Kaggath Tournament - Droid Supremacy vs Undying Brotherhood

[Selenial]

So are we moving to final arguments/decision or will we give everyone the weekend to see if any more topics come up?

 

Personally I just see this playing out too much like Malugs vs Xizor. G0-T0 has top-quality assassins (three of them) and all the time in the galaxy to hit Malgus. Eventually they'll find something that works and I just don't think Malgus can thoroughly destroy G0-T0 before something tragic happens.

 

Calling it around Monday might be cool.

 

Good Luck Warren, despite what this thread shows, I've wanted you to win since the Start... Do not let me down

[Canino]

So are we moving to final arguments/decision or will we give everyone the weekend to see if any more topics come up?

 

Personally I just see this playing out too much like Malugs vs Xizor. G0-T0 has top-quality assassins (three of them) and all the time in the galaxy to hit Malgus. Eventually they'll find something that works and I just don't think Malgus can thoroughly destroy G0-T0 before something tragic happens.

 

I think the most important thing is that Malgus simply doesn't have a way to kill G0-T0. He can do as much damage to the DS as he wants, but what matters at the end of the day is a dead G0-T0. And I don't see that happening.

[Selenial]

I think the most important thing is that Malgus simply doesn't have a way to kill G0-T0. He can do as much damage to the DS as he wants, but what matters at the end of the day is a dead G0-T0. And I don't see that happening.

 

No no.

No no no no no.

 

NO.

 

I want Warren to win too, but if the UB wins the war itself G0-T0 is doomed. The Sith are excellent hunters, the UB has a decent intelligence network and someone like G0-T0 can't simply hide... He'd be found.

[Beniboybling]

Well I'd just like to point out at problem with HK-01s droid controlling abilities. While on the ground it may go off without a hitch in space it might be more difficult, spaceships are equipped with an array of sensors and I see no reason why they would not be able to detect HK-01s transmissions. They may not be able to trace them but they'll figure something is up if the enemy is transmitting something to their ships, and they'll jam it.

 

So while HK-01 may be able to make the droids go rogue, unless he can mask the communications its unlikely he'll be able to control them for long and therefore given them orders.

[Canino]

No no.

No no no no no.

 

NO.

 

I want Warren to win too, but if the UB wins the war itself G0-T0 is doomed. The Sith are excellent hunters, the UB has a decent intelligence network and someone like G0-T0 can't simply hide... He'd be found.

 

"Nar Shaddaa's a rough place and easy to get lost in.... or for someone to get lost. If we wanted to keep out of sight from the Sith for a while, you couldn't pick a better spot."

 

-Atton Rand

[Selenial]

"Nar Shaddaa's a rough place and easy to get lost in.... or for someone to get lost. If we wanted to keep out of sight from the Sith for a while, you couldn't pick a better spot."

 

-Atton Rand

 

Ahh right. Because the Crime lord in charge of the Exchange in that Quadrant wouldn't be recognisable to every Bounty Hunter on the moon?

[Canino]

Ahh right. Because the Crime lord in charge of the Exchange in that Quadrant wouldn't be recognisable to every Bounty Hunter on the moon?

 

Yeah, because everyone on the moon knows he's a droid.

 

 

You also have the fact that the Sith won't sense him, Traya couldn't center there and Visas noted it was very alive with the force. You also have the fact the Exchange will hide him with everything they have, right down to their lives. And you have people who where bribed to distract, attack, or use misdirection on the Sith. And their contacts could, in theory, be traced and "deleted".

[Selenial]

Yeah, because everyone on the moon knows he's a droid.

 

 

You also have the fact that the Sith won't sense him, Traya couldn't center there and Visas noted it was very alive with the force. You also have the fact the Exchange will hide him with everything they have, right down to their lives. And you have people who where bribed to distract, attack, or use misdirection on the Sith. And their contacts could, in theory, be traced and "deleted".

 

They'd all have taken orders through that droid.

 

Kreia said it was only difficult to centre ones-self.

 

And why would the exchange hide him so much? He's lost them the war, they're a crime syndicate, not some Loyal fanbase. Besides, others knowing of his location only serves to hamper him.

[Beniboybling]

Yeah, because everyone on the moon knows he's a droid.

 

 

You also have the fact that the Sith won't sense him, Traya couldn't center there and Visas noted it was very alive with the force. You also have the fact the Exchange will hide him with everything they have, right down to their lives. And you have people who where bribed to distract, attack, or use misdirection on the Sith. And their contacts could, in theory, be traced and "deleted".

Malgus could just bombard the planet from space, and before you point to the Battle of Nar Shaddaa the Imperials let them win and they were forewarned of the attack.

 

Anyway I think we are almost ready to wrap this up, so perhaps if people start posting 'death scenarios'.

[StarSquirrel]

Well I'd just like to point out at problem with HK-01s droid controlling abilities. While on the ground it may go off without a hitch in space it might be more difficult, spaceships are equipped with an array of sensors and I see no reason why they would not be able to detect HK-01s transmissions. They may not be able to trace them but they'll figure something is up if the enemy is transmitting something to their ships, and they'll jam it.

 

So while HK-01 may be able to make the droids go rogue, unless he can mask the communications its unlikely he'll be able to control them for long and therefore given them orders.

 

Simple, mask it with static or harmless propaganda transmissions (like a pop-up ad acting as a mask for a virus). Better yet, have PROXY or Guri sneak aboard one of the ships and plant a transmitter, then it'll merely look like it is coming from a friendly ship and they'd have more important things on their mind at that point in the battle than a friendly who left a comm line open with them.

 

My solution at least.

[Canino]

They'd all have taken orders through that droid.

 

Kreia said it was only difficult to centre ones-self.

 

And why would the exchange hide him so much? He's lost them the war, they're a crime syndicate, not some Loyal fanbase. Besides, others knowing of his location only serves to hamper him.

 

They all took orders through the crime lord "G0-T0", not the droid.

 

Kreia also says this, "Finding a Jedi or anyone else touched by the Force here will be difficult.... the mass of people, the rush of emotions.... it makes detection difficult."

 

And then this,"But this moon does not get any smaller as we wait. This sector is as good as any place to begin our search, so let us begin."

 

To which Atton responds, "Well, if we're going to search a moon of a few billion inhabitatnts for one Jedi that even our own can't sense, might as well start as soon as possible."

 

Mical then interjects later this, "Forgive me, but these bounty hunters pose a threat to her. Their persistence is unusual- and if they are not stopped, one may prove lucky."

 

And Visas then agrees with, "I agree. They are nothing more than a distraction, but even a distraction may prove fatal at a critical point. We must protect her."

 

They all knew the dangers of G0-T0 on this world, and where quite weary. Especially when G0-T0 has a bounty on Jedi and Sith alike....

 

And whose to say that the UB land at a completely different sector, and begin searching their? The Exile's party was lucky, they chose correctly. The Sith would be hard pressed (extremely) to find G0-T0 in the same manner/time the Exile did.

 

The Exchange hasn't lost the war. If anything, being a crime syndicate after a war has ravished many people will only bring profit- people get desperate, and need things. They may not fight with their lives, but they won't be deserting G0-T0.

[Canino]

Malgus could just bombard the planet from space, and before you point to the Battle of Nar Shaddaa the Imperials let them win and they were forewarned of the attack.

 

You know me so well, don't you? .

[Warren-Stride]

I would just like to extend this from earlier:

Decoys

The Sentry Droid Mark 1 is identical to G0-T0. Even if his opponents discover that G0-T0 is a droid, he will undoubtedly mass produce the sentry droids to act as decoys, potentially placing one on each ship, flooding the streets of Nar Shaddaa with them, etc. The possibilities are endless as he has these exact replica clones to count on. Finding the real G0-T0 will be almost impossible.

 

Stealth

G0-T0’s frame is equipped with a stealth generator. Even if his opponents can track down the real droid G0-T0’s location, finding and destroying him will be exceedingly difficult if he is hidden with stealth.

 

And this whole Kaggath, Nar Shaddaa and the Exchange will be unhindered from acquiring and equipping stealth tech to the Stinger, giving G0-T0 a stealthed hide out.

 

So let me break it down how hard it will be to find G0-T0.

 

First, you'll have to determine which planet he's on. Nar Shaddaa, or Bothawui. Both of which have planetary shields, I might point out. Then, you'll have to sort through and destroy hundreds if not thousands of decoys that look exactly like him. And then you'll have to discover that he has a stealthed ship in orbit. Then you'd have to find the stealthed ship, which you can't, so you'd have to infiltrate it. And then you'd have to fight through more decoys while the real one is in stealth and probably sneaking away.

 

Or he could just not be on the stealthed ship and it's also a fake and then you're back to square one of the goose chase. To make an analogy, it's like finding an invisible eye of a needle on an invisible needle inside a planet-sized haystack with thousands of other needles in it.

 

On the other hand, Malgus is charging into battle.

[Selenial]

Woop go Warren!

 

Tbh I can come back to that, But I dont wanna.... You gotta win!

[Beniboybling]

They all took orders through the crime lord "G0-T0", not the droid.

 

Kreia also says this, "Finding a Jedi or anyone else touched by the Force here will be difficult.... the mass of people, the rush of emotions.... it makes detection difficult."

 

And then this,"But this moon does not get any smaller as we wait. This sector is as good as any place to begin our search, so let us begin."

 

To which Atton responds, "Well, if we're going to search a moon of a few billion inhabitatnts for one Jedi that even our own can't sense, might as well start as soon as possible."

 

Mical then interjects later this, "Forgive me, but these bounty hunters pose a threat to her. Their persistence is unusual- and if they are not stopped, one may prove lucky."

 

And Visas then agrees with, "I agree. They are nothing more than a distraction, but even a distraction may prove fatal at a critical point. We must protect her."

 

They all knew the dangers of G0-T0 on this world, and where quite weary. Especially when G0-T0 has a bounty on Jedi and Sith alike....

 

And whose to say that the UB land at a completely different sector, and begin searching their? The Exile's party was lucky, they chose correctly. The Sith would be hard pressed (extremely) to find G0-T0 in the same manner/time the Exile did.

 

The Exchange hasn't lost the war. If anything, being a crime syndicate after a war has ravished many people will only bring profit- people get desperate, and need things. They may not fight with their lives, but they won't be deserting G0-T0.

You forget that in that instance G0-T0 wanted to be found, in this instance it will be the exact opposite.

 

But again, you can't run from an orbital bombardment. I highly doubt Malgus would waste time scouring the underworld with his army of elite Sith Warriors, I'm sure he'd be more than happy to blast them into tommorow.

[Beniboybling]

Simple, mask it with static or harmless propaganda transmissions (like a pop-up ad acting as a mask for a virus). Better yet, have PROXY or Guri sneak aboard one of the ships and plant a transmitter, then it'll merely look like it is coming from a friendly ship and they'd have more important things on their mind at that point in the battle than a friendly who left a comm line open with them.

 

My solution at least.

An excellent point, however one other thing. PROXY may be able to disguise himself as an Imperial naval official, but this disguise will only work on non-Force sensitives. Force sensitive beings will recognize PROXY as a droid because he won't produce a 'signature'. And Malgus' flagship is going to be crawling with Sith Warriors and Massassai, as well as Malgus himself and possibly even Ventress. Avoiding them all may prove difficult if not impossible.

[Beniboybling]

OK I'm planning on making a decision today, so if their are any final arguments to be made, now is the time.

[Canino]

An excellent point, however one other thing. PROXY may be able to disguise himself as an Imperial naval official, but this disguise will only work on non-Force sensitives. Force sensitive beings will recognize PROXY as a droid because he won't produce a 'signature'. And Malgus' flagship is going to be crawling with Sith Warriors and Massassai, as well as Malgus himself and possibly even Ventress. Avoiding them all may prove difficult if not impossible.

 

He could always strap a bomb or two on himself, and detonate them inside the ship. We also have to remeber that any Sith and Massassi on board will not be doing labor, ie- mechanics, communications, diagnostics, etc. He could quite easily plant bombs in the engine room, or in a reactor. No Sith would be down there, especially not the Sith from the Old Republic era. That's why you have a crew.

[Warren-Stride]

This debate is obviously quantity vs. quality.

 

The deciding factor is that the UB has three targets they need to hit: Geonosis, Kamino, and Mon Calamari. To hit one would allow the other two to create their respective units unhindered, adding to the numbers advantage. However, to hit all three would split up the UB's forces so much that they would be overrun by the DS's forces.

 

The DS is obviously playing defensively. They have the home field advantage. They don't need to worry about even entering UB space. The UB is coming to them, and bringing its leader with it. This allows the DS to hunker down and prepare for the attack.

 

I highly doubt the UB would win Geonosis. As I demonstrated earlier, their odds are 47 times worse than the odds the Clone Troopers faced on the Battle of Geonosis. Not to mention nasty party tricks like plasma weapons, bioweapons, defecting droids, etc. that the DS can pull out on the battle field.

 

I'm unsure of the Battle of Mon Calamari. It could go either way. The DS has far superior fighters, twice the number of ships, and internal sabotage from droids aboard UB ships.

 

But the most important argument of all, of course, is killing the leader. The reason G0-T0 wins is because in order to kill the leader, you have to find them first. And the UB simply won't be able to find G0-T0. Nar Shaddaa will acquire a cloaking device for the Stinger, and for all the UB knows the Stinger could be over any of the DS's planets, sitting invisible. Not to mention that several decoy ships would probably contain identical replicas of G0-T0, as will the major cities like Nar Shaddaa and Bothawui. Finding G0-T0 simply will not happen.

 

On the flip side, Malgus is very hands on. He will be leading the troops into battle, be it in space or on ground. This puts him in constant danger, not only from the battle at hand, but from the mastermind plotting of G0-T0, Guri, HK-01, and PROXY, which are pretty much the assassination dream team. Regardless of what the actual plan is (Starsquirrel and I both listed some possibilities), it's only a matter of time until the pieces fall into place and Malgus is "eliminated." Whereas the UB has to find and kill the DS leader, the DS has already found the UB's leader, putting them at a great advantage to eliminate him.

 

No matter how it's done, Malgus will be assassinated. It's only a matter of time. Unfortunately for the UB, they will not be able to find, much less kill, G0-T0 before that time is up.

[Beniboybling]

He could always strap a bomb or two on himself, and detonate them inside the ship. We also have to remeber that any Sith and Massassi on board will not be doing labor, ie- mechanics, communications, diagnostics, etc. He could quite easily plant bombs in the engine room, or in a reactor. No Sith would be down there, especially not the Sith from the Old Republic era. That's why you have a crew.

A good point, its possible he could also disguise himself as a medical droid - which would fit his form.

 

But its all a question of time, the more time PROXY has to work the greater the chances of success. Increased by things such as upgraded slicing protocols and access to spikes and cylinder codes, HK-01s signal could also come in handy for hacking the astromechs to provide extra assistance. And of course hacking the ship without detection will take time, and the more time one has the more control PROXY can can.

 

Now I say hacking because blowing the engines does not destroy the ship, as shown in the Clone Wars it only cripples the vessel and causes it to crash, allowing ample time to escape. So either Malgus' escape has to be prevented, or his vessel has surrounded while vulnerable. Hacking the ship would put PROXY in a position to at least slow his escape.

[marcelo_sdk]

Well, I see no point in debating, simply because everyone seems to agree that GO-TO can't be found. Even if UB level all the planets that argument will be brought up, so I really see no point in keep the debate, unless Beni positions himself. Personally, I think it's ridiculous to assume that GO-TO is impossible to be found, we saw far more cunning people that couldn't hide forever. And GO-TO is a droid, it's not like he totally unpredictable.

[Selenial]

Well, I see no point in debating, simply because everyone seems to agree that GO-TO can't be found. Even if UB level all the planets that argument will be brought up, so I really see no point in keep the debate, unless Beni positions himself. Personally, I think it's ridiculous to assume that GO-TO is impossible to be found, we saw far more cunning people that couldn't hide forever. And GO-TO is a droid, it's not like he totally unpredictable.

 

All ships need a way to Refuel. G0-T0 managed by refuelling from the Hutt's fuel barges, he can't do that if he stealths in the Ships they're saying he is... And having ships on alert waiting for a ship to de-cloak (as is needed to leave or refuel) he'd eventually be found.

[Beniboybling]

Well, I see no point in debating, simply because everyone seems to agree that GO-TO can't be found. Even if UB level all the planets that argument will be brought up, so I really see no point in keep the debate, unless Beni positions himself. Personally, I think it's ridiculous to assume that GO-TO is impossible to be found, we saw far more cunning people that couldn't hide forever. And GO-TO is a droid, it's not like he totally unpredictable.

I've raised the point of orbital bombardment on several occasions, but in reality its all a question of time. Who gets to who first. But if you have any counter-arguments to the attempts to kill Malgus, now is the time.

[Warren-Stride]

I've raised the point of orbital bombardment on several occasions, but in reality its all a question of time.

 

You also said that both Bothawui and Nar Shaddaa are shielded. And you can't exactly orbitally bombard a ship.

 

Besides, it's not going to come to that. G0-T0 isn't about to lose the war and just let the UB roll all over his planets.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Personally, I think it's ridiculous to assume that GO-TO is impossible to be found, we saw far more cunning people that couldn't hide forever. And GO-TO is a droid, it's not like he totally unpredictable.

 

While I can agree, who is better than GO-TO in terms of cunning? If were just including non-force users, the only person I could think of is Prince Xizor....but then again this is Xizor were speaking of.