

 

Sustainability

 

While Warren is correct to say that the Brotherhood lacks factories and shipyards in abundance, these are largely unnecessary for a mainly biological force. All the matters is recruitment. As others have pointed out Korriban, Ziost and Dromund Kaas are all hubs for the training of Sith acolytes. And while in a short space of time they are unlikely to produce any stellar warriors, an attuned Force sensitive with any kind of weapon is a deadly opponent, and worth two dozen droids or more. However I would point out that as an organisation, all Massasi warriors other than those on Yavin 4 (which is the group we are dealing with) are non-existent.

 

The Fleet

 

The Derriphan-class battleship was known to be ineffective, so its likely that the majority of their naval forces will consist of Interdictors and Centurions which were the most advanced and most deadly warships of their time. The Interdictors alone comparable, despite the timespan - with Victory class Star Destroyers of the Galactic Empire themselves. And as per the rules in Kaggath they will be even more powerful. And the Brotherhood has these in the barrelful - most likely 900 ships or more. 900 units of pure, devastating quality. Nor should we see their fighters a weak link, they may have no shields and limited firepower, but they make up for this in numbers and unprecedented speed and maneuverability thanks to its prototype twin ion drive system of Rakatan design. And Lianna can just keep pumping these out in overwhelming numbers.

 

Compatibility

 

Grievous is more known as a naval commander than a ground commander. The majority of battles he participates in are in space, and rarely does he touch down to lead a ground invasion. These are where his strengths lie and so he will likely be leading the Sith Navy operated by naval forces of Revan's Sith Empire. Who through their loyalty to Malgus will respect Grievous' command. Nor will he have to deal with potential insubordination that could occur on the ground. On the other hand Malgus will likely be leading the ground forces, of which his is primarily known for. And while his Sith Forces may possess some grudges and grievances concerning his betrayal, they will still respect his power and tactical ability, and be as dedicated to achieving victory as he. Disobedience would be a pointless gesture. And the Massassi warriors will obey any Sith Lord without question. Essentially both commanders will be in their element.

 

I'll get on to strengths soon enough.

[Beniboybling]

I'm not sure. Beni said a couple hundred?

 

But the Terror Droids can be produced on Geonosis. And the Terror Troopers could potencially be replicated through cloning.

The Empire's terror units originated on Kamio, and the droids were in fact manufactured in Timira City. Given the extensive cloning facilities on Kamino, and the nature/psyche of the Terror Soldiers, we can assume that they were clones. I'd take a look at Clone Trooper 'manufacture times' to get an idea of how quickly they could be produced and trained.

 

I also expect that given time the Geonosian droid foundries could be outfitted to produce Terror Droids.

 

You've got a neat little production line going on here Warren haven't you?

[Warren-Stride]

And while in a short space of time they are unlikely to produce any stellar warriors, an attuned Force sensitive with any kind of weapon is a deadly opponent, and worth two dozen droids or more.

 

Not sure about that. See the Battle of Geonosis, where 179 of the strongest and most well trained Jedi in galactic history died at the hands of the same droids being used here. If you take "deadly" new Sith, that come out of Korriban or Durmond Kaas in matter of months, it'll be even worse. Seriously, I can't imagine any of the acolytes we see in SWTOR on Korriban being any good at anything. The SI and SW are the exceptions, not the rule.

 

Nor should we see their fighters a weak link, they may have no shields and limited firepower, but they make up for this in numbers and unprecedented speed and maneuverability thanks to its prototype twin ion drive system of Rakatan design. And Lianna can just keep pumping these out in overwhelming numbers.

 

They're basically TIE fighters. Which kinda suck. Seriously, one shot and it's dead.

[Warren-Stride]

You've got a neat little production line going on here Warren haven't you?

 

I choose Geonosis, Kamino, and Mon Calamari for a reason. They're monsters of droid production, biological infantry production, and ship production, respectively. And then the Exchange finances it and UNLIMITED POWER.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[konstadinosblue]

They're basically TIE fighters. Which kinda suck. Seriously, one shot and it's dead.

 

Well the TIE fighters were a deadly force in large numbers, but yeah they were really weak. So unless you have a Star Forge-type factory to produce them, you have a problem.

[konstadinosblue]

Wait a minute, since the UB has the SWTOR Sith Order, do they get the Emperor's Wrath and Darth Nox? Do they even get the Emperor?! Cause that could change the tide of the war!

 

EDIT: According to this page

Edited August 31, 2013 by konstadinosblue

[Canino]

I'm assuming that the UB would use slave labor as its main workforce, yes? Because that works perfectly or Warren. And I mean perfectly...

[Warren-Stride]

Wait a minute, since the UB has the SWTOR Sith Order, do they get the Emperor's Wrath and Darth Nox? Do they even get the Emperor?! Cause that could change the tide of the war!

 

EDIT: According to this page

 

Lol no.

 

These guys. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_Warrior

 

No big baddies. Just the nameless warriors. See here: http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/3/30/SithWarriors-Deceived.png

 

EDIT: Speaking of which, how many Sith Warriors does the UB actually have? Because I count 25 in the Deceived trailer, if those are the warriors we're referring to.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[Beniboybling]

Well, I'm still wondering where the naval forces are located exactly. I believe that they are situated at the shipyards. So if the Brotherhood attacks Mon Cal, they will be outnumbered and outmatched. Provided a large number of Supremacy ships are Venators and MC80s.

I doubt this would be the case. Remember we are dealing with Revan's Sith Navy here, comprised on some of the most advanced units of its age and likely almost 1000 ships strong.

 

And if Empire at War is any indication, I doubt the Black Sun will have a great deal of MC80s or Venators, else the Empire would consider them to be much more of a threat. More likely they'll be primarily comprised of Interceptor-class frigates, patrol craft and other small capital ships. I doubt they have anymore than a handful of Venators and MC80s.

 

In terms of numbers, the Supremacy likely has almost the same amount as the Brotherhood, however in terms of firepower they are severely outmatched, even at full strength I don't think they can risk any prolonged naval battles.

 

[Aurbere]

I doubt this would be the case. Remember we are dealing with Revan's Sith Navy here, comprised on some of the most advanced units of its age and likely almost 1000 ships strong.

 

Which is why I said:

 

Provided a large number of Supremacy ships are Venators and MC80s.

 

Edit: Also, could you provide a more specific number? I'm seriously doubting that the Sith Navy is 1,000 ships strong.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Aurbere

[konstadinosblue]

Lol no.

 

These guys. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_Warrior

 

No big baddies. Just the nameless warriors. See here: http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/3/30/SithWarriors-Deceived.png

 

EDIT: Speaking of which, how many Sith Warriors does the UB actually have? Because I count 25 in the Deceived trailer, if those are the warriors we're referring to.

 

Edit: did something stupid watch next post

Edited August 31, 2013 by konstadinosblue