First Question Rough Draft

[Kindran]

well no one plays that damn game anymore anyway

 

 

give us a resource drain in madness

 

op heals and madness force management solved

 

No, a resource drain would be counterproductive to what the Sage/Sorcerer class needs.

 

Madness / Balance needs DoT protection, better single target dps, Wrath / Presence of Mind to stack up to 2 times and better force management for AoE.

 

Lightning / TK needs more damage placed into Thundering Blast / Turbulence and better damage options while moving, I also do not like using Crushing Darkness / Mind Crush in this spec and it just feels counterproductive to use.

 

Corruption / Seer needs an emergency single target friendly heal and Resurgence / Rejuvenate to give 2 stacks of Force Bending / Conveyence.

 

All specs need a passive damage reduction or an actual good defensive cooldown that has around a 90 second cooldown and some form of raid wide utility, be it passive or a cooldown. I believe these are the changes that are needed in order to put us inline with other classes.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Kindran

[wwkingms]

No, a resource drain would be counterproductive to what the Sage/Sorcerer class needs.

 

Madness / Balance needs DoT protection, better single target dps, Wrath / Presence of Mind to stack up to 2 times and better force management for AoE.

 

Lightning / TK needs more damage placed into Thundering Blast / Turbulence and better damage options while moving, I also do not like using Crushing Darkness / Mind Crush in this spec and it just feels counterproductive to use.

 

Corruption / Seer needs an emergency single target friendly heal and Resurgence / Rejuvenate to give 2 stacks of Force Bending / Conveyence.

 

All specs need a passive damage reduction or an actual good defensive cooldown that has around a 90 second cooldown and some form of raid wide utility, be it passive or a cooldown. I believe these are the changes that are needed in order to put us inline with other classes.

 

how the fk would a resource drain be counter productive to madness

 

maybe you should look up the term because it would in fact be very fking productive

 

the single target dmg is just fine with madness, its just not bursty..... the resource drain can apply pressure to healers, while helping sorcs with their own resource.

 

 

the dot protection is a given, madness isnt an aoe build so it doesnt need just aoe force management.. if ur spamming lightning storm madness isnt the build for you..

 

the other issue is madness off healing.. so many things are in consideration of our classes ability to off heal, however as madness, any offf healing at all will run you dry of force

 

i also will bump my own suggestion of helping madness sorc finish off low hp target which it has difficulty doing... possible talents to improve dot/ force lightning dmg to targets with <30% hp could significantly assist us in finishing targets with madness

 

or even increase dot/force lightning crit chance by 100% on targets below 20% which is effectively an execute without handing us the 8k crit like other classes

Edited August 15, 2013 by wwkingms

[Kindran]

how the fk would a resource drain be counter productive to madness

 

maybe you should look up the term because it would in fact be very fking productive

 

the single target dmg is just fine with madness, its just not bursty..... the resource drain can apply pressure to healers, while helping sorcs with their own resource.

 

 

the dot protection is a given, madness isnt an aoe build so it doesnt need just aoe force management.. if ur spamming lightning storm madness isnt the build for you..

 

the other issue is madness off healing.. so many things are in consideration of our classes ability to off heal, however as madness, any offf healing at all will run you dry of force

 

i also will bump my own suggestion of helping madness sorc finish off low hp target which it has difficulty doing... possible talents to improve dot/ force lightning dmg to targets with <30% hp could significantly assist us in finishing targets with madness

 

or even increase dot/force lightning crit chance by 100% on targets below 20% which is effectively an execute without handing us the 8k crit like other classes

 

You are just thinking of the PvP side. Those of us that actually want change try to find things for both PvP and PvE. A resource drain would be another ability to cast, which would lower dps.

 

The single target damage is not fine. I currently hold the highest dps done on a dummy (pure single target) for Madness / Balance and I can tell you, we ARE behind. Any parse from a raid that shows a Sage or Sorcerer anywhere near the top spot is due to the extra AoE near a main boss. IE Dread Guards, Dash'roode +adds, Titan-6 +adds, and etc.

 

Besides Lightning Storm for Madness and Force quake for Balance they only have 1 AoE ability on a 15 second cooldown that should be used for our single target damage. Yes it does AoE and is nice, but we need to use the main AoE abilities in PvE, which drains our force a LOT. In PvP, the only time we would use those AoEs would be to stop people from capping objectives in AoE. Otherwise it is a huge waste there.

 

Off healing should run a dps spec out of their resources. It is not our main roles and is treated as such. Lightning / TK have the same problem with the heals consuming their force now. I will say PvP has bigger problems with Force management just because you are casting bubbles, heals, multi-DoTs, and such. You also have to understand that your average PvP combat in warzones do not last very long, thus allowing you to regain lost resources.

 

If you do not give an execute as a direct damage crit, the other classes which have that will outclass us in PvP for the same reason, burst is king. The reason we have a hard time finishing people off is because of our low single target dps and lack of DoT protection. Also, I personally do not agree with execute mechanics as they do not promote strategic play. Its just BURST EM DOWN!!!!! In PvE where multiple variables are at play, having dps balanced around executes actually harms you more than it helps.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Kindran

[wwkingms]

You are just thinking of the PvP side. Those of us that actually want change try to find things for both PvP and PvE. A resource drain would be another ability to cast, which would lower dps.

 

The single target damage is not fine. I currently hold the highest dps done on a dummy (pure single target) for Madness / Balance and I can tell you, we ARE behind. Any parse from a raid that shows a Sage or Sorcerer anywhere near the top spot is due to the extra AoE near a main boss. IE Dread Guards, Dash'roode +adds, Titan-6 +adds, and etc.

 

Besides Lightning Storm for Madness and Force quake for Balance they only have 1 AoE ability on a 15 second cooldown that should be used for our single target damage. Yes it does AoE and is nice, but we need to use the main AoE abilities in PvE, which drains our force a LOT. In PvP, the only time we would use those AoEs would be to stop people from capping objectives in AoE. Otherwise it is a huge waste there.

 

Off healing should run a dps spec out of their resources. It is not our main roles and is treated as such. Lightning / TK have the same problem with the heals consuming their force now. I will say PvP has bigger problems with Force management just because you are casting bubbles, heals, multi-DoTs, and such. You also have to understand that your average PvP combat in warzones do not last very long, thus allowing you to regain lost resources.

 

If you do not give an execute as a direct damage crit, the other classes which have that will outclass us in PvP for the same reason, burst is king. The reason we have a hard time finishing people off is because of our low single target dps and lack of DoT protection. Also, I personally do not agree with execute mechanics as they do not promote strategic play. Its just BURST EM DOWN!!!!! In PvE where multiple variables are at play, having dps balanced around executes actually harms you more than it helps.

 

well yes you right i only think of pvp, but saying burst is king, in relation to the madness spec.. then idk what to tell u

 

i like the heavier dot and FL dmg as an execute, i certainly dont want an ez mode execute like the faceroll classes.

 

i suggested before that the resource leech could be tied right into creeping terror, so no extra cast and it would help u in pve as well

 

maybe u dont pvp enough but non healers are very easy targets 1v1 as madness, yea if they pop all their cooldowns it will be a ***** but madness is good dmg and most good pvp sorcs will tell you that

 

on boss fights the increased crit chance or dmg for an execute would out perform that of the big ability executes from other classes seeing as 2-3 dots and fl auto critting from the boss being 20-30% and down is a still a long time

 

agree to disagree im just trying to solve madness pvp issues with new ideas and i think the resource drain tied to creeping terror is just that

[darthjanus]

Lightning / TK needs more damage placed into Thundering Blast / Turbulence and better damage options while moving, I also do not like using Crushing Darkness / Mind Crush in this spec and it just feels counterproductive to use.

 

I just wanted to echo this sentiment, especially regarding Crushing Darkness / Mind Crush. I know it contributes to our overall dps, but having two, two-second long cast time abilities hampers the spec. The ability simply feels out of place in the Lightning / TK rotation, and while it is probably not worthy of one of our upcoming questions, I do hope in the future that the spec can be slightly altered to exclude Crushing Darkness / Mind Crush, and leave it just for Madness / Balance.

[bbrooks]

I just wanted to echo this sentiment, especially regarding Crushing Darkness / Mind Crush. I know it contributes to our overall dps, but having two, two-second long cast time abilities hampers the spec. The ability simply feels out of place in the Lightning / TK rotation, and while it is probably not worthy of one of our upcoming questions, I do hope in the future that the spec can be slightly altered to exclude Crushing Darkness / Mind Crush, and leave it just for Madness / Balance.

 

I don't really mind the extra cast on CD, its annoying but lightning is a turret build so casts are to be expected. My biggest problem with Crushing Darkness is the fact that it get 0% pushback protection. Personally I think all abilities should be unaffected by pushback, but man crushing darkness can turn into a 3.5 second cast sometimes.

 

A few examples would be NiM Dreadguards, whenever I get targeted by force lightning during my Crushing Darkness cast, it kills my dps. Since the FL damage is random, you can really hold it and wait for downtime. The other fight that is a real pain is Titan 6. Putting off CD by any substantial amount of time will drop dps, and you would be a fool to try and cast it during lots of missiles.

 

It's just frustrating that we already have a pushback mechanic that lowers our dps when attacked, but Crushing Darkness needs some sort of pushback resistance, especially if they expect it to be used in our rotation.

 

That being said, in a stagnant parse or fight, It is a DPS gain

[MarkXXIV]

Sniper has 35 meter standard range, 40 meter execute, 40 meter interrupt, interrupt immunity, cc immunity, 25% ranged defense, extra 35% dmg reduction for first 3 attacks when in cover, best dot spec in the game, the best damage, no random procs, a dot cleanse, health/armor reduction in 1 ability, and the best cc in the game. Do not worry about sorc becoming op, worry about it becoming as good a dps option as sniper in pvp. I had to quit my merc and sorc like many others and play my sniper because it is just superior to the other 2 ranged dps options. Edited August 15, 2013 by MarkXXIV

[AdmiralParmesan]

I love crushing darkness in lightning spec. Honestly the spec would be way too boring if all you did was cast TB and LS and the ability is an excellent back-loaded burst option for pvp. That being said it truly should have at least 75% pushback resistance because if you are taking any real damage in pvp or pve it is a real nightmare to cast.

 

You could have a simple mechanic like

 

-force slow and shock reduce the cast time of crushing darkness by .5 seconds, stacks up to 2 times.

 

It would help the spec a tiny bit with mobility without introducing anything really OP

 

Regardless crushing darkness could really use some help for full lightning. It's not a "serious" problem but I can't imagine myself getting the chance to use this very often in arenas without a least push-back resistance.

[SEANeD]

It takes a madness sorc 3 dots with deathmark and 4 stacks of focal lightning to get on lightnings burst level of auto crits and double procs and alacrity procs to force lightning. You're Chain lightning hits for more than death field and lightning can't run out of force so you can use force storm on the reg so lightning has awesome AOE on top of the awesome single target damage. Maybe just leave crushing darkness out of the mix if it's that big of a deal and call it a day. Lightning was laughed at a few months ago and now people who already have Bis geared Snipers and Mercs are starting to roll sorcs. Chillax people we could still be in 1.7 Edited August 17, 2013 by SEANeD

[Chemic_al]

Chillax people we could still be in 1.7

 

Alright but I'm willing to bet warriors and snipers will be buffed, operatives won't be nerfed, and come 2.4, we'll still be bottom of the pile for wanted dps classes in wzs.

 

Heck you can make a great case for merc heals over sorcs in arenas now. We will be the least wanted healer.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Chemic_al

[MarkXXIV]

It takes a madness sorc 3 dots with deathmark and 4 stacks of focal lightning to get on lightnings burst level of auto crits and double procs and alacrity procs to force lightning. You're Chain lightning hits for more than death field and lightning can't run out of force so you can use force storm on the reg so lightning has awesome AOE on top of the awesome single target damage. Maybe just leave crushing darkness out of the mix if it's that big of a deal and call it a day. Lightning was laughed at a few months ago and now people who already have Bis geared Snipers and Mercs are starting to roll sorcs. Chillax people we could still be in 1.7

 

No one trying to win will be taking sorc to arena. Sorc could be worse but that does not make it any less bad than it still is.(sniper/op heals exist, no reason to ever play sorc in ranked)

Edited August 19, 2013 by MarkXXIV

[SEANeD]

Alright but I'm willing to bet warriors and snipers will be buffed, operatives won't be nerfed, and come 2.4, we'll still be bottom of the pile for wanted dps classes in wzs.

 

Heck you can make a great case for merc heals over sorcs in arenas now. We will be the least wanted healer.

 

Juggs might see a slight buff, marauders will get a slight buff to annihilation, but it will still not be viable, and snipers have no shot at getting buffs. Sorcs will get buffs and everything will be fine.

[SEANeD]

No one trying to win will be taking sorc to arena. Sorc could be worse but that does not make it any less bad than it still is.(sniper/op heals exist, no reason to ever play sorc in ranked)

 

I think sorc heals are fine right now, but if they are slightly tweaked with the suggestions by psi and nibbon they'll be optimal.

[wwkingms]

i personally dont like crushing darkness in the lightning build, it makes my rotation in PVP feel clunky, especially with there being two 2s activation time abilities

 

i know this might seem boring but maybe thundering blast could debuff the target making it more susceptible to following thundering blast/lightning strikes

 

possibly debuff the target so it takes 5% more dmg from ensuing thundering blasts and lightning strikes stacking twice

 

 

idk the lightning tree is lacking synergy and the madness tree lacking resources and dispell protection

 

 

perhaps these trees could use some follow up abilities like the sniper class has

 

"blast waved" after using thundering blast, for 5s you can use this ability, it does moderate dmg and ROOTS your target for 3s (root not broken by affliction)

 

just an example

 

 

or for Madness

 

 

"tremble" after landing crushing darkness on a target, for 5s you can tremble the target, knocking him down

 

 

 

 

i know ive brought this up before but i think bioware could introduce two new utilitys to this game

 

disarms and resource (mana) leech

 

disarm could be tied to lightning, and the resource leech to madness

Edited August 19, 2013 by wwkingms

[MarkXXIV]

Juggs might see a slight buff, marauders will get a slight buff to annihilation, but it will still not be viable, and snipers have no shot at getting buffs. Sorcs will get buffs and everything will be fine.

 

Sorc is fine if you aren't trying to win in arena. vengeance, carnage, annihilation all need work for arena to be optimal. Rage is probably the most boring spec in this game, no one rolled a marauder because they thought it was fun to smash.

[Arunas]

Talking about sorcerer lack of defensive cooldowns. Bounty hunters got their aggro dump ability in 2.0 do something extra. For example, arsenal has talent "Decoy: Chaff Flare has a [50 / 100]% chance to intercept and absorb the next incoming direct Force or tech attack. Lasts 6 seconds". It would be reasonable that we could have something added to our 45s cooldown Cloud mind.

[wwkingms]

Talking about sorcerer lack of defensive cooldowns. Bounty hunters got their aggro dump ability in 2.0 do something extra. For example, arsenal has talent "Decoy: Chaff Flare has a [50 / 100]% chance to intercept and absorb the next incoming direct Force or tech attack. Lasts 6 seconds". It would be reasonable that we could have something added to our 45s cooldown Cloud mind.

 

definitely dude

 

i remember posting something way back when about how a defensive cooldown could be tied to cloud mind

 

something like..

 

when activating cloud mind could confuse all the enemies around the sorcerer, making them Unable to target and therefor hit the sorc with single target abilities for 5 seconds

 

 

this obviously leaves us susceptible to aoe etc, but i think its a fair and unique ability to introduce to sorcs

[skarlson]

I actually love playing my marauder and rage is my favorite tree. The other two trees just don't flow well together IMO. Rage is a nice balance between force abilities and a melee ability as well. Everything flows well and it is easy to not have multiple things up at once.

[AdmiralParmesan]

Sorc is fine if you aren't trying to win in arena. vengeance, carnage, annihilation all need work for arena to be optimal. Rage is probably the most boring spec in this game, no one rolled a marauder because they thought it was fun to smash.

 

Do you literally go to every thread and complain about vengeance, carnage and annihilation? This is a sorceror thread by the way

[skarlson]

Well, just skimmed the question responses. Basically it was just another big FU we know what things are like better than you do response list. Honestly, those people have on clue but at least I expected it. What a waste of time this was.

[Laforet]

You are wrong. You need to learn to play. You can heal yourself to full.