How are Commando/Merc Healers These Days?

[BrianAl]

Hi,

 

How are Commando/Merc healers these days? I'm considering creating one, and want to make sure that they're performing well in level 55 FPs/Ops before investing the time. I'd also enjoy being able to solo Heroics.

 

I have a 55 Sage Seer in level 61 gear, and a 52 Scoundrel Sawbones. It seems as though my Sawbones is the stronger healer between the two, both single and multi-target, although it's hard to compare because of the big gear differences between the two characters.

 

I welcome any/all responses. I'd especially like to to hear from people who have experience with 2 or even 3 of the healers, and can make cross-healer comparisons.

[Gnimish]

Well we are better than we were 2.0. But so are other 2. The gapdidnt really close. I have still got denied raid spots for just being a commando. Now before anyone jumps me im not saying commando/mercs are terrible or unviable there are some outstanding commando healers. But in general they are lagging behind other 2.

[npullan]

Hi,

 

I'd especially like to to hear from people who have experience with 2 or even 3 of the healers, and can make cross-healer comparisons.

 

Commandos still have all the strengths and weaknesses they had before. They are excellent at single target heals with very short cast times, and some big instant heals. They will struggle to heal a group through burst damage phases because their only AoE heal is Kolto Bomb and the Kolto Pods it leaves behind.

 

I have a 55 Seer Sage and a 55 Combat Medic and I can say that Commando healing is more demanding. You have no HoTs (Kolto Pods SO doesn't count) so you have to react to all damage. Compare that to my Sage's ability to throw Rejuvenate, Force Armour, and Salvation. The Sage has so much passive healing I can go take a bio mid-fight (exaggeration).

 

I love my Commando but there are nights I don't have the awareness to heal with him so I bust out my Sage. He's way more forgiving of sloppy play.

[Snarkasms]

Scoundrels are stronger single target vs sages (bigger juice on their big cast, with a shorter cast time), but above flashpoints, sages have debatably the best AOE heals in the game. Some scoundrels are able to keep up with it now since their energy management is so buffed they can keep an entire ops group on 2 stacks of slow-release medpack, but that's typically mostly overheal, and their AOE (while it has some other perks) does only hit 4.

 

All the heal classes are different and complementary. Commandos are big single-target tank healers, but also have some unique ops-wide damage reduction abilities (the shield from combo kolto bomb and the 30-stack ability I can't remember now) that can make them a nice addition. I don't think you'll find anybody that would bring two commandos to an operation, though, and if the choice is between a scoundrel and a commando, most would take the scoundrel, unfortunately. Most of this is still related to pre-existing discrimination, though; good commandos can compete with any other heal class, there's just too much inertia for scoundrels and sages in their way.

[conkav]

I have played all healers up to 55 since 2.0 commando/merc healing has improved I find the the best for single target but the worst at aoe with only 2 aoe heals kolto missile and the the upgrade in healing tree for concussion charge/jet boost to turn it into a aoe heal. but it is still quite viable for aoe and imo it is the most fun healing class to play as

[KeyboardNinja]

Given a choice between a good commando and a good scoundrel, I'd almost certainly take the commando unless the other healer is also a commando. I love having the strong single-target heals, and scoundrels are definitely behind commandos in that respect. I don't like doubling up on any heal class though, and doubled commandos are really, really bad. Not as bad as doubled sages, but still awful. Commando/Scoundrel is an unbelievably strong healing combination. Commando/Sage is also pretty great.

 

All of the healers have unique strengths and weaknesses, and I think they are presently very, very well balanced for PvE (PvP is another story). It's basically to the point where I would take the player rather than the class, which is a good place to be.

Edited July 31, 2013 by KeyboardNinja

[Targarion]

Hi,

 

How are Commando/Merc healers these days? I'm considering creating one, and want to make sure that they're performing well in level 55 FPs/Ops before investing the time. I'd also enjoy being able to solo Heroics.

 

I have a 55 Sage Seer in level 61 gear, and a 52 Scoundrel Sawbones. It seems as though my Sawbones is the stronger healer between the two, both single and multi-target, although it's hard to compare because of the big gear differences between the two characters.

 

I welcome any/all responses. I'd especially like to to hear from people who have experience with 2 or even 3 of the healers, and can make cross-healer comparisons.

 

I've played a Commando healer since the early days and here are my thoughts.

 

Commando healers have been given the reputation for being the worse healer class in the game. In part before patch 2.0 it was because we lacked a sustained AOE. Since Patch 2.0 BW has made a major improvement in this area so we closed the gap significantly against the other two classes.

 

Still a Commando is not a forgiving healer. If you don't know how to utilize your abilities well, you might struggle to keep pace with the scoundrel and sage.

 

Here's why. Sages and scoundrels instantly cast healz with sustained hots. Scoundrels in particular can instant cast their heal in the middle of the group with the best ease.

 

Commando's have Kolto bomb which can be a little clunky to use. Hence the best skill to learn is when to use Kolto Bomb.

 

First off put points in Arsenal to get 20% bonus healing with your Kolto bomb. Make sure you also have points in Kolto wave. These two abilities will stack up to match the AOE of scoundrels and sages with less energy cost to your ammo.

 

Here is how you should approach a healing situation in PVP.

 

Don't remain stationary for more than 3 seconds. One of the big mistakes new commando healers do is plant themselves in one spot because some person told them they can't kite. NOT TRUE. You can kite. You simply have to condition yourself to use Kolto Bomb, Kolto wave and bacta infusion when off cool down.

 

Keep your feet moving as much as possible. Also keep yourself no further than 10 meters from the fray. To use kolto wave and kolto bomb works best if you are right in the middle of fights.

 

Your concussion charge will momentarily slow all enemies making them an easier target for Melees.

 

Most importantly your heals will receive a 10 percent bonus heal for all friendly targets affected by Kolto residue. So use your Kolto bomb every time it's off cool down.

 

When you run into a group of friendlies immediately hit Concussion charge or Kolto bomb.

[Akkantho]

commando - ~ 2200 hps

scoundrel - ~ 3150 hps

in PvP

Edited August 23, 2013 by Akkantho

[KevMeup]

My favorite healer is Op. I've had fun healing on my commando and I can dish out killer heals on my sorc or sage..

 

For PVP, merc heals are more a labor of love, I've never seen them dish out the same healing as the other 2 classes in a WZ, but they can still be very effective, especially with a good tank. For PVE, they are not as forgiving as other classes, but a skilled player can more than hold their own in Ops. It takes me a bit to warm up, but I do have a lot of fun healing on my commando in ops.

 

I'd put Op and Sorc as even on heals, even though I'm very bias for op healing

[DeludedProphet]

Check the TORparse numbers.

 

Do Commandos have high enough potential to clear all content? The very best ones do.

 

Are they on a par with the other two healing classes? Not by a country mile.

 

All you can really do is cross your fingers and hope the Devs do something about it during the next round of rebalances. Past history suggests that it's not worth holding your breath for though.

[KeyboardNinja]

Are they on a par with the other two healing classes? Not by a country mile.

 

Are you seriously judging healers by their HPS? More importantly, you're judging them by their HPS with a raid group, strat and execution that you haven't seen and a cohealer you've never met?!

 

HPS is far too situational to be used as a metric in that sense. I can tell you right now that my commando is capable of putting up nearly the same HPS numbers as our guild's scoundrel healer (and has). Do I do so on every fight? Only if the tanks are exploding, the DPS are standing in circles and my cohealer is OOM. The best healers are lazy, and commandos are the laziest healing class of them all. The very best commando healer I ever knew topped out at a 1400 HPS on HM Dread Guard pre-2.0, even when healing with a very weak cohealer. No one died, and no one ever felt even close to dying. His effective healing was almost 98%. That same healer was able to turn around and solo heal the Trenchcutter phase of Nightmare Kephess (still pre-2.0).

 

Healing is all about situational burst. Commandos do this better than anyone. Timing their burst may reduce their overall HPS, but it's the difference between a tank who got bursted down and a tank who is sitting pretty at full health after a close call. Scoundrels can do this, but not as well (Underworld Medicine has a very long cast time and can't be used back-to-back); Sages aren't even on the same level when it comes to single-target burst.

 

Also remember that commandos give a 5% healing received buff (which is noticeable) and a periodic 5% damage redux (which is also noticeable), which needs to be figured into their net HPS. Neither PvP nor PvE metrics correctly consider these factors, which is a large part of why commandos always seem to be behind in the HPS numbers.

 

In short, you're judging healers by some very shallow metrics. Is HPS useful? Yes, but only if you know the group, know the strat, and were either physically present in the run or have videos to study. In my experience, Nightmare content doesn't feel any harder with a Commando healer of equal skill vs a Scoundrel healer (or a Sage). That speaks balance to me.

Edited September 5, 2013 by KeyboardNinja

[Orderken]

Check the TORparse numbers.

 

Do Commandos have high enough potential to clear all content? The very best ones do.

 

Are they on a par with the other two healing classes? Not by a country mile.

 

All you can really do is cross your fingers and hope the Devs do something about it during the next round of rebalances. Past history suggests that it's not worth holding your breath for though.

 

You don't understand TORParse numbers. Though it's not as face-roll to have a top parse with a Mercenary|Commando healer as it is with a Sorcerer|Sage or Operative|Scoundrel healer, this class doesn't need rebalancing for Operations.

 

You don't understand how effective healers work as a team in Operations. The typical role of a Mercenary|Commando healer isn't as likely to produce a top parse as his teammate's, but that doesn't diminish the class or his role. Healing is largely about helping others shine, and only Mercenary|Commando healers also help other healers shine, too.

 

Like any healing class that is played well, the Mercenary|Commando healer is valuable for end-game Operations. In end-game Operations, though I see a minor issue with how stealth (out-of-combat) rezzes can occasionally lead to too many rezzes, and I might be persuaded that Sorcerer|Sage or Operative|Scoundrel healers could be fine-tuned to require greater care in force or energy management more often, all three healing classes are effective and complementary, and that's a great thing to be able to say.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Orderken

[Darth_Dreselus]

I run a Sage and would not trade my Commando co-healer for anything. This may do more with his skill though and my bad experience with Scoundrels. While you definitely want at least one Sage (or maybe 2 in 16s) there isn't a huge reason to take Scoundrel over Commando unless you want that safety net of rezzes. Scoundrel may do more healing by itself but a Commando improves the other healer, has an amazing ST burst and if you communicate well Sage and Commando complement each other a little better that Scoundrels as Scoundrels are generally 'alone' in healing with little synergy to anybody else. Which is also a reason that doubling up is not recommended but if you have to 2 Scoundrels are the best way to go.

 

If you are being denied spots on raids purely because of class an not personal skill, find another guild or raid leader.

 

And yes HPS is a mad thing to look at. During progression on DG I was running 3000/2000 HPS/EHPS split and now when it's on farm status I get something like 2000/1600 just because everybody got used to the fight more and damage is dealt with more efficiently. And even though that's less HPS the healing is actually easier.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Darth_Dreselus

[HumblePrisoner]

Something I thought about as I have been reading these posts is that only one or two have mentioned probably the greatest aspect of a healing class, role knowledge and experience. I admit that I haven't gotten my commando up to 55 yet, but playing as a healing class in other mmo's, I was always amazed at how easily a wipe could occur, even with the "best" healing class in game. I'm looking forward to seeing just how well mine does in the end game op's and even some WZ's.

[cs_zoltan]

Are you seriously judging healers by their HPS? More importantly, you're judging them by their HPS with a raid group, strat and execution that you haven't seen and a cohealer you've never met?!

 

HPS is far too situational to be used as a metric in that sense. I can tell you right now that my commando is capable of putting up nearly the same HPS numbers as our guild's scoundrel healer (and has). Do I do so on every fight? Only if the tanks are exploding, the DPS are standing in circles and my cohealer is OOM. The best healers are lazy, and commandos are the laziest healing class of them all. The very best commando healer I ever knew topped out at a 1400 HPS on HM Dread Guard pre-2.0, even when healing with a very weak cohealer. No one died, and no one ever felt even close to dying. His effective healing was almost 98%. That same healer was able to turn around and solo heal the Trenchcutter phase of Nightmare Kephess (still pre-2.0).

 

Healing is all about situational burst. Commandos do this better than anyone. Timing their burst may reduce their overall HPS, but it's the difference between a tank who got bursted down and a tank who is sitting pretty at full health after a close call. Scoundrels can do this, but not as well (Underworld Medicine has a very long cast time and can't be used back-to-back); Sages aren't even on the same level when it comes to single-target burst.

 

Also remember that commandos give a 5% healing received buff (which is noticeable) and a periodic 5% damage redux (which is also noticeable), which needs to be figured into their net HPS. Neither PvP nor PvE metrics correctly consider these factors, which is a large part of why commandos always seem to be behind in the HPS numbers.

 

In short, you're judging healers by some very shallow metrics. Is HPS useful? Yes, but only if you know the group, know the strat, and were either physically present in the run or have videos to study. In my experience, Nightmare content doesn't feel any harder with a Commando healer of equal skill vs a Scoundrel healer (or a Sage). That speaks balance to me.

 

While all the things you've said is true (except the 5% healing buff which is only 3%) the fact that on Torparse from over 150 or so parses there are like 5 Merc healers should suggest that they behind the other 2 healer. I'm not saying by far or that they aren't viable for nim content or anything, but they aren't that good as sorcs and certainly not as good as operatives (but they are overpowered so that doesn'T count). And i blame the crit nerf for that, if they buff crit Mercs will be way better.

 

Also the fact that Merc has the worst resource management doesn't make them any more desirable, if your vent heat is on cd the only thing you can do is not to heal and spam Rapid Shots.

[KeyboardNinja]

Also the fact that Merc has the worst resource management doesn't make them any more desirable, if your vent heat is on cd the only thing you can do is not to heal and spam Rapid Shots.

 

Some of us prefer not to overheat in the first place. :-)

Edited September 9, 2013 by KeyboardNinja

[cs_zoltan]

Some of us prefer not to overheat in the first place. :-)

 

Did you heal TFB Nim Operator on your Merc/Mando with tank/healer channeling tactic and fortitude augmented sin tank? I guessed not...

[KeyboardNinja]

Did you heal TFB Nim Operator on your Merc/Mando with tank/healer channeling tactic and fortitude augmented sin tank? I guessed not...

 

Don't run paper tanks. Also, make sure your DPS in the middle is able to get the first Regulator down to ~20% before the second one spawns. Problem solved.

 

My guild does use the tank/healer channeling tactic. My main is a tank though, and our second nightmare group hasn't gotten to Op IX yet (also, I often have to DPS in the second group, so I'm not even sure I'll get a chance to heal it even when we do get there). We also have enough DPS that we can put one in the middle on yellow, which helps the healing a lot going in to the second phase.

 

Running out of energy is worse than suspending your healing for a moment unless you know you have time to recover it. I've healed some viciously tight things (including Dread Guard with a group that was epically failing on Lightning Field positioning). If you're overheating, you're doing it wrong. I'm not saying it's *easy* to manage heat. There's no question that it's the hardest energy mechanic of the three healers by far. What I'm saying is that a large part of what makes a good healer is not getting into this situation, regardless of what the damage looks like.

[haksilence]

Did you heal TFB Nim Operator on your Merc/Mando with tank/healer channeling tactic and fortitude augmented sin tank? I guessed not...

 

 

LOL!!! Endurance stacking shadow, you must love torture being in a raid team with one of those.

 

By stacking endurance as a shadow your surrendering the ONLY thing you have going for you.... mitigation.

By stacking endurance your subjugating yourself to the hardest spikes and the worst mitigation.

 

Tell your tank to learn.his class or your going to have a terrible time healing him.

[Darth_Dreselus]

I like that Operator IX is being used to compare healers, the fight has 2 burst healing phases and a bit of positional issues with outlying DPS (who can be left alone for a long time as the dot is predictable). The rest of the fight is an absolute healing snooze fest.

[Terentheren]

I have one of each healing class...combat medic, sawbones, seer. Seer to me has the most utility, and the best damage mitigation of the three. It's the one I consider my main now. It just feels more comfortable to heal as a seer...or as a sawbones for that matter... than as a combat medic. I tried very hard to like combat medic healing. In the end, it just bothered me how incomplete the class seemed, to the point where I would tend to dwell on the negatives more than appreciate the positives.

 

Combat medics are great at what they do, and just a few tweaks are needed to get them up to the same level as sawbones and seer. Hope that happens soon.

[KeyboardNinja]

I like that Operator IX is being used to compare healers, the fight has 2 burst healing phases and a bit of positional issues with outlying DPS (who can be left alone for a long time as the dot is predictable). The rest of the fight is an absolute healing snooze fest.

 

Well, you still have some burst healing to do in the second phase. If you have two healers who are…awake, it's not that crazy. Both of my guild's main healers have solo healed the majority of the second phase in Nightmare mode due to death on the agro dump without an available battle rez (late taunt is late). The healing in Orange and Yellow is legitimately difficult (especially right at transitions to the next phases), but beyond that, not so much. We put our gunslingers in the middle on those phases and have the tanks stand inside the shields. Makes it dramatically easier.

[Darth_Dreselus]

Well, you still have some burst healing to do in the second phase. If you have two healers who are…awake, it's not that crazy. Both of my guild's main healers have solo healed the majority of the second phase in Nightmare mode due to death on the agro dump without an available battle rez (late taunt is late). The healing in Orange and Yellow is legitimately difficult (especially right at transitions to the next phases), but beyond that, not so much. We put our gunslingers in the middle on those phases and have the tanks stand inside the shields. Makes it dramatically easier.

 

I do suppose it depends on strat I run:

 

Button-Mid

DPS-DPS

Tank-DPS

DPS-Heal

Tank-Heal (DPS from Purple kills one Reg and gets on core)

 

That way 2 healers are always free and can burst Orange/Yellow phases like mad. Never saw an issue unless tank fail interrupt/first Reg is not down by the time the second is out.

 

DG/Keph on the other hand, whole different story, hardly any breathing room

[KeyboardNinja]

That way 2 healers are always free and can burst Orange/Yellow phases like mad. Never saw an issue unless tank fail interrupt/first Reg is not down by the time the second is out.

 

We actually run:

 

Button - Mid

Tank - DPS

Heal - DPS

Tank - DPS

Heal - DPS

 

Having a DPS in mid on Purple gives us someone to clean up the second Regulator as well as keep the little adds in check going into Yellow. We don't really need two tanks for Blue or Purple, so may as well shuffle them off there. We have enough DPS to do Yellow with just 3 DPS on the cores, so we can repeat the Orange strategy of having someone in mid to kill one of the Regulators. We thought about doing DPS - DPS on Blue and Tank - Heal on Yellow, but solo tanking two Regulators is a major problem when you only have one healer, and those Regulators remain both alive going into the transition, which makes the healing a lot harder.

 

It's worth noting that the End of Line cast really doesn't hit that hard. The real problem is the big melee attack, which you can't interrupt. Keeping End of Line interrupted though keeps active mitigation and CDs available, so I generally try to do it anyway.

 

DG/Keph on the other hand, whole different story, hardly any breathing room

 

No kidding… DG is ok as long as everyone is executing correctly (not taking unnecessary damage) and you can beat the third surging chain. Having tanks who are proactive about their CDs helps a lot too. One mistake though and you're done. And Kephess… Tanking him is hell for a shadow. I feel so sorry for my healers. :-)

Edited September 19, 2013 by KeyboardNinja

[Darth_Dreselus]

Doesn't End of Line apply the heal debuff though? I have noticed it being an issue when 2 are up as they seem to stack (2k Deliverance FTW). That's why we make sure that 2 are never tanked (i.e. first one dies before second comes out, through a DPS and healers off-DPSing).

 

TBH I would probably refuse to do a run with healers channeling, it seems too much of an unnecessary complication =D.

 

Regardless of start it is execution fight, not really gear check fight. Which is a good thing, but the nights where there are 5 wipes on HM are unbelievable.

 

I like how we are not discussion Mercs anymore =D

Edited September 19, 2013 by Darth_Dreselus