Are the changes in the patch notes for 2.4 on pts what vanguard needs?

[WAJWOZ]

I have just look at the patch notes on the 2.4 pts and realise these may change but from looking at them and understanding we don't actually know how much some skills have changed as it just says a little damage reduction. Does it seem that this will bring us on par with the rest of the classes in pvp and a little pve as I don't really feel vg is underpowered in pve being one of the few that plays vg dps. I was tank before 2.0 so can't recall at all the glory days of the vg especially in pvp. In the patch notes here http://www.swtor.com/test-center/patchnotes. I have adapted the very common 2/22/22 hybrid used by most vg and pt dps to a 2/28/16 build to take advantage of the new bonus to havoc training for the 30% crit bonus to pulse cannon or flamethrower. Is this wise or is the crit bonus to hib and ion pulse from the assault trooper more valuable. I know we can't have definitive answer s it's not live and I can't g on pts ATM.

But thoughts would be valued. Also the dmg reduction to some skills and ammo reduction is nice as this is an obvious bonus if it goes live.

How do we all feel with the changes and how do you feel they will put us when it goes live in pvp and pve.

Sorry about some spelling stupid iPhone auto correct may have changed some abbreviations.

Thanks in advance and hope I haven't missed anything from miss reading the patch notes

[Dordrac]

I personally use the 8/22/16 build, but as Pulse Cannon/Flame Thrower is the highest damage skill we have (20-25% of total damage) it may be a very good choice to test a build like that. I haven't actually used the 2/22/22, but both the one I'm using and that one were both roughly equally viable. I would definitely test that 2/28/16 build as a viable choice, though.

 

As no one has actually tested the changes (that I know of) I would just test all three and see what you get for numbers. Although, with the changes to IR, and pulse cannon, it may be possible to use IR in a 8/22/16 build and keep it up constantly (which wasn't really possible before).

[WAJWOZ]

Yeah I agree however I don't really use ir a lot ATM per 2.4 as it is quite hard t fit in with the high ammo cost and difficult ammo maintanance but with the patch notes for pts I think it may become a viable skill for dps come 2.4 however not sure how much they will beef it by but hey let's wait and see may try you spec when I get a chance always up for something new

[Siphorus]

No.... Not at all for PVP. Pyro > AP STILL even after nerfs. This is coming from a hardcore pvper.

[WAJWOZ]

No.... Not at all for PVP. Pyro > AP STILL even after nerfs. This is coming from a hardcore pvper.

 

The hybrid spec I was talking about above is for pve as about 40-50% of all the damage you will do in a fight and that's possible as bosses normally stay still or have predictable movement. However it's quite the opposite in pvp as HIB and Ion pulse and plamsa cell is most of damage In pvp not pulse cannon so yeah I definitely think Pryor or assault specialist is better for pvp even with nerfs. But tbh I not really sure cause I use my arts for pvp so really my vg.

[Vagilante]

It seems they are trying to discourage hybrids by giving AP more burst and shifting the damage/cell regen to FP...

 

Does the PC proc stacking apply to the slow too? 90%!?

[WAJWOZ]

It seems they are trying to discourage hybrids by giving AP more burst and shifting the damage/cell regen to FP...

 

Does the PC proc stacking apply to the slow too? 90%!?

 

Not to sure if it stacks. Iam actually really annoyed about them pushing tactics as I played it before my hybrid and really hated it. However I really love vanguard as its become a sort of unique class for dps. But tbh seems like aim better of playing my sentinel and lose all the aoe or my gunslinger or commando which I don't wanna do as I love Melee dps. It's actually really annoying as vanguard dps is a Melee aoe boss and that's unique.

[Marb]

I can confirm that the slow and heat cost reduction on prototype flame thrower are stacking. Combined, a three stack flame thrower is 18 heat and applies a 90%(?) movement speed debuff along with the usual +60% damage increase. It was hard to tell if the debuff was exactly 90% (as opposed to the old 70% slow), but it was definitely higher then a 30% movement speed reduction.

 

The cumulative results of the changes are a direct buff to AP damage output through the improved immolate, crit bonus on rocket punch, surge bonus on flame thrower, and indirectly with heat cost adjustments on flame thrower and prototype cylinder ventilation.

 

The snare nerf on pyro seems to be misguided. I can see from a design point of view why they would have done it, but it is going to eliminate one of only areas where pyro was remaining somewhat strong, and that was kiting operatives with flame burst spam. pyro continues to lack burst and survivability to be competitive in ranked pvp. I hope to see further changes to pyro on the pts, perhaps reshuffling more of our damage to thermal detonator's explosion, giving us a reason to use incendiary missile and giving automated defenses some love.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Marb

[Chickensevil]

No.... Not at all for PVP. Pyro > AP STILL even after nerfs. This is coming from a hardcore pvper.

 

What spec are you running that you would say that? Cause AP has more burst, more natural defense through talents, and higher natural movement speed. The only gimp is that you can stop the FT cast with a stun. Pyro TD or no TD is just not there for burst, and is super squish. The ONLY thing a pyro has, is the slow attached to CGC, which is practically needed since you run all the time at normal movement speed... So assuming you can even catch up to the class in the first place THEN you can slow them, assuming they haven't blown your face off first since you lack any real defense. Then all you end up doing is slowing them, and you are relying on someone else to kill them for you, since you lack any real burst in pyro.

 

Am I missing something?

[OldSpiceSwag]

No.... Not at all for PVP. Pyro > AP STILL even after nerfs. This is coming from a hardcore pvper.

 

first of all: LOL NO HAHAHAHAHAAHA "HARDCORE PLAYER??" PLEASE AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA ap>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>pyro

 

second: "are the changes in the patch notes for 2.4 on pts what vanguard needs?"

 

answer:

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO 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NO NO NO

 

[Luckeyduckey]

first of all: LOL NO HAHAHAHAHAAHA "HARDCORE PLAYER??" PLEASE AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA ap>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>pyro

 

second: "are the changes in the patch notes for 2.4 on pts what vanguard needs?"

 

answer:

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO 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NO NO NO

 

Right. That's why in 2.4, more teams run VGs than smashers. Pulse Cannon > Smash.

[Keypek]

Right. That's why in 2.4, more teams run VGs than smashers. Pulse Cannon > Smash.

 

I don't think that gimmick will stick. Yes it is very powerful if coordinated well but teams need to learn not to bunch up and coordinate cc. Coordinating awes and choke stuns would easily destroy a team of VGs. Not to mention a team of rdps shouldn't have any issues with a team of VGs if they are smart. Having said that I do think there is now a place for tactics VGs. I think it'd be smart for most teams to have one. But not 3. PC is not better than smash but a very good tool to use with smash.

 

Unfortunately assault still kinda sucks. Especially since every group has an op healer pretty much.

[Brunner_Venda]

Right. That's why in 2.4, more teams run VGs than smashers. Pulse Cannon > Smash.

 

I keep hearing this, but I don't think it's true.

 

Pulse cannon pulls more damage than smash in a three second channeled attac, with one tick per second, only if all three crit right?

 

That's three seconds. In that time a sent/Mara can get in two attacks that hit for more than that, and more consistently. Force sweep and dispatch anyone?

[af_raptura]

I keep hearing this, but I don't think it's true.

 

Pulse cannon pulls more damage than smash in a three second channeled attac, with one tick per second, only if all three crit right?

 

That's three seconds. In that time a sent/Mara can get in two attacks that hit for more than that, and more consistently. Force sweep and dispatch anyone?

 

Not only that, but smashes are unstoppable. Even if you keep stunning a smasher, they will get one off eventually.

[Aetideus]

Not only that, but smashes are unstoppable. Even if you keep stunning a smasher, they will get one off eventually.

 

I cannot find something competitive in a Vanguard DPS. Tank seems the only viable in Arenas. Maybe a tanky dps without having tested it.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Aetideus