Kaggath Tournament - Droid Supremacy vs Undying Brotherhood

[Warren-Stride]

GO-TO wanted the Republic to strive, droids dominating organics are hardly the wa he would choose. And about HK, he's doing the same thing Mentor did, subverting the droids personalities to what he thinks is right. He'll do the same to GO-TO, no matter what you think.

 

...

 

Lol. So what's he going to do to G0-T0, make him want to rule over biological beings? Which then cancels out your entire argument?

[Selenial]

Which is why Beni has been saying that I can use them this whole Kaggath.

 

By that logic, Lianna shipyards aren't controlled by the Commerce Guild so the UB can't use that. The Sith Academy isn't controlled by the Commerce Guild, so the UB can't use that. The Dark Temple isn't controlled by the Commerce Guild so the UB can't use that. So on and so forth.

 

Then the poor kiddo should make his mind up.

 

Unless you have a supplier that owns said cloning facilities then I'm afraid not.

[Selenial]

...

 

Lol. So what's he going to do to G0-T0, make him want to rule over biological beings? Which then cancels out your entire argument?

 

And loses the Kaggath.

[Warren-Stride]

And loses the Kaggath.

 

Because...?

[Selenial]

GO-TO wanted the Republic to strive, droids dominating organics are hardly the wa he would choose. And about HK, he's doing the same thing Mentor did, subverting the droids personalities to what he thinks is right. He'll do the same to GO-TO, no matter what you think.

 

Just thought I'd throw in here, he wanted the Galaxy to survive after his programming conflicted and he became free, Sith or Republic.

[Selenial]

Because...?

 

Because G0-T0 would cease to exist, his programming subroutines and his being would be absorbed into HK-01, becoming a figment of his will.

[Warren-Stride]

Because G0-T0 would cease to exist, his programming subroutines and his being would be absorbed into HK-01, becoming a figment of his will.

 

XD What?

 

No. HK-01 doesn't control the droids. In fact, if you read the HK-01 bio, he wasn't able to control them. It's not a hive mind. He simply motivates them to kill biologicals. Their individuality remains. Talk about making assumptions.

 

Also:

Regardless of personality, all combatants are dedicated to achieving victory. Surrender is not an option.

[Selenial]

XD What?

 

No. HK-01 doesn't control the droids. In fact, if you read the HK-01 bio, he wasn't able to control them. It's not a hive mind. He simply motivates them to kill biologicals. Their individuality remains. Talk about making assumptions.

 

Also:

 

He completely changes their Personality. He turns them into different droids. He has direct control over them, after rewiring their brains he can transmit any signal he wants.

 

You cannot motivate droids, only rewire them.

[Warren-Stride]

He completely changes their Personality. He turns them into different droids. He has direct control over them, after rewiring their brains he can transmit any signal he wants.

 

You cannot motivate droids, only rewire them.

 

Where is your evidence for this?

 

I think I should change my name to "Warrant-Stride". Come on people, there's gotta be a reason for what you're saying. He doesn't rewire any droid brains.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[marcelo_sdk]

Where is your evidence for this?

 

I think I should change my name to "Warrant-Stride". Come on people, there's gotta be a reason for what you're saying. He doesn't rewire any droid brains.

 

Now he doesn't cause that would be your downfall, but before Selenial bought that point up, you said he would the exact same thing with my forces.

[Warren-Stride]

Now he doesn't cause that would be your downfall, but before Selenial bought that point up, you said he would the exact same thing with my forces.

 

Nooo... I said he would motivate them to kill biologicals. G0-T0 is already motivated to kill biologicals.

[Beniboybling]

Who says IG-88 could only control droids that he put his sentience into? Maybe he only did this, to ensure that none of the droids failed on him or w/e...if earlier models can just control other droids without such then IG-88 would more than likely be able to do the same, he just preferred his sentience. Though that quote doesn't really say anything new for HK, on his profile it says pretty much the same thing, a bit different but still, HK still needed to reprogram the droids he sent out too. XD

Did IG-88 hack into the droid facility on Mechis are take over all of them, even the one's already built? I'd assume HK-01 operates in a similar if not identical manner. IG-88 is certainly one of a kind however he is comprised of tech already out there. And I don't recall Holowan Mechanical making any particular breakthroughs in this area.

[marcelo_sdk]

Nooo... I said he would motivate them to kill biologicals. G0-T0 is already motivated to kill biologicals.

 

He isn't motivated to kill biologicals, he is motivated in making the Galaxy thrive, wether or not with biologicals commanding it.

[Selenial]

Nooo... I said he would motivate them to kill biologicals. G0-T0 is already motivated to kill biologicals.

 

You cannot motivate a droid. It's simple fact.

 

Their purpose is hardwired into their brain, you cannot stray them from that path by words, only by 2 things.

 

1) Conflict their programming, make them believe they're not doing their programming doing what they're doing,

 

2) Reprogram them.

[Canino]

He isn't motivated to kill biologicals, he is motivated in making the Galaxy thrive, wether or not with biologicals commanding it.

 

But in the Kaggath, he is the only droid leader, and is told he must kill his enemies-which are biologicals. Hence his all droids army and vows for victory against all that stand in his way of making the galaxy safe- for droids

[Beniboybling]

I'd like to see the UB army take on the guys shown here at 39:00:

 

And the PROXY droids that look exactly like them who will make it Sith vs. Sith and then who knows who's on your side? Could end up fighting a real Sith. Oops.

The Supremacy's terror units are certainly deadly, but I'm not sure how effective they would be in an open battlefield for reasons I have already explained. Though on a more enclosed battlefield such as Kamino they will come into play.

 

However we have to remember that the in the initial stages all the Terror Units will be stationed on Kamino, and all of the Trade Federation Army on Geonosis. So its more a case of one or the other rather than both simultaneously. But again the Trade Federation Army is more suited to open warfare, and the Terror Units to the opposite either way.

 

And finally the Supremacy only has one PROXY droid, or rather the PROXY droid.

[Warren-Stride]

You cannot motivate a droid. It's simple fact.

 

Their purpose is hardwired into their brain, you cannot stray them from that path by words, only by 2 things.

 

1) Conflict their programming, make them believe they're not doing their programming doing what they're doing,

 

2) Reprogram them.

 

You also can't wave your had and magically motivate people either. It's simple fact.

 

This is Star Wars, guys. Star Wars.

 

You want to know what HK-01 is doing? Plot twist, he's expanding the idea of Droid Supremacy. (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Droid_supremacy) Yep, it's a real thing. And it's been used by more than just HK-01. In fact, Droid Zero (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Droid_Zero) did something extremely similar. They implant the idea that droids should not serve humanoids into their programming. In HK-01's case, through encrypted messages. Does that make him control them? No. Does that make them mindless? No. Think of it as one giant droid mind trick.

[Warren-Stride]

And finally the Supremacy only has one PROXY droid, or rather the PROXY droid.

 

While that's true, they can easily make more PROXY droids. They have the schematics sitting right in front of them.

[Beniboybling]

Just read that, and dont' know it was thrown away. Hk-01 wanted to dominate every droid to do his bidding, why GO-TO would be any different?

I don't know much about HK-01 - but I'd assume that G0-T0 would install some kind of obedience programming in all his troops. Like he did (in certain endings) with HK-47 and the other HK units on Malachor V. This is a big advantage for G0-T0 as it makes his forces completely loyal.

 

Its also possible that G0-T0 could set up some kind of transmitters to 'amplify' if you will HK-01's signal. Remember G0-T0 is more than well versed in droid control and that kind of networking, see G0-T0's Droid Army. In fact, if I recall correctly, G0-T0 was actually transmitting a signal that allowed him to control the droids. A signal picked up by that Bith dude who was promptly discovered and killed. Essentially he has the means to maximize HK-01s effectiveness.

[Canino]

While that's true, they can easily make more PROXY droids. They have the schematics sitting right in front of them.

 

And, as Grievous's cybernetics where created there, they would also have his. Now we have an army of PROXY Grevious'. Have fun with that.....

[Beniboybling]

Just thought I'd point out.... As the Geonosian Droid Foundries and the Kaminoan clone Factories were not controlled by Warren's supplier or allies, she cannot use them.

 

According to Beni anyway.

Nein. Foundries, factories, shipyards and all that jazz still exist. One simply has to start them up. They do not however come with schematics and the like.

 

Concerning Kaminoans, they don't appear to be an organisation, just a species with a skill for cloning. So it is possible that G0-T0 could enlist their aid. However with the cloning facilities already accessible, and the 'blueprints' for the terror soldiers in hand, I'm not sure if they would be needed. I can't recall seeing any Kaminoans in TFU II.

[Warren-Stride]

Its also possible that G0-T0 could set up some kind of transmitters to 'amplify' if you will HK-01's signal. Remember G0-T0 is more than well versed in droid control and that kind of networking, see G0-T0's Droid Army. In fact, if I recall correctly, G0-T0 was actually transmitting a signal that allowed him to control the droids. A signal picked up by that Bith dude who was promptly discovered and killed. Essentially he has the means to maximize HK-01s effectiveness.

 

This is exactly what I had in mind when I picked those two.

 

Okay, long story short, HK-01 can transmit encrypted messages that override a droid's Life Preservation Programming (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Life_preservation_programming) and then continues to communicate with them to implant ideals of Droid Supremacy (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Droid_supremacy) into their programming, which then makes them lash out against organics.

 

Does that sound right, Beni?

[Canino]

We should however always consider how much damage can actually be done.

 

The Brotherhood's droids are soon going to prove ineffective on several fronts, so production will be limited, and even then they are merely secondary support to the organic warriors, and not really necessary. The Massassai warriors are a nomadic people and have a variety of prey to hunt and kill to provide them with food. Which will limit the need for food supplies down to 1,000 Sith Warriors. And I'm sure what they already have stocked up will suffice.

 

In addition they have no need for weapon resupply, only fuel.

 

Do you really want soldiers who should be standing guard hunting, gathering and cooking? And would eating animals twisted by nexus's be healthy for the body ?

 

You also are believing that the UB will not use their droids- which is wrong. Probes, sabotage, invasion, etc. They aren't going to risk any of those for troops untrained to do the job. They need droids. They also will need ammunition, arms, modifications, food, fuel.... the list goes on.

 

Using the Exchange, the DS can also blockade planets, starving the inhabitants and stealing cargo. Pirating will be very effective. And it will be easy for G0-T0 to do. He has Geonosis, where many of the droids the Commerce Guild created would have been produced. He knows what metals they need, and from there he can get into a network, scan for said metals, discover planets near the UB that have them (cheaper), and use calculations to learn where the shipments will come from.

 

All very easy for droid to do .

[Warren-Stride]

You also are believing that the UB will not use their droids- which is wrong.

 

Does the UB even have any droid factories to MAKE the droids?

[Beniboybling]

No offense guys, but these assumptions about HK are kinda, well, baseless:

 

HK-01 began secretly reprogramming his fellow droids, aiming to liberate his automaton brethren from their sentient masters. HK-01 set the droids to rise up in revolution at his command, and across the galaxy, droids suddenly became violent and aggressive towards their owners. Once-loyal battle droids turned against their masters, and subjugated entire planets in the name of the Droid Revolution.

 

Nowhere does it say here that HK-01 was hell bent on dominance and controlling all droids in the galaxy. He didn't want control, he wanted rebellion. Droids were already programmed to serve humanity and HK attempt to change that. G0-T0 has already broken free from his programming, and heck he'd probably rather the galaxy be run by droids than humans, so HK-01 has no reason to attempt to control him. In fact, there isn't much he can do. G0-T0 is already effectively rebelling against humans, so rewriting his programming would only put HK-01 in charge, and he has no reason to do that. He programming will tell him G0-T0 being in charge will be better for droid kind.