Tanks for the fun!

[Reynaga]

The other night I queued up for a random and got into a hammer station, just as we rounded the third corner with the two golds and 3 silvers the other dps that was with me CCd one of the golds and we proceeded to fight. Tank (who remains nameless because he isn't really important) ran in and aggroed everything and then broke the CC. When the fight was done he complained to his healer that he needed more heals, even though they were doing their best and that particular pull usually kills people who mess around. The dps that CCd told the tank that it would also help to not break CC. The tank got angry and told the dps that there was no CC because no one marked CC. The other dps told the tank that they shouldn't have to mark the CC, which I agree, it isn't hard to see who is CCd.

 

To make a long story short, I know TOO late, the tank got upset and proceeded to tell us how much we needed him but he didn't need us, then he quit the group. Right after the healer left presumably to go to bed, which I can't blame them it was late at night. So the dps and I looked at each other and said ok lets kill a couple bosses, we then went and cleared the first two bosses. Here are some screen shots of it.

 

First Boss

Second Boss

 

The lesson I am trying to convey here is that just because you are a tank, doesn't mean you should be egotistical, narcissistic, or rude when talking to people, because they will eventually learn how to get along without you.

 

 

P.S. I just spoke to that "tank" and he told me that of course we beat those bosses, with hax. He made me smile.

[TheFXedits]

i hate people who breaks my cc in FP's or HM's

[ZooMzy]

The other night I queued up for a random and got into a hammer station, just as we rounded the third corner with the two golds and 3 silvers the other dps that was with me CCd one of the golds and we proceeded to fight. Tank (who remains nameless because he isn't really important) ran in and aggroed everything and then broke the CC. When the fight was done he complained to his healer that he needed more heals, even though they were doing their best and that particular pull usually kills people who mess around. The dps that CCd told the tank that it would also help to not break CC. The tank got angry and told the dps that there was no CC because no one marked CC. The other dps told the tank that they shouldn't have to mark the CC, which I agree, it isn't hard to see who is CCd.

 

With the guild I run raids with, we have a motto when it comes to trash:

 

"CCs are for p******"

 

This motto originally came to be after a couple of the raid members were arguing about which target to CC, and in response, one of our "outspoken" DPS decided to toss that phrase out and pull a couple of mobs together by himself for us to fight, effectively Leeroy Jenkinsing the team's plan.

 

Our second motto for the guild, came to be from this type of pulling:

 

"One shot bosses, wipe on trash."

 

and sometimes, we will actually blame our failure to down a boss on the fact that we haven't wiped on trash in the instance yet.

 

As for pugs, you have more patience than I do to run with pugs in HM FPs xD

Edited July 31, 2013 by ZooMzy

[bsbrad]

SparkleTank you must have very patient healers in your guild. When doing HM Operations the one thing that annoys me the most is when DPS and/or tanks go Leeroy on a group. I have been known to not heal people for this.

 

Obviously depending on the situation (most groups can be killed with just a tank and a healer) but the groups between the 1st and 2nd bosses on HM TfB are a pain if the DPS are in la la land. The typical DPS mentality is that we did this content before so now I will try to do the content with no defensive CDs or self heals. Hell we have a lot of sorcs in our guild who make it their aim to pull the rest of their guild to their deaths.....funny the first time, 10x later gets annoying.

 

Back on topic, I agree it is not necessary to mark your CCs but maybe a msg to the tank like CCing left side would be nice. Too many DPSers CC and start the pull and wonder why they have lost half their health in 2s, hmmm maybe the tank should pull. If you timed your CC after the tank pull then the tank should be aware not to break it. I have noticed there are more and more jugs not being careful with their smash and expecting the healers to handle the fights.

 

Recently I had a tank who refused to taunt and had to rely on a DPS w/ taunts to keep the mobs of me. I can pull 3k HPS without an issue and if the tank isn't taunting I will pull off them.

Edited July 31, 2013 by bsbrad

[ZooMzy]

SparkleTank you must have very patient healers in your guild. When doing HM Operations the one thing that annoys me the most is when DPS and/or tanks go Leeroy on a group. I have been known to not heal people for this.

 

Obviously depending on the situation (most groups can be killed with just a tank and a healer) but the groups between the 1st and 2nd bosses on HM TfB are a pain if the DPS are in la la land. The typical DPS mentality is that we did this content before so now I will try to do the content with no defensive CDs or self heals. Hell we have a lot of sorcs in our guild who make it their aim to pull the rest of their guild to their deaths.....funny the first time, 10x later gets annoying.

 

Back on topic, I agree it is not necessary to mark your CCs but maybe a msg to the tank like CCing left side would be nice. Too many DPSers CC and start the pull and wonder why they have lost half their health in 2s, hmmm maybe the tank should pull. If you timed your CC after the tank pull then the tank should be aware not to break it. I have noticed there are more and more jugs not being careful with their smash and expecting the healers to handle the fights.

 

Recently I had a tank who refused to taunt and had to rely on a DPS w/ taunts to keep the mobs of me. I can pull 3k HPS without an issue and if the tank isn't taunting I will pull off them.

 

It's mostly a system that people in our raid guild have come to accept as a fun little way of making the operation interesting, as it can get dull very fast if you're just going in there for a smooth and completely planned out run of mechanics and etc. For the hard content like HM TFB and when they run actual progression type operations, it's a little more strict in terms of pulling and the people who usually do it, don't tend to do it unless they have at least a slight idea of what to expect. It has gotten more to a point in our guild that the method of pulling is done only if the puller understands that the group at least has the chance of clearing it, even if some people will probably die from it in the end. Builds character, teaches people to be ready to improvise if the normal plan fails, which is why more people in the raid group will pull Leeroys with trash more than anything. However, if we do have a pull that needs CC (which a lot of things don't really need one even in the HM content of operations), then we have another motto for that:

 

"You break it, you tank it"

 

Concerning your DPS' mentality, I would say that alone is a better mindset then some DPS I know. Pretty much every DPS I see in operations tend to have a one track, tunnel vision like mentality where they can hardly get pulled out of their burning rotation to throw in a CD/agro dump when they take agro, usually leading to the DPS dying within a matter of seconds if they get focused. Sure, it's fair to expect the tanks to hold agro half of the time or even the healers being able to focus and keep DPS alive for more than a second. However, I feel that if you want to be classified as a really good DPS, you have to be able to avoid tunnel vision as easily as healers and tanks alike.

 

As for our patient healers, they sometimes protest if they don't treat the pulls as challenges some days, and sometimes it gets interesting when the people that pull are stuck fighting against the mobs without a healer. Which again, circles back to the notion that it keeps the raid interesting and unexpected, along with training players how to manage their own survival methods when the plan doesn't stick. Hell, our progression group cleared HM Kephess the first time back in the good old days when it was the hardest op simply from the coordination of DPS taunting and dying after taking the Breath of the Masters hit when one of our tanks went down at the start of that final phase lol.

[Reynaga]

Back on topic, I agree it is not necessary to mark your CCs but maybe a msg to the tank like CCing left side would be nice. Too many DPSers CC and start the pull and wonder why they have lost half their health in 2s, hmmm maybe the tank should pull. If you timed your CC after the tank pull then the tank should be aware not to break it. I have noticed there are more and more jugs not being careful with their smash and expecting the healers to handle the fights.

 

See and I would agree with you there, but the tank was being REALLY timid, after waiting a bit for the tank to move the dps started casting and interrupting their CC, they did this a good 9-11 times then decided to go ahead, I can only assume because they thought the tank was waiting on the CC.

 

Also I would like to pose a question. Does your tank guard? If so is it a healer or dps that they guard? Most times I pug the tank never guards anyone or they guard the healer, then wonder why it is so hard to hold agro.

[bsbrad]

Also I would like to pose a question. Does your tank guard? If so is it a healer or dps that they guard? Most times I pug the tank never guards anyone or they guard the healer, then wonder why it is so hard to hold agro.

 

For Operations the tanks 99% of the time will guard the highest DPSers, with the exception of a couple of pulls, i.e. double datacore room on the way to OP IX (with my AOE heal I have been known to hit 6k HPS, so I need the guard) and the 2nd phase of the Terror the healers should be guarded so they don't pull and get (s)creamed.

 

In Flashpoints (especially PUGs) the Tanks should be aware of who is pulling off them, when I tank with 3 people I don't know I will guard the healer for the first fight and see which DPS has the best rotation. If I know the people or am running with guildies I will guard the highest DPS to start, usually after a couple of secs a DPS will have to crit every hit to pull off me with my sin. The tanks must be aware to switch the guard (most tanks don't do this though), also they can taunt off themselves to boost their aggro. The better tanks know which skills will give them the most threat (not necessarily always the highest dmg skill, i.e. Force Slow for sins is an excellent threat builder)

 

A tank should never lose aggro after the first couple of seconds of a fight unless the boss you are fighting has an aggro dump. Good DPSers should know when to use their aggro dump, i.e. if they have a string of crits and the quality of the tank is low.

Edited July 31, 2013 by bsbrad

[Aieranda]

 

The lesson I am trying to convey here is that just because you are a tank, doesn't mean you should be egotistical, narcissistic, or rude when talking to people, because they will eventually learn how to get along without you.

 

 

Funny, I could say the same thing about many healers or DPS. Let's not try to pin poor behavior on tanks because you've had some bad tanks recently. Your anecdotal evidence of personal experience is woefully insufficient to declare to tanks that they should watch out not to step on the toes of others or play nicer.

 

I've got just as many fun stories about all the roles.

[gocard]

The lesson I am trying to convey here is that just because you are a tank, doesn't mean you should be egotistical, narcissistic, or rude when talking to people, because they will eventually learn how to get along without you.

 

Yes we should, and no you won't.

 

Also, what's Hammer Station? I haven't heard of that warzone. Or is that slang for mid?

Edited August 3, 2013 by gocard

[hugofer]

Yes we should, and no you won't.

 

Also, what's Hammer Station? I haven't heard of that warzone. Or is that slang for mid?

 

I always tough hamer station was a ultra secret gear

[Reynaga]

Please don't cry because this post may have hit a nerve, I'm not saying all tanks are like that, far from it. What I did say is that tanks don't have to be *****s (speaking to tanks that are *****s) and if this makes you upset then perhaps you are one of those *****s.

[BlueyedJedi]

The other night I queued up for a random and got into a hammer station, just as we rounded the third corner with the two golds and 3 silvers the other dps that was with me CCd one of the golds and we proceeded to fight. Tank (who remains nameless because he isn't really important) ran in and aggroed everything and then broke the CC. When the fight was done he complained to his healer that he needed more heals, even though they were doing their best and that particular pull usually kills people who mess around. The dps that CCd told the tank that it would also help to not break CC. The tank got angry and told the dps that there was no CC because no one marked CC. The other dps told the tank that they shouldn't have to mark the CC, which I agree, it isn't hard to see who is CCd.

 

To make a long story short, I know TOO late, the tank got upset and proceeded to tell us how much we needed him but he didn't need us, then he quit the group. Right after the healer left presumably to go to bed, which I can't blame them it was late at night. So the dps and I looked at each other and said ok lets kill a couple bosses, we then went and cleared the first two bosses. Here are some screen shots of it.

 

First Boss

Second Boss

 

The lesson I am trying to convey here is that just because you are a tank, doesn't mean you should be egotistical, narcissistic, or rude when talking to people, because they will eventually learn how to get along without you.

 

 

P.S. I just spoke to that "tank" and he told me that of course we beat those bosses, with hax. He made me smile.

 

How did you get those countdown timers on your toolbar? I like that