I Want To Like TOR, But It Just Feels Old

[Thiussat]

One of the great conundrums of life: People complain when an MMO is too much like WoW, and those same people complain when an MMO is not a WoW clone. Sadly, no game company is EVER going to be able to satisfy former players of that cartoonish crap game. I wish those people would just go play WoW and leave the rest of us alone FFS!

 

You think this is limited to SWTOR? Wait until GW2 comes out and you will see the SAME stuff on their forums. I will guarantee it.

 

Someone above mentioned Rift. I came from Rift (2 PVP R8 toons that are maxed geared), and if that guy plays that game and reads their forums as much as I did, he would know that it''s the same stuff over there. Their forums are full of the same unhappy trolls: "Rift is a WoW clone" or "Rift is not enough like WoW." Trust me, SWTOR is better than Rift by a country mile. It''s not even close as far as story and questing and holding your interest is concerned. (PvP I can''t judge yet since I haven''t PVP''ed at all in SWTOR). There is a reason a lot of us had max PVP gear in Rift: it''s because the other content is a snore.

 

The "WoW" acronym should be banned from all other MMO forums. Most of us are sick of hearing about a 8 year old cartoon game whose glory days have long since expired.

 

Is SWTOR perfect? No. Like a lot of other people, there are UI changes I would like to see. But the story and immersion are better than any MMO I have played by a mile. I PvP a lot in other games, but haven''t done much of it here because I have been transformed into a carebear due to the awesome job BW has done with the PvE aspect of the game. Granted I haven''t reached max level or made it to any endgame content, but I suspect it to be just as interesting.

[freakuancy]

Really? You honestly think that this game, as polished as it is currently still needed a year of work? UI needs improvement for sure, but the majority of the OPs issues are trivial, petty, pathetic, or just plain not issues.

 

The original dev cycle called for another 9mo before open beta...

 

Not *I*, Bioware. But yes I think it lacks the polish most of their games have.

 

And guess what? You don''t have the right to trivialize other peoples opinions like that. What you consider trivial is important to many gamers, not just OP.

 

This game will be judged against its modern competition, in the end. Not how the competitive landscape looked 7 years ago. Other games have a more polished product at launch -right now-.

 

Yes, right now. As they launch. Again, see: Tera.

 

As I stated before I really enjoy this game and will keep playing it as they make improvements. But I fear the industry as a whole is going to have a lot of negative things to say. An already-mediocre metacritic score is pretty indicative of how this is going to fare in the review space, and like it or not a large majority of gamers live and breath by how a game is reviewed in terms of their informed buying practices.

[Nfinite]

This guy is gonna get flamed by the diehard wow haters, with generic this is not wow posts.

 

But

 

He has made excellent points, and for bioware the option of "go back to WoW" is not an option. The point is to make a game where people wont want to "go back to WoW", to capture the mmo market and gain that subscriber base that can fund an amazing MMO.

 

Most of the things hes listed are standard mmo features from years of innovations, to innovated questing the way bioware has but not incorporate its predcessors innovations is completly pig headed and retarded, and if anything kills SWTOR, it will be that pompus attitude of "well other people do it and thier playerbase loves it but we don't want to be like them".

 

Don't try and reinvent the wheel, or in this case you didnt try and reinvent anything, you just went back to the time before there was a wheel, you think WoW always had the LFG system? nope we all just looked for grps in chat and it was a pain in the butt, but good job thinking its original to take a step backwards.

[Jakarn]

youve never played rift with every on max then, this game looks crap with everything on full

 

At the moment this game is not set to max for some reason, maybe they are trying to keep it stable, I don't know, medium looks the same as high. If you go fiddle with the ini you can fix that. Have a look at :-

 

http://au.gamespot.com/star-wars-the-old-republic/forum/comprehensive-list-of-swtor-ini-tweaks-keep-bumped-61343050?page=0

 

That explains most of it, or you can wait for the next patch, becuase I'm sure they will put the graphics up than. It is a different style to Rift, with the graphics set to max through the suggestions on that thread it looks a lot like the "Clone Wars" cartoon which I think suits the Star Wars universe more so than the Rift graphics would.

[Sohtaraz]

At the moment this game is not set to max for some reason, maybe they are trying to keep it stable, I don't know, medium looks the same as high. If you go fiddle with the ini you can fix that. Have a look at :-

 

Short answer: Not enough time to put high end textures.

 

Long answer: Rushed release with the cost of development time ending up in some freatures missing (in this case "high" settings) not that unfamiliar in the scene. What is unfamiliar is the graphic enhancements missing but I don't know if that is by design of the games over all field (Bloom etc.).

[Xerodotus]

You'll hear it from me as you've heard from others. The game just launched. Let bioware worry about all the other "goodies" once their foundation has been placed and fixed. Patience is a virtue and continued support will only make the game better.

[KodiacStorm]

I love this guy. He's insulted by a skybox.

[Smokt]

There are a ton of missing features in this game that have nothing to do with WoW. They are inherent in the genre. They should be in an MMO and they are not. Copying some competitor that has these features should be praised. Why go out of your way to reinvent the wheel. Thats a big problem.

 

But the bigger problem is that there are only a few NEW Features - and none of them really have anything to do with making an MMO better, they are all aimed at making a better single player game.

 

 

You want to make a fun MMO, make an awesome economy, RAIDs/Instances and PVP. Everything else might better done on a console or DVD.

[Sohtaraz]

But the bigger problem is that there are only a few NEW Features - and none of them really have anything to do with making an MMO better, they are all aimed at making a better single player game.

 

To be fair the new freatures also make both single and multiplayer experience worst with rewards (Points for NPC's or Social points).

[Smokt]

To be fair the new freatures also make both single and multiplayer experience worst with rewards (Points for NPC's or Social points).

 

Not sure what you are saying "worst?".

Yeah I get the rewards systems but it has little it anything to do with being an MMO.

[Syphrus]

its not old its new. thats your problem.

wow didnt start out with all of its stuff they added it later

[Cleagane]

Everything in this post is such a minor concern it doesnt even matter.

[Sohtaraz]

Not sure what you are saying "worst?".

Yeah I get the rewards systems but it has little it anything to do with being an MMO.

 

1.

bad or ill in the highest, greatest, or most extreme degree: the worst person.

2.

most faulty, unsatisfactory, or objectionable: the worst paper submitted.

3.

most unfavorable or injurious.

4.

in the poorest condition: the worst house on the block.

5.

most unpleasant, unattractive, or disagreeable: the worst personality I've ever known.

 

 

As in experience without said systems compared to its state after implementing. Punishing player for playing in a party is kinda silly and rewarding singleplayer experience in an mmo, as well as giving a nonstatic currency (based upon roll wins) for experience for group activities instead of a steady increase for all in part.

Edit:

Everything in this post is such a minor concern it doesnt even matter.

 

Yeah who would actually want a enjoyable experience, a useful UI. I mean im all for the torture involved in some aspects of the game such as yelling in general or seeing my general chat being full of "LFG/LFM" messages.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Sohtaraz

[Jakarn]

Short answer: Not enough time to put high end textures.

 

Long answer: Rushed release with the cost of development time ending up in some freatures missing (in this case "high" settings) not that unfamiliar in the scene. What is unfamiliar is the graphic enhancements missing but I don't know if that is by design of the games over all field (Bloom etc.).

 

But that is what I'm saying the high end textures are there you just have to play with the ini and turn them on (some of the lines you do have to add but a lot of it is just turned off or turned down, and you can't adjust them in game).

 

I think Bioware was a little hung up on having a stable release, more than being rushed (red zone and staggered entry).

[Oriox]

There are a ton of missing features in this game that have nothing to do with WoW. They are inherent in the genre. They should be in an MMO and they are not. Copying some competitor that has these features should be praised. Why go out of your way to reinvent the wheel. Thats a big problem.

 

But the bigger problem is that there are only a few NEW Features - and none of them really have anything to do with making an MMO better, they are all aimed at making a better single player game.

 

 

You want to make a fun MMO, make an awesome economy, RAIDs/Instances and PVP. Everything else might better done on a console or DVD.

 

Yeah the only people praising this game are the ones that wanted the next KOTOR. There is little here that adds to the MMO genre or even acknowledges the existence of other players.

[livexdevil]

If you want something to cry about go play WoW. This game just came out dont QQ about it troll.

[Sohtaraz]

But that is what I'm saying the high end textures are there you just have to play with the ini and turn them on (some of the lines you do have to add but a lot of it is just turned off or turned down, and you can't adjust them in game).

 

I think Bioware was a little hung up on having a stable release, more than being rushed (red zone and staggered entry).

 

Some of them are in game and they are steadely adding them, but not even remotely all of em are in game so thats why its not enabled most likely. You have to remember theres quite a few high end areas as well that allmost had two weeks of beta time.

 

And yes they were hung on having a stable release, the 'current' high res textures are allmost 3-4 weeks old so are you really that suprised they are being unsure about enabling them for all the crowd? It still comes down to rushing the release and cutting down beta tho.

[Smokt]

Yeah the only people praising this game are the ones that wanted the next KOTOR. There is little here that adds to the MMO genre or even acknowledges the existence of other players.

 

Maybe someday a developed will build a world with ONLY MMO content and just throw out the entire idea of leveling and questing. That would be sick and probably really financially viable.

[Tenneth]

So honestly, I really do want to like this game. And I do think it has some positive features, including Star Wars; I've always like the Star Wars movies. Unfortunately, TOR just feels really old. Even compared to World of Warcraft, which actually is very old (over 7 years now), this feels elderly.

 

The following are some things that make TOR feel old:

 

- No LFG Tool (been in WoW for over 2 years... absolutely baffled as to how this hasn't been developed for TOR yet)

 

- Awful UI; I could make an entire thread about this (and people already have), but for the sake of brevity, I'll just restate that it's awful

 

- Pet AI is horrible, between the delay on commanding their auto attack, their hilarious pathing errors, and many others; it's safe to say giving every Class+Spec a pet was a bad idea, without first giving them AI that's passable in 2011

 

- 2007 graphics (The Skybox being a 2D Painting is particularly insulting)

 

- No Day/Night Cylce

 

- No accessable body of water deeper than 6 inches

 

- Server queues (Had queues in WoW for Vanilla, BC, and Wrath but not Cata, Blizzard has evolved, BioWare has not)

 

- Lackluster Character Creation

 

- Absurd Leveling curve; the overall process of getting from 1-50 is pretty fast, but the curve for time per level increases at a rate that makes me feel like I'm playing Aion again

 

- Three Warzones, No Arenas (also consider Huttball cannot be taken seriously as Rated PvP). Again; TOR is competing with 2011 WoW (8 Battlegrounds, 4 of which can be done Rated + Arena Content)

 

- No Macros

 

- No mouseover casting

 

- No addon support

 

- No Dual Spec

 

- Taris memory leaks (should have been fixed in Beta, not "overnight" a week after Early Access started for the game's release build)

 

- Lack of variety in quests; everything is kill X amount of Y, unlike WoW where they've added a lot of variation (for better or for worse) in the quests, which makes leveling feel less grindy

 

- Voice Actors voicing too many different people; I don't think I've seen this many Characters with the same Voice Actor, since the first Deus Ex game

 

- Player Character repeating Dialogue from other conversations (My Sith Inquisitor has said "I'll show you what a Sith can do!" like 5 times now, and other less memorably rhyming are equally if not more common)

 

- "Choices" are still just the Blue good guy option, or the Red bad guy option — this was kinda new in KOTOR, and still cool in both Mass Effects; but unimpressive today

 

- No Mount until level 25; it only takes a couple hours to get your first Mount in WoW these days. No idea why this was considered a good idea

 

- Awkward gold; having over 500,000 gold by the time you hit 40 is... silly, and will be a major hassle as the game ages and gold inflation occurs

 

- A vast array of technical errors that BioWare, and easily amused Players will chalk up to "Every launch has issues, go play WoW kid!"; but nonetheless detract from gameplay, and are hard to excuse in a 2011 title

 

- No Appearance/Gear Customization such as WoW's Transmogrification, or a standard MMO Appearance Tab (weird in a game where we watch ourselves talk so much)

 

- No Barbershop for minor character recustomization (again, weird in a game where we watch so much of our character speaking)

 

- More — I will expand on this as more things pop into my mind, these are the ones currently at the forefront of my thought process

 

Anyway, do you guys feel the same way? Maybe you don't see the logic in some of my points (but you will once you get to level 40+), but you've probably noticed the game feels old. I'm worried that this feeling will plague the launch, and the early days of the game. This will both turn away new players, and create a jaded community; problems that get worse and worse as time goes on. Hopefully the game can be improved enough though, I do like it.

 

TL;DR, I think TOR feels old, what do you think?

 

What you, and others need to keep in mind is, World of Warcraft did not have all of these features at launch, and some of them are more recent. TOR has had the best launch for an MMO that I've ever seen, and I've witnessed quite a few. While there are some minor issues with bugs and lack of basic mechanics, the things that really matter to the average gamer are already here, or not far down the road.

 

We'll continue to see your list diminish to nothing within the next couple of months, and I'm sure people will be surprised as to how fast development will pick up in the coming weeks after Bioware recovers from this launch.

 

It's always nice to hear everyone's opinion, and I'm sure Bioware will be correcting and implementing overlooked features soon.

[Sohtaraz]

Maybe someday a developed will build a world with ONLY MMO content and just throw out the entire idea of leveling and questing. That would be sick and probably really financially viable.

 

Character improvement based upon openworld activities (morrowindish style, without the excell sheet requirements ofcourse) and quest rewards for ranking? I sense a Bethesda TES MMO drool forming...Add in some Arrow to the Knee and Fus Roh Dah... (Reminds me... I could be playing Skyrim Online with 4 friends...)

[Smokt]

What you, and others need to keep in mind is, World of Warcraft did not have all of these features at launch, and some of them are more recent. TOR has had the best launch for an MMO that I've ever seen, and I've witnessed quite a few. While there are some minor issues with bugs and lack of basic mechanics, the things that really matter to the average gamer are already here, or not far down the road.

 

We'll continue to see your list diminish to nothing within the next couple of months, and I'm sure people will be surprised as to how fast development will pick up in the coming weeks after Bioware recovers from this launch.

 

It's always nice to hear everyone's opinion, and I'm sure Bioware will be correcting and implementing overlooked features soon.

 

Thanks for chiming in. Im glad you are building new features for the AVERAGE gamer. While your at it, can you also build some things for hardcore MMO players?

[Cheska]

you are forgettin this is the launch, this is the foundation for the game so they can build off it in the future. please stop saying it missing this or missing that when its released yesterday! and wow has been out for 7years!!!!

 

 

 

THis, right here says it all, Look at WoW at launch, you wouldnt recognize the game or its mechanics, Same with EQ, or any other MMO to date. Its not even the end of the first week, not to mention its the xmas holiday. So i dont complain, or drone on, I will say this with pretty much everyone else I have glanced over.

 

DOnt like it? Go back to WoW, >_> Troll.

[Smokt]

Character improvement based upon openworld activities (morrowindish style, without the excell sheet requirements ofcourse) and quest rewards for ranking? I sense a Bethesda TES MMO drool forming...Add in some Arrow to the Knee and Fus Roh Dah... (Reminds me... I could be playing Skyrim Online with 4 friends...)

 

Yeah now were talking. Here's the formula:

 

Dark Souls combat for PVP

WoW Raiding

looting of other players

Rift open World instances

Battlefield 3 warzones

and a pinch of Lotro fellowship moves

 

 

 

And just completely dump

questing

leveling

[Sohtaraz]

THis, right here says it all, Look at WoW at launch, you wouldnt recognize the game or its mechanics, Same with EQ, or any other MMO to date. Its not even the end of the first week, not to mention its the xmas holiday. So i dont complain, or drone on, I will say this with pretty much everyone else I have glanced over.

 

DOnt like it? Go back to WoW, >_> Troll.

 

 

Nice trolling there troll. Was it hes idea to release on xmas holidays when people have most free time? If answer is no, I sense a huge flaw in your argument. Oh and wow at launch was difrent then it after 7 years? So I quess every game should be 10/10 becouse they are far better then games 7 years from the past instead of the current games that are out there.

[Sohtaraz]

Yeah now were talking. Here's the formula:

 

Dark Souls combat for PVP

WoW Raiding

looting of other players

Rift open World instances

Battlefield 3 warzones

and a pinch of Lotro fellowship moves

 

 

 

And just completely dump

questing

leveling

 

 

You forgot money/reputation grind and item repair. Let's face it, just get rid of the currency all together and deal with it in tokens for health potions etc that cant be traded.

 

Edit: Actually force all consumables soulbound AND for currency for trade something that is not obtainable by any other way expect player to player trade / crafting that is only enabled for crafting related things. You slap those on for improvements on weapons and you have a consumable system that requires basicly no consumable grind lol.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Sohtaraz