Someone ninja'd the new mount

[SithKoriandr]

I'm on board with that thought. If they can actually make it work in different ways on different servers.

 

For this to work, they then need to enforce RP on RP servers.

[KimbeFett]

I dont think you understand the thread.

 

This isnt about pugs.

 

This is about changing the loot rules during combat which means the group leader can take everything the boss drops.

 

I only join pug groups that are round robin. This group I was in had round robin, thats what the leader said at the start.. What I didnt know was that the group leader was going to change the loot rules just before the end of the fight and take everything the boss drops..

 

Why are you telling me to take responsibility when its clearly BIowares fault for this issue?

 

This "risk" should never be a risk in the first place.

 

I think maybe there should be a "Pug Mode" which locks down the loot rules during combat but in general it actually saved me a few times on guild runs.

 

Typically I was the Raid Leader for my group and I would OFTEN forget to change the loot rules to Master Looter and only remember with like 5-10% left on the first boss.

 

This feature saved me a few times; especially those times when you had 1 pug in the group who could have made off with a lot of loot.

 

That being said; I should fail less as a Raid Leader and just change the loot system before combat; what happened to you was no fault of your own and really is a shame;

[Sindorin]

And you blame BW for that. Try blaming the people without morals and ethics. It's like blaming the fireman that the fire started.

 

So if Bioware made a mechanic that allowed people to turn on godmode, that's not Bioware's fault, but instead the fault of the person? There should be a minimum amount of mechanic design built into a game, that prevents most forms of exploitation or outright theivery.

[Ayelinna]

And this is where you should accept that your opinion is wrong.

 

There is an accepted definition of the word "exploit." A singular truth. It is, or it isn't. There is no subjectivity here.

 

If BW considers something a feature, it isn't an exploit. If ANYONE can do it without "tricking" the game, it is poor design -- not an exploit.

 

Using stealth to get out of combat to change loot rules? Yes -- that would be an exploit. Clearly 100% unintended, and circumventing a restriction. If there is no restriction on changing loot rules -- there can be no exploit.

 

Its my opinion that this is an exploit, i have stated before, so accept the fact I have an opinion that doesnt share yours.

 

And thats your opinion that it isn't an exploit.

 

See we can just go back and forth all day

[KimbeFett]

So if Bioware made a mechanic that allowed people to turn on godmode, that's not Bioware's fault, but instead the fault of the person? There should be a minimum amount of mechanic design built into a game, that prevents most forms of exploitation or outright theivery.

 

Yeah I agree; they should have some protection against it. Either have a game where its Full Loot PVP so you can track down the guy and get your stuff back or make it so you can't steal stuff like this.

 

I wonder what would happen if you opened a ticket about this; probably nothing but it wouldn't hurt;

[SithKoriandr]

I dont think you understand the thread.

 

This isnt about pugs.

 

This is about changing the loot rules during combat which means the group leader can take everything the boss drops.

 

I only join pug groups that are round robin. This group I was in had round robin, thats what the leader said at the start.. What I didnt know was that the group leader was going to change the loot rules just before the end of the fight and take everything the boss drops..

 

Why are you telling me to take responsibility when its clearly BIowares fault for this issue?

 

This "risk" should never be a risk in the first place.

 

Your first mistake was trusting the group leader. Put them on ignore. Never team with them again.

 

But to add to that, it would help if BW made it so when you put someone on ignore, it ignored the account (which I don't think they've made possible yet).

[Ayelinna]

Your first mistake was trusting the group leader. Put them on ignore. Never team with them again.

 

But to add to that, it would help if BW made it so when you put someone on ignore, it ignored the account (which I don't think they've made possible yet).

 

That wasn't a mistake.

 

The group leader advertised that the ops would have a round robin loot rule.

 

The group leader then changed the loot rules mid fight... i didn't know you were allowed to do this. I guess its my fault for not knowing people can ninja the gear by changing loot rules mid fight?

[Asavrede]

Yeah i'm blaming Bioware for letting the people without morals and ethics get away with it.

 

There is no such thing as a douche-proof system. Get over it. Add them to your ignore list. Warn others.

 

Only players can make other players regret being douchebags.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Asavrede

[Vandicus]

Your first mistake was trusting the group leader. Put them on ignore. Never team with them again.

 

But to add to that, it would help if BW made it so when you put someone on ignore, it ignored the account (which I don't think they've made possible yet).

 

This here I think is the best way to deal with the problem. Community enforcement of rules like no ninja looting(since it seems Bioware isn't interested in a heavy involvement hands on approach) would be our optimal solution, but its difficult to implement so long as people can simply switch the loot to another character(keeping their main off ignore lists). This way the community can effectively blacklist a player, rather than a single character, and protect themselves better.

[Kilora]

Its my opinion that this is an exploit, i have stated before, so accept the fact I have an opinion that doesnt share yours.

 

And thats your opinion that it isn't an exploit.

 

See we can just go back and forth all day

 

And if you could read, you'd realize that you are welcome to have an opinion -- but that doesn't change facts.

 

Fact is, you are wrong. End of story. Facts are not subjective.

 

You can be of the opinion that 2+2 does not equal 4 -- but that doesn't make you right, it just makes you look like someone who lacks understanding.

[AlienEyeTX]

Yeah I agree; they should have some protection against it. Either have a game where its Full Loot PVP so you can track down the guy and get your stuff back or make it so you can't steal stuff like this.

 

I wonder what would happen if you opened a ticket about this; probably nothing but it wouldn't hurt;

 

They could make it so that any time loot rules are changed, everyone in group has to ok it before the change takes effect. Or make it a vote.

 

***Edit*** But I'm still ok with it if they don't change it. I think people should be responsible for their own actions and sometimes that involves risk.

Edited July 23, 2013 by AlienEyeTX

[SithKoriandr]

Its my opinion that this is an exploit, i have stated before, so accept the fact I have an opinion that doesnt share yours.

 

And thats your opinion that it isn't an exploit.

 

See we can just go back and forth all day

 

In this case, you having an opinion on it being an exploit doesn't make it valid or right. Or even that it's a matter of opinion. Just that you don't like how something was implemented into the game.

 

It'd be more right to say "In my opinion, this is terrible game design." What is or isn't an exploit is definable and not really a matter of opinion.

 

Exploits get fixed. This has been around since day 1. BW has been willing to ban people for exploits. BW hasn't banned anyone from changing loot options.

 

Everything points to this not being an exploit, but rather, poor form on the group leaders part.

 

In fact, in the terms of service, there is nothing that says "Don't change loot options when you are on last boss." It's more of a commonly held belief by the player base (this player included) that it's just rude to do.

[chuuuuucky]

So well i agree that to some point you have to blame the ones that take advantage of it. But everybody who says that it is the fault of those who join pugs seem to be totally out of their mind.

How can it be the responsibility of someone who can't step in the whole process of changing to loot master?

You can try to make the whole group fail and force them to turn it back. But if they do it 2 or 3% before the fight ends this is very unlikely to happen.

And even if you blame the person who did this it should be clear that Bioware should take action. It is against the logic of Bioware to allow this as they try to build a safe environment you can play PvE in. No PvP players entering your instances and different loot options to prevent exactly what happend.

[Hockaday]

Its my opinion that this is an exploit, i have stated before, so accept the fact I have an opinion that doesnt share yours.

 

And thats your opinion that it isn't an exploit.

 

See we can just go back and forth all day

 

The problem is, you think facts are opinions. If you want to debate whether this was right or wrong, that's opinion. Debating that this is an exploit on the other hand, is not a debate, but an exercise in stupidity. He is correct. The guy who changed loot, did not break game mechanics or find an unintentional loophole, to do what he did. If he had, that would have been an exploit.

[Andryah]

I wonder what would happen if you opened a ticket about this; probably nothing but it wouldn't hurt;

 

The proper approach IS to /bug_report it, give other players in the forum a heads up..and then move on. It may be an unintended result of something in the patch content. It could be we are being spoofed here.

 

The fact that the thread is being nursed along in regular modis-operndi should at least raise an eyebrow and a credible confirmation by other players. The source is far from unimpeachable here.. so the proper course of action by the forum membership is to independently confirm.

 

If it is in fact possible to reset loot rules during an encounter, it should be addressed by Bioware. However, it's not the end of the world, and the sky is not falling, and unless the loot master is a jackwagon, it would not even happen regardless of if the mechanics permit it. Prudent players don't group with jackwagons.. and if you group with unknown players.. you are always at risk of meeting Mr. Jackwagon and no MMO company is able to protect you 7/24.

 

Close a confirmed loop_hole?... absolutely. Have a forum drama series about it?.... weak sauce, even on a slow news Tuesday.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Andryah

[Hockaday]

So well i agree that to some point you have to blame the ones that take advantage of it. But everybody who says that it is the fault of those who join pugs seem to be totally out of their mind.

How can it be the responsibility of someone who can't step in the whole process of changing to loot master?

You can try to make the whole group fail and force them to turn it back. But if they do it 2 or 3% before the fight ends this is very unlikely to happen.

And even if you blame the person who did this it should be clear that Bioware should take action. It is against the logic of Bioware to allow this as they try to build a safe environment you can play PvE in. No PvP players entering your instances and different loot options to prevent exactly what happend.

 

You know the risks of pugs. It's your choice to participate. Just like any other dangerous activity, if you know the risks, and decide to do it anyway; it's your fault.

[Ayelinna]

And if you could read, you'd realize that you are welcome to have an opinion -- but that doesn't change facts.

 

Fact is, you are wrong. End of story. Facts are not subjective.

 

You can be of the opinion that 2+2 does not equal 4 -- but that doesn't make you right, it just makes you look like someone who lacks understanding.

 

Actually, YOU are wrong...in my opinion. And its just your opinion that i'm wrong. You havent told me any facts actually.

 

This person was exploiting other players, by taking their time and resources in order to benefit themselves, they did this by changing the loot rules mid fight. Hence this is an exploit.

[Ayelinna]

The problem is, you think facts are opinions. If you want to debate whether this was right or wrong, that's opinion. Debating that this is an exploit on the other hand, is not a debate, but an exercise in stupidity. He is correct. The guy who changed loot, did not break game mechanics or find an unintentional loophole, to do what he did. If he had, that would have been an exploit.

 

Well, thats your opinion.

[SithKoriandr]

That wasn't a mistake.

 

The group leader advertised that the ops would have a round robin loot rule.

 

The group leader then changed the loot rules mid fight... i didn't know you were allowed to do this. I guess its my fault for not knowing people can ninja the gear by changing loot rules mid fight?

 

Yup.

 

I didn't know you weren't allowed to right turn into the far lane. I got pulled over for it. Is it my fault for not knowing that rule of the road?

 

I live in the US, where it's legal to turn right on a red light. This isn't legal in some other countries. If I do it in another country, I just broke the law. Is it my fault I didn't know this law? Yes.

 

Same thing. You didn't know. Now you do. Next time you'll think twice before trusting another player, or put them on ignore and move on.

[Callaron]

Yeah i'm blaming Bioware for letting the people without morals and ethics get away with it.

 

Makes me wish that the old bug was still around.

Change to Master Looter in the middle of combat and no one gets loot.

I despise people like that.

[AlienEyeTX]

It could be we are being spoofed here.

 

I'm not going to come right out and say that this was the first thought that crossed my mind when reading the post. I will, however, note that I found it interesting that this thread popped up shortly after this very situation was mentioned (hypothetically) in another thread.

 

[Tachenko_Yuri]

See we can just go back and forth all day

 

aaah for the love of god ppl this person's trolling just for sake of it.. just leave her be D:

[ninjonxb]

This thread is going in circles and going absolutely no where and I would not be suprised to see it locked soon.

 

The same people are just calling each other out for having "wrong" opinions.

[Kilora]

Actually, YOU are wrong...in my opinion. And its just your opinion that i'm wrong. You havent told me any facts actually.

 

This person was exploiting other players, by taking their time and resources in order to benefit themselves, they did this by changing the loot rules mid fight. Hence this is an exploit.

 

You need to learn what the term exploit means.

 

The person was TECHNICALLY exploiting other players, yes. However, this is NOT an exploit. Please read.

 

Exploitation of people =\= exploitation of a game. BW purposely uses the term "exploit" rarely -- because it is literally meant to be ONLY:

 

a piece of software, a chunk of data, or sequence of commands that takes advantage of a bug, glitch or vulnerability in order to cause unintended or unanticipated behaviour to occur on computer software

[Ayelinna]

This thread is going in circles and going absolutely no where and I would not be suprised to see it locked soon.

 

The same people are just calling each other out for having "wrong" opinions.

 

I know lol its ridiculous these people cant accept the fact I have an opinion that they don't share