Is it time to retire Classic Coms and bring the other raids in line with the top end?

[ZionHalcyon]

This is just something I wanted to put out there, but one of the things I currently am disliking about the game is the Classic Coms and the grind for them, all to be made obsolete by the time you hit 55 anyway when you are earning basic coms and above, and gearing for Operations. The other part of that is you still have these great raids like Eternity Vault, Karragga's Palace, and Explosive Conflict that drop off the groupfinder map as soon as you hit 55.

 

50-55 is just way too short a span and makes the classic com grind seem pointless.

 

So I am asking - how would people feel if they did away with classic coms, added the classic looks to the armormech and synthweaving trees, and updated the 3 aforementioned operations to reflect this update, setting up perhaps Story modes of those operations to remain at 50 and give basic coms and Purple Artifact (66) gear, and the Hard modes of those operations to be scaled up to level 55 and give Elite Coms and Arkanian/Black Market rating 69 gear? This way, the Hard Modes of EV, KP, and EC would be on par with Story Mode S&V and TFB, and both Story and Hard Modes of those would be added back to the groupfinder, with all appropriate weekly missions updated to reflect the increase in difficulty.

 

The idea is to give more options to gear up, more access to these great raids that right now probably have been relegated to guild runs for weekly coms, and eliminate a part of the game that at least to me feels unnecessary at this point, at least to the end of gearing up for the harder flashpoints and operations.

 

 

Thoughts? Agree? Disagree? and either way, Why?

 

 

 

Cliff Notes if you need them:

 

 

• Classic Coms go away, replaced with Basic Coms
  
• All Weeklys updated to reflect Operation Changes
  

 

Story Mode Karraga's Palace, Eternity Vault, Explosive Conflict:

•Level 50 (thus accessible to people who don't have expansion)

•Basic Coms Granted

•Gear Drops are Rating 66 Purple Artifact Gear (Which is redone to requirement Level 50)

 

 

Hard Mode Karraga's Palace, Eternity Vault, Explosive Conflict:

•Level 55

•Elite Coms Granted

•Gear Drops are Rating 69 Purple Arkanian and Black Market Gear

• Difficulty on par with Story Mode Terror From Beyond and Scum & Villany

 

Nightmare Mode Karraga's Palace, Eternity Vault, Explosive Conflict:

•Level 55

•Elite Coms Granted

•Gear Drops are Rating 72 Purple Gear

• Difficulty on par with Hard Mode Terror From Beyond and Scum & Villany

Edited August 9, 2013 by ZionHalcyon

[jamesvasquez]

I wouldn't be opposed to it. Seems like a lot of rework, and anything major done in PvE space at this juncture would potentially be detrimental to the PvP crowd. I think it'd be a great idea to implement making the 3 Ops as lvl 55 and then updating the daily areas to give out basic comms instead of any classic comms, but that'd be a really big patch. There should probably be a couple of back-to-back PvP patches before something like this.

[Corsiero]

You forget that there are still those who may not have bought the expansion and therefore are stuck at 50. These operations possibly remain 50 so they still have content to hit, and may likely stay that way for some time.

[jamesvasquez]

You forget that there are still those who may not have bought the expansion and therefore are stuck at 50. These operations possibly remain 50 so they still have content to hit, and may likely stay that way for some time.

 

This is a fair point I did not consider. However, if the Ops are moved to 55, those players may also have incentive to purchase the expac.

[hadoken]

You forget that there are still those who may not have bought the expansion and therefore are stuck at 50. These operations possibly remain 50 so they still have content to hit, and may likely stay that way for some time.

 

Yea in general it's a bad idea to restrict content once available with release to the latest expansion only.

 

I would like to see those raids be relevant in some fashion to 55s to encourage them to go, but not sure how to do that other than giving various commendations they would use (which seems kinda dull).

[Icebergy]

No. They already made the mistake of scaling up TfB and calling it new content, if they made KP and EV the next tiers of raids, I would most likely end up quitting the game due to boredom.

 

Raiders need NEW content, not the same thing redone and called new.

[ZionHalcyon]

This is a fair point I did not consider. However, if the Ops are moved to 55, those players may also have incentive to purchase the expac.

 

Not to mention in my idea, those people would still have access to the Story Mode of Eternity Vault, Karragga's Palace, and Explosive Conflict, as I said in my original post.

[ZionHalcyon]

No. They already made the mistake of scaling up TfB and calling it new content, if they made KP and EV the next tiers of raids, I would most likely end up quitting the game due to boredom.

 

Raiders need NEW content, not the same thing redone and called new.

 

You are confusing the issue. This is in no way meant to be "hey guys, new content!" This is a call for a rebalancing of the tiers in a way that makes more sense.

 

Your issue of them repurposing content and then calling it new is a separate issue from this one and the two should not be confused with each other.

[DarthBurton]

No. They already made the mistake of scaling up TfB and calling it new content, if they made KP and EV the next tiers of raids, I would most likely end up quitting the game due to boredom.

 

Raiders need NEW content, not the same thing redone and called new.

 

I would quit if they DON'T redesign it. I, as a raider, want old content to be still relevant, and right now, neither EC, EV or KP are relevant. Raiders need MORE content, not only new things. More variety would be welcome, an upscaling of the existing ones can provide it in addition with the new ones you are asking for.

 

At least scale EC, EV and KP nightmare modes to 55 with the appropiate challenge and loot.

[jamesvasquez]

I would quit if they DON'T redesign it. I, as a raider, want old content to be still relevant, and right now, neither EC, EV or KP are relevant. Raiders need MORE content, not only new things. More variety would be welcome, an upscaling of the existing ones can provide it in addition with the new ones you are asking for.

 

At least scale EC, EV and KP nightmare modes to 55 with the appropiate challenge and loot.

 

Really? You would quit? That seems a bit excessive, but by all means to each is own. And "to each is own" is the proper way of saying that before any one starts getting up-in-arms about it.

[ZionHalcyon]

Really? You would quit? That seems a bit excessive, but by all means to each is own. And "to each is own" is the proper way of saying that before any one starts getting up-in-arms about it.

 

This really is something that affects those of us who raid a lot, and gear our toons to raid once they hit 50.

 

There is a real lack of variety with just hitting S&V and TFB over and over and over, and finding a way to work EV, EC, and KP back into the rotation and make them matter would go a long way with us, as well as eliminating the unnecessary need to grind classic coms, from this perspective.

[Icebergy]

I would quit if they DON'T redesign it. I, as a raider, want old content to be still relevant, and right now, neither EC, EV or KP are relevant. Raiders need MORE content, not only new things. More variety would be welcome, an upscaling of the existing ones can provide it in addition with the new ones you are asking for.

 

At least scale EC, EV and KP nightmare modes to 55 with the appropiate challenge and loot.

 

Why? It is there if you want to go run it. This is a huge waste of developer time.

 

Really? You would quit? That seems a bit excessive, but by all means to each is own. And "to each is own" is the proper way of saying that before any one starts getting up-in-arms about it.

 

It wasn't a threat or anything, but I don't play games that I don't find fun. And if I have to run the same raids over and over that is not fun. TfB was horrible enough, we've been running TfB for close to a year now.

 

To the OP, I would be OK with it if as you said they only put Arkanian gear or something on it, but if they put the newest gear on it I would be very unhappy. Even if they put the second highest current tier on it, that would not be OK with me.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Icebergy

[GatorAndy]

I would quit if they DON'T redesign it. I, as a raider, want old content to be still relevant, and right now, neither EC, EV or KP are relevant. Raiders need MORE content, not only new things. More variety would be welcome, an upscaling of the existing ones can provide it in addition with the new ones you are asking for.

 

At least scale EC, EV and KP nightmare modes to 55 with the appropiate challenge and loot.

 

I am so tired of doing EV, KP, and (slightly less) EC. There should be Ops available to those stuck at level 50, as well as those leveling from 50-55. Just because they're "irrelevant" to YOU, doesn't mean they're not relevant to others. The mechanics tend to be a bit easier, and are a good entry point for those that may want to start doing Ops. Also, there's nothing preventing a 55 from doing the level 50 Ops now. In fact, there is still a weekly mission for completing one of them in HM.

 

I don't want them to scale them up or force me to have to do them AGAIN to get higher level gear. I also get tired of the same 2 Ops at 55, but rehashing the ones I've done for over a year now is not the way to freshen things up. There is a new Op coming with 2.4, and I hope that there will be another in a few months or so.

 

Basically, I believe they should leave them alone, and not spend time scaling up old content.

 

That being said, if at some point in the future, assuming this game lasts for several more years, I wouldn't be opposed to them adding 4th tier of difficulty for them. As this would bring what would at that point be a bit of nostalgia back. But, I'm talking at least 2-3 years down the road. Not now, too soon.

[ZionHalcyon]

Can I take this time to ask people to stay on point with the concept?

 

 

Cliff Notes if you need them:

 

Story Mode Karraga's Palace, Eternity Vault, Explosive Conflict:

• Level 50 (thus accessible to people who don't have expansion)
  
• Basic Coms Granted
  
• Gear Drops are Rating 66 Purple Artifact Gear
  

 

 

Hard Mode Karraga's Palace, Eternity Vault, Explosive Conflict:

• Level 55
  
• Elite Coms Granted
  
• Gear Drops are Rating 69 Purple Arkanian and Black Market Gear
  
• Difficulty on par with Story Mode Terror From Beyond and Scum & Villany
  

 

Nightmare Mode Karraga's Palace, Eternity Vault, Explosive Conflict:

• Level 55
  
• Elite Coms Granted
  
• Gear Drops are Rating 72 Purple Gear
  
• Difficulty on par with Hard Mode Terror From Beyond and Scum & Villany
  

 

 

Hope that helps as the discussion goes further.

[hadoken]

You are confusing the issue. This is in no way meant to be "hey guys, new content!" This is a call for a rebalancing of the tiers in a way that makes more sense.

 

Your issue of them repurposing content and then calling it new is a separate issue from this one and the two should not be confused with each other.

 

Not necessarily as development time spent rebalancing old content could be spent on generating new content. This is not the case of two different teams doing two different things. It would be the same people (unless they were to hire more).

[Corsiero]

Level 50s can't use 66 purples cause they have a level 53 requirement. It's like you don't read or pay attention to any of the gear at all. Edited August 9, 2013 by Corsiero

[ImpactHound]

Really? You would quit? That seems a bit excessive, but by all means to each is own. And "to each is own" is the proper way of saying that before any one starts getting up-in-arms about it.

 

I've never seen more outrage than when WoW left Icecrown Citadel as the current content for a few days shy of a full year. Lost a lot of subscribers out of boredom, despite how well designed & fun the raid was.

[MillionsKNives]

And "to each is own" is the proper way of saying that before any one starts getting up-in-arms about it.

 

Are you sure about that? I can't find any reference to your version, as every result gives back "to each his own". I'd like to see your source for that.

 

Can I take this time to ask people to stay on point with the concept?

 

 

Cliff Notes if you need them:

 

Story Mode Karraga's Palace, Eternity Vault, Explosive Conflict:

• Level 50 (thus accessible to people who don't have expansion)
  
• Basic Coms Granted
  
• Gear Drops are Rating 66 Purple Artifact Gear
  

 

 

Hard Mode Karraga's Palace, Eternity Vault, Explosive Conflict:

• Level 55
  
• Elite Coms Granted
  
• Gear Drops are Rating 69 Purple Arkanian and Black Market Gear
  
• Difficulty on par with Story Mode Terror From Beyond and Scum & Villany
  

 

Nightmare Mode Karraga's Palace, Eternity Vault, Explosive Conflict:

• Level 55
  
• Elite Coms Granted
  
• Gear Drops are Rating 72 Purple Gear
  
• Difficulty on par with Hard Mode Terror From Beyond and Scum & Villany
  

 

 

Hope that helps as the discussion goes further.

 

I support this. I really liked the old ops and would like to have a reason to run them again. It gets a bit stale doing the same two ops over and over.

[Billoneofmany]

Leave the ops at level 50 as they are now. Add them to the group finder for 55s. Change the loot drops to:

 

Sm EV and KP campaign lvl

Sm EC HM EV KP dread guard (so people can get set bonuses)

HM EC 66s gear. This is level 53 gear and would give incentive to run this op for reasonable upgrades.

 

Don't know about NiM.

[ZionHalcyon]

Not necessarily as development time spent rebalancing old content could be spent on generating new content. This is not the case of two different teams doing two different things. It would be the same people (unless they were to hire more).

 

I hear this arguement a lot. The truth of it is that neither you nor I know exactly how a rebalancing would affect content, although I'd lean towards it not being nearly as long as developing new content from scratch.

 

Case in point, people before when discussing Bioware making new content were swearing up and down they couldn't do so because of the cost of voice acting, before someone from bioware came in and said that isn't the case.

 

I get your fear, but at some point you can't let your fear control how you want Bioware to go about making the game better. My suggestion, I think, would make it better. You can't be afraid that working on one thing means losing something else. Oft times, they are juggling many things at once, so its a bit unfair to think of their development as something done in a linear fashion - call it a lession I learned from a previous MMO I played, where the same arguments were had, and just as false in that regard.

[ZionHalcyon]

Level 50s can't use 66 purples cause they have a level 53 requirement. It's like you don't read or pay attention to any of the gear at all.

 

Then scale down the level 66 purples to support level 50. problem solved. Plus it fills in the void of the classic coms.

 

But thank you for that nugget, though snide, because its this sort of feedback that does help me refine the idea.

[Icebergy]

Can I take this time to ask people to stay on point with the concept?

 

 

Cliff Notes if you need them:

 

Story Mode Karraga's Palace, Eternity Vault, Explosive Conflict:

• Level 50 (thus accessible to people who don't have expansion)
  
• Basic Coms Granted
  
• Gear Drops are Rating 66 Purple Artifact Gear
  

 

 

Hard Mode Karraga's Palace, Eternity Vault, Explosive Conflict:

• Level 55
  
• Elite Coms Granted
  
• Gear Drops are Rating 69 Purple Arkanian and Black Market Gear
  
• Difficulty on par with Story Mode Terror From Beyond and Scum & Villany
  

 

Nightmare Mode Karraga's Palace, Eternity Vault, Explosive Conflict:

• Level 55
  
• Elite Coms Granted
  
• Gear Drops are Rating 72 Purple Gear
  
• Difficulty on par with Hard Mode Terror From Beyond and Scum & Villany
  

 

 

Hope that helps as the discussion goes further.

 

Change it to:

 

Story is 50 and drops Classic comms and Campaign gear.

Hard is 50 and drops Classic comms and Dread Guard gear.

Nightmare is 55 and drops Basic comms and Artifact (66) gear.

 

And then I would be OK with it.

[oaceen]

You forget that there are still those who may not have bought the expansion and therefore are stuck at 50. These operations possibly remain 50 so they still have content to hit, and may likely stay that way for some time.

 

i think there could be something where they could be scaled to 50 or 55, depending on the group (IE, anyone under 55, it automatically scales to 50. this would intrinsically include anyone without the expansion.)

 

i have run them a few times since hitting 50, but it's more of a novelty for me, remembering 'way back when' and whatever, not really a challenge

[hadoken]

I get your fear, but at some point you can't let your fear control how you want Bioware to go about making the game better. My suggestion, I think, would make it better. You can't be afraid that working on one thing means losing something else. Oft times, they are juggling many things at once, so its a bit unfair to think of their development as something done in a linear fashion - call it a lession I learned from a previous MMO I played, where the same arguments were had, and just as false in that regard.

 

Ultimately it's up to BioWare how they want to spend their resources designing content. I get some people would like them to spend time making sure old stuff is still relevant at new caps, I just happen to not be one of those people. At least, not when it comes to redoing the fights themselves at different level ranges. Just putting newer comms on them is sufficient to me and seems like a minimal amount of effort. I'd much rather see quicker newer raids than slower ones because they need to bump up old stuff.

Edited August 9, 2013 by hadoken

[ZionHalcyon]

Ultimately it's up to BioWare how they want to spend their resources designing content. I get some people would like them to spend time making sure old stuff is still relevant at new caps, I just happen to not be one of those people. At least, not when it comes to redoing the fights themselves at different level ranges. Just putting newer comms on them is sufficient to me and seems like a minimal amount of effort. I'd much rather see quicker newer raids than slower ones because they need to bump up old stuff.

 

My point is that it doesnt have to be either/or. they still can endeavor to strike a balance and do both over a developmental cycle.