Kaggath Tournament - Droid Supremacy vs Undying Brotherhood

[Beniboybling]

Also, how close does HK-01 have to be? On planet? Near? Because that sort of means he has to be with the fleet if he ever wants to use it...

I'd assume G0-T0 would magnify his capabilities through various means. Noting that HK-01's reach during the Great Droid Revolution was galactic.

 

Essentially set up several transceivers all linked to HK-01, making him capable of hacking enemy units here there and everywhere. I expect that before the Brotherhood gets wise they could wreak havoc with their fleets.

[marcelo_sdk]

First of all, the last pages arguments brings a situation that I don't really think it will happen. And honestly Warren, I expected more from you, your main argument until now is based on purely speculation about HK-01 hacking skills, and Beni, admit that we know nothing about it, don't try to take conclusions out of nowhere. If not even Warren can explain exactly how the hacking works, I just can't accept that I'll be unable to use my droids because of that.

 

Second, you are using two measures Beni, if Saleucami clone facilities couldn't be used, it makes no sense they can use the ones from Kamino. And if you assume that Kaminoans will cooperate with DS just beacuse they own the planet, fine, but I'll be able to use all the Sith and Massassi from my controlled planets, I would take that change at any time.

 

It's time for scenarios, until now, it was just Warren rabbling nonsense and speculations, and most people, having nothing to say, just transcribe what he wrote with different world, probably beacuse he's doing a lot more post than me, nonetheless most of them are irrelevant.

[Warren-Stride]

*snip*

 

I don't appreciate that, Marcelo. However, I hope we can all move on and that since we've all had time to vent a little the debate can be constructive from now on.

 

I just want to call something to attention here. I have put up with a lot of stuff this Kaggath. The DS has been nerfed into oblivion. Let me show you just how much.

 

 

Trade Federation Droid Army

 

Nerf #1: Only has access to B1s, B2s, and Droidekas

None of the other droids that the Trade Federation was known to have and use. Or any of the weaponry listed in the Trade Federation Army's Wookieepedia page.

 

Nerf #2: Only has 5,000 droids

Despite the fact that each C-9979 landing craft has 243 battle droids, and EACH Lucrehulk-class battleship had 50 C-9979 landing craft. Putting the number of the Trade Federation Army at over 12,000 from just ONE ship.

 

 

Terror Units

 

Nerf: Only 300

We have no evidence that there were only three hundred of these. But somehow, Sith Warriors, who also have no actual numbers, apparently are a thousand strong while a designed-to-be-deadly military force only has a couple hundred.

 

 

Black Sun Navy

 

Nerf #1: No Access to Capital Ships

The MC80 and the Venators have been taken off the table, apparently. Leaving the Black Sun navy with only fighters and frigates to destroy capital ships somehow akin to SDs.

 

 

Nerf #2: 2,000 Ships

Despite the fact that the Black Sun was present throughout the galaxy and was the richest criminal organization ever. Add to the fact that the Black Sun had 9 Vigos who had 40 planets each and plenty of credits to put 10-20 ships above each of those planets, and the correct number should be 7,600 ships.

 

 

Planets

 

Bothawui

 

Nerf: No Bothan Spy Net

Why do you think I chose this planet?

 

Kamino

 

Nerf: No Cloning Facilities

Why do you think I chose this planet?

 

 

Leaders

 

HK-01

 

Nerf: Useless

Why do you think I chose this ally?

 

 

 

So please, try to have a little empathy for the situation I am in Marcelo. Your forces have been nothing but bolstered. 1,000 SWs? 10,000 Massassi? 1,000 Interdictor-class warships? Seriously?

 

I'm not going to lie to y'all. The DS cannot win a war. Heck, 1,000 SWs alone could DEMOLISH the tiny fraction of the Trade Federation Droid Army I have. The giant ships of Revan's Navy will rip apart my tiny frigates if they don't have any support, especially considering it's only two to one.

 

However, despite all the nerfing, the DS can win the Kaggath.

 

Say the DS loses the war, because in this nerfed state, it will. Say Geonosis, Kamino, and Mon Calamari have been captured by the UB. Then what?

 

Good luck finding a droid who looks like a human. A droid who can look like anyone. A droid who can pose as a protocol droid. And a droid who can replicate himself and spread out his clones across the galaxy and then stealth while inside a stealthed ship.

 

The UB may win the war. But the DS has all the right cards. Imagine a strike team with Guri, PROXY, HK-01, and G0-T0. All of them disappearing, then resurfacing to strike directly at Malgus. Good luck, Malgus. Good luck.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[Wolfninjajedi]

Not to tread off topic, but I am still skeptical about the Interdictor being on par with a Victory-class 2 SD...the specs just don't simply add up to it...like at all. Unless when they mean by "power" they mean by something else of course. The thrusters, fine the two ships have 3...just the power is what baffles me. Edited September 2, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

Ok for ground forces I wanted to do an analysis of the attack on Geonosis. With the amount of time it would take the UB to arrive there and given the information about the rate of production I feel the force on Geonosis would be.....

 

 

 

105,000 B1 droids

1,000 B2 Droids

120 Droidaka's

120 AAT tanks

 

this is not including the terror droids but at the same time I want to keep them out of it for now any way on to the UB's forces.

 

 

1,000 Sith Warriors

10,000 Makassi Warriors

25A-DSD Dwarf spider droid

25 SD1 Dwarf spider droid

25 heavy homing spider droid

25 OG-9 homing spider droid

 

 

Now I would suspect that malgus himself would be leading the UB giving a tactical advantage but I also know that HK-01 will be able to turn the droids against the UB giving the DS a small tactical advantage for a time and some what turning the tide

 

 

With this said I am going to try and give a battle solution.

 

I am going to start with the Droidekka I believe they would kill Sith warriors at a 2:1 rate with their energy shields and high rate of fire the average Sith warrior will be hard pressed to take these guys, The massassi I also give a 2:1 rate to since they lack much defense against he droidaka's high rate of fire but can also get passed the droidaka shields with their weapon type. For this reason and for how well other droids stack up against certain opponents I believe GO-TO will have understood this and a majority of droidaka will be focused on taking out the sith. The massassi wont let this happen entirely thus I believe the ratio should be 100 droidaka for the sith and 20 for the massassi. Thus the loss of sith from droidaka ill be 200, the loss of Massassi 40.

 

800 sith, 9960 Massassi

 

AAT tanks are large and Slow but pack a lot of power and are great anti-infantry because of this I feel they will lose to the sith at a 2:1 rate but win against the Massassi at a high 10:1 rate. Again GO-TO will have calculated this and since these things are generally in the back it will likely take a strike team of sith to take them down again allowing for 100, 20 split this time with 100 being used on the massassi and 20 being used on the sith.

 

790 Sith, 8960 Massassi.

 

The B2's are much better then their counter parts higher rate of fire tougher and smarter, for this reason I believe they would lose to the sith by an only 10:1 margin and lose to the Massassi at a 3:1 margin. These guys would not be aiming towards any one in particular but since there are more massassi I believe it would be a 400:600 split.

 

750 Sith, 8760 Massassi

 

I am going to save the B1's for last so now I am going to talk about how the turned spider droids will deal.

 

The A-DSD spider droid I would normally say loses to the sith at a 2:1 rate and fights the Massassi at a 1:1 rate but with the jump they will have on them and with them putting the sith and the Massassi into a pincer with oncoming forces I feel it will be closer to 5:1 victory over the sith and a 10:1 victory over the massassi. Again this would be fairly indiscriminate and as such I feel the ration would be 10:15 Sith: massassi.

 

700 Sith, 8610 Massassi

 

The DSD1 Dwarf spider again would normally lose heavily to the sith and would deal good damage to the Massassi but getting the drop they will, will heavily turn it in the DSD's favor I suspect it would be a similar to the last one.

 

650 Sith, 8460 Massassi

 

The OG-9 homing spider droid would cause some heavy damage normally but again being a surprise I would suspect the damage to be much more severe thus a 8:1 Ratio loss for the sith and a 15:1 ratio loss for the massassi with 10 of the OG's for the sith and 15 for the Massassi

 

570 Sith, 8235 Massasi

 

The heavy homing spider was the big brother of the OG's and would cause slightly more damage thus I would say 10:1 win against sith and 18:1 win against Massassi again remember this is mostly do to the surprise this will cause as well as them being pincered between their own droids and the enemy droids making these far more effective then normal. again 10 for Sith and 15 for massassi

 

470 Sith, 7965 Massassi

 

Now we get to the B1's these are the largest number and as such I feel will likely end up being split down the middle to a degree. The Sith are skilled enough and with Malgus leading them would be deadly enough to take these at a rate of 100:1 meaning they could take 47,000 B1's while the Massassi are also highly skilled they aren't up as good as the sith but I believe they would still win against the B1's at a 10:1 ratio or take 79,650 together we can see that this is roughly 127,000 B1's with Malgus also taking out 1000 himself we are looking at a loss for the DS at geonosis but lets look at what it would cost the UB. With the Massassi being the vast majority of troops against the B1's and the B1's killing indiscriminately I believe the split will be 30,000 (droids used against) Sith 70,000 (droids used against) Massassi 5000 extra droids are not accounted for here they will be used to round out some numbers in the end and because malgus will likely kill quite a few himself not to mention if ventress is here we have to account for what she kills.

 

resulting in the left overs sith and Massassi from this assault being

 

160 Sith, 900 Massassi.

 

The question becomes can this force beat the terror droids or will the damage have been to great for them.

[Beniboybling]

Nerf #1: No Access to Capital Ships

The MC80 and the Venators have been taken off the table, apparently. Leaving the Black Sun navy with only fighters and frigates to destroy capital ships somehow akin to SDs.

Not sure what your sources are...

 

EDIT: I don't know if your making the assumption that this is 137 ABY Black Sun, its not. While it is possible that was the height of their power, we possess next to no information on their units so consider it to be the navy of Xizor's Black Sun. Which includes at least one MC80 and several Venators.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

Nerf #2: Only has 5,000 droids

Despite the fact that each C-9979 landing craft has 243 battle droids, and EACH Lucrehulk-class battleship had 50 C-9979 landing craft. Putting the number of the Trade Federation Army at over 12,000 from just ONE ship.

Please go and count the number of units present during the Battle of Naboo - you'll find I was being generous.

[StarSquirrel]

Please go and count the number of units present during the Battle of Naboo - you'll find I was being generous.

I call BS here Beni. The Trade Federation had 3,696 when they attacked Theed alone. The Vuutun Palaa carried 550 MTT's which works out to roughly over 60k droids.

The true composition of the Trade Federation Droid Army remained unknown, due to its creation and deployment under a shroud of secrecy. Droid forces were hidden within the cavernous hangar bays of Lucrehulk-class battleships and could be assembled from constituent parts that appeared innocuous enough to be overlooked by Republic customs officials.

Your merely counted the 3k or so from Theed methinks, but look closer.

 

The Vuutun Palaa's two cargo arms could carry up to 1' date='500 droid starfighters, 50 C-9979 landing craft, 550 Multi-Troop Transports, and 6,250 Armored Assault Tanks, and 1,500 battle droid carriers. [/quote']

 

On top of THAT, there was this

The Droid division settled into position, facing the massive Grand Army

and a droid division is defined as

A Division consisted of five regiments, and were carried into battle via a section of five C-9979 landing craft. As such, they possessed a total of 21,840 battle droids in addition to support droids.[1]

 

Oh and if you see the scene in Phantom Menace 7:46 you can count 5 of them (at the beginning of the movie) so it was a division at minimum.

 

Oh, and lets add this for good measure

During the Invasion of Naboo, the Trade Federation deployed large numbers of C-9979 landing craft to transport troops and equipment to the major cities of Naboo.

 

Yeah Beni take that 5k number and shove it. Warren deserves 10k easily but probably much more.

[tunewalker]

remember the max Warren can have as a minor force to start is 10k but ya 5k droids is kind of BS considering a single division was 20k and even if 5k was used against the gungans we have to remember that was not the entire army there were still a lot at the palace and most were kept busy or distracted so 10k isn't just generous but absolutely appropriate doesn't really change my scenario at all though I believe as my scenario shows waren building way more then he starts with by the time the enemy forces arrive on geonosis. Edited September 2, 2013 by tunewalker

[StarSquirrel]

remember the max Warren can have as a minor force to start is 10k but ya 5k droids is kind of BS considering a single division was 20k and even if 5k was used against the gungans we have to remember that was not the entire army there were still a lot at the palace and most were kept busy or distracted so 10k isn't just generous but absolutely appropriate doesn't really change my scenario at all though I believe as my scenario shows waren building way more then he starts with by the time the enemy forces arrive on geonosis.

 

Oh most certainly agreed, just the way Beni felt the need to justify his cutting the troop numbers by using Naboo as an example rubbed me the wrong way. Then he said go read up on it so I did...

[tunewalker]

Oh most certainly agreed, just the way Beni felt the need to justify his cutting the troop numbers by using Naboo as an example rubbed me the wrong way. Then he said go read up on it so I did...

 

So what do you think about the numbers of terror units are there I am not sure about them and if they will be able to stop the 160 sith and 900 Massassi that my scenario was saying would likely survive Geonosis. Also if any one can give feedbac on my analysis of capabilities and match up please do.

Edited September 2, 2013 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

First of all, the last pages arguments brings a situation that I don't really think it will happen. And honestly Warren, I expected more from you, your main argument until now is based on purely speculation about HK-01 hacking skills, and Beni, admit that we know nothing about it, don't try to take conclusions out of nowhere. If not even Warren can explain exactly how the hacking works, I just can't accept that I'll be unable to use my droids because of that.

 

Second, you are using two measures Beni, if Saleucami clone facilities couldn't be used, it makes no sense they can use the ones from Kamino. And if you assume that Kaminoans will cooperate with DS just beacuse they own the planet, fine, but I'll be able to use all the Sith and Massassi from my controlled planets, I would take that change at any time.

 

It's time for scenarios, until now, it was just Warren rabbling nonsense and speculations, and most people, having nothing to say, just transcribe what he wrote with different world, probably beacuse he's doing a lot more post than me, nonetheless most of them are irrelevant.

Firstly, I would advise against dictating to me. It will get you nowhere. As Arbiter I decide what's 'nonsense and speculations' and what is valid and researched argument. This in particular, is complete conjecture.

 

In so far everyone has made excellent contributions to the debate, especially Warren whom I'm sure has put much effort into her analyses and arguments, and for that I commend her. Now is not the time for scenarios, now is the time to continue the constructive debate that we have been having, don't ruin that.

 

Anyway, concerning HK-01, I disagree. We may not possess extensive information on his abilities, but we are just going to have to work with that, you may not be aware but in the Kaggath we don't take the position of excluding abilities simply due to lack of information, regardless Warren has made a good effort at formulating plausible theories.

 

First, lets look at the information at hand:

 

Taken from HK-01's Wookieepedia page:

 

HK-01 began secretly reprogramming his fellow droids, aiming to liberate his automaton brethren from their sentient masters. HK-01 set the droids to rise up in revolution at his command, and across the galaxy, droids suddenly became violent and aggressive towards their owners. Once-loyal battle droids turned against their masters, and subjugated entire planets in the name of the Droid Revolution.

 

Despite his impressive command of his new army, HK-01 was unable to remain in control of the droids, and his orders were soon deciphered and traced by agents of the Galactic Republic. The Jedi Knights were able to locate the source of these dangerous communications, and shut HK-01 down.

Taken from the Wookieepedia page on Droid Supremacy:

 

Droid supremacy was the ideal held by droids with high enough sentience programming to override their life preservation programming and revolt against their organic owners. This only instigated Anti-Droid sentiment in the organic populace, fanning the flames of hate and causing problems for the droid rights movement. It's unconfirmed as to whether they maintained separate personality matrices among individual robots...

 

...HK-01 and his droid army promoted this as his reason for starting the Great Droid Revolution.

 

From this we can gather that:

 

1. HK-01 reprogrammed droids wirelessly, it would be impossible for him to take over entire planets my manually 'liberating' each and every droid . Reference to 'dangerous communications' is also made.

 

2. There are limits to the duration and extent of his control, however his 'peak' likely numbers in the millions. His communications can also be deciphered and traced to discover the source of the transmissions.

 

3. HK-01 instigated rebellion by subverting the life preservation programming of the droids he hacked, as this would cause them to rebel in the manner that they did, and HK-01 supported Droid Supremacy.

 

4. HK-01 is capable of commanding the droids under his control, evident from the use of the word 'orders' and the fact that his droid 'army' was able to organize and take over entire planets.

 

The evidence is clear, HK-01 is capable of transmitting dangerous communications to fellow droids causing their life preservation programming to be overridden leading them to rebel against their masters. Once this is done, he is capable of commanding these droids to exact his commands. Given that G0-T0 was familiar with this same technology, which he used to create a Droid Army of his own, its more than plausible to assume that G0-T0 would be capable of transmitting HK-01's signal across the Brotherhood's worlds and across battlefields.

 

If you actual have a solid reason for why this is not possible, please say, because 'its speculative!' doesn't cut it I'm afraid. And as a general point, everyone needs to remember its OK to concede argument. If I regard an argument as simply incorrect, I will flag it as such, if I don't do this, it has a level of validity. So you can rail against is all you want but in reality its in your best interests to come up with a counter-argument rather than try and refute it entirely.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

Nerf: Only 300

We have no evidence that there were only three hundred of these. But somehow, Sith Warriors, who also have no actual numbers, apparently are a thousand strong while a designed-to-be-deadly military force only has a couple hundred.

Nerf time! Actually I've decided on 100. They were a very specialized elite force, and if one were to go through TFUII I doubt you'd count any more than a couple of dozen. The rarely ever appear it groups and when they do we are talking twos and threes. Despite this they are very powerful and a Terror droid is probably worth 3 or 4 Sith Warriors, with a Terror Walker 6 or more. Though of course, you can build/clone more.

 

And concerning Sith Warriors, this is actually the biggest nerf of them all. In all seriousness the number of Sith Warriors in the Sith Empire is likely close to 10,000 if not 20,000. There are 10,000 Jedi in the Jedi Order during the Clone Wars and yet you'd be lucky to see 1 or 2 leading an army. During the Great Galactic War you've got Sith and Jedi crawling out of your ears. And much like the Brotherhood (who's numbers were 20,000 strong) they are training everything they can get their hands on. But of course 10,000 Sith Warriors is just too much, so I 'nerfed' it down to a more respectable 1,000. So yeah, you got lucky on that on pal.

[Beniboybling]

*snip*

OK, OK you got me. But Tunewalker is right, given that the Trade Fed are recorded as a minor ground force (though in hindsight they should have been major) they can be no larger than 10,000.

 

EDIT: However given that the droid foundries on Geonosis can likely produce 50,000 Battle Droids per day. And as Baktoid had a presence on Geonosis are also capable of producing tanks etc. They would likely have a complete Trade Federation Army with all the trimmings manufactured within 5 days.

 

Also, the Droid Supremacy does have access the the schematics of the starfighters that partly comprised the Trade Federation Army, and as all ground units are allowed their personal aerial vessels the Supremacy would have 1,500 Droid Starfightes prepped and ready to go. (The Brotherhood also has access to several Fury-class Imperial Interceptors.)

Edited September 2, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Warren-Stride]

Beni, the nerfing post wasn't directed at you. I wasn't trying to question your judgment, I was simply putting it in perspective what the DS has to work with.

 

I will say that with 1,000 SWs, that seems a bit unfair. 1,000 SWs would decimate pretty much any ground force. The only other Force-sensitive ground force we have is the Imperial Knights. And there were 25 of them. There were also 25 SWs who carried out to Sacking of Coruscant, who would be a much better measuring stick for that force. Because as it stands, there is 1 SW for every 10 Maassassi. When it would stand to reason that SWs aren't footsoldiers, but commanders leading hundreds of Massassi. There were 200 Jedi at the Battle of Geonosis. If there had been 1,000, the droids would have gotten creamed. It simply seems a little unfair that the UB has Malgus x1,000.

 

However, I don't expect it to be changed. Just like with the nerfs, I honestly don't really mind. Because the DS can still win regardless.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[Selenial]

Not to tread off topic, but I am still skeptical about the Interdictor being on par with a Victory-class 2 SD...the specs just don't simply add up to it...like at all. Unless when they mean by "power" they mean by something else of course. The thrusters, fine the two ships have 3...just the power is what baffles me.

 

Dat Smexeh Rakata Technology is pretty advanced you know...

[Canino]

I'm starting to think that Geonosis will be the one and only battle. If Malgus is leading, it may become very similar to Hope, except he won't walk away

[Selenial]

The evidence is clear, HK-01 is capable of transmitting dangerous communications to fellow droids causing their life preservation programming to be overridden leading them to rebel against their masters. Once this is done, he is capable of commanding these droids to exact his commands. Given that G0-T0 was familiar with this same technology, which he used to create a Droid Army of his own, its more than plausible to assume that G0-T0 would be capable of transmigrating HK-01's signal across the Brotherhood's worlds and across battlefields.

 

If you actual have a solid reason for why this is not possible, please say, because 'its speculative!' doesn't cut it I'm afraid. And as a general point, everyone needs to remember its OK to concede argument. If I regard an argument as simply incorrect, I will flag it as such, if I don't do this, it has a level of validity. So you can rail against is all you want but in reality its in your best interests to come up with a counter-argument rather than try and refute it entirely.

 

I'll help Marcelo here, and Say that's already been done....

 

G0-T0 won't attack Factory worlds, Ship yards or the Sith Temples. He considered Sith and Jedi to be incredibly effective when he can control them, he considered Factories and the like important to the Galaxy as a means to defend themselves. He'd strike at Military ships, yes. But I don't think he'd let HK-01 strike at any planets...

 

This also allows him to make sure HK-01 doesn't get his hands on an army he could use to subvert G0-T0 after the Kaggath (and while after doesn't matter in the debate, G0-T0 would have to take the precaution during it)

[Selenial]

I'm starting to think that Geonosis will be the one and only battle. If Malgus is leading, it may become very similar to Hope, except he won't walk away

 

Heh, more like Similar to the Republic assault on Poggul the Lesser's Prime droid Foundry... You know, the one that went Kaboom...

 

Think of it as a present, from Lord Vindicaa.

 

Edit: Haha, I just realised Malgus' Master was called Vindican, and his make shift apprentice is Vindicaa.....

Edited September 2, 2013 by Selenial

[Beniboybling]

Beni, the nerfing post wasn't directed at you. I wasn't trying to question your judgment, I was simply putting it in perspective what the DS has to work with.

 

I will say that with 1,000 SWs, that seems a bit unfair. 1,000 SWs would decimate pretty much any ground force. The only other Force-sensitive ground force we have is the Imperial Knights. And there were 25 of them. There were also 25 SWs who carried out to Sacking of Coruscant, who would be a much better measuring stick for that force. Because as it stands, there is 1 SW for every 10 Maassassi. When it would stand to reason that SWs aren't footsoldiers, but commanders leading hundreds of Massassi. There were 200 Jedi at the Battle of Geonosis. If there had been 1,000, the droids would have gotten creamed. It simply seems a little unfair that the UB has Malgus x1,000.

 

However, I don't expect it to be changed. Just like with the nerfs, I honestly don't really mind. Because the DS can still win regardless.

I know, but I just replied to a few with clarification purposes.

 

And really, I don't think I can 'nerf' the Sith Warriors anymore. They are a tenth, perhaps even a twentieth of their original strength. And in the Sith Empire, the Sith Warriors often served as a 'foot solider' class under the command of a Darth. Darth Malgus for example in numerous battles commanded several Sith Warriors who simply went around destroying stuff, most Sith Warriors likely lack the tactical ability to be commanders.

 

Its important therefore that I reflect this in the Kaggath, they were many.

 

EDIT: And lets not turn around the old Geonosis argument, a moment ago you were using it for the exact opposite point. 200 Jedi, despite having the support of almost 200,000 clones, tank support etc. and despite the droid armies being in full retreat, still managed to get themselves killed. Indeed in the Geonosian Arena when outnumbered 50 to 1 all but 20 of the 200 Jedi sent in to rescue survive. It was a massacre. Now of course we have to take into account that the Sith Warriors will likely perform much better in a combat situation for various reasons. But guess what? In 5 days the Supremacy's armies will outnumber the Sith 200 to 1.

 

Again, I appreciate that some people just don't want to accept that, and will rail against that to the end and back. But rather than complaining, try cooking up a counter argument. It works out better for everyone. /lecture

Edited September 2, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

I'm starting to think that Geonosis will be the one and only battle. If Malgus is leading, it may become very similar to Hope, except he won't walk away

*Looks around for a highly powerful Grand Master to be*

 

Nope, can't find one.

[Canino]

Heh, more like Similar to the Republic assault on Poggul the Lesser's Prime droid Foundry... You know, the one that went Kaboom...

 

Think of it as a present, from Lord Vindicaa.

 

Edit: Haha, I just realised Malgus' Master was called Vindican, and his make shift apprentice is Vindicaa.....

 

But here's the thing- Malgus, Ventress, and Grevious will not be next to each other in an attack. Not when they have to find the factories (they are extremely well hidden) fight through Geonosians, lead Sith/Massassi, and destroy the factory- all while being attacked by a huge army.

 

They may win the battle, but that doesn't mean that Malgus won't die. All it takes is PROXY, Guri, and some Droidekas to kill him.

[Selenial]

*Looks around for a highly powerful Grand Master to be*

 

Nope, can't find one.

 

*Pokes head around the corner*

 

Wait a minute... Malgus' force are the Smaller force, and the droids the overwhelming ones... Wouldn't malgus be the Republic Troops from hope?

[Selenial]

They may win the battle, but that doesn't mean that Malgus won't die. All it takes is PROXY, Guri, and some Droidekas to kill him.

 

Oh Canino, how you amuse me

 

Proxy is a joke. I'm sorry, but I have to debunk this Idea he's as strong as the Jedi he mimicked.

 

He became Obi-Wan Kenobi and was taken out by Vader in 3 seconds. The Soresu master.... Lawlz.

 

However, Malgus is a tank, he'd demolish them all 'wit dem RAGE'.... No but seriously, it needs more than that to take him out.

[Warren-Stride]

*Looks around for a highly powerful Grand Master to be*

 

Nope, can't find one.

 

I think the larger issue here is probability.

 

What is the probability that Malgus will die while leading his army on the front lines? What is the probability that G0-T0 will die safely away from the action hiding? In this Kaggath, it's simply more probable that Malgus will die than G0-T0.