Sentinel vs Ranged (PvP)

[Lord_Garrex]

This one has been a bit frustrating for me. A very savvy ranged player can pick us apart while we do little to no damage. True story: in the only duel I've lost in this game, I fought against a ranged player. That player won by running away from me the whole time and taking long range "pot shots". If I force leaped, I was thrown back with damage done to me and basically had no way to close the gap. The duel was also against a fellow ops group member while we were waiting for a WB to spawn so I didn't have my Doc. Sentinels without a Doc are kind of like a gun with only one bullet: you better pray it's a kill shot or you'll be dead.

 

My conclusion (unless somebody has a good strategy they can share if this ever happens to me again): we need a force pull ability. We're melee attackers so our only chance is to, well, melee attack. Or...would a force pull ability then give us an unfair advantage because of our dps?

 

Thanks!

[GalnarDegana]

Use Throw Dual Sabers, then Force Leap in. After they knock you back, you need to use Force Camouflage to get in close. Then they have burned their knockback and you are in melee range. Hit Rebuke on the second attack too, because you shouldn't take much damage on the first Force Leap.

 

After that, it depends on your spec what you do. Remember to use roots and Force Stasis and Awe to keep them around. Also, with CC like Stasis and Awe, make sure the Sniper or Gunslinger isn't using Entrench/Hunker Down, which you can tell if it looks like this

 

http://thefanaticalswordsman.com/2011/12/25/pvp-strategy-gunslingers-dampers-defense/screenshot_2011-12-25_14_11_05_121020/

 

See the little shields on the top and sides of the normal cover? That is CC-immunity.

 

That is pretty much all of the tricks I want to give away to defeating my main class.

 

Good luck, and seriously, I will more specifically answer any questions you might have.

[Ramtar]

Two skill that should be used often: Pacify and Force Kick

[yourlordmoses]

Combat tree tags stuns onto master strike and crippling throw. I'm not familiar with watchman but the dot keeps damage on them if they get out of range for a second or 2. Point is if you know how to play a high lvl sentinel ranged opponents die. Sentinel isn't easy to play but boss when you get it right

[Lord_Garrex]

KBN's Bible discourages building either one of those skills into your skill tree. Why that is I'm sure has something to do with the points being better allocated elsewhere, theoretically at least. I just reset mine to mirror his recommended build and will give it a try.

 

EDIT: Most ranged players aren't that much different or more difficult to beat than the others but in the duel I described above, it was definitely annoying to have that player able to run away taking long distance pot shots on the fly and not be able to do anything about it. The force camo strategy works well though so thanks for that.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Lord_Garrex

[Lord_Garrex]

In fact, that guy recommends that you disable all of your immobilizing effect skills. Makes zero sense.

[Maelael]

KBN's Bible discourages building either one of those skills into your skill tree. Why that is I'm sure has something to do with the points being better allocated elsewhere, theoretically at least. I just reset mine to mirror his recommended build and will give it a try.

 

EDIT: Most ranged players aren't that much different or more difficult to beat than the others but in the duel I described above, it was definitely annoying to have that player able to run away taking long distance pot shots on the fly and not be able to anything about it. The force camo strategy works well though so thanks for that.

 

His bible is for PvE.

 

PvP you want:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bcZhGMRRrRrrIR.3

 

With the last point being debateable.

 

vs Ranged, the whole "Most players" you need to consider that most players are bad. Good players can kite you, out defensive you, and control you. Be the one in control.

 

Force Camo, and don't blow all your defenses right away, wait them out and use them vs the right skills. I got better at killing snipers by playing one - learn to use the field to your advantage to kill their LoS, and force them to move to hit you, rather than to avoid you. Have a counter planned for their defenses, and force them to use their defenses. IE - control the fight. Coercing them to white bar you and then stun breaking it is even better.

 

Also, use force kick and pacify more. I realize someone else said that, but more people need to be reminded. In many mirrors, I win purely based on actually knowing where the pacify skill is.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Maelael

[Lord_Garrex]

Thanks for the link. :thumbs: I found myself disagreeing with some of the stuff in KBN's guide because I'm a big fan of pacify and force kick too but his recommended skill tree actually short changes your pacify boost and eliminates all of your other bonus immobilizing skills. Edited July 25, 2013 by Lord_Garrex

[Lord_Garrex]

The PvP build looks much better. The only one I'll contend, or question a little, is not allocating any points to stagger. Keeping in mind what you said about most players not being very good in PvP, *most* of my rotations in both PvP and PvE start with Force Leap. I force leap in, then with the 1 second immobilizing effect I start with Precision Slash. What's the explanation for not spending those points there? Also: the link doesn't reference anything about PvP rotations. Where can I find information about that? Thanks again. I appreciate it.

[Maelael]

The PvP build looks much better. The only one I'll contend, or question a little, is not allocating any points to stagger. Keeping in mind what you said about most players not being very good in PvP, *most* of my rotations in both PvP and PvE start with Force Leap. I force leap in, then with the 1 second immobilizing effect I start with Precision Slash. What's the explanation for not spending those points there? Also: the link doesn't reference anything about PvP rotations. Where can I find information about that? Thanks again. I appreciate it.

 

The spare point usually goes into stagger or swelling winds, I usually go with stagger for what you stated. Issue is there is no where I'd take a spare point out for an extra amount of time for that, given its such a minor increase vs the benefits of other talents to dump points into.

 

It's a worthwhile skill for some stalling techniques and for setting yourself up, however there is no where else that you'd want to lose points from - those 45 are *needed*. I've tried goofy ideas like doing two points in Hand of Justice, one point in Saber Screen, etc - it's not worth the loss. Also, and this may be something *I* need to personally work on, I don't use leap that often in this spec, although I should in order to use the set bonus buff.

 

There is no real set rotation for PvP in this spec. There is combos (which should be obvious), and a lot of them mirror what you do in PvE. Mostly it is about proc'ing blade storm properly. Past that is just spamming attacks and hitting dispatch whenever its available, and setting up Master Strike on Precision window.

 

In PvP I rarely bother with Zen Master strike, keeping them rooted longer for others to deal with them isn't a bad thing unless you're trying to get them down a bit faster. But thats me, and it may be wrong.

 

But, the aspects of note of the spec, and why its great for huttball goes beyond movement speed buffs and being about to OOC heal your centering up. You can always slow people with dual saber throw, but in this spec you also importantly have:

 

Root with Crippling Throw

Movement CC break with Camo

More awe usage

Immobilization with Master Strike

 

Those can be key to some huttball wins, as you're able to deal with the carrier without white barring them easily, defend mid with more awes, and get back to mid faster breaking the movement debuffs with camo - and OOC heal your centering up quickly to Trans somewhere. Concept overall is you're able to cover more ground and stop others from covering ground while when the RNG gods smile upon you putting out some heavy single target damage.

 

I also can't remember the last time I used normal swing in this spec, as I always seem to have plenty of focus (Whereas in focus spec, at odd times max once per Wz, I may need it to build a tiny bit of focus). It's not as tanky as Focus, but it makes up for it in melee classes losing you easily while you strafe or move to another target.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Maelael

[eavn]

This one has been a bit frustrating for me. A very savvy ranged player can pick us apart while we do little to no damage. True story: in the only duel I've lost in this game, I fought against a ranged player. That player won by running away from me the whole time and taking long range "pot shots". If I force leaped, I was thrown back with damage done to me and basically had no way to close the gap. The duel was also against a fellow ops group member while we were waiting for a WB to spawn so I didn't have my Doc. Sentinels without a Doc are kind of like a gun with only one bullet: you better pray it's a kill shot or you'll be dead.

 

My conclusion (unless somebody has a good strategy they can share if this ever happens to me again): we need a force pull ability. We're melee attackers so our only chance is to, well, melee attack. Or...would a force pull ability then give us an unfair advantage because of our dps?

 

Thanks!

 

sentinels need force pull?

 

this seems more of a l2p issue then a legitimate class balance issue.

[Sappharan]

This one has been a bit frustrating for me. A very savvy ranged player can pick us apart while we do little to no damage. True story: in the only duel I've lost in this game, I fought against a ranged player. That player won by running away from me the whole time and taking long range "pot shots". If I force leaped, I was thrown back with damage done to me and basically had no way to close the gap. The duel was also against a fellow ops group member while we were waiting for a WB to spawn so I didn't have my Doc. Sentinels without a Doc are kind of like a gun with only one bullet: you better pray it's a kill shot or you'll be dead.

 

My conclusion (unless somebody has a good strategy they can share if this ever happens to me again): we need a force pull ability. We're melee attackers so our only chance is to, well, melee attack. Or...would a force pull ability then give us an unfair advantage because of our dps?

 

Thanks!

 

You typically duel with companions? I just don't consider that a duel.

[AngusFTW]

This one has been a bit frustrating for me. A very savvy ranged player can pick us apart while we do little to no damage. True story: in the only duel I've lost in this game, I fought against a ranged player. That player won by running away from me the whole time and taking long range "pot shots". If I force leaped, I was thrown back with damage done to me and basically had no way to close the gap. The duel was also against a fellow ops group member while we were waiting for a WB to spawn so I didn't have my Doc. Sentinels without a Doc are kind of like a gun with only one bullet: you better pray it's a kill shot or you'll be dead.

 

My conclusion (unless somebody has a good strategy they can share if this ever happens to me again): we need a force pull ability. We're melee attackers so our only chance is to, well, melee attack. Or...would a force pull ability then give us an unfair advantage because of our dps?

 

Thanks!

Dueling ranged players is all about anticipating the kb and saving your leap for them.

Also If you mess that up force camo would be an additional gap closer.

Good mandos can mess up that with a well timed net tho which is a royal pita for meelee

[Ramtar]

Combat tree tags stuns onto master strike and crippling throw. I'm not familiar with watchman but the dot keeps damage on them if they get out of range for a second or 2. Point is if you know how to play a high lvl sentinel ranged opponents die. Sentinel isn't easy to play but boss when you get it right

 

Master Strike and Crippling Throw root not stun in the Combat tree. Sentinel/Marauder are the only melee class without a 4 second hard stun.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Ramtar

[KeyboardNinja]

Reiterating what was said earlier…

 

My guide for Combat spec is focused on PvE. I would absolutely take the control abilities in PvP. I would probably give up Swelling Winds and I would *definitely* give up Insight, which gives you five points to play around with in terms of utilities.