The behaviour of some players in swtor and mmos in general.

[Styxx]

I don't expect players in random groups to have completed the content dozens of times and have perfect gear and be top notch players.

 

I do expect players to have a basic understanding of their class, how to perform their role in group content, and to be reasonably geared for the content (very basic in all of these at early levels compared to end-game).

 

As I have lots of experience in SWTOR and other games like this and I enjoy and play the meta min / max game with my gear, I know at times I can come across as elitist when I get frustrated with players in group content.

 

However, I don't resort to name calling or personal attacks, and to me, it goes back to mutual respect.

 

I'll give you all the respect you give me.

 

If you have done basic things like learn your class and keep your gear semi-updated and come to a group prepared willing to listen and follow instructions, I'll stay patient and try to help.

 

If you however show up woefully under-geared with no idea how to perform your role and are unwilling to take advice and follow instructions and are causing issues for the group, them I'll initiate a vote to kick.

 

And of course this all depends on the content.

 

The first couple of FPs are pretty much show up, follow group, kill stuff, collect loot.

 

As long as you are trying and working with the group as a team (e.g. not running off on your own causing problems) and not acting like a jerk, I won't expect much.

 

At higher levels I'll expect simple things like being in tank stance with a shield if you queued tank or having a healing spec if queued as healer, as well as expecting you to work with the group as a team and again, not acting like a jerk.

 

By the time you hit 55 and start queuing for HM FPs and SM Operations, I'll expect you to know the basics of your class and how to work together in a group (things like following the group, managing agro, kill orders, CC, using interrupts and stuns) and to have a basic set of class / role appropriate gear.

 

If you show up at 55 for HM FPs or Operations wearing gear from Hoth that isn't for your class while not following the group or basic instructions or mouthing off at the group or demonstrating a clear lack of understanding in basic game play, then I'll call you on it (not a personal attack, mind you, just pointing out what you need to change) and most likely have you removed from the group.

 

QFT.

 

One more thing:

 

People in real life have to deal with the consequences of their actions. Not so here. It turns nice, even quiet people into internet $%#holes.

I always employ real life politeness in any game, with this being no exception. I was a new tank and healer at one point - I ALWAYS stated it at the start of the instance, with a rough guideline for everyone else; as a tank, I asked medium openings, so I can start my threat without having to burn all my taunts, while as a healer I asked for only one tank and as little stress from the DPS`s.

 

NOBODY talked at me and I literally mean NOBODY. Sure, it would have been different if I would have been a big mouthed nobody blaming my own mistakes on someone else because they expect a minimum of "skill" from the other guy.

 

In conclusion, politeness goes only that far.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Styxx

[ikinai]

I behave in game and in the forums pretty much like I do in real life. I generally just sit back and do my thing, make sure I get what needs to be done, done. I get advice when I feel it's needed, give advice whether it's needed or not and am a general goof off wise cracking know it all. i just do it with style, perhaps not your style, but my style. If it makes someone laugh and enjoy their time just a little bit more, then I've done what I've set out to do, make it just a little bit more fun, and hopefully make learning a little bit more palatable.

 

Although sometimes my way of teaching could get you and perhaps myself in a bit of trouble, but where's the fun in playing it safe?

[The_Grand_Nagus]

If asking people to behave themselves actually worked, we wouldnt be having this conversation in the first place.

[reclipsed]

The only drawback to this is that you were not ignored by them many levels sooner. Being put on ignore by those individuals is more a blessing then a punishment. They may have not even understood the function of such but, as many of that type do, made a faulty judgement based upon a healthy does of "the internet makes me smarter then I am" Insure that they are also on ignore....just to be safe. LOL

 

 

Or maybe they find those people that use specific items annoying. I'm not agreeing with those people, just playing devil's advocate. I find people that spam certain things constantly very annoying, but I'm pretty easy going so I ignore with my brain not my fingers. My judgements are my own not everyones.

[MWidowmaker]

I pay money to play this game.

 

Stop trying to dictate my actions.

 

If I'm not violating the TOS, I should be able to be as rude/vile as I imagine my character would be.

 

I get it. You guys wanna make this a fun and safe place for everyone....but it will never be so.

 

Do the best you can and restrict who you play with by modifying your ignore list.

 

and another sociopath to steer clear of

[Drockter]

Wrong stance? So he wasn't really a tank, and just wanted to get an instant pop into the flashpoint. Of course he couldn't hold aggro if he wasn't in a tank stance. Yeah mention something, say maybe you should try to be a tank if you join as one. All of that is possible, but for the most part we are tired of seeing it.

 

People who are not tanks joining as such for the quick pop are just as bad as fake healers who do so. Even worse you say he wasn't over geared, so he couldn't just fake the funk.

 

haven't read the thread all the way through yet... so I apologize if this has already been said.

 

There are effective ways to handle people in this situation. We were all new at one time as well, I find that I am still learning at times, if not... whats the point of the game.

 

Lets take the comment above "maybe you should try to be a tank if you join as one". Might be better phrased as "If you try the <stance name>, it might help you hold agro longer", or "your survivability would be greatly improved if you got some augments, start with what you can afford, but ultimately you want to work your way up to Advanced 28's".

 

Some of my fondest memories of this game, is where someone took the time to help me understand a certain mechanic, or why a I should do x instead of y.

 

It surprises me that some people expect everyone to be an expert... then somehow get ticked off and offended if there is a inexperienced, or undergeared player.

 

Couple examples from yesterday. Was running a PUG 8M HM KP (not the hardest mission out there), had a player rage quit because there weren't two people who knew the puzzle. It took less than 5 minutes to explain to another player (me by the way) (including running the puzzle twice), and we completed the mission with 7 players shortly thereafter with 0 deaths.

 

Take a moment to assist, offer pointers... its not really that hard. Most people return that generosity with thanks, and pass it on... rather than walking away with a foul taste in their mouth.

[jstankaroslo]

you're being myopic; from his point of view, you're wasting his time.

 

i'm not sure why he automatically is in the wrong; you're both being selfish and that's fine. your priorities are your and his are his. but try to take a step back

 

He was not in the wrong. Or right. Neither did I. It was a matter of not fitting play styles, thats all. If I meet a player with different playstyle I have to cope with it, leave the group, or be an *** and call a vote kick. But under no circumstances will I be abusive or simply rude to said player.

 

There is other thing in this. Sometimes not the clumsy tank, nor incopetent healer, but mr "make no mistakes" is the problem. I don't understand why there always have to be the weakest one to be kicked out. Do super efficient players feel some kind of hosts of these flashpoints, that get to decide who stays and who goes?

It goes against everything I know is important in groups IRL. When you're on a hike the strongest have to support the weakest, wait for them etc, not throw them off a cliff.

 

just my two cents on the topic

[Drockter]

He was not in the wrong. Or right. Neither did I. It was a matter of not fitting play styles, thats all. If I meet a player with different playstyle I have to cope with it, leave the group, or be an *** and call a vote kick. But under no circumstances will I be abusive or simply rude to said player.

 

There is other thing in this. Sometimes not the clumsy tank, nor incopetent healer, but mr "make no mistakes" is the problem. I don't understand why there always have to be the weakest one to be kicked out. Do super efficient players feel some kind of hosts of these flashpoints, that get to decide who stays and who goes?

It goes against everything I know is important in groups IRL. When you're on a hike the strongest have to support the weakest, wait for them etc, not throw them off a cliff.

 

just my two cents on the topic

 

QFT. Personally, i have never initiated a vote kick, nor been vote kicked... but perhaps it might be a bit of a wake up to the Elitist. As others have stated, I'm perfectly fine working with an inexperienced player, helping the undergeared stay alive (i'm a healer). Teaching, offering tips, going over boss strats... it gets drowned out sometimes by the Elitest screaming and pounding their fist that we might not make the world record speed time for the mission (blatant exaggeration).

[Garster]

In my experience, rude players are the exception and not the majority. Out of the 16 people in your Ops who are trying very hard to kill the boss despite your really really bad play, there might be 1 or 2 who'll call you out on your wearing alacrity as a tank or how you don't realize that you're standing in purple for several seconds, causing healers to use all of their resources to save your oblivious non-contributions. The vocal few tend to stick out in your memory more because they probably say something that hurts your feelies, bursts your little bubble and is....is true OMG.

 

What I'm noticing more and more though are players who insist that "playing your own way" is the most important thing ever. This is just an excuse to not put any effort into learning their class and to do whatever they want no matter how it affects others that they group with. Someone in this thread even mentioned that looking up youtubes of fights (doing the bare minimum of research) is beneath them and that they don't have time (like 2 minutes) to view a fight before grouping up. I consider this just as rude.

[jstankaroslo]

Someone in this thread even mentioned that looking up youtubes of fights (doing the bare minimum of research) is beneath them and that they don't have time (like 2 minutes) to view a fight before grouping up. I consider this just as rude.

 

While I tend to agree with majority of your post, I don't understand your last statement. You mean in order to do SM Flashpoints or Operations you need to watch them on youtube first?

Well, I do Flashpoints for the story. If I ever try an operation, I'd like to be awed by some huge monster first time I see it

 

I don't have anything against really quick, efficient and professional people in this game, but shouldn't they play HMs or in their own (efficient and professional) guilds? Of course only the ones that find playing with casual players so disgusting.

[LegoUniverseBC]

People tend to be quite rude in MMOs in general. The worst experience was when the Rakghoul resurgence event was launched I was taking screenshots of the areas and I was in the cave of some imperials farming one of the champions and they started cursing and telling me to leave and when I told them I was just taking some screenshots and looking around they started calling me names and being quite hostile. I told them that I was sorry for being in their area and they harassed me more.

I just ignored these players and moved on with my day. Whenever someone is being rude in MMOs I just tend to kill them with kindness and ignore them.

[DomiSotto]

By the time you hit midgame levels, you should have a basic understanding of how the class works. There are a lot of bad players in the game that just don't click with basic understand how things work and people get frustrated very quickly with it. A tank class should have a proper build and proper stance by the time they reach midgame. One thing I am against is people wasting others time with flashpoints / heroics so I can understand others getting upset quickly.

 

When I start a new MMO and I don't have the basics down yet, I try to stay away from grouping so I don't waste people's time with screwing up. I would expect the same courtesy out of others but sadly that is not always the case.

 

The problem is that the game is actively directing you to do Flashpoints and the PvP.

 

You trip over FP couriers.

 

You get Tooltips about Group finders.

 

Heroics 4+ are thrown out generously, while Heroics 2+ are RARE.

 

If you have never played a MMO, like me, you would have no clue whatsoever not just which stats you need, but that there are stats beyond your primary that befit your class. So, what you get is a combination of a former SP player who was rolling around happily playing PvE who one day decides to go do a Flashpoint AND a hugely unexpected crazy increase in difficulty of the game. Or a Heroic 4+. The switch in difficulty is so steep that you get killed instantly. You wonder why. You wonder what the heck agro is, because to be honest, typing to a group is a new discovery to you. And you have spent valuable 10 sec trying to untangle yourself from the group line in the window. During which the whole party zoomed out somewhere....

 

And gods forbid you step into PvP simply because you can (is not it a sub's option? Am I missing out?). BAD idea.

Edited April 22, 2014 by DomiSotto

[horrorfaneightys]

While I tend to agree with majority of your post, I don't understand your last statement. You mean in order to do SM Flashpoints or Operations you need to watch them on youtube first?

Well, I do Flashpoints for the story. If I ever try an operation, I'd like to be awed by some huge monster first time I see it

 

I don't have anything against really quick, efficient and professional people in this game, but shouldn't they play HMs or in their own (efficient and professional) guilds? Of course only the ones that find playing with casual players so disgusting.

 

This is my thinking. Me not wanting to watch the FP/OP before I attempt it is because I play the game for the story too. Having to study beforehand is like being told the plot of a film before you go into the cinema to watch it - it ruins the enjoyment. But I should add that I don't do group content in this game because I can't guarantee being at the computer for long stretches of time. So if I do any flashpoints I over-level them and then solo them. But I wouldn't even attempt HM at all.

[Heal-To-Full]

While I tend to agree with majority of your post, I don't understand your last statement. You mean in order to do SM Flashpoints or Operations you need to watch them on youtube first?

Flashpoints no. Reading a quick guide for the boss helps, wasting time on videos are seriously overkill.

 

Operations have Story, Hard and Nightmare modes. NiM is ever touched by maybe 0.5% of the players, so basically Story and Hard.

 

Story is supposed to be for, well, enjoying the story. But that only applies if your whole group is geared in equipment comparable to what the operation drops and experienced with hard modes. If you're lacking in anything, you need to read up beforehand to compensate.

Hard is supposed to be for gear and you're definitely expected to learn from others' mistakes and not just your own.

 

 

The worst experience was when the Rakghoul resurgence event was launched I was taking screenshots of the areas and I was in the cave of some imperials farming one of the champions and they started cursing and telling me to leave

But they didn't attack you? That's pretty nice of them. When I was doing the event, it was "red means dead". Then whole raid groups went around wiping one another instead of the boss.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Heal-To-Full

[Garster]

While I tend to agree with majority of your post, I don't understand your last statement. You mean in order to do SM Flashpoints or Operations you need to watch them on youtube first?

Well, I do Flashpoints for the story. If I ever try an operation, I'd like to be awed by some huge monster first time I see it

 

I don't have anything against really quick, efficient and professional people in this game, but shouldn't they play HMs or in their own (efficient and professional) guilds? Of course only the ones that find playing with casual players so disgusting.

 

No, you don't NEED to do anything. But FPs and Ops obviously aren't passive encounters where you sit back alone and watch it like a movie . You're in there with other people where certain actions are expected of you and the natural inclination (at least for normal, thoughtful people) is to learn what those expectations are before you just go in there, decide to wing it and waste everyone's time.

 

My point was that this latter attitude of "I'll play the way I want to play even if I'm bad and I won't take any criticism" can be just as rude as someone who calls you out for doing dumb things.

[Drockter]

Its funny, and I may be a little insane, but I like doing FP's and Ops with new players. Their sense of awe and wonder, enthusiasm is contagious.

 

Last night, is a great example. Was running a SnV, a newish-to-ops player wanted to join, good guy, have FP'd and Heroic'd with him wanted to go. I had no problem. Most of his gear met the minimum requirement for the mission as defined by the game (Mission text), while several others were over geared. So I had no issue with him joining. Within minutes, I was getting tells to kick him from the ops as undergeared. Then people started commenting in chat... and he left... apologizing on his way out.

 

He signed off, a little later he came back on to apologize to me again personally. The thing is, he met the basic requirements, and for the couple pieces that didn't there were many others that more than made up for it. He would need a little extra attention by the healers (me being one, and had no issue with it). He had nothing to apologize for.

 

We did another Ops, and had absolutely no issue. He died once. He had a great time, was in awe, was so excited with the prospect of more. Can I say it was the fastest Ops I had ever done, no. But it is one of the funnest.

[LegoUniverseBC]

 

But they didn't attack you? That's pretty nice of them. When I was doing the event, it was "red means dead". Then whole raid groups went around wiping one another instead of the boss.

No they didn't but they wanted me to put my flag and they said they wanted to kick my a** in PvP.

It was the opposite of being nice. It was my first time doing the event and I didn't even once try to go after their champion but they chose to be hostile to me. Those type of players are extremely rude even when I said sorry they continued to harass me. It was quite rude.

Edited April 22, 2014 by LegoUniverseBC

[Drockter]

No, you don't NEED to do anything. But FPs and Ops obviously aren't passive encounters where you sit back alone and watch it like a movie . You're in there with other people where certain actions are expected of you and the natural inclination (at least for normal, thoughtful people) is to learn what those expectations are before you just go in there, decide to wing it and waste everyone's time.

 

My point was that this latter attitude of "I'll play the way I want to play even if I'm bad and I won't take any criticism" can be just as rude as someone who calls you out for doing dumb things.

 

QFT: There are two sides to every coin. My previous posts looked at it from the Elitist=Bad. There are of course the flip side where the Soloist who wants to do it his/her way. Equally annoying.

[ZahirS]

One thing is missing, respect.

 

I seen too many peudo-romans roaming around trying to be supremacist over the rest, this need to stop the roman empire died out, we live in peaceful societies build in common effort I dislike this behavior and they should keep it home.

[horrorfaneightys]

No, you don't NEED to do anything. But FPs and Ops obviously aren't passive encounters where you sit back alone and watch it like a movie . You're in there with other people where certain actions are expected of you and the natural inclination (at least for normal, thoughtful people) is to learn what those expectations are before you just go in there, decide to wing it and waste everyone's time.

 

My point was that this latter attitude of "I'll play the way I want to play even if I'm bad and I won't take any criticism" can be just as rude as someone who calls you out for doing dumb things.

 

There's a difference between wanting to experience the story without looking it up in advance and not taking advice about what to do in the instance. If someone tells you need to adopt a certain stance, or gives you advice on the right gear, it should be listened to. But there's always someone who's going to ignore any advice or pointers. And we can ignore them right back.

[wilsonstone]

These kind of people are the other end of the spectrum, and quite frankly I dislike them much more than noobs. Larger percentage of noobs can be helped with advice than people claim. The "stop having fun" guys cannot be helped.

 

Whats the fastest way to distract someone from reading this thread? Link in to TVtropes.

[ZooMzy]

Please

 

At the end of the day, there are an overwhelming majority who will hide behind the excuse of "it's just a game" to dodge responsibility for a failure.

 

People are contradictory: they want to have fun, and they label fun as tangible rewards, such as winning WZs, having hard fought WZs, clearing operation bosses, seeing content, or making money.

 

What people still fail to see is that just like the real world, all of these things require effort and work unless you are the most talented player in the game, gifted with knowledge without having any real experience and can do everything without trying nearly as hard as someone who may not have all the answers in their head from the start.

 

In the end, it boils down to what people define as having fun: playing the game overall, or the achievements you make.

 

People need to stop choosing the latter if they keep saying "it's just a game". Because no one accomplishes anything without putting effort into something and being somewhat serious, in real life or the virtual world.

[Heal-To-Full]

No they didn't but they wanted me to put my flag and they said they wanted to kick my a** in PvP.

This is why, IMHO, PvE servers don't belong in any MMO with multiple playable factions (they're fine with single faction). When players aren't allowed to do what they would do in-universe - attack you - they end up substituting other actions for it.

 

On a PvP server, they'd just kill you and move on. No hate, no bad feelings, just an extra point to the counter.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Heal-To-Full

[The_Grand_Nagus]

This is why, IMHO, PvE servers don't belong in any MMO with multiple playable factions (they're fine with single faction). When players aren't allowed to do what they would do in-universe - attack you - they end up substituting other actions for it.

 

On a PvP server, they'd just kill you and move on. No hate, no bad feelings, just an extra point to the counter.

 

LOL right. Except for the tiny little fact that the majority of players dont PvP, or(key word) only want to do it when they are ready. So your nice little idea would actually kill the game when the majority of people quit playing. So I'll take some rude behavior every now and then rather than no game at all, thank you very much

Edited April 22, 2014 by The_Grand_Nagus

[howieloader]

Wow... So many carebears... Everyone needs to grow a thicker skin and get over being offended on the internet...