Rage Tree Rebalance

[Andrew_Past]

This is an idea that I have put a lot of thought into. My Guardian is my main, and I don't want to see one of its specs get nerfed into the ground like PTs did. As it mainly affects PVP and also affects other classes, I am posting this in other forums as well. So, here's a quote from a thread I made on the Guardian forums (sorry for not converting to Warrior terms):

 

Well, here it is, my suggestion to fairly rebalance the Focus tree. To start, let's discuss why it is a problem. In terms of single target damage, the Guardian Focus tree is performing very similar to other specs in the game. It is not the highest single target DPS, but it does better than most. However, the problem lies in the extremely high AOE damage potential. This affects PVP balance greatly.

 

The Problem:

 

The damage potential of an average Force Sweep is about 8k x 5. That is a 40k damage potential in a single global. No other single ability has anywhere close to that damage potential, let alone an instant ability. Additionally, Force Sweep is on a relatively short cool down of roughly 9 seconds (with good uptime.) This gives the Focus tree an an insanely high damage potential in PVP. It's true that the majority of the time, Force Sweep will not hit 5 enemies at once. However, it isn't very difficult in PVP to regularly hit 2-3 people at a time on average, even against teams that know to watch for a Force Sweep.

 

The AOE damage isn't all of what the Focus spec has going for it. Focus also has a great amount of group utility, mobility, and an easy to use and coordinate, high damage auto-crit. A Focus Guardian can leap in, Force Sweep a large group, use Awe to AOE mez them, focus on a single target with their team, Freezing Force to AOE snare and taunt as the group is about to lose the effect of the mez, and then Force Sweep again one or two globals later. Focus Sentinels can do the same thing minus the taunt and AOE snare. Even outside of this scenario, Focus players have a plethora of snares, roots, and CCs in addition to the highest AOE damage output in the game.

 

So, to put it simply, Focus players have the issues of disproportionately higher damage output coupled with high amounts of utility, high amounts of mobility, easy to coordinate auto-crit, and in a Sentinel's case, high amounts of survivability. Now, I'm fine with utility, and coordinated single target damage, and mobility, as they can add skill to a team when used with coordination. What I'm not okay with is having all of that and extremely high AOE damage on a short cool down.

 

The Solution:

So, how can we fix this problem? Well, we need to set a few parameters for the solution before proceeding. For the rebalance to be successful it needs to do the following:

• AOE damage needs to be reduced
  
• Single target damage needs to be unaffected
  
• Overall game play and style needs to be unaffected
  
• It still needs to fill the role of an AOE pressure spec
  

All of this can be done be done by changing how Singularity works. Currently, it doubles the damage of Force Sweep with 3 stacks of Singularity. I propose that Force Leap and Zealous Leap place a debuff on a target that makes it so only the target with that debuff is affected by Singularity. Only one debuff can be on a target at a time (so someone can't Force Leap to one and Zealous Leap to someone else for another debuff.) With this change, a normal 8k Force Sweep will still do 8k to the debuffed target, but only 4k to other targets. If this is too harsh of a change, Singularity could retain a 25% damage to non-debuffed targets for 5k AOE hits.

 

With this solution, Focus would be relatively the same in PVE. AOE damage would be reduced significantly, but would still be high enough to discourage people from standing close together and would still punish tanks who still stand close to guard targets. Also, the overall game play would remain intact. And Focus players' damage output would be brought more in line with other specs in the game.

[UncleOst]

Edit:

 

My response removed and placed on the Jug/Guard forums.

Edited August 4, 2013 by UncleOst

[Andrew_Past]

Because this is coming up in the other threads:

 

On Stalemates:

Yes, high healing output is causing a higher occurrence of stalemates. Yes, the Focus tree is used to pressure healers more than other DPS specs. However, that does not mean it is okay. Just because one aspect of a game is over tuned or over powered does not make it right to leave something else over tuned or over powered. There is no denying that the Focus tree puts up higher numbers in PVP than any other DPS spec, and usually by a good margin. Given everything that Focus players have, this does not make for a balanced spec.

 

What should happen is that both high healing output and Focus both get rebalanced. And if Focus is to be rebalanced, I want it to be done right.

[znihilist]

(I am going to be quoting myself here, but here it goes)

No and simply no. Heavy, un-mitigated AOE damage in very much needed in PvP for reasons beyond pressuring healers. If the AOE damage is modified (in the way you suggest), you will run into serious balance issues, ranging from ranged vs melee to the stacking strategy which will have no counter unless a serious nerf to ranged classes are made.

So what are you are proposing in a way is the doorway to re-balance (nerf ?) every dps class in this game (specially ranged one). IF and that's a big if, focus/rage needs something checked, it might need a check on its ulitlity and single target dps. Anything else and you will be sending us to class re-balance hell.

[Eudidimuss]

So let me get this strait, you wanna make smash more like carnage, minus the RNG? *I would say no, and to stop trying to "fix" something that isn't broke.*

 

For arguments sake we are going to take this one and apply to the sniper orbital strike. *You have 8 players in a WZ, and by some miracle you managed to get off all four ticks. At 6k x 8= that's 48k per tick. And multiply that by 4 you get *192k (potential dmg) for one ability. So by your argument orbital strike is grossly op and should not belong in the game.*

 

Also the push to make smash more single target is kind of absurd, given that both warrior AC's have a single target spec carnage and vengeance. And might I add they both do pretty well, if played and geared correctly.*

 

And the point that was brought up about 2 or 3 smashers working as a team. You can basically do that with any AC. You can have multiple agents running in lethality, or multiple marauder's in carnage.*

 

Now if you were really concerned about "balance". I would suggest reverting the smash ability to the way it worked in the past by removing the insta cast. *As in "if" you were quick enough you could *counter it by either a KB, stun, or in the sin's case shroud.*